What could we dare hope for?

[Colin_McLeod]

I did buy a Hornby sound diesel once, but later sold the loco on E Bay, preferring a quiet running motor and natural wheel to rail noise.

 

I have seen (? heard) You Tube uploads of US steam engines with sound, where you can hear the crew talking. How annoying must that be when they say the same things every time; or to develop Chaz's point how many people watching a train going past can hear the crew talking or any of the other in cab sounds that sometimes are protrayed throught the sound chip?

 

I take Chaz's point about sound being too full on, but I would have thought it was a matter of volume/base controlto get it "just right". I do have intentions one day to try the under baseboard speaker arrangement, but that will have to wait a year or two yet.

[PhilJ W]

I would like to see more RTR industrial types. The MR Sentinel is a very good start but a few more 'conventional' types and perhaps some diesels wouldn't come amiss.

[7013]

I would like to see more RTR industrial types. The MR Sentinel is a very good start but a few more 'conventional' types and perhaps some diesels wouldn't come amiss.

There does appear to be a trend towards smaller locos (excluding the Garratt) recently, the little tank engines that Rails{?) are selling, the recent 3F, and revised 4Fs + the Wainwright, all of which appear to be well received and surely open the door for more similar locos, I wonder if we will get a run on industrial diesel shunters in the future?

[Poggy1165]

I would suggest that smaller engines are more useful to the modeller who has a typical small to medium layout than are large engines. However a) collectors seem the like the big flashy namers and B) we are all tempted by them, even if we haven't actually the room to run them properly. This is even more the case in 7mm scale than in 4mm scale.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... wouldn't the distance rob the sound of most of the lower frequencies? ...

Higher frequencies are attenuated more rapidly as distance increases.

 

The little matter of scaling the sound to a volume level that 'fits' the corresponding visual subject is a matter of taste, some will like it louder, some quieter. (Parallel: when replaying a music video I need a big screen image effectively filling the normal field of view to match the volume level that I typically listen at, if the effect is to be convincing. Using only a regular 32" screen at home, the effect is so unconvincing that audio only is my choice.)

 

What should not be compromised on though is reproduction of the full frequency range, and the difficult end of this is bass due to the size of the transducer required. The startling increase in realistic sound reproduction when the bass freqencies are present has to be experienced to be believed: for any who are interested get a copy of some of the ASV Transacord rail recordings on CD and tote the disc along to a serious hi fi retailer for a demo on a full range audio system. (Fair warning: take out second mortgage to own said system which you now realise is vital to continued enjoyment of life.)

 

The smallest rail models that could take the necessary size of transducers is probably 5" gauge. Even from O gauge models the sound is so bass starved as to be hopelessly compromised. On board sound is a non-starter as far as I am concerned in consequence.

[chaz]

Higher frequencies are attenuated more rapidly as distance increases.................The smallest rail models that could take the necessary size of transducers is probably 5" gauge. Even from O gauge models the sound is so bass starved as to be hopelessly compromised. On board sound is a non-starter as far as I am concerned in consequence.

 

I bow to your greater knowledge on the matter of attenuation.

 

I can't agree with your final point although you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Bass starved it may be but on-board sound still offers an increase in realism for me.

 

What I hope for now is realistic steam and smoke - the available effects look too much like coils of cigarette smoke for my taste - billowing clouds of steam as seen at the chimney of a steam loco may be impossible (just like the lower frequencies from tiny speakers!). I will just have to settle for hot days and clean fires.

 

Chaz

[7013]

What a shame that our hobby has tended to look forward instead of backwards over the years, not a bad thing but there is a huge area of modelling that has yet only had its surface scratched. The soon to be released Bachmann Wainwright C heralds from a time when railways were much gentler affairs, there have been a few other retrospective locos but there could be a huge opening in the market for pre-grouping locos and carriages wagons and infrastructure. I am just completing a rake of Ratio 4 wheel coaches painted in SE&CR colours decked out with SE&CR transfers. The rake are completely fictitious and the rivet counters would pick them to pieces, however they look like they come from a period that the C class would come from and I cannot wait to put them behind the loco. I have never really been interested in pre grouping before but what an opportunity, that opens the door for old road vehicles, both petrol and animal powered, figures of the age, buildings etc. Just one loco like the Wainwright C class could open up a whole new era...lets hope it does.

