Baby Deltic Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 An end to wish-list type threads? Or is that one step too far... Andi That sounds like a wish to me. Add it to the wish list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted September 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 6, 2012 A chip for my head which will make the sausages on the end of my hands do exactly what I want them to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted September 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 6, 2012 A machine that can produce extra hours each day for you, on demand, but only for modelling purposes (and without you feeling even more knackered at the end of it!)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Agree! Steam sound just ain't good enough, and it sure isn't as realistic as me going "hiss, chuff, chuffchuff chuff" etc. My fave sound layout is Vine Street whjch is mixed steam and diesel, but has all sorts of noises such as buffering, coupling clank and things; but as you say none of the squeal of stock going round tight curves, points changing etc. However, I expect sound will improve at least as much as rtr has in the last ten years or so, so I shall sit and wait. Ed Agree with both of you; I am a big fan of DCC being the first member of Cardiff's Bay MRG to walk the DCC route. However I find the sound very "thin" and after a while it gets on my nerves! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted September 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 6, 2012 That said, I can see the advantage of having a steam-sound loco rinning around the garden as at least the sound would fade away instead of being constant as in a room. It's interesting how the sound does vary quite noticeably as the loco goes through tunnels, cuttings, in and out of backscenes etc - obviously not to the degree that it would in a garden but the modulation in sound is quite pleasing all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Agree! Steam sound just ain't good enough, and it sure isn't as realistic as me going "hiss, chuff, chuffchuff chuff" etc. My fave sound layout is Vine Street whjch is mixed steam and diesel, but has all sorts of noises such as buffering, coupling clank and things; but as you say none of the squeal of stock going round tight curves, points changing etc. However, I expect sound will improve at least as much as rtr has in the last ten years or so, so I shall sit and wait. Ed Id say its already improving. A great reason why I am much in favour of Howes sound chips is that it does include sounds for the track, engine, stock etc. The Fairburn I have has a track groan sound as the wieght of the engine presses down and also the buffer and coupling clank-clank as the slack is taken up between wagons when a freight train sets off. It sounds fantastic and is one reason why the engine is now pretty much always on the demo freight on my preserved line. Howes also come with wheel flange, doors closing, etc, but nothing can beat the clickity-clack of the stock itself running over the small gaps Ive left in the track between fishplates for this very purpose. Im quite happy with it and know other that have seen the layout are too. Its due to appear at the Shildon exhibition at Locomotion on 13th and 14th October. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Clearly dcc sound grates with some people but I dont see any reason for it to die a death - rumours of which I would suggest are greatly exaggerated unless the point is one of affordability which does stick in the craw. Some new sound models now £250+ which still translates into a solid £200-£220 if you include the cost of the de riguer "reblow". Its the same with lights as I know this is a a bug bear with some and thats OK so long as we continue to have choice. Without wanting to jump on the bandwagon of turning this into a wishlist thread I have to agree about Bachmann Mk2 aircons...... Future developments? (excludng retools of existing) Perhaps the AC electric loco catalogues will grow depending on sales of thew Class 85. Will there be a revival of widespread 3mm/TT gauge? A scale that really appeals to me but alas it would take decades to replace my current layout like for like with the smaller gauge. Although not a direct comparison, Dapol did move into 0 gauge with its brave new 08 shunter.... New premium coaching stock fitted out to the same standards as the Blue Pullman stock with tail lamps, table lamps, prototypical interior colours and decoration and detail, vestibule and roof mounted lighting and built in working flexible gangways/sprung buffers as standard? I would like to see Bachmann fitted sprung buffers similar to the premium Hornby locos with the metal shanks as painting these can bung them up which if you like to keep them sprung ruins them. I know not all diesels had a shiny shank so this would have to be carefully researched. Improvements in lighting on locos not the overly bright intense and unrealistic lighting we have on some models. Has 3rd rail track been done yet? Like the peco yard lengths-pre fitted with the 3rd rail and insulators out of the box? Is that a goer or even practical? It would certainly please a lot of SR modellers. Peco were releasing longer turnouts than the current large radius ones so seeing these come through would be good and of course offer greater realism if not totally to scale still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted September 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 6, 2012 The other aspect about steam locomotive is the wheels go round to an extent that they are easily seen. That means exhaust beats must match wheel revolutions and not all models and chips have been released where thats the case. Its much harder getting that accuracy right and linking it to the amount of cylinders and engine would have, than just a diesel where the engine is heard and the motion all internal to the exterior of the engine. Picking up on that quote - a quick advert for my friend Paul Martin of EDM Models who produces a selection of sound synchronisation discs to match the revolutions to the loco sounds - even to the extent of having one that sounds 'off beat' http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Synch_Cam/soundsynch.