Waverley Route new image links and discussion

['CHARD]

Some time last year, we discussed Class 25s on The Route. Someone on YouTube claims the first part of this sequence, a mere 14 seconds, is of the Waverley. What's not in doubt is that there's a pair of GSYP late body style 25s at the head of this train. What's certainly untrue is their initial premise that it's Heriot, so much so that I discarded it as being some other part of the world entirely. However, in the comments someone mentions Longtown. I'm not too sure about any of this; the layout looks plausibly like the Mossband chord - as though it were shot from across the Esk - but the train looks like sheeted anhydrate hoppers, or something else unfamiliar. Anyone else like to take a punt?*

 

* not out on the Esk, that would be ludicrous

['CHARD]

Try these Galashiels stills at 0:27, 1:16, 1:39 and 2:46.

 

The remainder is classic local newspaper footage, and particularly good if you're a fan of municipal fountains

 

027 An A3? seen entering Gala from the north, taken from the island platform - a view I've not seen.

116 A crash of some description, not previously heard of.

139 The Ladhope cutting collapse, I assume.

246 Main line near Selkirk Jct? or north of the town?

[Guest Max Stafford]

I'm thinking from the curve and the pylon that this is round about the Eden viaduct just past Canal Junction. Some point to point freight used the ex-NE goods line across the city rather than the Goods Committee line behind Citadel Station. If this is indeed the case, this train might not be Waverley bound as it could be the Larbert soda ash which normally went up the Caley as far as I know. Access to Kingmoor yard via the NE route was possible via Stainton Junction.

 

Dave.

['CHARD]

I'll happily go with that; the pylon, industrial unit, wagons and passing speed made me uneasy about Longtown. The traction is 65A's in all likelihood.

 

By odd coincidence I was looking at Google satellite of Stainton Jct earlier, and the Caley chord can be clearly be made out, overgrown and cut back at the Kingmoor PB end, but largely extant nonetheless.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Stainton Junction is still an active bit of railway, 'Chard. At least twice a week (during better economic times it was daily), the metals from here to Brunthill are polished by a Gronk plus four Cargowaggons. I still annoy my friends by referring to this as 1S64 in and 1M88 back. One day, I'm going to stick a 'Waverley' headboard on it!

 

Dave.

['CHARD]

I knew it was technically 'live,' but had no idea the Brunthill target was so frequent, that's great! The run-round at Stainton is still as long as I can make out from the published plans of the time it was opened, or so it appears. One thing I never sussed, is how the outgoing '60s inter-yard freights were dispatched. One assumes the train engine(s) tailed the consist to Stainton, and the pilot then returned back into Kingmoor after 4Sxx set out on the down main. I assume the reason for brake vans at both ends of the Class 4s was also in connection with the dispatching routine at Kingmoor.

[Guest Max Stafford]

You've kind of got it 'Chard. I've seen 1965 footage that shows a V2 dragging its train round the switchback from the yard (tender first). Upon reaching the loop at Stainton junction, V2 runs round to the northernmost end and once coupled up, pulls for all its life until it drops off Whitrope into the tunnel. B) Well, that was the theory anyway and the reversal is the reason that Northbound freights have two brake vans on the Waverley.

 

Dave.

['CHARD]

Just found this on Derby Sulzers, should be of interest to 64B-Boy, it certainly is to me, as both locos are already on the roster:

 

"1967

On March 24th the 20.05 Luton - Bathgate car carrier, normally a Type 4 diagram found D7508 & D5233 working the trip throughout, returning south the next day on the 06.40 Millerhill - Carlisle freight."

 

That's 7508 of 64B and 5233 of D16. By this time, I seem to recall 5233 is wearing BFYE too. Awesome.

['CHARD]

The Baby Sulzer is likely to be D5307 (or possibly 5317) Bruce, don't ask by what witchcraft I know this to be the case. Okay, it's the oval buffers and primary suspension (leaf not coil). That particular working seems to have been a popular subject from that vantage point, and the lower numbers seemed to make their home on the line for a year or two.

 

The blue centre-panel Peak on Carflats is a contender for the most exciting picture I've seen this year. It combines so many elusive subjects in one image: the loco, a southbound empty car train AND Lochpark into the bargain, where a new chain-link fence looks to have gone in. Incredible. I wonder if any of our Peak livery afficianados see this, can anyone hazard a guess to her identity...?

