auldreekie Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 David, I shall look forward to that. Meanwhile, back at this ranch, progress appears to have slowed a bit. It's really quite tricky making sense of even my own drawing when it comes to breaking down the machine-room into a workable set of components then putting them together. It has taken me all day to fettle and fix the two "internal dividers", then to cut to size, overlay, fettle and fit (at about the third attempt) the outer panel for one of the six projections. And, even although I've now established the pattern of work for the other five projections, things may move even more slowly for a bit, as all "outer" panels remaining plus both main sides of the machine-room involve doors and windows, for which I hope to use etched items currently in the post. And, of course, painting and bedding-in doors and windows is of itself a multi-stage procedure. I may just have to chamfer and hack the jigger-platform..... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 A bit of progress. More steps forward than backwards. I think. - Four more panels cut out, overlaid, glued in place and fettled for the machine-room. (The side pieces for the "ears" from which the counterbalance-weights for the lift component of the tippler will be suspended.) - The jigger-platform has now had its business edge chamfered and hacked-out to receive the jigger-housings. Neither of these sub-assemblies is yet fixed in place, but each further phase of activity results in a little more fettling of them, so that by now they are getting to be a comfortable fit. - Likewise, internally I have added small filler-pieces between the edges of the upper hopper and the external cladding of the tower. Invisible in this photograph, but it also reflects a small step towards another of the several subassemblies being ready to be incorporated into the whole. The bad news is that my intended source of very near-correct windows has dried up, so slowing progress even more, as well as obliging me to make do with something a little further (by a couple of millimetres) from the real-world configuration. Just as well I didn't prepare the necessary four panels in expectation....... On the other hand, I think I've cracked the two-rail handrail requirement by aiming to use some (relatively) cheap model boat components. I'm coming round to the view that the Walthers Cornerstone modern fire-escape kit may provide me with an affordable means of faking up the stairways with their associated one-rail handrails. Next up looks like being starting to get to grips with the tippler rails and The Beam.... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Good Evening All I am now working on the Large Water Tank that was situated next the the coaling tower at Haymarket MPD. I have plenty of photos of the water tower in fact more than enough to help me make up a 4mm scale model, but I have no idea whet goes on with regards to the water tank roof covering I enclose a photo below, from what I can see it looks like the covering is of a corrugated type of material, possibly asbestos. On both sides centrally there is a break in the fascia boards with an access ladder going up one side obvoiusly for maintenance purposes, but I have no idea what the roof covering looks like from a birds eye point of view, does it cover the entire roof area or is there a break in the roof covering for access to the water. Has anyone got any ideas on how it's constructed or any suggestion that may help before I just guess what it looks like? Regards David Edited March 16, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyrood 60152 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hi David, Just a suggestion . . . but have you considered posting some of your questions on the LNER forum? I rummage around that forum quite a lot and there seems to be a fair few members there who appear to have been railwaymen in the days of steam. Their collective information could be quite helpful and invaluable. There are several sub sections including a 'Model Railways' section and another one I visit regularly -- "LNER Locomotives and Rolling Stock". Here's the link: http://www.lner.info/forums/index.php?sid=f048957f37d4efc2fa70a3315c5dc55f Regards, Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Hi David, Just a suggestion . . . but have you considered posting some of your questions on the LNER forum? I rummage around that forum quite a lot and there seems to be a fair few members there who appear to have been railwaymen in the days of steam. Their collective information could be quite helpful and invaluable. There are several sub sections including a 'Model Railways' section and another one I visit regularly -- "LNER Locomotives and Rolling Stock". Here's the link: http://www.lner.info/forums/index.php?sid=f048957f37d4efc2fa70a3315c5dc55f Regards, Jim. Hi Jim I do use the LNER Forum and thats a great idea you have come up with. I have put the same message on the Model Railways section with the same photo, but not sure if I added the photo correctly as for some reason I cannot see it. Regards David Edited March 16, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 No picture on LNER Forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 No picture on LNER Forum. Hi micklner I know i just had a look myself, trouble is I have tried but just do not know how to add the photo on the LNER forum. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 use the image editor on here download from computer option file open image then click on your picture then click image resize to about 1240 wide click ok File goto save save into your documents/ LNER forum Click reply go to bottom of page click on attachments click on your saved photo, press ok it will then download and photo file appear at underneath the bottom of reply box... place cursor in reply box and then clicked post image at bottom of box and post Hopefully that makes sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 use the image editor on here download from computer option file open image then click on your picture then click image resize to about 1240 wide click ok File goto save save into your documents/ LNER forum Click reply go to bottom of page click on attachments click on your saved photo, press ok it will then download and photo file appear at underneath the bottom of reply box... place cursor in reply box and then clicked post image at bottom of box and post Hopefully that makes sense Thanks micklner it does make sense, the original problem was that the photo was to big to download, I did not realise that the images had to be no more than 500KB in size. