RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hello David This might be a potential chassis: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorized-Chassis-12-meter-Tomytec-TM-03-N-scale-/121050007664?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c2f248870 It appears that only one of the bogies is powered, and the body could be designed at the CAD stage to accommodate. It appears to be supplied with cosmetic bogie frames too though it's hard to see if any resemble those on the Plasser. However, the available bogie frames could be stuck to the sides. Another candidate might be this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-Train-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-3-Bandai-N-scale-/360501492130?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53ef9039a2 It has a very low profile, and with one bogie removed and one end trimmed back may be suitable for your single unit tamper. Of course, only one powered bogie might not provide a lot of traction, however with plenty of weight above it I think it would be enough. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Funny you should mention those chassis Ben... These are the slightly longer versions, and I'm using these on the rail grinder. I've cut away the sides where the open platform will sit, and tweaked the CAD bodyshell so the fit is exact. I've now sent the bodies to print, as well as the cab interior plates I've designed with chairs etc. These are only powered on one bogie as you say, so it wouldn't take much effort to just cut them down to create a single motor bogie. For the next CAD project though, I'm thinking of something a bit bigger, and although not an exact fit around the gap under the central spine, I think this 158 chassis can be used as a basis for this grinder. Alternatively, the chassis I've used above just cut into two halves would work pretty well. Challenge on this will be the second vehicle that is attached on the left - it only has one bogie so is going to need to be coupled to the main vehicle in a way that stops it tipping over. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Right, another hour's work this evening, and the Tamper is ready for a test print. There are separate bogie plates that will fit into the underside of the bodyshell. David tamper graphic.jpg David, this seems to be a mix of two different generations of tamper: the early '70s style, as later fitted with a roof http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p994952648/h3C39295E#h3c39295e and the late '70s style which had the roof from new: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13706945@N00/6535305029/ . Might be better to make it one or the other. For tampers you generally need very short bogies, like the Kato 11 106 shorty http://www.osbornsmodels.com/kato-11-106-shorty-chassis-4078-p.asp Edited January 23, 2013 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hi Bernard, yes it's a bit of a mix. As a test and as a scenic item (poking out of a shed), I'm happy with the impression it gives even though not accurate. I did wonder what the hobbytrain tamper was based on originally actually - it doesn't have the roof, but even looking at European examples, I can't see a tamper that matches it, so I presume they kind of made it up as well... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hi Bernard, yes it's a bit of a mix. As a test and as a scenic item (poking out of a shed), I'm happy with the impression it gives even though not accurate. I did wonder what the hobbytrain tamper was based on originally actually - it doesn't have the roof, but even looking at European examples, I can't see a tamper that matches it, so I presume they kind of made it up as well... David From the pictures I've seen of the Hobby Train tamper Near same as Lilliput/ Bachmann HO model? ) appears to be an earlier series 07. Series 3 at least had a roof, as did 4 & 5. The Lilliput/ Bachmann are wrongly lettered as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 I've had a first pass on an 09-3X-D-RT Tamper, only on the front vehicle so far. To fit a motor in, I've altered the design slightly from the prototype by adding side doors behind the cab rather than an open platform. If I can find a better way, I will remove them, but its a working idea at the moment. I may need to slow down on making these designs, as Its far to tempting to order the prints! With the dummy Tamper on its way (£30), and the Rail Grinder costing a whopping £90 for the prints and £30 for the chassis, this is an expensive area of the hobby I've drifted into... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Hi David For the issue of the articulating section of the larger tamper, I imagine the protoype has a fairly rigid coupling between master and slave unit that prevents any twisting movement. I think in model form, the best solution might be to consider the vehicle as articulated about the centre bogie; and incorporate a pivot hole on a tongue that projects from the slave unit into the master to provide lateral stability. I am surprised the Grinder bodies are £45 each, when your Pendolino vehicles are considerably larger, but cheaper. Is there more to them than meets the eye? I am certainly interested in acquiring a grinder unit myself - you've done a superb job! cheers Ben A. Edited January 24, 2013 by Ben A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) I am also interested in having a grinder even if non powered to sitting the sidings on Banbury. Ian Edited January 24, 2013 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks guys. I'm going to have a go at the pivot design this afternoon - first using some card and a couple of wagons to work out how far the pivot arm needs to stick out! The cost increase mostly comes from switching materials - SWF turned out to he the best option for the Pendolino cars as the sides are smooth so sanding down for a nice finish