Taz's Kit building workbench - Ex GW Comet Coaches

[Taz]

For a while now I've been really inspired by the work of Coachmann and others with their brass coach building and wanted to have a go myself.

So after asking for advice here on a suitable beginners kit I purchased a complete kit for a Collet K42 full brake (kit W13) from Comet at last years Scaleforum.

This is what you get with the complete kit. I also added in the coach super detailing detailing etch (C26) and some coach roof tape (C20) - which it turns out I will not need for this coach.



This is the first time I have ever built anything in brass so I was expecting it to be a learning process with a few mistakes made along the way.

As with most things I buy, this kit spent a lot of time in the cupboard until I dug it out a couple of months ago to make a start.

I wanted to add as much detail as possible to the model (hence buying the super detailing etch) so I started off by adding all the bits to the sides. This included door hinges (supplied on the detailing etch), handrails (0.45mm wire), droplights and also the door bangs. The position of these is marked on the sides with half etch dimples. I drilled these out and inserted stubs of 0.33mm wire which were then filed back almost flush:



This particular coach only has steps and alarm gear at one end so with one end I soldered the step etch flush to the back of the coach end and then filled the etched holes with filler to produce a smooth surface.



The roof was then cut to length and drilled out to accept the roof vents and grab rails. A lesson was learnt here, that it is not a good idea to mark up the roof in front of the TV. I was obviously distracted and it wasn't until I had drilled the holes that I realised they weren't parallel to the roof. So they were filled in and I started again, taking more care and using a pair of deviders to aid positioning.
The vents and wire were then secured with epoxy.

The ends and sides were then soldered together and the roof secured with epoxy :





The chassis was then folded up and soldered and the footboards added, following the plan provided in the kit. This is where my next mistake occured, as I hadn't read the plan correctly and in effect used it upside down. This mean tthe footbaords didn't line up with the doors :



So off they came and using the body as an additional guide, they were resoldered into place.

This kit doesn't come with an interior, but K42s had a corridor, so you couldn't see all the way through, from one side window to the other.
So I decided to knock up a simple interior out of plasticard:



I'll probably find that by the time windows have been added with representations of the bars behind and the whole coach weathered that this will have been completely unecessary...

I was then going to fit the underframe details but hit a problem.
I didn't realise until I got to this stage, but Geoff has accidently supplied me with LMS coach fittings insted of GWR ones:



So this will have to wait until after this years Scaleforum, when I can purchase some replacement GWR coach fittings from Geoff.

I was also surprised that there is no representation on the underframe of the cross bracing between the trusses:



I may decide to add these in myself from scrap etch or plastic section.

So I moved onto the bogies. I added the etched brake blocks and soldered 0.7mm wire to represent the brake gear.

Before adding the whitemetal sides I put it all together and tested the running which was all ok

When I came to add the whitemetal sides I hit my next problem. The sides are slightly taller than the brass frames and this meant the bogies now hit the coach solebars and wouldn't rotate freely.



My first thought was to add a packing piece of plasticard as shown in the above photo. This fixed the rotation issue but meant that the coach now rode too high.
I took it to DRAG last Monday to garner opinion on a possible solution and the general consensus was that I would have no alternative but to file down the tops of the whitemetal castings. Any other thoughts on this?

So at the moment this is how she looks:





Although I've made a few mistakes along the way I've thoroughly enjoyed this and recommend anyone thinking about it to take the plunge. These Comet kits are excellent and I'll certainly be building some more in the future, once this one is finished. The only problem is it means there is less modelling time for me to actually spend on building something for it to run on

Edited December 29, 2020 by Taz

[gwrrob]

Well played sir ! I have plastikard on my bogies and I'm happy with the height Taz but I don't have the new style Comet bogies on mine with the old screwed spacer on.What thickness is your card ? Another alternative is to try a spare pair of Bachmann Collett bogies as they are the same type.