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Personally, sound doesn't do much for me as it doesn't include the ambience of track and rolling stock sounds as well as that of the background. I think that is likely to be the next development in DCC sound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 ... The other aspect about steam locomotive is the wheels go round to an extent that they are easily seen. That means exhaust beats must match wheel revolutions .... That's the barest necessity. The 'repertoire' of a steam loco's sound output is so varied, dependent on regulator and cut off settings, the drawbar load and the speed, and the distance it is heard from. The first sound I would be wanting is the low frequency hum of a loco running fast heard from a distance (specialty stuff I agree, as only those who lived near the ECML will have heard this). The crude 'chuff' of DCC sound doesn't remotely cut the mustard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I'd like to comment on some of the points made above about steam sound..... It's certainly possible for steam locos to sound as if the driver has shut the regulator - mine do, if I drive them properly. It's also possible to synchronise the chuffs with the wheels - I did that to mine and it's close enough for me. Whilst it cost me about £150 to chip some of my 7mm locos most of them were done for less than £100 - a significant amount I must conceed and, if you don't like sound then it's obviously a waste of money for you (it's not compulsory you know!!!) but IMHO worth it. The one feature I would like, which as far I know is not available with steam sound, is for a loco to be able to move off slowly with no chuffs, just lots of hiss. If you don't recognise this as a steam loco habit just spend a day at your nearest preserved line. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Speaking for myself I hope that the future development of 3D printing will lead to many relatively cheap kits of relatively obscure prototypes. And the development of laser cut wood kits has massive potential for wagon kits, especially in the larger scales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Speaking of RTR steam locos with sound matched to wheels revolutions, when the German 0 gauge manufacturer, Lenz introduced their new BR64 2-6-2T, this model was delayed by a considerable while until herr Lenz felt it was "right", therefore it is possible to dothis and boy, does it sound good! Another loco, again in 0 gauge, that has excellent sound is the Lionheart Pannier tank. Limited models so far, but it should all be translatable into the smaller scales and, eventually may become cheaper? Other features, working inside motion? I have a Gutzold, German 2-10-0 with working inside motion (a BR58.30 3 cylinder machine) and that runs sublimely but it does come at quite a price! How about working, raising and lowering pantographs? See top of the range Roco and ESU electric loco models! Opening and closing coach doors or even, sliding wagon roofs? Again, Roco! A feature from both the US and Euro markets is working auto couplings, now all we need is a decent, robust, realistic working coupling that all UK manufacturers could adopt! Many things are possible, it just requires imagination and sometimes, deep pockets! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I'd like to comment on some of the points made above about steam sound..... It's certainly possible for steam locos to sound as if the driver has shut the regulator - mine do, if I drive them properly. It's also possible to synchronise the chuffs with the wheels - I did that to mine and it's close enough for me. Whilst it cost me about £150 to chip some of my 7mm locos most of them were done for less than £100 - a significant amount I must conceed and, if you don't like sound then it's obviously a waste of money for you (it's not compulsory you know!!!) but IMHO worth it. The one feature I would like, which as far I know is not available with steam sound, is for a loco to be able to move off slowly with no chuffs, just lots of hiss. If you don't recognise this as a steam loco habit just spend a day at your nearest preserved line. Chaz All I am saying is that so far I haven't seen (wrong verb) al ayout with steam sound that I have found satisfactory. I suspect that if I do then I will be converted. Bit like word processing. I struggled and gave up with wordstar and wordperfect (haha) and still gave typing to the secretary, but when Mr Gates came to the rescue all became easy. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 A chip for my head which will make the sausages on the end of my hands do exactly what I want them to. CNC fingers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 In a way I'm a little glad I'm not fussed with keeping up with new technology / fads etc. Whilst I love to see hi-tec layouts with DCC & sound fantastically modelled at exhibitions, at home I still run my old Hornby Dublo / Trix (A2, A3, A4 & Western) / Triang / Lima etc along with new Hornby & Bachman. There is something special about being aged 60 and running locos you got for your 21st birthday !!. You can't stop technology advance, and nor would I try or even advocate this, but there comes a point in life where you are satisfied with what you have / do - I reached this stage 10 years ago. What do I hope for ? - More young people in the hobby or it will stagnate / diminish alarmingly in a few years. And when will Bachman release those damn Covhops !!!! Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiptonian Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Tied in with Grahame's comment in the previous post, I wonder if there will ever be a "proper" OO gauge track system produced (by Peco or somebody else). I know this is much-debated, but this thread is looking at what might happen. Given the production of minor loco classes - which maybe have limited appeal - you might expect due consideration could be given to the track system which the majority of modellers have to use. Jeff The lack of a serious OO track system has always suprised me. I seem to remember that stock placed on Triang Super 4 straight track looked better in relation to the sleepers than Peco (which always looked overwhelmed by the stock), though the rail was, shall we say, heavy! All things OO being compromise, my suggestion, hopefully with Physicsman's approval, would be sleepers 32mm x 3.8mm at a 9mm pitch. This would look good with and without stock on it. Given that Peco produces trackwork for gauges far less popular than OO, in OO/HO has produced steel-sleepered track (surely of very little appeal), and three different systems in HO, I would have thought the demand for a serious OO track system would make it worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted September 6, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 6, 2012 I never meant this to be a wish list thread but I do see how it can be seen as one, my intention was to look at trends and extrapolate from them. I must agree with the postings regarding steam sound, IMO it is not worth the money and will not be until it can be tuned to sound more throaty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 In a way I'm a little glad I'm not fussed with keeping up with new technology / fads etc. Whilst I love to see hi-tec layouts with DCC & sound fantastically modelled at exhibitions, at home I still run my old Hornby Dublo / Trix (A2, A3, A4 & Western) / Triang / Lima etc along with new Hornby & Bachman. There is something special about being aged 60 and running locos you got for your 21st birthday !!. You can't stop technology advance, and nor would I try or even advocate this, but there comes a point in life where you are satisfied with what you have / do - I reached this stage 10 years ago. Brit15 Who was it that said "contentment is when you stop trying to get what you want and start to want what you've got"? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Snip The problem with that scenario from Peco's point of view is that they would become their own main competitor! A large number of OO (or 00 if ya like ) modellers are reasonably happy with what Peco offer already, and those that arn't do have alternatives available.....I really cant see Peco ever making a "scale" OO track to be honest..... I've got to agree with you here. Peco has been around for a long time and we still use it despite the fact that other systems are available if less convenient, and in some cases relatively expensive (C&L springs to mind!). We can only blame ourselves because we still accept the inaccuracies and buy it. You can of course buy ready-built turnouts from such as Marcway which is what I'm doing for my new layout which takes away most of the hassle for the less nimble-fingered (like myself), but the fact remains that there is a wide open, almost certainly profitable, opportunity for someone to produce a more realistic ready-to-run track system at reasonable cost! Any manufacturers out there ready to take up the challenge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Wouldn't it be nice though if Peco were to give British outline modellers a track system worthy of the current HornBach products. If asked to advise (some hopes!!!), I would say base the new British track on the excellent American Code 83 geometry but using code 75 flat bottom rail. Then make a new track bases with wider spaced sleepers with decent chairs moulded on them. I suggest flat bottom rail as this can be held more securely than bullhead rail and would maintain the well-known integrity of Peco points and flexible track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Could just play the Dawlish Webcam sounds for that soothing seaside feeling My Howes DCC Sound class 37/0 has seagulls.... yes! Seriously it does! Function 13! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Wouldn't it be nice though if Peco were to give British outline modellers a track system worthy of the current HornBach products. If asked to advise (some hopes!!!), I would say base the new British track on the excellent American Code 83 geometry but using code 75 flat bottom rail. Then make a new track bases with wider spaced sleepers with decent chairs moulded on them. I suggest flat bottom rail as this can be held more securely than bullhead rail and would maintain the well-known integrity of Peco points and flexible track. It would indeed but they won't. While I'd prefer not to get into a Peco-bashing discussion which would not be fair on 7031, my point is that in the UK they have a virtual monopoly and therefore no incentive to improve at least to the point of matching the excellence of RTR products from Hornby, Bachmann and others. In the US they have stiff competition and need to keep up to survive. Thats why I'd like to see someone take up the challenge and offer a viable alternative to what is after all a track system which has been in need of updating (completely) for a good number of years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted September 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2012 The many superb drawings featured by Railway Modeller magazine springs readily to mind. An excellent opportunity for Peco to put these on line with current technology. It would indeed be a valuable resource. Edit for typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 ...... I must agree with the postings regarding steam sound, IMO it is not worth the money and will not be until it can be tuned to sound more throaty. You could have a long wait! The quality of the sound is always going to be limited by the size of the speakers, that's inescapable physics........but there is another consideration. You have to take into account the viewing distance. How far away are we (to scale) when watching a model and what would a real loco sound like at that distance? I once saw a USA NG layout which had a big sound system under the baseboards. Some large hi-fi speakers were producing a full frequency sound which you could feel in your chest and through your feet. Sounded absolutely glorious, with the rumble and roar of real steam locomotives and also such scene setters as a thunder storm. BUT the sound didn't even remotely "fit" the 1:48 models. I don't mean that the sounds weren't synchronised with the action - as I recall this wasn't done badly at all. To see the trains looking that big you would have to be a hundred yards away or more - wouldn't the distance rob the sound of most of the lower frequencies? I know this sounds like special pleading but if the sound is too full it just doesn't fit. I have two reservations about sound (steam or diesel)..... One is the expense, and I know where I stand. If it came down to two locos without sound or one with - well I would choose the latter. The other is the way that the sound does get to be annoying after a time. For this reason the diesels on my line are not allowed to endlessly tick over when stationary. I know it's not prototypical but when one of my diesels is to stand for some time it is shut down. Ironically the gentle hiss of a stationary steam loco doesn't irritate in the same way (although the safety valves lifting can be a challenge!). Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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