[MJI]

More obscure items, definately

 

A good example would be the NBL D84xx (class 16s)

 

I would expect a few shunters next to get the treatment, an accurate 06, maybe an 07, 02 would be popular, gone as far as possible would be a blue 05.

 

Then we look at units, still not that many, but when we get models of unusual ones (126), esoteric and not widely travelled (4 REP - but that has same pull as a large loco), that is near the end.

 

Coaches - XP64, as to Mark 1s not prototypes nor TPO, there are about 25 different types, how many are modelled - lets see

 

3 makes here, so may look odd mixed

 

1 restaurant out of 2 or 3

Buffets 3 out of 5 or so but all different makers, no current RBR

sleeper old moulding

FO NLA

old SO when TSO was TTO - none

TSO - OK

BSO none - so no BSOT

FK - OK

BFK - none

CK - OK

BCK - OK

SK - OK

BSK - OK

BG - OK

 

So if you went Bachmann 9 of them, but then I have a lot of Lima, a few Replica a few Hornby, a few etched sides, gets to look a bit inconsitant.

 

Wagons hundreds of gaps

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

More obscure items, definately

 

A good example would be the NBL D84xx (class 16s)...

Your wish has been anticipated. http://www.ehattons....tockDetail.aspx

 

The BR mk1 coach coverage is actually better than that in that in addition there are the mk1 Pullmans, RFO, TPO also available and a sleeper on the way, plus the GUV and somewhat dated non-corridors from Bachmann. So still some way from full coverage, but with circa twenty different types much better coverage of the variety to be found in steam age rolling stock than has ever previously been available RTR from a single maker. I very much hope that this scale of variety becomes the usual thing in the manufacturers ranges.

[Karhedron]

On the multiple unit front, I would make a few guesses. I would expect some of the first generation cross country units to be done fairly soon, probably either a 119 or 120. Well travelled and long-lived, they are very useful units. Unfortunately Bachmann seems to be maximising the investment on their 57' tooling so we may have to hope that Hornby or Dapol take the plunge here.

 

For EMUs, the situation is a little harder as each class tended to be more geographically limited. We can hope that Bachmann put together a car each from the 2-EPB and the 205 to make a 2-HAP. I think that a 319 would make a good choice as it is dual voltage, widely travelled and ahs had a truly eye-watering array of liveries over the years. Once this is done it would open the door to other similar Mk3 suburban EMUs.

[Phil Bullock]

My Howes DCC Sound class 37/0 has seagulls.... yes! Seriously it does! Function 13!

 

So does my Class 27! As she is a late 60s Midland lines loco I suspect they are from Saltley......

 

Phil

[EddieB]

As RTR models get better and better, when will someone break the mould and introduce a complete "out of the box" EM/S4 system - locos, rolling stock and proper 4mm trackwork (not HO masquerading as such)? (I'm not saying P4/Ultrascale standards, just the fine scale we now take for granted in OO).

 

What would be more achievable would be a modern version of the old Airfix figures - civilians, farm animals, etc. - in true 4mm scale rather than "OO/HO", and at affordable prices for mass-produced injection-moulded plastic.

 

Working signals, working ground signals, working point/signal rodding - we're getting there, but still some way to go.

 

Fantasy time: signals arms that bounce, people that move, working horses, steam locomotives that don't just produce smoke but drop their ashes, destination blinds that change...

[Baby Deltic]

More obscure items, definately

 

A good example would be the NBL D84xx (class 16s)

 

I would expect a few shunters next to get the treatment, an accurate 06, maybe an 07, 02 would be popular, gone as far as possible would be a blue 05.

 

Then we look at units, still not that many, but when we get models of unusual ones (126), esoteric and not widely travelled (4 REP - but that has same pull as a large loco), that is near the end.

 

Coaches - XP64, as to Mark 1s not prototypes nor TPO, there are about 25 different types, how many are modelled - lets see

 

3 makes here, so may look odd mixed

 

1 restaurant out of 2 or 3

Buffets 3 out of 5 or so but all different makers, no current RBR

sleeper old moulding

FO NLA

old SO when TSO was TTO - none

TSO - OK

BSO none - so no BSOT

FK - OK

BFK - none

CK - OK

BCK - OK

SK - OK

BSK - OK

BG - OK

 

So if you went Bachmann 9 of them, but then I have a lot of Lima, a few Replica a few Hornby, a few etched sides, gets to look a bit inconsitant.

 

Wagons hundreds of gaps

 

The class 16's are on their way.