 

On the underframe I'd use 1mm angle between the trusses.You've done an excellent job of the hinges too.Painstaking I'd call it.You've got me wanting to do another..

[brossard]

This is looking good indeed! I wouldn't wait for Scaleforum to get replacement castings. Why not email Geoff for the correct castings?

 

I'm doing some Roxey coaches myself. I soldered most of the castings (queenposts, gas tanks and bolster springs)to the brass without melting anything.

 

John

[Miss Prism]

Taz - did you find the turnunder on the sides a bit too much as supplied?

[Mallard60022]

Taz, this being your first attempt you should now take a good round of applause. A truly excellent start and you will now be addicted having sniffed the solder fumes.

I really like the hinges and 'bumpers'; as GW Rob says they are a faff but well worth the effort.

I'm sure Geoff won't mind me mentioning that he does neat little springing units for bogies (they give a smoother 'ride'); worth trying.

There are also some nice 'additional' GWR bits in the Dart castings/MJH/ Frogmore range. I have used some neat sprung GWR buffers; a bit expensive but a nice touch. I believe Pendon use Masokits gangway sets if you decided you needed to 'go detailed' on a future kit.

The only thing I do differently from yourself it would seem is that during the build I solder the ends to the sides before I add the steps as I find it easier to get things square.

This is a good little coach and I am sure it will be the first of many.

Welcome to the club.

P @36E

[Michael Delamar]

looks excellent, agree with John, give them a call and he will hopefully send you the right bit.

[Castle]

Hi Taz,

 

This is really ace - well done! I chickened out when doing my first brass coach and did a Hawksworth (no tumble home to speak of in 4mm scale!) although it was an auto trailer so I did up the complexity a bit... I agree with Mallard 60022 as there are some lovely bits in the Dart et al range. I bought all the castings from the auto trailer detail kt to fit to my model of No. 231, which they are very happy to do if you give them a ring. The other place that does nice sprung GWR coach buffers (pre assembled appart from the buffer heads) is Model Railway Developments. I have some on my Siphon and Monster and they are very nice. I agree with Michael and others above, Comet are very helpful if you ask!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[pete_mcfarlane]

That's a good bit of work.

 

I've used the GWR battery box castings from 247 Developments on my two Comet GWR coaches. The real thing was hung under the coach from supports at each end and has a big chunk of daylight visible between the top of the box and the solebars. This is one of the distinctive features of these coaches and the 247 castings replicate it, unlike the Comet ones.

[artisan100]

Hi Taz,

 

Good work on the coach, but I agree with Mallard that it's perhaps easier to join the sides to the ends completely square if you leave fitting the end steps, etc until later.

 

Anyway, can't hold you up now, so pm me your address and I'll send you the correct pack of whitemetal undergubbins.

 

We're closed for a holiday next week, so may not get it in the post until we return.

 

Geoff

Comet Models

[Taz]

Thanks all for your kind comments. It is much appreciated.

 

Well played sir ! I have plastikard on my bogies and I'm happy with the height Taz but I don't have the new style Comet bogies on mine with the old screwed spacer on.What thickness is your card ? Another alternative is to try a spare pair of Bachmann Collett bogies as they are the same type.

 

On the underframe I'd use 1mm angle between the trusses.You've done an excellent job of the hinges too.Painstaking I'd call it.You've got me wanting to do another..

 

Rob, I'll measure the plasticard later and get back to you. Bachmann bogies could be a backup plan but I would like to use what is supplied with the kit (waste not etc).

 

Good tip re 1mm angle.

 

I'm doing some Roxey coaches myself. I soldered most of the castings (queenposts, gas tanks and bolster springs)to the brass without melting anything.

 

John

 

John, I don't know if I'm brave enough to solder whitemetal yet, especially as I don't have a temperature controlled iron. I think epoxy will be the order of the day for the moment.

 

Taz - did you find the turnunder on the sides a bit too much as supplied?

 

Do you mean the tumblehome? If so, it was actually almost spot on. I just needed to slightly increase it for it to match the shape of the end etchings.

