Warley 2012

[ELTEL]

 

 

The point I was making above.

 

I have just caught with thread Mike and I feel I must make a posative point.

 

Perhaps you would be kind enough to forward photographs of your latest exhibition layout and of course your current uniform so we are all able to meet the the required standards

 

Eltel

 

 

 

[George Woodcock]

Hello

 

Must be something about Scarborough . I'll wear a DJ the next time I visit.

 

 

Cheers

 

George

[Pacific231G]

I find it incredible that someone would want to bring an unfinished layout to any exhibition let alone such a prestigious show as Warley. People pay good money to see working layouts (and moving trains) so with so many 'working' layouts out there why have one thats unfinished & un-runable?

OMG I've just realised that Pendon have been exhibiting an unfinished layout for the past forty or so years and the main scene has quite long gaps between trains. I'm amazed that anyone ever visits it a second time !!

It's quite amusing to see photos of the MRC exhibition before the war with all the exhibitors wearing suits but I see no reason to go back to that and in those days most LAYOUTS DIDN'T HAVE LIGHTING and in fact most exhibits weren't layouts they were static models and people admired them. The constant movement at all times notion does seem to be peculiar to British exhibitions and does tend to favour roundy roundies. Personally I like to see some shunting as well and if the model is worth looking at it's quite good to have pauses between train movements to appreciate the actual modelling.

[Mike J]

I have just caught with thread Mike and I feel I must make a posative point.

 

Perhaps you would be kind enough to forward photographs of your latest exhibition layout and of course your current uniform so we are all able to meet the the required standards

 

Eltel

 

Ok. See posts 478 and 502. I'm in both photos and have been involved with the building of both Haymarket Cross and The North of England Line which were at Warley, as well as several other layouts which weren't.

Both layouts were deemed to be of the required standard (they have won awards at other shows) to be at Warley, and were staffed by people who looked presentable. (not over dressed as some people have suggested) As Chairman of the Scarborough DRM I see it as part of my role to ensure that members are presentable and well behaved whilst representing our club.

Below are links to our layout The North of England Line which I helped operate at Warley 2012.

 

I hope this will assure any doubters of my current credentials to speak on this matter.

Best wishes,

Mike

 

Edit. The N gauge layout North of England Line is also known as Scarworth Junction after Hornby magazine renamed it in their feature on this layout, which was also in BRM and will shortly be appearing in another well known model railway publication.

[silverlink]

OMG I've just realised that Pendon have been exhibiting an unfinished layout for the past forty or so years and the main scene has quite long gaps between trains. I'm amazed that anyone ever visits it a second time !!

I do take it you have 'moving trains' then?

I don't think any layout is ever finished, we all find things that need altering or adding but to have a layout that is clearly no where near completed at a major show, come on.

[James]

unfortunately tee-shorts aren't the smartest clothing, especially when stretched over some of the operators seen at shows.

 

I wear T-shirts with the name of the 'layout' on them when I play with the big train set

[flapland]

Oh come on - getting annoyed about curtains - pull yourself together man!

 

Cheers,

Mick

Also some of the curtains aren't using finescale curtain track. What has the world come too, next they will be using drawing pins or even velcro.

[Mike J]

Also some of the curtains aren't using finescale curtain track. What has the world come too, next they will be using drawing pins or even velcro.

 

I use all three in my day job as a soft furnishing manager with 27 years experience, so feel I'm qualified to speak on this subject as well.

Lol...tongue in cheek (just in case)

[MarkSG]

I find it incredible that someone would want to bring an unfinished layout to any exhibition let alone such a prestigious show as Warley. People pay good money to see working layouts (and moving trains) so with so many 'working' layouts out there why have one thats unfinished & un-runable?

 

I disagree, actually. Some of the most interesting layouts I've seen at shows have been unfinished. I've seen Liverpool Lime Street in various stages of construction, and the crowds round a very early Once Upon a Time in the West at Stafford a couple of years ago were bigger than some of those round working layouts. One of the biggest advantages of a work-in-progress display is that you get a behind the scenes (or, more accurately, under the scenes) look at other people's construction techniques, which is always useful from a modelling perspective.

