bmthtrains - David Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Hi Ian, I've been waiting for the ATM bogie problem to be resolved before doing any more. Thankfully they are now available once again, so I'm going to order a batch in and then all my designs will be available with wheeling packs again. I am unlikely to get any new ones drawn up until the summer, my 'other' modelmaking is taking up all my time, but once the summer break arrives, I have a few more up my sleeve to design... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 The ATM bogie production problem has now been resolved, and I've been updating my website today now that they are back in stock. I have added in the HOBC - a design I did purely for myself, never imagining anyone else would want to fork out £210 on one, but its been asked for quite a bit. This got me thinking as the barrier for 3D printing has always been the cost, coming down slowly, but we are still a few years away from them being at a generally acceptable price. What has happened though, in the meantime, is a dramatic increase in the cost of RTR models, and I am pretty sure this is behind the recent upsurge in orders I have had. Looking back just 12 months, the price difference is incredible - a 2-car Class 158 from Farish now has an RRP of £145, making it more expensive than a lot of the 3D prints out there. Yes, there is a 'kit' element to prints, but if you look at something like the spectacular MPV designed by the N Gauge Forum, at a similar price point, I know which I'd rather fork out for. Could this be the turning point for 3D printed rolling stock? Prices may still be high, but unexpectedly, RTR prices are now even higher... David 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted May 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) David I think you are on the right track. 3D printing quality is getting better so it won't be long before the finish is as good as injection moulding added to the one off ordering and if a particular prototype has numerous variants for different owners/ operators then with a bit of tweaking by the designer you you can end up with more accurate models albeit albeit with more preparation and building, just like the MPVs as they have designed the kit to be modular for different variants Even the simple CAD for the carriage siding lights that you very kindly did for me saved many hours of work that would still have ended up with a far inferior outcome is just proving the point and in that that case far cheaper than they could be cast or other means produced. Edited May 15, 2014 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Hi Ian, What's interesting is that because I sell my prints, I leave them 'as made' from the machine with no post-processing so anyone buying them understands exactly what they are getting. If you actually take some time and sand and fill the surface where needed, the finish can be incredible. The third years on my Uni course have just past their end of year deadline, and a couple have done some 3D printing - one in particular is an incredible figure of David Bowman's spacesuit from 2001: A Space Odyssey (to be used at a book launch). The quality is there if you are willing to put in a little extra effort. Unfortunately, a lot of model railway hobbyists want them perfect from the box...though these price increases I think are starting to change this. Hmm...I can see an essay for next year forming... David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The ATM bogie production problem has now been resolved, and I've been updating my website today now that they are back in stock. I have added in the HOBC - a design I did purely for myself, never imagining anyone else would want to fork out £210 on one, but its been asked for quite a bit. This got me thinking as the barrier for 3D printing has always been the cost, coming down slowly, but we are still a few years away from them being at a generally acceptable price. What has happened though, in the meantime, is a dramatic increase in the cost of RTR models, and I am pretty sure this is behind the recent upsurge in orders I have had. Looking back just 12 months, the price difference is incredible - a 2-car Class 158 from Farish now has an RRP of £145, making it more expensive than a lot of the 3D prints out there. Yes, there is a 'kit' element to prints, but if you look at something like the spectacular MPV designed by the N Gauge Forum, at a similar price point, I know which I'd rather fork out for. Could this be the turning point for 3D printed rolling stock? Prices may still be high, but unexpectedly, RTR prices are now even higher... David DSCF0567.JPG DSCF0571.JPG As it happens David, I was thinking the exact thing earlier, I had been putting the Biomass on the back burner because I estimated it to be about £40 for a complete kit. I then discover that a similar(ish) size wagon (Polybulk) now has an RRP of £54.95 I am beginning to wonder whether these kits will start to become a viable option. Suddenly my cranes starts too look far more justifiable too. It will be interesting to see how things pan out. Regards, Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted May 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 15, 2014 I find that each time I get a new print I need to do less work on it to the previous one but yes they do need some preparation. However I find it a lot easier than working with brass kits. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted May 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2014 Unfortunately, a lot of model railway hobbyists want them perfect from the box...though these price increases I think are starting to change this. Hi Not perfect but I would expect the finish to be on a par with resin and from the prints I've seen so far it's not there for me. It's also difficult to sand something to a reasonable finish without destroying a lot of the detailing. 3D printing is an excellent idea for prototyping but as far as I am concerned not good enough yet for production. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It's only a pricing question. The high end commercial machines are producing stuff you can't easily tell from injection moulding in smoothness. It's just at the moment they are too expensive for production runs. Tech problem is solved though, just a case of costs dropping. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It's only a pricing question. The high end commercial machines are producing stuff you can't easily tell from injection moulding in smoothness. It's just at the moment they are too expensive for production runs. Tech problem is solved though, just a case of costs dropping. Alan I had some so called high end prints done 2 van bodie to fit the NGS stove R so not big, with postage and VAT they cost £162. One side was brilliant the other was just better than shapeways. The advantage of shapeways is that I know I can polish up both sides to the same standard, but with the high end prints I stood no chance of getting both sides to match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 If one side looked like shapeways it wasn't high end - at least in machine terms - what machine where they using ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Hi Alan perhaps I am being a little harsh just not as good as I expected, the machine was Projet EX200 3D model/s in XHD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Current state of the art is probably the Envision Tech machines (or was recently - it may well have been beaten 8)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 I get a lot of requests for my prints in different scales - N 1:160 and HO scale probably the most, but also OO and even O (imagine the cost!). As part of my degree I'm probably going to look at producing a super detailed kit that includes 3D printed, laser cut, and etched parts, and in a larger scale. Which of my prints so far would everyone be most interested in being produced in OO? Remember the price will be high, so it's going to be a unique and stand-out addition to anyone's layout, so I'm thinking more tamper than ballast wagon - it's got to be something special to justify the print costs. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I think that the Komatsu PW150 road-rail excavator could be a winner in OO gauge. Not too costly, nice and compact and an excellent detail piece for more recent layouts. The IQA, depending on costs, is another unusual item that I'm sure would be welcomed by OO modellers. Edited June 10, 2014 by 69843 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty11 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 The tamper, the IQA flask and the Kirow crane would certainly shift! Wouldn't be too expensive and would be enormous fun and a great edition! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
virginhst539 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I do like the sound of oo gauge prints but looking at some existing oo gauge wagons are about £50. maybe the best way at least till costs come down is to split it down to different parts for example with the crane support wagon, chassis, boxes, bogies and smaller details allowing people to buy one part work on it and get the next work on it. it would bring the cost down by splitting it down in to different component parts making it more affordable for the majority. another bonus would be if you made a mess of it you don't need to buy the entire print again. either way in the end till costs come down it will be expensive even if you did split the parts but I would be more than happy to pay for such items as lets be honest when will the likes of Bachmann bring modern tampers and engineers wagons out. it took long enough to get the flask wagon so I for one am not holding out much hope Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 maybe the best way at least till costs come down is to split it down to different parts for example with the crane support wagon, chassis, boxes, bogies and smaller details allowing people to buy one part work on it and get the next work on it. it would bring the cost down by splitting it down in to different component parts making it more affordable for the majority. Problem with doing that is the €5 flat starting rate that you have to pay for each file. By having everything in 1 file = 1 start fee = €5, so 4 files = 4 start fees = €20 that is almost a third of the cost of the N gauge Kirow crane. I decided to put multiple wagons that I had done, in to one file, just to save on this starting cost. Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 The cost and access to 3D printing will change radically in a few years thanks to new technological advances. I was playing with a 3D doodle pen the other day - yes, it's a pen that you hold and draw in 3 dimensions, creating a physical object... http://the3doodler.com Then there is of course the rather mind boggling lightfield camera. Take three photos of a real steam engine say, and when you get home you have an instant 3D computer model available to be printed, with no need for any CAD skills. For those not in the know, these cameras capture the complete set of light field data within a scene, recording all the light rays rather than just the ones you see (if that makes sense). This allows you to refocus the image after you have taken it, and also move the position of the camera after you have taken it. It is a bit like the bullet time technique used in the Matrix, but far simpler. If you take 3 shots of something from different angles, you are actually able to move the shot to anywhere between where the camera actually was, so you have a full 3D record of the scene. This kind of advance helps move 3D printing into the consumer, rather than hobbyist realm. Once you can make a print with the same ease you can print a photo with a USB stick and a supermarket print machines, prices will fall dramatically. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Looks like in the not too distant future youcan use one of those cameras and if it has builit in 4G, you could send the photos to your 3D printer and have it print it before you get home!! Star Trek Replicators cant be too far off now. Edited June 17, 2014 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 And if you want to make sure you get it the right colour, one of these is quite handy... http://www.getscribblepen.com David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 And if you want to make sure you get it the right colour, one of these is quite handy... http://www.getscribblepen.com David Finally an end to all those 'It's the wrong colour' arguments! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abwx Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I stumbled onto this thread yesterday & ended up reading the entire thing, stumbling off to bed well after my bedtime. Wonderful stuff. One (of many) things that stuck in my mind was a reference to cleaning FUD making it frostier. This morning I started wondering what would happen if after cleaning, you coated (areas) with clear gloss, possibly with some mechanical polishing first. Would that create sufficient transparency to pass for glazing? You could then mask windows (or entire window areas) and paint, remove mask, apply laser cut windows surrounds (or multiple window strips), and possibly have near-flush glazed windows with less overall effort, or better results, or both. Might be worth some experimentation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 All gone quiet here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If I remember correctly, It's because david has been doing a uni course so it is taking up a fair amount of modelling time. Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Quite correct. All the designs are selling very well, however I've not had the time to add any more. Hopefully over the summer this will change. Been far too busy making 'real' models ;-) David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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