 

And there was I persuading myself that I could restrict my Peak fleet - oh, and keep the Carflat programme down to half a dozen. No, I think is the answer to that.

 

I love the anecdote about the guy rooming at Kershopefoot, the train his landlady saw must've been 30+ bogies long at 4 cars per wagon. That would have been some sight! The Black 5 and A4 are at Hassendean aren't they, I've never been to Belses but that station they're running through looks like the former to me, landscape-wise.

[62440]

I saw you had mentioned the north end of Hawick in a post, I meant to include this with the earlier post. D27

 

Bruce

[LNERGE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8546096.stm

 

I wish it every success.

['CHARD]

http://news.bbc.co.u...and/8546096.stm

 

I wish it every success.

 

That's been given a sister thread, here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/10810-its-official-apparently/page__pid__94712__st__0&?do=findComment&comment=94712

but as it's not immediately apparent what it's about, I've asked the OP to amend the title.

 

But great news, no doubt about that. Gonna make a pilgrimage later this month, it's a given

[Jamie]

OK the black five perhaps obscures the lines of the A4, but what a combination :icon_drool:

 

Anyway, a question for this most august thread:

 

Kelso, link below, that's surely late in the day for a wee concentration of grey unfitted vans?

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=27928

['CHARD]

august

 

adj formal: having great importance and especially of the highest social class

 

the society's august patron, the Duke of Norfolk

I'm glad we established that, thanks are due to Jamie for bringing it to our attention and to the Cambridge Online Learning Dictionary for its erudite definition.

 

Back onto the Route, and not only have I never seen a photo of the last passenger day, but neither of that aspect of Kelso before - is the line to the right some headshunt associated with the Jedburgh branch by any chance? The expansive sidings speak of busier times past, and are reminiscent of Fenland grain handling yards with that grey structure adjacent. '64 does seem late on for a raft of grey vans, one assumes these will work back to St Boswells, as that ended up the rump freight service. I had to remind myself yesterday that this was the last freight branch to close, in '68 (earlier photo links refer).

 

EDIT: I'm hopeful that Pennine, or his ilk, can help us out with the unfitted nature of those vans. I want to ask if Scottish fish traffic ended at the May T/T change in '68 too

[Jamie]

Robotham's book is beside me, if no Borderers answer you first, I'll try and post later tonight.

 

PS. not quite the definition I had in mind, but near enough

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

And finally, a car train as I remember them - a Black 5 pulling both an A4 and a car train north of Hawick.

 

 

Bruce

 

Identity of the A4?

I would put my money on Merlin. A regular on the route and the dirty condition would be typical.

Bernard

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

 

 

 

Back onto the Route, and not only have I never seen a photo of the last passenger day, but neither of that aspect of Kelso before - is the line to the right some headshunt associated with the Jedburgh branch by any chance? The expansive sidings speak of busier times past, and are reminiscent of Fenland grain handling yards with that grey structure adjacent. '64 does seem late on for a raft of grey vans, one assumes these will work back to St Boswells, as that ended up the rump freight service. I had to remind myself yesterday that this was the last freight branch to close, in '68 (earlier photo links refer).

 

EDIT: I'm hopeful that Pennine, or his ilk, can help us out with the unfitted nature of those vans. I want to ask if Scottish fish traffic ended at the May T/T change in '68 too

 

The line to the right is actually two short sidings at the end of the platform. Nothing to do with the Jedburgh line as far as I can see from the track plan.

Those 'unfitted' vans look more like perishable vans to my eyes.

The corn mill was reached via a wagon turntable the route branching out into two short sidings.

Bernard

[Tim Lewis]

'64 does seem late on for a raft of grey vans, one assumes these will work back to St Boswells, as that ended up the rump freight service. I had to remind myself yesterday that this was the last freight branch to close, in '68 (earlier photo links refer).

 

 

The vans won't necessarily go back to St. Boswells: freight continued over the whole Tweed Valley line (i.e. to Tweedmouth) until 1965.

 

I remember reading something somewhere about the long siding (possibly in Robotham, but it's not to hand at the moment). I might be remembering this completely wrong, but it may have been something like a 'temporary' additional platform put in for some agricultural show at some time, but then found to be useful and retained (I hope I'm not imagining this ).

[26power]

Might have been for a lamp.  