 

It does make a difference, obviously, if a WiP layout is exhibited by people who are willing to interact with visitors rather than just let the layout speak for itself (or not, as the case may be) and, if possible, there are some display boards showing how the layout is expected to develop. But that's all just part and parcel of good exhibition technique anyway.

 

If I went to a small show and several layouts were unfinished then I might feel a bit short-changed, but a large show like Warley can easily make room for them. They may not be to everyone's tastes, but, then, not everything will be anyway.

[Oldddudders]

I hope this will assure any doubters of my current credentials to speak on this matter.

But you speak as an exhibitor, not a paying punter. Are they allowed to decide?

[queensquare]

I don't go to Warley because there are too many layouts where the curtains haven't been ironed properly.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Funny you should mention that Geoff but Kim gave me a right ear bashing because I hadn't folded the curtain up properly when I had put it away last........I wouldn't be drawn on the subject!!

 

Jerry

[Mike J]

But you speak as an exhibitor, not a paying punter. Are they allowed to decide?

 

Of course Ian,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not going to try and deny them the opportunity to put it forward. I just found it incredible that some people seemed to advocate that personal appearance and hygiene were not important when exhibiting. (or maybe in any other walk of life) I've no beef with people wearing tee-shirts as long as they look smart. You are representing your own layout and the host club whilst exhibiting.

As a paying punter interacting with layout operators, I would prefer them to be smart and clean. I agree that my personal preference to present a sort of corporate image may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it does help the general public to identify you with your layout should they wish to speak to you whist you are not stood behind it.

Cheers,

Mike

 

Edit. Once again I feel qualified to offer an opinion as a punter, exhibitor and show organiser.

[silverlink]

Of course Ian,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not going to try and deny them the opportunity to put it forward. I just found it incredible that some people seemed to advocate that personal appearance and hygiene were not important when exhibiting. (or maybe in any other walk of life) I've no beef with people wearing tee-shirts as long as they look smart. You are representing your own layout and the host club whilst exhibiting.

As a paying punter interacting with layout operators, I would prefer them to be smart and clean. I agree that my personal preference to present a sort of corporate image may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it does help the general public to identify you with your layout should they wish to speak to you whist you are not stood behind it.

Cheers,

Mike

 

Edit. Once again I feel qualified to offer an opinion as a punter, exhibitor and show organiser.

Hear, hear Mike.

Ian

[Mike J]

I disagree, actually. Some of the most interesting layouts I've seen at shows have been unfinished. I've seen Liverpool Lime Street in various stages of construction, and the crowds round a very early Once Upon a Time in the West at Stafford a couple of years ago were bigger than some of those round working layouts. One of the biggest advantages of a work-in-progress display is that you get a behind the scenes (or, more accurately, under the scenes) look at other people's construction techniques, which is always useful from a modelling perspective.

 

It does make a difference, obviously, if a WiP layout is exhibited by people who are willing to interact with visitors rather than just let the layout speak for itself (or not, as the case may be) and, if possible, there are some display boards showing how the layout is expected to develop. But that's all just part and parcel of good exhibition technique anyway.

 

If I went to a small show and several layouts were unfinished then I might feel a bit short-changed, but a large show like Warley can easily make room for them. They may not be to everyone's tastes, but, then, not everything will be anyway.

 

I agree with both Ian and Mark on this, in part. If I was organising the exhibition, I would need to know that the layout was unfinished and unworkable. It could then be either withdrawn or marketed as a diorama or work in progress. "Please ask the layout owner about the construction methods he/she has used and what the future plans for completion of the layout are." I think in this case the all important question is one of marketing, so that the punters are under no illusion about what to expect.

[Hugh Flynn]

I don't go to Warley because there are too many layouts where the curtains haven't been ironed properly.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Well im not getting DRAWN into this one?

Hugh

[John Geeee]

I get the impression that some people must go to these shows just to find something to moan about. They seem to spend so much time searching for something bad that they must surely have forgotton to appreciate the good and in some cases the excellent. Perhaps we should have two Exhibition forums, one for praise and the other for bitching. The exhibitors and Warley MRC must be thinking why do we bother?