was acceptable. The Grinder however has a lot of fine detail and so I've ordered this in UFD, which is about 3 times the cost. There is also a bit more material in the grinder - just adding a couple of internal walls for the open platform behind the cab adds a good percentage increase to the overal volume of material used. There is also an internal plate to go into the cab with seating and a console. I think once I've successfully made the grinder pair, I'll look at uploading several versions to Shapeways - the one I've used to fit a specific kato chassis (the rear wall of the cab has been pushed back 2mm to accommodate the motor, so isn't as accurate to the prototype as my first draft), then one that bit closer to scale (that said, I'm working from photographs!), and then one with some of the ultra detail removed (mirrors etc), that could be printed in a cheaper material. If anyone wants them, they can then decide which. I must admit to being a bit nervous about the idea of other people ordering my designs - they're not 100% scale models, and those in the know would probably scorn me for my inaccuracies, so I'm keen to mange expectations - sit these next to a scale plan and there will be many errors and compromises, but to my eye, they look close enough to prototypes we are very unlikely to ever see in RTR form. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) ]I'm hoping someone can check my calculations here - I've drawn the pivot leaving a 4mm gap between vehicles, and then rotated them to the maximum clearance. I've then plotted what a 9inch radius curve perpendicular to the pivot would appear as, and so hopefully proving that at the maximum clearance, the swing is more than sufficient to get round even the tightest of curves on a layout? It gives a 33 degree turning angle. David Edited January 24, 2013 by bmthtrains - David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Hi David, Sorry I am not really much use in the calculations checking department. However I thought I would provide you with a bit of info on this chassis which I have used quite effectively in a project where I needed the length to be altered. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powered-Motorized-Chassis-Kato-11-105-/200874394995?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ec50c0573 Only one bogie is powered and the other one could be easily extended (or even removed and used as a separate component). I soldered wires from the existing pickups to the pickups on the bogie to get the maximum reliability. It is very lightweight. It is also very simple in design so it is easy to take apart and reassemble. The size is small so it can fit into tight spaces. The downside is that the bogies have detailing on the sides which may not be what you want for this project. Keep up the good work. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted January 24, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2013 Is 3d printing the best medium for something like the rail grinder or tamper? For complex curves like the Pendolino it has clear advantages over other methors. For something simpler like the tamper & grinder would it not be better (& less expensive!) to use the 3d printed parts for things like the roof and tamping/grinding gear and scratch build the body from plasticard? Happy modelling. Steven B, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Is 3d printing the best medium for something like the rail grinder or tamper? For complex curves like the Pendolino it has clear advantages over other methors. For something simpler like the tamper & grinder would it not be better (& less expensive!) to use the 3d printed parts for things like the roof and tamping/grinding gear and scratch build the body from plasticard? Happy modelling. Steven B, In the 2012 scratch build competition a modeler has used a laser cutter to make components for an 08 tamper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Is 3d printing the best medium for something like the rail grinder or tamper? For complex curves like the Pendolino it has clear advantages over other methors. For something simpler like the tamper & grinder would it not be better (& less expensive!) to use the 3d printed parts for things like the roof and tamping/grinding gear and scratch build the body from plasticard? Happy modelling. Steven B, Hi Steven, that assumes I have the skills to be able to build these out of plasticard in the first place! It most certainly would be cheaper to build using traditional methods, but I would never be able to work to the fine tolerances needed to create a 'manual' model of an equal standard to what I can produce using CAD (my hands can't hold pens/knives very well), plus given the ability to evolve your design as you go and make changes, and being able to mass-produce, its enabling me to build things I never could have even contemplated. I'm someone who has always been frustrated that my ideas and design skills were never matched by my construction skills, so 3D printing is ideal for me. I can see such 'digital' modelling might not be for everyone, especially if they could do the same much cheaper using other means, but as to whether it is the best medium - its a moot point really, as with any modelling, the best medium is that which enables the creator to best realise their designs with the skills they have. (And besides, its terribly good fun ) David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 It most certainly would be cheaper to build using traditional methods, but I would never be able to work to the fine tolerances needed to create a 'manual' model of an equal standard to what I can produce using CAD (my hands can't hold pens/knives very well), plus given the ability to evolve your design as you go and make changes, and being able to mass-produce, its enabling me to build things I never could have even contemplated.As mentioned above, though, you could get your flat plastic parts laser cut and then all you'd have to do would be to stick them together. Don't get stuck on 3D printing being the perfect solution to all problems - there are other ways of designing your parts on a computer and getting them turned into something physical. I totally agree with the fun part! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Oh quite, the laser cutting I did for the Pendoino glazing was excellent, and I'd like to have a go at making some laser cut kits up of things like electricity pylons etc, but for now 3D printing is my area to explore! I've started on the tamping equipment on the 09 Tamper, this will be printed as a separate item for ease of painting. This is how its looking thus far. David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hello David All continuing to look very good. Might it be better to put the pivot in the main unit, and the tongue on the slave? This might reduce overhang on tight curves. I have also been thinking about glazing. I know that with the Pendolino you had glazing units laser cut. I suspect you may not wish to go to such extremes with this model. However, would it be possible to add to the body "snap off" templates that would allow glazing parts to be cut accurately from thin clear plastic? Also, can I just reassure you that from what we have seen this model looks very fine indeed. Yes, it may have some dimensional compromises but so do all models, and anyway you have been open with your concerns and your techniques so caveat emptor. In any event, it is certainly a whole lot better than I could scratchbuild! cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks Ben, I've put the pivot on the Slave unit as my thinking was that as the slave only has one bogie at the other end, the pin of the pivot will slot down into the tongue cantilevered out from the master unit. That way it should hold level. Of course, I will have to make sure the pivot and tongue meet at the same exact height as the bogie on the other end or it will be at a slope! For glazing on these models, I'm going to try fixing printed ohp accetate on the front surface. Looking at the prototype, the window surround has a slight raised bevelling and sticks slightly proud of the outer face, so with the black surround printed, it should look okay. Photo below. The alternative method would be to indent around the window edge so that acetate can be slotted into the gap, thus seeming to be flush with the surface. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Great looking renditions whichever way you decide to proceed. Have a soft spot for OTP having worked on them for a few years, still doing a little bit in preservation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Back to the Pendolino briefly now, as the layout was down this afternoon to run in my gorgeous blue Pullman that arrived courtesy of my parents (my birthday tomorrow), and I also gave the 390 a good run too... David 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Having torn myself away from staring at the Pullman, I've carried on with the 09 tamper, and have modelled the slave unit, and the pivot attachment. Next up is carefully measuring the motorised bogies I will be using and matching them to dummy ones, the tamper has an extra, small bogie under the red tamping unit. After this, there is a lot of underside detail that I need to a) decide what can be modelled without fouling the bogies, and b ) decide which bits to model in 3D, and which to add in after using plasticard etc. I've got a lot of old pipes and tubes etc that can be used for this. Buffers will be added separately as the bufferbeams will need decals attached first to represent the hazard stripes. David 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Looking at picture above with model adjacent to drawing I would suggest that the bogie resembles that of an earlier machine. 1.5m wheelbase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Waiting for the 3D prints of the rail grinder and dummy tamper to arrive (tamper due tomorrow), I decided I wanted to make a display base for them to sit on. With those 'corner of an airfield' bases you see aircraft kits displayed on in mind, a few bits of spare track, some Shapeways textures and a rummage in my bits box, and I came up with this. Very simple, low detail, and really just to act as a background for the models to sit on for photographs. Look out for updates on the (not quite prototypical) dummy tamper test over the weekend. I'm intrigued to see whether all the fine detail around the tamping equipment has come out. David Edited January 30, 2013 by bmthtrains - David 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Waiting for the 3D prints of the rail grinder and dummy tamper to arrive (tamper due tomorrow), I decided I wanted to make a display base for them to sit on. With those 'corner of an airfield' bases you see aircraft kits displayed on in mind, a few bits of spare track, some Shapeways textures and a rummage in my bits box, and I came up with this. Very simple, low detail, and really just to act as a background for the models to sit on for photographs. Look out for updates on the (not quite prototypical) dummy tamper test over the weekend. I'm intrigued to see whether all the fine detail around the tamping equipment has come out. David image.jpg image.jpg Looks great David!! Looking forward to seeing your new projects displayed on it! Love the Farish Midland Pullman lurking in the background of both your pictures!! Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) David, Re, Pendolino I am surprised at this scale that Shapeways cannot do a better print for you.Have they made suggestions for a better finish? FUD at 4mm comes out fine, with very few problems, if any. Noel Edited February 1, 2013 by Dazzler Fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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