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) David, That is a particularly good shot of the water tower, because it sorts out what usually appears as a forest of legs. So there are only five sets, each of two. It's less of a chore than I imagined it would be.... auldreekie Edited March 17, 2015 by auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) David, That is a particularly good shot of the water tower, because it sorts out what usually appears as a forest of legs. So there are only five sets, each of two. It's less of a chore than I imagined it would be.... auldreekie Hi auldreekie I do have other more detailed photos of the water tank, there is avery good photo in Harry Knox's first book on Haymarket. The main tank seems to be supported on two sets of four vertical steel H section beams tied together with which looks like angle iron sections and cross braces. There also seems to be two large circular columns centrally situated under the water tank as proberbly the main support. I will see if I can get Harry's concent to scan the photo and put it on this thread. Regards David Edited March 17, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Water tank and coal loader marginally in these views: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=29663 http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=36665 From: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/locationnew.php?photographer=&loc=Haymarket%20MPD&offset=0 which I'm sure you've seen before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Water tank and coal loader marginally in these views: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=29663 http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=36665 From: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/locationnew.php?photographer=&loc=Haymarket%20MPD&offset=0 which I'm sure you've seen before. Hi 26power Many thanks for the photos and taking the time to post them. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) David, No need to scan for me: I already have Harry Knox's book (as one might expect). I've just never got so far in consideration of the water tower as to identify which pictures seriously clarify the underpinnings. As you have yourself discovered, the water tower tends not to be the first priority which comes to mind as a construction project. Out of curiosity, I'm just off to give Mr Knox's two books some attention as sources of information on that particular subject. Mainly because I'm coming towards a likely pause in operations on the coaling tower whilst awaiting ready-made windows, stairways, stanchions and I-section girder for cannibalisation. I've been considering, and working on, the tippler-side aspect, but there's not a huge amount to show as yet. The Beam does have a very peculiar cross-section, circular in places, flat-faced in others: it took me a little time and effort to work out how to represent this and to do so in practice. I am now almost persuaded that The Beam's supports must have pivoted at about the mid-point of the concrete frame which is level with the top of the upper hopper, the pivot roughly coinciding with a dog-leg in each of the supporting "goalposts", and the lower end on each side of the dog-legged post having attached to it a decent-sized counterbalance weight. If anyone knows different, please shout now, as I am about to embark on a representation of something of this sort. The other challenge in modelling this side of the structure is representing the rest of what is to be seen within the chasm . I suspect that my version of the upper hopper is simplistic, but at least it is functionally plausible.... As to the back of the chasm, the door needs to be represented giving access to the winch for the two-way flap at the exit of the reception-hopper. Well. That's now done but, for plausibility, it entailed a representation of the inner aspect of the concrete frame and of the panelled infill for the upper part of the jigger side of the structure. For what it's worth, here's the present state-of-play. - The main two front panels are merely propped in position as yet, to give a general impression. - Same with the main wall of the machine-room, which has yet to be panelled and to be pierced to represent the double doors (which I assume are for use in loading chunks of kit in and out of the machine-room) . - There is as yet no representation of the (cantilevered?) balcony and winch for the two-way flap. - The Beam is as yet lying on the ground, waiting to be trimmed to length and attached to a mechanism of sorts along lines suggested above. auldreekie Edited March 18, 2015 by auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 David, Water tank I'm just looking at the pictures on pages 51 and 56 of Knox's blue-covered book. There are FIVE sets of H-section columns. I assume that the fat circular-columnar thingies are pipes to do with water outgoing to the various water-columns dotted around the depot, rather than supports. And the main body of the roofing looks to be corrugated something (iron or asbestos?) with the corrugations running at right-angles to the rail tracks. At the top of the access ladder, there seems to be a gap in the roofing, which might have an access-hatch sliding on small-section I-beams. I'm puzzled by the barge-board-like frill which runs right round the top edges: might it be a way for fixing the corrugated roof relatively securely to the remainder? It's odd that there also appears to be no indicator of how full/empty the tank is. I claim no specialist knowledge of this! auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 David, Water tank I'm just looking at the pictures on pages 51 and 56 of Knox's blue-covered book. There are FIVE sets of H-section columns. I assume that the fat circular-columnar thingies are pipes to do with water outgoing to the various water-columns dotted around the depot, rather than supports. And the main body of the roofing looks to be corrugated something (iron or asbestos?) with the corrugations running at right-angles to the rail tracks. At the top of the access ladder, there seems to be a gap in the roofing, which might have an access-hatch sliding on small-section I-beams. I'm puzzled by the barge-board-like frill which runs right round the top edges: might it be a way for fixing the corrugated roof relatively securely to the remainder? It's odd that there also appears to be no indicator of how full/empty the tank is. I claim no specialist knowledge of this! auldreekie Hi auldreekie I stand corrected you a absolutely right there are five sets of H section columns, I am still sure there are either two or four additional circular columns for extra support. Those five sets of H columns look far to flimsy to support the entire water tank and its contents on their own. Your coal tower is looking superb as well. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAYMARKET-SCOTLAND-6-3-1952-LOCO-62437-/201297512172? Might be of interest re watertank? Looks the five sets of legs support two longitudinal beams, which in turn support transverse beams at each panel joint. I would guess the round(?) parts are a pipe for filling and a pipe to supply water cranes. Regards, 26power Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAYMARKET-SCOTLAND-6-3-1952-LOCO-62437-/201297512172? Might be of interest re watertank? Looks the five sets of legs support two longitudinal beams, which in turn support transverse beams at each panel joint. I would guess the round(?) parts are a pipe for filling and a pipe to supply water cranes. Regards, 26power Hi 26power Thank you for the link to the photo, I fully agree with your accessment of the water tank support structure, but I am still not sure about those two circular columns. I know from photos there are two water pipes one at each end that come out from the water tank side panel and run down the structure to I assume ground level, these must supply water to the various water columns situated around the shed. But on some photos I have and I do have quite a few photos of The Haymarket Water Tank they look to large just to be water supply pipes and I wonder if they are two addition support columns, but I am still not sure at the moment. Regards David Edited March 24, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Just realised the picture I linked to is the one further up the thread. Perhaps the circular columns include for lagging? Or perhaps there are multiple pipes? As a Civil Engineer, but not a Structural Engineer, the arrangement I described seems logical to support the tank. The other factor is the bracing between all the supports. Regards, Hi 26powerThank you for the link to the photo, I fully agree with your accessment of the water tank support structure, but I am still not sure about those two circular columns.I know from photos there are two water pipes one at each end that come out from the water tank side panel and run down the structure to I assume ground level, these must supply water to the various water columns situated around the shed.But on some photos I have and I do have quite a few photos of The Haymarket Water Tank they look to large just to be water supply pipes and I wonder if they are two addition support columns, but I am still not sure at the moment.RegardsDavid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RB-Railway-Image-61928-Haymarket-/111631236930? Close up of the bracing here. Just realised the picture I linked to is the one further up the thread. Perhaps the circular columns include for lagging? Or perhaps there are multiple pipes? As a Civil Engineer, but not a Structural Engineer, the arrangement I described seems logical to support the tank. The other factor is the bracing between all the supports. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RB-Railway-Image-61928-Haymarket-/111631236930? Close up of the bracing here. Hi 26power Again thank you for the photo link. I have been working on the water tank and have nearly finished the main tanks and upper support structure, next job is to make up the support H beams and all of the cross bracing that goes with it. When the whole structure is completed it will then be weathered as I have some very good colour photos of Haymarket's water tank taken in the 1950's. A few photos enclosed of progress so far, the corrugated roof I have had to guess how it's laid out as I have no photos or details so I have left an access section next to where the main ladder will be located as and when that is made ad fixed on. I have also enclosed a colour photo of the tank when the MPD was still in operation. Regards David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I like the model. Any chance of your giving us the low-down on how you made the tank and are modelling the supports and bracing? Silence on my version of the coaling tower, since I've had to reschedule my activities a bit...i auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Hi auldreekie The main water tank was first made out of 1.5mm thick white card, I then applied 1.0mm thick plastic sheet to the outside to thicken it up and give a better external finish. The outer panels, all 80 of them scales down to 13mm x 13mm , as they had to all be exactly the same size being so close together I got York ModelMaking Ltd to laser cut them for me, they were then carefully positioned glued in place. All the H beams below are in plastic, they were glued to the underside of the tank lining up with the gaps between the tank wall panels. The roof is made from Wills asbestos corrugated panels. The main support will be 10 evergreen 4mm x 4mm H sections, all the cross bracing will be in 2mm x 2mm brass angle which will be set out and glued to the plastic H support beams There are also square plates were the cross braces meet, these I will again order from York ModelMaking once I work out what size I need. The only part I did not include was the rivets around each of the 80 panels, I gave up even tying to work out how I would apply these and where I would get them from? I hope the above gives an idea on how it was made, all scaling and overall dimensions were taken from photos I had plus the dimension you kindly gave me from your coal tower. Regards David Edited March 27, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 David, Thank you very much for that. It all sounds very straightforward except the crafty recourse to York Modelmaking! I've been pondering those panels, since some pictures suggest that they may be indented in a manner giving slight diagonal folds in the metal of the piece which stands slightly proud (scarcely "folds", but I cannot think of a better way of describing them). Suggests pressed steel(?) panels, rather than the cast-iron ridged ones which might have been employed at an earlier date? auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 David, Thank you very much for that. It all sounds very straightforward except the crafty recourse to York Modelmaking! I've been pondering those panels, since some pictures suggest that they may be indented in a manner giving slight diagonal folds in the metal of the piece which stands slightly proud (scarcely "folds", but I cannot think of a better way of describing them). Suggests pressed steel(?) panels, rather than the cast-iron ridged ones which might have been employed at an earlier date? auldreekie Hi auldreekie What you have done on your coaling tower is excellent work as you have scratch built it from nothing and it looks very good indeed, but I would thoroughly recommend York ModelMaking to you if there are any parts or details that you feel you may have a problem in fabricating. I had this issue with the steel panels on the tank sides, to produce 80 all exactly the same size was in my opinion outside of my modelling skills and the time it would take had to be taken into consideration. It's amazing what they can make for you and at reasonable costs as well. Look forward to when you restart your project. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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