 

The "protrusions" look like they might be cast iron (I assume) steps/handholds.  There is a similar post with these in the recreated goods yard at Bo'ness.

 

Cheers,

 

26power

 

 

 

 

That is a nice picture for sure but just what is the white post on the left?

 

http://rniescottisha.../p48424399.html

Edited March 6, 2010 by 26power

[26power]

The lamp irons inboard of the tail (?) lamps are pretty non standard - usually outside (and lower) ala Heljan model.

 

A quick look at the pics in "BR Fleet Survey, No. 1" shows:

 

D5300 and D5303 with them inside. The former as delivered and the latter as 5303 with original yellow front and as 26 003 with later yellow cab sides.

 

D5314 and D5319 with them outside. 2 x shots of the former are 1959 so presumably as delivered.

 

No doubt further browsing would enable the changeover to be pinned down. But 004 as preserved has them outside, so presumably eventually the position standardised.

 

Cheers,

 

26power

 

Just a thought - the youtube movie shot of an A3 north of Galashiels must have been taken before the power signalling was introduced.

Here's a shot not quite at the same location. Frustratingly, I can make out D53{squiggle}7.

 

Bruce

Edited January 4, 2012 by 'CHARD

[Fat Controller]

The line to the right is actually two short sidings at the end of the platform. Nothing to do with the Jedburgh line as far as I can see from the track plan.

Those 'unfitted' vans look more like perishable vans to my eyes.

The corn mill was reached via a wagon turntable the route branching out into two short sidings.

Bernard

They're not perishable vans- the four grey ones are early LMS corrugated-end vans (the presence of a diagonal on one end of the side is the give away). Though I also thought 1964 was a bit late for an unfitted merchandise vehicle, I did find a photo of a ex-shopped one dated 1961- many were on a 9' wheelbase, and so wouldn't have been usable on an express freight service even if they had been fitted, so they might have escaped the great vacuum-braking programme of the late 1950s.

Two possibilities come to mind:-

Used for local freight between two points on the line- something like an abattoir supplying hides to a tannery or similar.

Used for storage at one of the yards when the normal warehousing was insufficent or for products you wouldn't want to store alongside other commodities, or for things like wagon sheets or empty sacks. Individual wagons used in such a way were a feature of many goods yards until recent times, though five might be a bit excessive.

I would tend towards the latter, especially as one van seems to have a large black patch for some sort of script

[Jamie]

'Chard has gone all quiet again. Was it one of the below?

 

Peak at Steele Road

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=28053

 

43121 at Longtown

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=28036

 

Hassendean

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=28018

 

EE Type 4, Riccarton Jct

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=27998

 

60825 south of Hawick

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=27970

[Guest Phil]

Not sure if this one has been mentioned. Apols if it has.

 

http://www.railwayherald.org/images/photos/750/750117073.jpg

['CHARD]

Not sure if this one has been mentioned. Apols if it has.

 

http://www.railwayhe...0/750117073.jpg

 

No, I don't believe it has Phil. So many thanks for that. It's so naughty that I don't need a caption, as I already know precisely what's going on here, despite never having seen this precise location from this angle before.

 

I'm sure the usual suspects do too, but I'm offering a shortbread roundy for the first non-ScR modellist who gets close! After all, we're supposed to be encouraging interest in the Scottish prototypes

['CHARD]

'Chard has gone all quiet again. Was it one of the below?

 

Peak at Steele Road

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=28053

 

Where do we keep finding these, people..? Jamie, top finds here. At the risk of opening several lines of debate at once (nah, to hell wi'it), I'm gonna make these observations:

 

a) Second vehicle behind the Peak looks like a Big Four brake in Blue&Grey which ticks a lot of boxes.

b; 43121 is hauling an unusually long raft of four-wheelers for this to be a local freight, yet I've never seen one of these cuties on a Millerhill before, so possibly a Hawick..?

c) Hassendean (topically) able to give any of the S&D wayside stations a run for their photogenic money in this shot, perfect image to sell through the scenic possibilities of the Route, as though any were needed

d) Broadside shot at Riccarton not just unusual in itself, but another great livery transition shot, perfect example of the era and emphasising the domination of sixteen-wheelers too

e) how can a line be as relatively neglected and overlooked as this: a V2 in its element, with a backdrop equal to anything the S&C can offer, another portrait liable to get me to turn back the clock

Edited January 4, 2012 by 'CHARD