Downendian details

[Phil Bullock]

53 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Hi 37403,

thanks for looking in - no not really - there is normally sufficient  “slop” in the bearings for this not to happen, which has been mostly true of Parkside models- main issue is to make sure the bearings are fully bedded in. If the solebars are too tight, then application of more  polystyrene cement to their inner faces, leave to soften and then they can be encouraged to move to get free spinning wheels. Same trick can be applied to incorrectly bedded bearings. Of course everything must be completely square.

 

The catfish wagons have been the biggest headache - the hopper must be completely square on the chassis structure otherwise it pushes the chassis out of true. I’ve had to remedy three of them because of it.

 

The preformed Cambrian chassis should be perfect, but both on the Herrings and the D1375s on several one axle is slightly stiff, however this was resolved on the Herrings at least by running in.

 

Today a bit of loco action- a long term resident on the workbench - my hybrid Bachmann-Hornby class 24/1 which has been test fit to a new generation Bachmann 24 chassis- some mods needed but good progress I think. I hope to post on this in the next few days. It started life well before the Bachmann model ever saw the light of day. It will be in green full yellow, a much neglected livery in my opinion.
 

Meanwhile the chore of fitting decals to the clayliner rake continues - about 2/3 the way through - takes an age especially lining up the pool numbers. The Hornby ex GWR/LMS 5 plankers have now all been fitted with Lanarkshire buffers as have all the Cambrian D1375s. Some weathering also happening to this rake.

 

Neil 

Sounds like great progress Neil . Not much modelling here today as such a nice day we went out for a walk .,,,

[Downendian]

After a mammoth 2 day session fixing decals (I’m sure my close up vision and dexterity have increased), progress so far on the Clayliner rake. Six D1375s (Cambrian) on the far left, next six Hornby ex GWR/LMS 5 plank opens, with the rest being dia 1/039; 1/044 and 1/045s built from Parkside PC02As. In the process of fitting more Smiths instanters (assembled and fitted two this morning), and the Hornby wagons (which are darker I admit due to spraying over Hornby’s representation of bauxite) need buffers painting and tie bars and vac gear adding which will come from Cambrian bits and wire. Next big task is weathering which I’m going to take time and care over! Some test applications have already been made. Ignore the hunt coupling on one wagon - a test - it will be gone soon.

 

Decals were from CCT, Railtec and modelmaster and I’ve tried to mix up data panels/china clay only as to what would represent a mid 1970s rake. All Paul Bartlett’s photos are from the late 1970s early 1980s when they were on their last legs. Capturing images of how they looked from 1972-7 is a bit more challenging especially in colour.CCT transfers are 1960s style many of which still lingered on into the 1970s before TOPs classifications and data styles were applied en masse.

 

Trialling fitting weight to the PC02As- liquid lead underfloor and a 1M roll of lead flashing turned up yesterday - enough to use on every wagon I’m ever likely to build in five lifetimes. There’s probably far too many wagons for a single rake, and contemplating the sheet-fitted Northbound working 6M55 but will need renumbering to a different pool number and working out how best to fit the sheets. I need to recover from this lot first, and get a trial run with them done.

 

Great to see the forum image placement issues have been sorted!

 

Neil

[JohnH]

Excellent work Neil - all looking very good.

 

I'm working on a much smaller 10 wagon clayliner rake (a trip working to/from St Blazey from my 'mythical' clay dries) and I've experimented with various weathering options.

 

Along with dry brushed acrylics, I've used actual ground up china clay (recovered from the track at Golant...) and, of all things, white poster paint. This works really well and I've managed to improve the texture by adding some talcum powder. The obvious advantage of the poster paint/talc method is that it can be removed easily with water (at a later date) if you're not happy with the results. Once all looks right, a coat of matt varnish seals it in place.

 

Talcum powder is also a great material for weathering around clay dries/loading wharves/etc but try to keep it off the rail heads as it doesn't agree with power collection on my loco's...

[Downendian]

Thanks John -  very useful information - I don’t want to mess up the wagons having put that amount of effort into it.

neil 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Downendian

[cctransuk]

42 minutes ago, JohnH said:

Excellent work Neil - all looking very good.

