auldreekie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 If you do build this one, I shall be very interested to learn from your progress. I've never yet dared essay a soldered brass/ nickel-silver locomotive, and 52F promises some NBR delights.... auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 If you do build this one, I shall be very interested to learn from your progress. I've never yet dared essay a soldered brass/ nickel-silver locomotive, and 52F promises some NBR delights.... auldreekie Hi auldreekie I would very much like to have a go at making aJ83 as a side project to Haymarket just for some variety in modelling. I will proberbly stir up a hornets nest now but if I do build a J83 I have never ever picked up a soldering iron in my life and the thought does make me feel very uneasy. I have spoken to a friend who does build model locomotives and I was thinking of using a special glue called Hafixs. It is classified as a super glue but it's properties are different. And he said there is no rasoN why it could not be used to make up a white metal or brass kit. It was an industrial glue from Germany but know sold in the domestic market under a special licence. It glues just about every material you can think of I have used it many times and it's never failed yet. It only starts to work when you press the two objects you are glueing together for about five seconds, it's fantastic at glueing fingers together as well I can say that from my own experience. I accidentally got a small amount on my thumb and touched my finger and there you go 20 minutes with my hand in warm soapy water to release them. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hmmm. Soldering might be the easier option! But a locomotive kit is scarcely the place to start. The Gem/ Lytchett whitemetal kit could be assembled perfectly well and robustly with Devcon five-minute two-part epoxy (I have one I made about 30 years ago -- never any trouble). But it's nothing like as fine a kit as the 52F job promises to be (although decent results can be obtained, and the extra weight certainly adds to its haulage abilities....). auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hi. Mastering soldering seems the easier route! You could start with something far simpler - a wagon kit, or even just some bits of brass. Or a Comet Models coach might be a start? http://www.cometmodels.co.uk There are demonstrators at many exhibitions who would I'm sure give you an understanding of what's involved. Or perhaps a local club? Or maybe at a local meeting of a scale society? Peter Stanger of 52F demonstrated soldering at a recent meeting of the North-east and Borders EM group which was very helpful (I realise not local to you). Probably helps if you are a member, but no requirement to actually build in that scale. I'm sure you would be able to attend as a prospective member, if there is a suitable group near you. (The EM Society may also be a useful source for track building tools). Or perhaps somewhere like here: http://www.missendenrailwaymodellers.org.uk/index.html From what I've seen of the 52F models kits at above meets, and the instructions, a lot of thought has gone into aiding construction and ensuring fit of parts. I haven't actually built any of them, but the openness of the proprietor suggests a willingness to produce a quality product. Hope this is of some assistance. Hi auldreekieI would very much like to have a go at making aJ83 as a side project to Haymarket just for some variety in modelling.I will proberbly stir up a hornets nest now but if I do build a J83 I have never ever picked up a soldering iron in my life and the thought does make me feel very uneasy.I have spoken to a friend who does build model locomotives and I was thinking of using a special glue called Hafixs.It is classified as a super glue but it's properties are different. And he said there is no rasoN why it could not be used to make up a white metal or brass kit.It was an industrial glue from Germany but know sold in the domestic market under a special licence.It glues just about every material you can think of I have used it many times and it's never failed yet.It only starts to work when you press the two objects you are glueing together for about five seconds, it's fantastic at glueing fingers together as well I can say that from my own experience.I accidentally got a small amount on my thumb and touched my finger and there you go 20 minutes with my hand in warm soapy water to release them.RegardsDavid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted October 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2015 David, It would be advisable to try out the soldering first rather than the super glue. The reason being that by tacking a couple of whitemetal castings together it affords you the chance to check for squareness etc. Should it require a slight, or not so slight, adjustment you will be able to take it apart by using the soldering iron on the small area(s) already soldered. However if it is super glued and it is not bang on then that is real trouble! Check E-Bay or one of the auction sites for a cheap whitemetal kit, sometimes they are partially built and not too good either, but that is reflected in the low price. Practice on that and you will soon get the hang of it. Dip your toe in the water (or should that be whitemetal flux?) and there will be no stopping you! Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 David, It would be advisable to try out the soldering first rather than the super glue. The reason being that by tacking a couple of whitemetal castings together it affords you the chance to check for squareness etc. Should it require a slight, or not so slight, adjustment you will be able to take it apart by using the soldering iron on the small area(s) already soldered. However if it is super glued and it is not bang on then that is real trouble! Check E-Bay or one of the auction sites for a cheap whitemetal kit, sometimes they are partially built and not too good either, but that is reflected in the low price. Practice on that and you will soon get the hang of it. Dip your toe in the water (or should that be whitemetal flux?) and there will be no stopping you! Eric Hi Eric Many thanks for your reply and to the other replies as well, it seems that the general agreement is to go down go down the soldering route. I think I will need to do a little bit of research into the Art or should I say in my case the Dark Art of Soldering. As you have all said it's just a case of giving it a go and then lots of practise, at one time I would never had thought I could have made up the Haymarket buildings but they are here now and I have thoroughly enjoyed making them as well. Any chance in the near future of some more of your brilliant photos of Longdrem & Pinkhill. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted October 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2015 David, The book below would be well worth purchasing. I am sure that it is still available from Brewsters. I put more layout photos on a couple of weeks ago. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) David, The book below would be well worth purchasing. I am sure that it is still available from Brewsters. I put more layout photos on a couple of weeks ago. IMG_1582.JPG Eric Hi Eric Thanks for this tip on the Soldering Book, just found it on Amazon, £1.03, plus £2.80 PP sound like a bargain. Regards David Edited October 17, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Good Morning All I enclose a photo of a basic Hornby J83 Class, I have added a bit more detail and weathered it but is still remains a very basic model with moulded handrails. I have thought about trying to remove and fit brass handrails but to be honest I am not sure I have the skills to carry out this small job. I do not have a problem fitting the handrails it's the removing the plastic moulded handrails and making a good job of it is my problem Photo below. My question is does anyone know if you can buy a J83 in a white metal/Brass kit and if so who makes it. Regards David David I think you are too modest in assessing your own skills as I am sure considering what you have built so far carving off plastic handrails and drilling out and fitting new ones will be nothing..its all about going slowly and a bitty at a time which I am sure is what you do with your buildings. Carve off the handrail with a sharp craft knife..nit all at once but 'shave 'it off then use a fine wet and dry to smooth the boiler then drill the appropriate holes and glue in handrail knobs and thread the rail through..you will probably have it done in an hour! Don't worry if the new rails don't look too true..the real ones after 50 years didn't either as many pics will testify to and after weathering any slips with the knife on the boiler will be gone. I admire your enthusiasm in having a go at a whitemetal kit with a soldering iron for a first project..I would be worried that if it doesn't work out well and it might not!..it may put you off for ever. What I would say though is if you can afford to do so invest in a decent temperature controlled iron as having the right iron will make such a difference and hopefully give your confidence a boost. Whitemetal has a very low melting point and an uncontrolled iron if not used skilfully will melt and distort the castings. I'm sure many on here will say they use a standard iron and have no problems etc but these are probably guys that could solder a kit together in their sleep. I am no stranger to soldering but I would not be without my temp controlled iron as apart from allowing soldering low melt with confidence it can also generate a very high tip temp..447deg.. on a very compact iron allowing work in tight spaces. The two things apart from the iron are the solder and the flux. Also basic preparation in that both surfaces are clean and free from any contamination. Use low melt solder..and set the iron below the melt point of the whitemetal but well above the solder melt and with a good flux applied with a paintbrush down the seam then when you touch the loaded iron to same it will run the liquid solder down the joint. Don't worry if its a bit lumpy as you can smooth it out with the iron or even separate and clean up and try again but main thing is the casting shouldn't be damaged. I bought mine in Maplins many years ago and it was three figures but they have come well down in price since then so give it some thought it really is a must. Good luck and keep us posted. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Just caught up after a long session of focusing on Waverley East - lovelies brownstones by AuldReekie - just what I need as a backdrop for the shed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 David I think you are too modest in assessing your own skills as I am sure considering what you have built so far carving off plastic handrails and drilling out and fitting new ones will be nothing..its all about going slowly and a bitty at a time which I am sure is what you do with your buildings. Carve off the handrail with a sharp craft knife..nit all at once but 'shave 'it off then use a fine wet and dry to smooth the boiler then drill the appropriate holes and glue in handrail knobs and thread the rail through..you will probably have it done in an hour! Don't worry if the new rails don't look too true..the real ones after 50 years didn't either as many pics will testify to and after weathering any slips with the knife on the boiler will be gone. I admire your enthusiasm in having a go at a whitemetal kit with a soldering iron for a first project..I would be worried that if it doesn't work out well and it might not!..it may put you off for ever. What I would say though is if you can afford to do so invest in a decent temperature controlled iron as having the right iron will make such a difference and hopefully give your confidence a boost. Whitemetal has a very low melting point and an uncontrolled iron if not used skilfully will melt and distort the castings. I'm sure many on here will say they use a standard iron and have no problems etc but these are probably guys that could solder a kit together in their sleep. I am no stranger to soldering but I would not be without my temp controlled iron as apart from allowing soldering low melt with confidence it can also generate a very high tip temp..447deg.. on a very compact iron allowing work in tight spaces. The two things apart from the iron are the solder and the flux. Also basic preparation in that both surfaces are clean and free from any contamination. Use low melt solder..and set the iron below the melt point of the whitemetal but well above the solder melt and with a good flux applied with a paintbrush down the seam then when you touch the loaded iron to same it will run the liquid solder down the joint. Don't worry if its a bit lumpy as you can smooth it out with the iron or even separate and clean up and try again but main thing is the casting shouldn't be damaged. I bought mine in Maplins many years ago and it was three figures but they have come well down in price since then so give it some thought it really is a must. Good luck and keep us posted. Dave. Many thanks Dave You make it sound very easy which I am sure it is not, I have just ordered the book that Eric recommended to me and I will have a good read of it before progressing any further or purchasing a soldering iron. I will also take on board the useful points you have said in your message above. I am a big fan of RTR locomotives as their quality is so good now but if you want more detail and realism on certain locomotives or a class that is not available in RTR then kit build is the only way forward I realise now no matter how much I shy from it. Also it will be nice to have a second small project on the go, something that I can experiment with and take all the time I need as well. Best Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auldreekie Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 As I understand it, the 52F model is largely brass/nickel silver, and so would really need to be soldered, I think (not that I have any experience of it). If you, like me, are wary of your ability to solder up a locomotive kit , then the GEM/Lycett model (whilst less precise and detailed) is a whitemetal job and can perfectly well be glued with 5-minute epoxy resin. There are pros and cons both ways. I don't doubt the "present-day technology" 52F kit is capable of giving a better-looking result. But the GEM/Lycett kit can be the basis of a respectable model, and it has lots of weight to give it haulage ability. auldreekie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 As I understand it, the 52F model is largely brass/nickel silver, and so would really need to be soldered, I think (not that I have any experience of it). If you, like me, are wary of your ability to solder up a locomotive kit , then the GEM/Lycett model (whilst less precise and detailed) is a whitemetal job and can perfectly well be glued with 5-minute epoxy resin. There are pros and cons both ways. I don't doubt the "present-day technology" 52F kit is capable of giving a better-looking result. But the GEM/Lycett kit can be the basis of a respectable model, and it has lots of weight to give it haulage ability. auldreekie Hi auldreekie I am going to look at both J83 kits, I may see if I can obtain a copy of the instruction sheets in advance if they will send then to me. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Good Evening All This evening I was trying to get to grips with new settings and diferent ways to photo model Railway layouts using my Canon G1X. At the present time I have most of my Haymarket building I have made so far on a worktop waiting for the baseboards to arrive so I was using them to test the camera's settings. I produced this photo which I think gives an idea of what part of the layout may start to look like, obviously minus any track at the present time. I was pleasantly surprised to see that it is actually starting to look a little bit like how Haymarket use to in steam days having studied so many photos of the MPD over the past few years. Also the brass fascia's and gutters in the way of 3.0 mm x 1.0 mm brass flat section and 3.0 mm x 1.5 mm brass hollow half round sections from Eileen's Emporium arrived today these will be fixed together then painted and positioned at each end of the main running shed building. More updated photos to follow once they are in place, please excuse the shiny ash worktop finish black card would have looked better. Regards David Edited October 20, 2015 by landscapes 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Good Morning All I have now made up the two main gutters for the shed building from brass sections. These have been sprayed with an under coat ready for a top coat of paint. As a point of interest the small clamps in the enclosed photos are two inches high and from my point of view are the bargain of this year. I saw them in. Chines mini market in Spain, 80 cents which is approx 60 pence for a pack of six. They are great for clamping and holding small objects while you paint them, they also stand upright on a flat surface so no hands required. Regards David Edited October 21, 2015 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Got some from a local French DIY shed, €1 for four. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hi JeffP I have found them to be so useful in many ways, they were great for holding Smith's tender loco fire irons in place while I painted them. My Sister lives in Spain so she has just posted two more packers to me. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Good Morning All Just had an hour before the family come over this morning so I took the opportunity to fix the new facia's and gutters to the East and West elevations of the main shed building. These were made up from brass sections from Eileen's Emporium because the produce very fine brass sections in 500mm lengths which was exactly the size I required. So I enclose a few quick photos taken this morning on the iPad, so please excuse the quality. Also shown in the first photo is one of the four external corner lamps (non illuminated) which were kindly made up for me by Replica Railways, they are slightly oversized but it would have been impossible to have made them to the correct scale as the metalwork would have been so thin it would be unworkable. I also enclose an interior photo again showing a few of the many shed interior lights, these do light up, again please excuse the shiny worktop floor. Regards David Edited October 23, 2015 by landscapes 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Good Afternoon All I have finally completely finished the water tower at Haymarket, my problem was a making up two water supply pipes one of which had three 90 degree bends in its length and runs from the tank side down to the ground. Gareth of Replica Railways in Swindon kindly fabricated this for me along with the other straight run water pipe located at the other end on the water tank, both made from 3mm dis solid brass sections , many thanks to him for this. I have also now also completely finished the shed master and General Office's building as well apart from a few rain water pipes still required. I do not know why but this building has been a real problem for me to finish, i think it was due to being scratch built from photos only and having so much intricate detail to it. I would like the opportunity to thank, Dave Hewitt of Unit Models who kindly made the chimney stacks I required in resin from my own sketch details. Also Dave Franks of LMS for supplying the correct size chimney pots, and last but not least Eric Kidd of Longdrem & Pinkhill layout fame, without Eric's knowledge of Haymarket and the details he supplied me I do not believe I would have been able to build the model to the detail required. It's very reassuring to know there are fellow modellers willing to use there expertise and knowledge to help out when problems arise as without there help I would have found some of the details almost impossible to make myself. My next building for the layout is the Fitter's Bothy which was a small building with a flat roof located just outside the main shed East elevation just next to the turntable, hopefully this should be a pretty straightforward building to make. A few updated photos enclosed. Regards David Edited November 20, 2015 by landscapes 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Are you on Face book? Couple of pictures of Haymarket on the "Scottish Railways" page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScottishRailways/?fref=nf See: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207669471678519&set=gm.556925247793531&type=3&theater and https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207669485558866&set=gm.556925894460133&type=3&theater Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Are you on Face book? Couple of pictures of Haymarket on the "Scottish Railways" page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScottishRailways/?fref=nf See: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207669471678519&set=gm.556925247793531&type=3&theater and https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207669485558866&set=gm.556925894460133&type=3&theater Hi 26power I am on Facebook but have not used it for quite a long time, the first link goes to Scottish Railways but it looks like a closed group and I cannot get access. The second two links both say not available access may have expired. But thank you for putting them on the thread. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi 26power I am on Facebook but have not used it for quite a long time, the first link goes to Scottish Railways but it looks like a closed group and I cannot get access. The second two links both say not available access may have expired. But thank you for putting them on the thread. Regards David Hi 26power I have now joined group and found photos, really great panoramic view across the west end of shed. This will be of great help to me in setting out the layout. Many thanks again for the information. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Good Afternoon Now I have finished the five main building components for my Haymarket Layout I now need to look at what I can achive with the given space available to me at the present time. Looking at the Haymarket OS Plan I know I need an area of approximately 1200mm x 4600mm which will equate to 8 No 1200mm x 600mm base boards to achieve a reasonalbe 4mm scale layout of Haymarket MPD and the adjoining east and west yards. At the present time I only have a space of 1200mm x 2750mm avaialbe to me, which means I can only build the first 4.5 baseboards. So I have set out the buildings in accordance with the dimensions taken from the OS plan, this will be only 250 mm length behind the west elevation wall of the main shed building, then working east to include the turntable, general office building and the entire east yard, leading onto the main lines. There will be either four or six main lines running in front of the main shed south elevation which includes the water tank and coaling tower. There are about another seven or eight smaller building still to construct but these will all be done in due course. I needed to get this information and the building positions before I can start looking at the track plans. A few photos are enclosed which may give an idea on what I have been rambling on about plus a not to scale dimensioned layout drawing as well, hopefully these will also give an indication of what the Haymarket layout will finally start to look like. The first photo indicates that the area inside the wood planks up to the rad will be my 1200mm x 2750mm layout space. I am now away for a week, after that I will finally order the first four baseboards which I am really looking forward to making up. Regards David 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Good Evening All I finally got my first sheet of 9mm thick 1220mm x 2440mm Birch Plywood cut to equal size for the tops to the first four baseboards. Positioning the main buildings now gives me the opportunity to start planning the track layout and mark out all areas to be cut out for the turntable pit, main shed inspection pits both internal and external and finally the pit below the coal tower wagon hoist platform. Actually seeing the layout now finally taking shape has made me realise that it's not going to be straight forward with the prototype track plan especially as I have reduced the original main shed length by 400mm which means condensing down the track work to the South side of the shed. Also it has given me the opportunity to mark out the main building locations. If all goes to plan I intend to use C&L Finescale track work, not sure about the points as I need about 24 in total, I will have to look into them more closely and I think I am going to need help with getting it set out and printed on roll paper as a template. Photos enclosed. Regards David Edited December 10, 2015 by landscapes 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Good Evening All Following my last post a few days ago and the awful weather we have had today I took the opportunity to plan out the track layout for Haymarket be it at a smaller scale of 1:10. But it does give me a good indication on how the track layout will look and hopefully be of help when I manage to get the whole thing set out full size, it also indicates how many points I will need. The enclosed photo now shows the position of the first four base boards inconjuction with the layout, this is just over half of the final full layout length. The angled pencil line to the top right hand corner indicates the wasted area to the last two base boards and subject to final landscaping and trying to incorporate the main entrance into Haymarket MPS which was off of Russell Road I may be able to cut some of the waste off thus reducing the overall width to the last two boards. The yellow line indicates the outer perimeter of the baseboards, also there are still quite a few outstanding building's to make, most of them will now be positioned to the area where the angled pencil line is and will form a backdrop to that part of the layout. Looking at the plan I now know I will have to condense down some of the track work layout otherwise the overall length of the layout would be so big it would be impossible for me to house it anywhere. Hope fully this will now start to pull the whole thing together and make sone sense of the information I have given in the last few posts. Regards David Edited December 12, 2015 by landscapes 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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