 

The only thing I do differently from yourself it would seem is that during the build I solder the ends to the sides before I add the steps as I find it easier to get things square.

This is a good little coach and I am sure it will be the first of many.

Welcome to the club.

P @36E

 

In hindsight, I agree with you and that is the way I will be doing it in the future (I think that is the way Comet recommend as well).

 

Hi Taz,

 

This is really ace - well done! I chickened out when doing my first brass coach and did a Hawksworth (no tumble home to speak of in 4mm scale!) although it was an auto trailer so I did up the complexity a bit... All the best,

 

Castle

 

The tumblehome is already preformed on these Comet kits so no issues there. I would be more worried at getting the roof right on a Hawksworth (ligning up the two end castings with an aluminium roof......)

 

Hi Taz,

 

Good work on the coach, but I agree with Mallard that it's perhaps easier to join the sides to the ends completely square if you leave fitting the end steps, etc until later.

 

Anyway, can't hold you up now, so pm me your address and I'll send you the correct pack of whitemetal undergubbins.

 

We're closed for a holiday next week, so may not get it in the post until we return.

 

Geoff

Comet Models

 

Thanks Geoff, that is really decent of you. I'l fire of a pm in a bit.

 

And thanks again for producing such a quality kit. I'll definately be back for more

[Captain Kernow]

_{Having seen this 'in the metal' at DRAG last Monday night, I can confirm that Brian is producing a real quality bit of work here, especially for a first time brass kit. It's also very heartening to see the readily offered good advice, plus the support from Geoff at Comet!}

[Taz]

Thanks Cap'n.

 

Rob, In answer to your question, the plasticard spacers are 20 thou.

 

I have compared the Comet bogies to some Bachmann ones and they do appear to be slightly higher:

 

 

The comparison has also shown that it is quite a bit wider than the Bachmann version :

 

 

So, assuming the Bachmann version is correct, it looks like I shall have to do some filing in both the vertical and horizontal planes.

[gwrrob]

Thanks Cap'n.

 

Rob, In answer to your question, the plasticard spacers are 20 thou.

 

I have compared the Comet bogies to some Bachmann ones and they do appear to be slightly higher:

 

 

The comparison has also shown that it is quite a bit wider than the Bachmann version :

 

 

So, assuming the Bachmann version is correct, it looks like I shall have to do some filing in both the vertical and horizontal planes.

 

I too measured mine Brian and found them to be more than 20 thou but its needed to clear the frames.It might need a bit of experimenting.

 

On other vehicles with pressed steel bogies I've used Bachmann myself and turned a brass bush that sits over the M2.5 screw snugly into the collar on the Bachmann bogie like in your photo.

[Miss Prism]

So, assuming the Bachmann version is correct,

 

For plate frame bogies, there's little chance of anything being of correct width when using 26mm pinpoints. These bogies are 70" over their side plates.

[10800]

Great work Brian, I wouldn't have believed that was your first brass kit (you should see mine!).

[Sidecar Racer]

Just found this thread , I

 

have to agree with everyone else , a superb job for

a first time .

 

Now if I send you all my brass coach's would you like some more practise ???????

It's only a couple of Centenaries and ...........................

Edited September 3, 2012 by Sidecar Racer

[Taz]

Thanks all for your kind comments.

 

Mike, that is very brave of you, offering me your kits to practice on

[Sidecar Racer]

Thanks all for your kind comments.

 

Mike, that is very brave of you, offering me your kits to practice on

 

Not a problem Brian , if I can help someone improve their modelling abilities .......

[Brinkly]

Well done Brian! We've both been productive since we bought that jig, as I've built two copper clad points and you have built a coach. What coupling system have you decided to use?

 

Regards,

[Taz]

Cheers Nick,

 

Does this mean that it's my turn for the Vee jigs on Monday? If not I might have to build another coach while I'm waiting

 

To be fair, I have been working on this on and off for a couple of months now.