 

I'm working on a much smaller 10 wagon clayliner rake (a trip working to/from St Blazey from my 'mythical' clay dries) and I've experimented with various weathering options.

 

Along with dry brushed acrylics, I've used actual ground up china clay (recovered from the track at Golant...) and, of all things, white poster paint. This works really well and I've managed to improve the texture by adding some talcum powder. The obvious advantage of the poster paint/talc method is that it can be removed easily with water (at a later date) if you're not happy with the results. Once all looks right, a coat of matt varnish seals it in place.

 

Talcum powder is also a great material for weathering around clay dries/loading wharves/etc but try to keep it off the rail heads as it doesn't agree with power collection on my loco's...

 

Ooooh, really? Hasn't it recently been decided that talcum powder is so dangerous that it must be withdrawn from sale?

 

...... after generations of slathering the stuff into every conceivable orifice of our precious offspring, it is now to be classed as highly dangerous!!

 

What a world we live in ..... !!! 😄

 

CJI.

[Fat Controller]

53 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Ooooh, really? Hasn't it recently been decided that talcum powder is so dangerous that it must be withdrawn from sale?

 

...... after generations of slathering the stuff into every conceivable orifice of our precious offspring, it is now to be classed as highly dangerous!!

 

What a world we live in ..... !!! 😄

 

CJI.

Apparently, asbestos contamination was discovered in it, leading to legal action in the USA.

[JohnH]

18 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Apparently, asbestos contamination was discovered in it, leading to legal action in the USA.

Crikey! I've been using it for years on my china clay based models and also as a release agent when hand casting white metal. Perhaps it's time to change to something else...!

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, JohnH said:

Crikey! I've been using it for years on my china clay based models and also as a release agent when hand casting white metal. Perhaps it's time to change to something else...!

 

I wouldn't worry, I'm using a glue which is known to cause cancer singularly in the state of California, and as I have no plans to do any modelling there I reckon I'm safe.

You only have to look at their political system to realise they haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

Just off round mums for coffee. Completed the vac fitting and associated wires/rods and added Cambrian tie bars to the ex GW five plankers this morning plus painted buffers in primer and all underframe gear on all. Need a coat of grimy black and then on to the weathering once all traces of decalfix have dried. Another 4 Parkside wagons had vac rodding fitted too- all complete except needing to add roller bearings to one wagon- can’t find the box I put them in! 
 

im not the slightest bit worried re using talc, having spent my career handling some noxious chemicals with suitable precautions it’ll be fine. After all i’m only going to brush it on wagons, and not on my Crown Jewels. 
 

Neil 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Downendian

[MJI]

I had health warnings with Zona razor saws.

 

Do not consume.

 

To do with chromium in stainless steel.

 

 

[Phil Bullock]

What a great collection of wagons Neil. Looking forwards to seeing them running ….

[Downendian]

Thanks Phil, if I take responsibility for the instanters and the rake behaves itself, I might seek a permissive working up to Abbotswood 2 and Norton junctions.

Neil 

[Phil Bullock]

12 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Thanks Phil, if I take responsibility for the instanters and the rake behaves itself, I might seek a permissive working up to Abbotswood 2 and Norton junctions.

Neil 

That would be rather nice! Looking forwards to seeing how they perform with prototypical couplings…

[Downendian]

Some weathering has started- still a way to go - but generally a transformation to ex-works wagon. Lead weight added this morning to all the Parkside wagons.

Neil 

[Downendian]

Clayliner rake taking shape nicely. After multiple rounds of weathering powder/acrylic paint applications it’s getting there now. Not satisfied with first applications, too grey/white; too clean/filthy finally getting to a state where each wagon has its own identity. Still odd jobs to do, tie bars need replacing on a couple (Parkside moulded tie bars are very flimsy); Hornby wheels too big (apparent in ride height), Instanter links need adding to a few still. Holding off the Matt varnish application until I’m fairly satisfied with the weathering (never going to be 100%) and they’ve had a test run - should be later this week. It’s also too cold- to risk varnishing - fishing was abandoned yesterday as the lake was totally frozen -8C when we arrived. It’s going to be too long to get all wagons into my passing loop, so some with incorrect solebars (what was I thinking when I did them years ago) will be relegated to needs attention pile. I’ve also put together 2 Parkside vans to go in the rake, they’re awaiting decals. I’ll get better photos with a Western up front.

