Pinkmouse Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi folks Had a nice surprise today, a copy of the Roche loco drawings I won a while back on Ebay arrived, and tucked inside was a load of instructions for Perseverance kits and this little booklet: It was published by Hamblings, but has no date. By the style of writing I'd guess it was early fifties, but strangely doesn't mention nationalisation, so may be earlier. On a quick glance through, it seems to have some good stuff in it, but only dealing with bodywork, I'm guessing that the writer assumes the use of commercial chassis. Anyone have more info, or know who "Pro" was? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Just a quick bump in case it was missed in the Christmas frenzy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Also on http://www.oxfam.org...nd-books/169259 and in many places. Everyone says 1950-ish, but some say reprint. In which case it may be a desperation post war reprint . One site gives it an earlier date http://www.directtex...s/build-it-good HOW TO BUILD A GOOD OO LOCO Author: PRO ASIN: B000Z9HNQU Publisher: HAMBLINGS Format: Paperback Year: 1000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Also on http://www.oxfam.org...nd-books/169259 and in many places. Everyone says 1950-ish, but some say reprint. In which case it may be a desperation post war reprint . One site gives it an earlier date http://www.directtex...s/build-it-good HOW TO BUILD A GOOD OO LOCO Author: PRO ASIN: B000Z9HNQU Publisher: HAMBLINGS Format: Paperback Year: 1000 Yes.... 1000 AD is a touch early, and No....I do not know the Author, I worked for Hamblings and I believe the booklet came from the early war period. Could have been Stewart Reidpath or one of many early years modellers. Advice is relevant, with the caveat that standards have increased of course. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Thanks chaps. My Googling hadn't produced any info of note, so it's nice to learn a bit more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 After the war there were shortages of many types - I still have one of my ratio books from when I was 3. Paper was not rationsed but there was a shortage. In the late 1940s there as a resurgence in hobbies of all types - there had not been the money or the leisure to pursue them during the war years. In order to cater for this demand material that had been produced in the 1930s was reprinted as was. This happened in model engineering as well as model railways and in other areas. It was all a bit haphazard - if the original print blocks had been destroyed or reused for the metal reprints would not have been made. Nd t wasn't only short works. On a shelf behind me I have an illustrated book called 'The Countryside Companion" ehich shows a reprint date of 1948, but all the illustrations appear to be pre-war as far as I can date them. Thus, although the date suggested for your publication in 1950s, it may well be a reprint of a pre-war original. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I have the same book and also no print date, but it does acknowledge the help of British Railways for the loan of photo's and all are pre 1948. My copy has the original owners name, address and date of purchase "J. C. Skipsey, 44 Morpeth Street. Hull 12 Jan 1950". Therefore my book is nominally 60 years old. Of interest, "JC" is still about and at 82 still modelling. Best Wishes, Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 29, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2009 My copy has the original owners name, address and date of purchase "J. C. Skipsey, 44 Morpeth Street. Hull 12 Jan 1950". Therefore my book is nominally 60 years old. Of interest, "JC" is still about and at 82 still modelling. Best Wishes, Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Of interest, "JC" is still about and at 82 still modelling. Excellent! Did he ever build the "Schools" that plans are provided for? I'd love to see pics if he did! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 A friend who reads these columns says the book was first available about 1947, in the form with the green cover, and to date the copy, it may be mentioned in the main A Hamblings Catalogue, but I know from personal experience other booklets were not, card modelling for instance. They were the kind of stock for the shop counter, impulse buys, and lasted till stock ran out, sometimes never re-printed at all. I know stocks had gone by 1970. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 A trawl though the contemporary model railway press may reveal more. I can't do it my magazines only date back to 1952. Best Wishes, Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Excellent! Did he ever build the "Schools" that plans are provided for? I'd love to see pics if he did! My copy's got a "Lord Nelson" in it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Shhh... Don't tell the Eridge boys I can't tell one Southern loco from another... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 It is certainly silent on the BR Standards, so may have been published before Britannia got off the drawing board. On the other hand, I would be inclined to think that it was published at or around the time of nationalisation since, on intro page (iii), it states: "The Publishers wish to convey their thanks to British Railways, Western, Southern, Eastern and London Midland Regions for their kind co-operation in the loan of photos included in this book and their kind assistance and interest so readily given". The book was printed by The Allen Lithographic Co. Ltd., Townsend Works, Kirkcaldy. Are they still going? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It is certainly silent on the BR Standards, so may have been published before Britannia got off the drawing board. On the other hand, I would be inclined to think that it was published at or around the time of nationalisation since, on intro page (iii), it states: "The Publishers wish to convey their thanks to British Railways, Western, Southern, Eastern and London Midland Regions for their kind co-operation in the loan of photos included in this book and their kind assistance and interest so readily given". The book was printed by The Allen Lithographic Co. Ltd., Townsend Works, Kirkcaldy. Are they still going? They are, as long as the same firm, same town, same name Tel: 0592 267201 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The printers Scottish address suggests a possible connection with the late Rev Edward Beal, he was either the owner or partner in the firm "Mirco", the producers of the pre-printed wagon sides and building papers etc. I believe there was also some connection between them and Hamblings. Once again a trawl through the contemporary model press would probably reveal more. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 They are, as long as the same firm, same town, same name Tel: 0592 267201 Might be an idea to ask whether they've got any archive material stretching back to 1948.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 A search reveals the printers have a website, an E Mail in the new year could well answer a few questions. I respectfully suggest the originator of this thread contacts them, I only say this because bombarding the firm with the same or similar question will do little for good relations. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 A search reveals the printers have a website, an E Mail in the new year could well answer a few questions. I respectfully suggest the originator of this thread contacts them, I only say this because bombarding the firm with the same or similar question will do little for good relations. Mick Nicholson. Will do! Thanks again chaps, and I hope to give forth further info in a week or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The Rev Edward Beal is a very sound suggestion, he did brochure style booklets for Hamblings, as did E.Rankine Gray, (ERG products). If copyright holder, or estate, can be traced it may be "lapsed", and could be reproduced as a PDF perhaps, but only with consent that copyright has time expired fully. Also as it was published by a well known printer it must be recorded in the British Library, whose records may contain the writers real identity, (usually disclosed). Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Perhaps it may be worth listing a few suspects from the period so that evidence for or against can be cited. Construction methods, style of illustration , and literary style might all be indicators Edward Beal is possible but I think his books tended to be general - layouts , railway modelling as a whole. He did produce a series of monographs for Modelcraft, but under his own name and they weren't this kind of detailed constructional advice. Also "Pro" does not sound like a suitable nom de plume for Edward Beal. His style of illustration should be recognisable - this may be an indication E R Grey I know only by reputation , but perhaps some comparison could be made with the ERG kits material for illustration style/literary style Other possibilities in the period might include FJ Roche - though as he published locobuilding articles / books under his own name , he might not have been involved with this. JH Ahearn can probably be ruled out , as he published his locobuilding book under his own name as well. Both had already "got it out of their system" A very plausible candidate (says he, who wasn't even alive in the 1940s) would be EF Carter. He certainly did a lot of this sort of writing-to-order for various people, he seems largely to have supported himself on his modelling/model journalism and he was certainly strongly "constructional". "Pro" would be a plausible nom de plume for him. Again his style and approach might be recognisable. I suspect it won't be Micheal Longridge - too finescale (HO/EM) and rather more tied to the Model Rly Constructor. I have a rolling stock construction book he wrote for them in the late 40s Or it could be someone we've never heard of, who built locos to order for Hamblings in the late 30s and late 40s . That , arguably , would be a very logical way for Hamblings to have originated such a book and would explain "Pro" I wouldn't put much weight on a printer in Kirkaldy. Hamblings would probably used their existing printer, who produced their catalogues - and possibly the longstanding Merco lithos . If they were simply using their regular printer, however and whenever they originally started business with them, it doesn't offer any clues The British Library (or the other copyright libraries - Cambridge University Library, Bodlean Library and I think 1 other - ? plus Trinity College Dublin?) might hold a copy. However , although they have the right to claim a copy, they don't necessarily exercise that right on every single publication- especially in respect of minor magazines and ephemeral material of exactly this type. Furthermore you have to have a readers' ticket to get in (and I don't - last time I checked , the BL required an explanation of why you needed access to the collection and 2 substantial references supporting your application and your need) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 On reflection, I reckon the book was wrote by one of Hambling's builders, the text is openly a "Plug" for their products and note no ref to building the loco frames and mechanism. The author obviously wasn't too clued up on the finer details of frame construction, see last but one paragraph page 13. He quotes "That is 3ft 6in, which is the standard width of mainframes on most types, and is standard for most model locos". 3ft 6in equals 14mm, impossible for 00 gauge, the Back to Back is 14.5mm. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I suspect that phone number may have been shown on the original book, but now needs a "1" inserteted after the initial zero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I suspect that phone number may have been shown on the original book, but now needs a "1" inserteted after the initial zero The phone number is current according to Guild of Scottish Printers site. The mistakes are revealing, either an 18mm modeller, or a simple mistake. Might even have been written by Hambling himself. It is many years since seeing a copy of this booklet. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Hi folks Had a nice surprise today, a copy of the Roche loco drawings I won a while back on Ebay arrived, and tucked inside was a load of instructions for Perseverance kits and this little booklet: It was published by Hamblings, but has no date. By the style of writing I'd guess it was early fifties, but strangely doesn't mention nationalisation, so may be earlier. On a quick glance through, it seems to have some good stuff in it, but only dealing with bodywork, I'm guessing that the writer assumes the use of commercial chassis. Anyone have more info, or know who "Pro" was? Did anymore information come to light on this book? Mick Nicholson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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