 

I'm toying with the idea of fitting some Keen Systems close couplers so I can fit the Hornby/Roco type that I use on my other coaching stock. But we shall see as it will involve hacking about the bogies and floor.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Taz

[Taz]

Progress update:

 

I decided I would fit some Keen systems close couplers. This would allow me to use the Hornby/Roco close coupling units I am standardising on for all my coaching stock.

this meant i had to do some modifications to the underframe and bogies. This basically entailed chopping a hole in the underframe at each end to allow the coupling mechanism to fit and removing the end stretcher from the bogies:

 

 

This also meant I had to do away with the standard Comet way of joining chassis and body together and I fabricated a simple L plate inside the body ends to receive a 8BA countersunk nut from the chassis.

 

For any future builds I will do these modifications before building the coach

 

The mechanisms were then glued in place on the underframe:

 

 

 

The Keen coupling mount (which is basically a U section) was modified by gluing a piece of plastic across the bottom to make a box section. The Roco coupling then fits neatly in this and is held nicely in place by the NEM tails. It can simply be removed by with a squeezing the tails with a pair of tweezers.

This results in very nice close coupling:

 

Coupled to a Hornby Hawksworth coach. Hornby model using Hornby coupling and K42 with Roco coupling.

 

Coupled to a Bachmann MK1 coach. Mk1 using Hornby coupling and K42 with Roco coupling.

 

This has been tested thouroughly both at home and on the DRAG TT2 test track and so far has behaved faultlessly.

 

For future builds I may mount the Keen mechanism further back from the ends as this will allow me to use the slightly longer Hornby version of the coupling (cheaper and easier to come by) and may also allow me to retain the standard Comet method of joining body and chassis.

 

I was able to catch up with Geoff at Scaleforum and exchange the LMS battery boxes for some GWR ones.

So I was able to finish all the underframe details. I added some extra bits such as the cross trussing (1mm brass angle), steam pipe (0.7mm brass rod) and representations of the brake rodding and dynamo belt (1mm brass strip).

 

 

Also whilst at Scaleforum I picked up a set of MJT sprung buffers and substituted these for the cast ones provided with the kit:

 

 

SO she's now finished and awaiting painting. I've dug out my new airbrush and have been practicing on some old tinplate coaches so hopefully I'll give it a bash at the weekend. Watch this space

[Mallard60022]

Damn fine job old bean. Great extra detailing too.

P @ 36E

[Taz]

Finally finished this one.

 

I had been held up initially because I couldn't find anyone who did the loading instructions for ex GW BGs. They are lettered slightly differently from other BGs with the instructions over 2 lines:

 

TO CARRY 15 TONS

WITH LOAD DISTRIBUTED

 

Eventually Steve from Railtec offered to knock me up a set and they arrived just before Christmas. Excellent service with an excellent product at a resonable price.

I can thoroughly recommend Railtec for anyone looking for bespoke transfers.

 

So once Christmas was out of the way I managed to crack on.

 

The corridor side. Paint used was Precision faded crimson for the bodywork, Humbrol matt blackfor the ends and undergubbins and Humbrol 67 for the roof. With the exception of the loading instructions the transfers are Modelmaster. The whole lot was then sprayed with Testors Dullcotte.

 

The compartment side. The window bars are modified 247 etches.I couldn't find any that exactly matched the GWR pattern but these are a pretty close.

 

 

The loading instruction markings. A slightly different colour to the Modelmaster transfers but this will be unoticable once the coach is  weathered.

 

It's not perfect but for my first exercise in brass and airbrushing I am quite happy with the result.

More importantly I have had loads of fun and I'm looking forward to doing another. But I think I should do some track building first.

[BlackRat]

Good effort that man!!!

[Castle]

Hi Brian,

 

That is a first class bit of work - especially as it is the first one you have ever done. you have the right to be very pleased with it. Nice one!

 

All the best,

 

Castle