[MJI]

Those remind me a bit of the clay hoods in finish.

 

Nice.

[Downendian]

Looking into the loco roster for 6V53 - looked at data on the excellent Taunton trains website - only a snapshot for late 1974/5 but was approx 50:50 split between classes 46 and 52 with the occasional 47. I’ll be forced into fitting this code to one of my Bachmann 46s.

 

Date         Time                    loco 

18/7/74.  Not recorded.    D1035

26/7/74.  Not recorded     D1028

27/7/74.   1505.                  46 015

9/8/74.     1158.                  46 016

10/8/74.   1709.                  D1029

11/10/74. Not recorded    46 042 (GD)

15/10/74. Not recorded    D1030

31/12/74. 1310.                  46 007

17/2/75.   1545.                   47 281

 

the Taunton trains website is an excellent resource - I’m gradually adding workings to my spotting notes from 1974-8 and I saw 46 007 at Bristol on that date. I foolishly didn’t record workings, but then I didn’t expect to be using my own observations nearly 50 years later. Amazing what I’d missed though- D1035 - I was there but obviously not in the time frame (I only saw Yeoman working once) and 46 042 which was one of the two 46s I needed to clear at the time. I was also surprised by the wide variety in recorded times met with my memory of it being lunchtime-ish. An amazing number of Westerns worked SW-NE services as well as Cardiff-Penzance lots of codes for my fleet. 
 

I’ve started arranging the 6V53 rake on the layout in prep for a running trial, and check for  fit in one of my passing loops. I put two of my new 10’wb wagons alongside two Bachmann 9’ wb china clay tipplers for a comparison . The difference in size and finesse is immediately apparent (well if my iPad camera was up to it- the Bachmann wagons are on the right!). I’ve still some weathering to modify - it’s taking a fair while to complete but so be it- they have to look right before the varnishing.

 

I’ll be getting rid of my Bachmann wagons in due course.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Downendian

[Enterprisingwestern]

I now standardise on 1.2mm brass angle to replace plastic tiebars, especially the flimsy ones

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

Somewhat foolhardy I suspect, but I’ve decided to move several wagons (1/039 and 1/044) from pool 7409 to form the northbound St Blazey-Stoke 6M55 complete with sheets. Therefore I need more clay wagons- three started yesterday - again Cambrian D1375 ex SR/LNER. The start of the build shown - schoolboy error forgot to attach tie bars and roller bearing axle boxes before priming the chassis, now rectified. Weight of course can be added under the sheet this time so no more faffing with underfloor stuff. I’ll want some more ex GWR five plankers as these were common in such rakes, but can’t see a suitable Parkside/Cambrian kit although Parkside pC564 looks remarkably similar to Paul Bartlett’s photos of the prototypes except a brake gear change and new wheels will be necessary. I’ll give the crepe/tissue paper over a cling filmed wagon method a go. Old fishing line of course will be used for ties. Another vanwide had escaped within the large rountuit kit pile- nailed it! 

With much  WhatsApp discussion between myself and Phil Bullock this last week with the news that Kernow were supplying D6XX spares. One of our long term aims was to produce a class 22 with those ugly headcode boxes applied before Swindon standardised the headcodes so that they were internalised in the cab front end. D6XX headcode boxes are a perfect match for these locos (from memory applied To D6302/06/07/17/24 and D6326 -thanks Halvarras my memory was a tad out, see below) D6324/6 had the standard panels applied later, but Phil found an excellent shot of D6324 at St Blazey with small yellow panels and the pig-ugly boxes. D6307 was another candidate as it carried them till the bitter end, but would necessitate a respray as the yellow panel was reduced in height. So D6324 it will be- headcode boxes applied one end and a start made on the numerous front end ironmongery changes  - lamp brackets removed and superfluous marker lights filled with plastic rod. I’m building up the courage to scribe the folds in the doors- another error Dapol made with the disc fitted locos- they all had folding nose doors (as below no they didn’t!). A disc headcode fitted Dapol model was the donor. 7C39 was a Stoke Gifford - Tavistock service normally using a Western or D8XX but they were often so short a type 2 was not impossible. The headcode boxes required removing from the inside the existing headcode - I used T-cut and a lot of patience. New codes were precision labels products. Now to find a suitable Northbound working. Laira type 2s were not uncommon in Bristol so I think I can get away with it.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Downendian
Correct info re prototype