[coachmann]

Modern Image layouts must be crying out for British figures in Indian dress, Chinese take-aways, people with doggy bags picking up the smelly stuff, modern cylists with no bells, mudguards or anything, street cameras galore, Tesco buildings plus Tesco inspired traffic systems with lots of traffic jams, shops with boarded up doors and windows, modern bus shelters for station platforms, boarded up police station, pub acting as Indian warehouse surrounded by pallets, yellow school buses, cars attached to pavements, people with mobile phones attached to ear, poeple pointing mobiles to take photos, pavement people carriers, 40D-cup women, and so on...

[Mythocentric]

What a shame that our hobby has tended to look forward instead of backwards over the years, not a bad thing but there is a huge area of modelling that has yet only had its surface scratched. The soon to be released Bachmann Wainwright C heralds from a time when railways were much gentler affairs, there have been a few other retrospective locos but there could be a huge opening in the market for pre-grouping locos and carriages wagons and infrastructure. I am just completing a rake of Ratio 4 wheel coaches painted in SE&CR colours decked out with SE&CR transfers. The rake are completely fictitious and the rivet counters would pick them to pieces, however they look like they come from a period that the C class would come from and I cannot wait to put them behind the loco. I have never really been interested in pre grouping before but what an opportunity, that opens the door for old road vehicles, both petrol and animal powered, figures of the age, buildings etc. Just one loco like the Wainwright C class could open up a whole new era...lets hope it does.

 

At least there are some good signs that this is a developing trend. The Wainwright C for one. As a long time modeller of the former Lancashire & Yorkshire lines I can't wait to get my hands on the forthcoming Aspinall 2-4-2T also from Bachmann. There are still a lot of very well regarded 'steamers' awaiting attention, most of which would be welcomed by the community. Although, like you, I have no interest in pre-grouping days, at least not from a modelling angle, a surprisingly large number of them were absorbed into BR stock. Same for coaching and goods stock. The big'un's may be nice but they didn't rule the roost in the day-to-day running. Bring it on!

[BG John]

RTR Broad Gauge!

[Mythocentric]

An excellent opportunity for Peco to put these on line with current technology. It would indeed be a valuable resource.

 

 

Edit for typo

 

Another source springs to mind again from Peco. In the past they have produced some superb books which included some excellent drawings. I have in mind two slim volumes, one of which contained drawings of LMS and GWR structures which were invaluable to me when I first started scratch-building. On a wider note, how many times have you seen someone asking for advice here on rmweb (and other sites) only to be referred to to a long out-of-print book which is almost impossible to get hold of unless you are prepared to pay stupid money on e-bay and the like? This is a particular sore-point with me because I owned most of them (over 200) until they were stolen by two of our local scumbags during a burglary. It later transpired they'd dumped them in the canal because they couldn't sell them. There are so many good books been produced in the past, wouldn't it be worthwhile to see them in reprint?

['CHARD]

Replacement tenders for steam locos, available separately, for those classes that swapped theirs about.

[muddys-blues]

A chip for my head which will make the sausages on the end of my hands do exactly what I want them to.

 

Mmmmm Sausages and chips, I hope I get that for tea tonight.

[PhilJ W]

Modern Image layouts must be crying out for British figures in Indian dress, Chinese take-aways, people with doggy bags picking up the smelly stuff, modern cylists with no bells, mudguards or anything, street cameras galore, Tesco buildings plus Tesco inspired traffic systems with lots of traffic jams, shops with boarded up doors and windows, modern bus shelters for station platforms, boarded up police station, pub acting as Indian warehouse surrounded by pallets, yellow school buses, cars attached to pavements, people with mobile phones attached to ear, poeple pointing mobiles to take photos, pavement people carriers, 40D-cup women, and so on...

On the subject of modern image a few of the more common road vehicles would be welcome especially commercials between the Transit and the 'Heavyweights' as produced by Oxford. A light/medium weight lorry such as the DAF LF would be good.

[MarkSG]

The future - A set of 3D drawings on line that print and paint at home - maybe even print chassis etc in different materials as we the technology develops - Ultimately every model you could every want at the push of a button and a debit of your credit card,. The logical conclusion the end of railway modelling as we know it!