[Phil Bullock]

Great to see you have started Neil …. Ahead of me there! The further I delve in to these locos the murkier it gets! 
 

Looking in Flickr at D6332 she had plain doors when she was built with discs and up until Brush Veterans lovely photo of her at 81A in 1966 in GSYP but still with plain doors. Looks like she acquired the bifold ones when she got headcodes.

 

But a similar Flickr trawl for D6324 shows she had bifolds whilst fitted with discs … whereas D6320 had plain doors with discs and looks like she acquired bifolds with headcode boxes. Looks like a total lack of consistency! 
 

Which is leading me to question my starting point … a disc fitted body shell which will require mods to give bifold doors, like your good self …. Or a headcode fitted body shell , which will lack the characteristic oval horn grilled and may need work to fill the later fit headcode boxes …. 
 

So back to layout work , this one is on the back burner for the moment here. Cowardly I know… 

[MJI]

There does seem to be a shortage of models of 5 1/2 plank wagons of GWR ancestry BR 1/032 GWR O37 O39 O42.

 

I do like your ex LNER and SR ones.

 

Can't find the book at present, but may try to draw this one up for 3D printing the body. Or get a boy to do it.

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, Downendian said:

Somewhat foolhardy I suspect, but I’ve decided to move several wagons (1/039 and 1/044) from pool 7409 to form the northbound St Blazey-Stoke 6M55 complete with sheets. Therefore I need more clay wagons- three started yesterday - again Cambrian D1375 ex SR/LNER. The start of the build shown - schoolboy error forgot to attach tie bars and roller bearing axle boxes before priming the chassis, now rectified. Weight of course can be added under the sheet this time so no more faffing with underfloor stuff. I’ll want some more ex GWR five plankers as these were common in such rakes, but can’t see a suitable Parkside/Cambrian kit although Parkside pC564 looks remarkably similar to Paul Bartlett’s photos of the prototypes except a brake gear change and new wheels will be necessary. I’ll give the crepe/tissue paper over a cling filmed wagon method a go. Old fishing line of course will be used for ties. Another vanwide had escaped within the large rountuit kit pile- nailed it! 

With much  WhatsApp discussion between myself and Phil Bullock this last week with the news that Kernow were supplying D6XX spares. One of our long term aims was to produce a class 22 with those ugly headcode boxes applied before Swindon standardised the headcodes so that they were internalised in the cab front end. D6XX headcode boxes are a perfect match for these locos (from memory applied To D6303/07/17/24 and D6326). D6324/6 had the standard panels applied later, but Phil found and excellent shot of D6324 at St Blazey with small yellow panels and the pig-ugly boxes. D6307 was another candidate as it carried them till the bitter end, but would necessitate a respray as the yellow panel was reduced in height. So D6324 it will be- headcode boxes applied one end and a start made on the numerous front end ironmongery changes  - lamp brackets removed and superfluous marker lights filled with plastic rod. I’m building up the courage to scribe the folds in the doors- another error Dapol made with the disc fitted locos- they all had folding nose doors. A disc headcode fitted Dapol model was the donor. 7C39 was a Stoke Gifford - Tavistock service normally using a Western or D8XX but they were often so short a type 2 was not impossible. The headcode boxes required removing from the inside the existing headcode - I used T-cut and a lot of patience. New codes were precision labels products. Now to find a suitable Northbound working. Laira type 2s were not uncommon in Bristol so I think I can get away with it.

 

A good use for these newly-available Kernow headcode boxes, that hadn't occurred to me!