 

I don't think that home 3D printing will affect the mainstream RTR market, at least in the short term. A lot of what makes an RTR model worth buying is the painting and detailing, and that's not something which 3D printing can emulate. In any case, a 3D printer is always going to be a fairly chunky piece of equipment with a relatively specialised application, so it's unlikely ever to become as much a mainstream consumer purchase as, say, an ordinary PC printer.

 

Where I think 3D printing will come into its own is twofold. Firstly, it will make it possible for manufacturers to produce low-volume runs of more esoteric models, since they can go straight from CAD to production without needing to invest in costly moulds. And because the model is produced directly from the original CAD files it can easily be tweaked and altered slightly - for example, to produce different variants of a class - without needing to re-tool the production line. 3D printing is, of course, a much slower method of manufacturing than traditional mould presses, but that won't matter for less popular models - knocking out a few a day will easily satisfy demand. Manufacturers can even offer a "print on demand" service where you place the order, the model gets printed and detailed and then shipped to you when it's ready.

 

The other area where 3D printing has a lot of potential is in the market currently occupied by kits. That may well be bad news for the kit manufacturers themselves, who will face competition from people simply selling the designs which can then be replicated at home. But I think it will be good news for the hobby, because it will vastly expand the number of items available. And it may well help to reverse the tide which is currently moving away from kit-building.

 

Part of the problem with kits at the moment is that they often cost as much as - or even more than - the equivalent RTR product, and then you still have to construct, paint and detail them. That's off-putting to the novice, who doesn't particularly want to spend more money and more time on what will be, at least until they've got the hang of it, an inferior product. 3D printing, though, will change the economic dynamics of kit-building by once again making it considerably cheaper than buying RTR, at least once you've invested in the printer itself. That will encourage people to try it out for the first time, because there's no huge loss, financially, if your first few models are pants. Once you've got the printer itself, you can keep on churning out new parts as often as you want to for only the cost of the plastic, so if it takes you three or four (or five or six) goes to get a particular model right then you haven't really wasted anything except time - and time spent on a hobby you enjoy doing isn't really wasted anyway.

[Pugsley]

In any case, a 3D printer is always going to be a fairly chunky piece of equipment with a relatively specialised application, so it's unlikely ever to become as much a mainstream consumer purchase as, say, an ordinary PC printer.

You could have said that about colour laser printers 10 years ago though. Technology is moving at such a fast pace, it's hard to say what is going to happen with any deal of conviction.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... I have no interest in pre-grouping days, at least not from a modelling angle, a surprisingly large number of them were absorbed into BR stock. Same for coaching and goods stock. The big'un's may be nice but they didn't rule the roost in the day-to-day running...

When it is recalled that the LMS as the 'scrap and build' champion of the grouped companies built perhaps 4,000 locos, of the near 8,000 they handed on to BR, over half of BR's loco stock was pre-group in origin. Despite having a shorter working life significant numbers of pre-group coaches and wagons made it into BR operation and are sorely under-represented in RTR model form.

 

One of my hopes is some 'joined up thinking' to address this: some well chosen subjects that immediately help round out the picture. Tons of LMS design traction, no secondary non-gangwayed coaching stock and a complete desert as far as the LNWR design locomotive survivors are concerned (the slight assuaging of this situation by the LNWR descent of the super D acknowledged) would be one example. There are many more. A small GNR design goods loco like a J6 (the RTR makers seem blind to anything but the LNER and then BR(ER) 'big engine' reputation when it was actually a 'small old engine' operation) to accompany the existing army of large power for the Southern end of the ECML, at present only really relieved by the happy choice of the N2 by Airfix many years ago. And so on...

[A Murphy]

I think r-t-r Broad Gauge in 4mm would be a great opportunity, although possibly of finite appeal. As a general trend and as we are not tied to practicalities in this thread, I'd love to see more early railway stuff, standard and broad gauge. Some stand out "train packs" or whatever - 'Rocket' etc doing duty as the high sellers, as Kings, Duchesses, A3s and 4s do now, backed up by a selection of more widespread items like long boilered 0-6-0s, wagons, coaches. While i doubt these would ever become mass market items, I doubt a LYR 2-4-2 is either, but Bachmann have worked out they can make money on them - more power to their elbows.

 

Alastair

[rodshaw]

You could have said that about colour laser printers 10 years ago though. Technology is moving at such a fast pace, it's hard to say what is going to happen with any deal of conviction.

 

And looking further ahead, 3D printing could well incorporate painting, crests, lining, numbering and the finer detailing as well. In another 50 years' time it might be old hat.