25 years ago I reproduced D6307 (a loco I was sick of the sight of in the years up to 1971) using the Hornby 29/A1 conversion kit combo, I didn't like the shape of the etched headcode panels so, since I was making my own and painting the entire thing, might as well do this one - having realised it wasn't an irritation after all but an old friend! These protruding boxes were fitted to D6302/6/7/17/24/26 - D6302/24/26 were later modified to the flush type, D6302 on acquiring blue full yellow in May 1967 (almost a waste of time then, but at least it lasted 5 months longer than D600....) D6302/24 were damaged in a derailment in January 1961 while running in tandem, repairs that year gave them the first headcode boxes and they were the only ones so fitted until late 64/early 65. D6302 had gained oversized yellow panels by August 1962 but D6324 avoided these for a while longer.

 

Not sure where the notion that the disc headcode Class 22s all had bi-folding gangway doors came from, all 58 were built with plain doors and the bi-folding type were fitted during headcode conversions to D6300/02-33, no exceptions AFAIK (ignoring one end of D6323 in September 1964........ 😉!)

 

I would only have expected Laira Type 2s to appear at Bristol during trips to and from Swindon Works. I don't even recall seeing any at Exeter during spotting trips there in the late 1960s, any which made it over the Devon banks (presumably not otherwise required for Cornish china clay duties) were usually pilot engines which came off at Newton Abbot.

 

I also didn't like the A1 etched nose doors so on D6307 and D6322 I scribed in the bi-fold doors with the hinges down the middle of each door represented by thin plastic rod inlayed into the groove. I still have both, but no photos to hand at the moment.......

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

A good use for these newly-available Kernow headcode boxes, that hadn't occurred to me!

25 years ago I reproduced D6307 (a loco I was sick of the sight of in the years up to 1971) using the Hornby 29/A1 conversion kit combo, I didn't like the shape of the etched headcode panels so, since I was making my own and painting the entire thing, might as well do this one - having realised it wasn't an irritation after all but an old friend! These protruding boxes were fitted to D6302/6/7/17/24/26 - D6302/24/26 were later modified to the flush type, D6302 on acquiring blue full yellow in May 1967 (almost a waste of time then, but at least it lasted 5 months longer than D600....) D6302/24 were damaged in a derailment in January 1961 while running in tandem, repairs that year gave them the first headcode boxes and they were the only ones so fitted until late 64/early 65. D6302 had gained oversized yellow panels by August 1962 but D6324 avoided these for a while longer.

 

Not sure where the notion that the disc headcode Class 22s all had bi-folding gangway doors came from, all 58 were built with plain doors and the bi-folding type were fitted during headcode conversions to D6300/02-33, no exceptions AFAIK (ignoring one end of D6323 in September 1964........ 😉!)

 

I would only have expected Laira Type 2s to appear at Bristol during trips to and from Swindon Works. I don't even recall seeing any at Exeter during spotting trips there in the late 1960s, any which made it over the Devon banks (presumably not otherwise required for Cornish china clay duties) were usually pilot engines which came off at Newton Abbot.

 

I also didn't like the A1 etched nose doors so on D6307 and D6322 I scribed in the bi-fold doors with the hinges down the middle of each door represented by thin plastic rod inlayed into the groove. I still have both, but no photos to hand at the moment.......

Looks like I am guilty of promoting a myth then. Apologies all round, thanks for correcting @Halvarras

[Downendian]

Great post Halvarras - indeed D6302 (not D6303 as I originally stated) had them, I’d missed D6306 - I’ll edit my post as I don’t like leaving incorrect info on the web! 
unfortunately I have little memory of class 22s, they’d gone before I started spotting, but I’m fairly certain they were on Bason bridge milks that I used to see when visiting Highbridge. I take your point re Dainton and Rattery banks, but LA class 25s were visitors to Bristol occasionally later in the 1970s- that’s my excuse anyway.

neil 

[Downendian]

4 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Looks like I am guilty of promoting a myth then. Apologies all round, thanks for correcting @Halvarras

Not you Phil - it was me! Amended my post above.