 

I went on the Saturday and thought this was the best show for quality layouts for the last few years. I enjoyed looking for inspiration from many of the layouts. I liked the O gauge shed layouts with all those locos packed onto them. I found the 3D looking perspective layout fascinating. Liverpol Lime Street is coming on a treat, the roof work is something else. I liked the Dublin street with trams and moving vehicles. Many others that I can't remember the names of all reminded me of why I started modelling only 6 years ago and makes me question why I have not got very far and that I need a good kick up the backside.

 

If I have to moan about something ( ) it is that I spent 7 hours there and could have easily stayed another 7 to make sure I saw everything. It' getting too big to take it all in in one day.

 

Cheers

John Geeeee

[PLD]

I get the impression that some people must go to these shows just to find something to moan about. They seem to spend so much time searching for something bad that they must surely have forgotton to appreciate the good and in some cases the excellent.

 

Being realistic I don't go to any show expecting to like everything about it - at most shows there are some good layouts (in terms of modelling standards, operation or presentation), some not so good, some that appeal to my interests, others that don't, and just occasionally that one something special that surprises.

 

Warley (and other larger shows) as a consequence of their size do tend to have more of the bad but counterbalanced by also having more of the good. Inevitably some comentators will focus on one end of the spectrum or the other. In reality it's the overall balance that counts for whether a show offers value for money, and everyone's opinion will be different on that score...

 

Paul

[Natalie]

I was at the NEC for both days on the Signalling Record Society stand and overall had an enjoyable time. Because of the way that things have been with my physical and mental health at present I was very anxious/unsure about whether to attend or if it would be too much for me but as I didn't want to let my society or colleagues down I decided to give it a go. I found the show to be enjoyable and as usual was able to catch up with a few people who took the trouble to enquire as to my health which was both nice and appreciated. I managed to look at what I wanted but only just- and that took me two days. I found this year's show to be a positive experience, gave my mood and morale a welcome boost and one which I feel has made a contribution to my continued recovery.

 

Incidentally I made an effort to look presentable (although it seems my clothes have grown again), had washed, brushed my hair and was wearing some perfume but do admit that I wasn't wearing any make-up as to be honest I couldn't be bothered.

 

Here's to the next show.

[kandc_au]

Been out all day so have just caught up with todays (your last nights posts)

I may have missed something, but I didn't think that Mike J said exhibitors HAD to wear uniforms.

I was under the impression the wording was reasonably dressed.

 

As for BO juice....that's just basic hygeine, which one would expect of anyone! Visitor or exhibitor!

 

Unfinished layouts......What really is the issue. It does give one a chance to see how things are done.

Practicality wise, an unfinished layout being worked on is an even better exhibition exhibit.

It is surprising the number of people who go to shows and say I couldn't do that, without having an idea of how easy a lot of things are to do.

I know from my own point of view it is a lot easier to see how something is done, than read about it and put into practice!

 

Model Railways is not a one shoe fits all hobby.

 

Khris

[Hugh Flynn]

Hi

Well there will never be the perfect show but what we should expect is a standard of layouts being presentable (woodwork varnished,re-painted if a bit tatty),layouts have been hoovered to get rid of cobwebs and sprued up for the show ,operators clean and tidy and having had a shave? operators to be polite to the public even if asked a simple basic question the only time I have refused a request was when asked if I would write all my loco numbers down in his book???(yes on clubs large layout with a large amount of loco,s)

Warley is the show I I now do over a two day period Buy first day then layouts second.

 

Now my bug bear the people who leave a vapour trail and this year it was down to only two (better than last year) I know there might be some reason but i am sorry it just gets to me?

 

Hugh

[Southernman46]

Blimey, things MUST be looking up only 4 mentions (and one of those was a repeat quote) of the word "rucksack" in this thread and ALL before the exhibition date too.................

[DLT]

Unfinished layouts......What really is the issue. It does give one a chance to see how things are done.

Practicality wise, an unfinished layout being worked on is an even better exhibition exhibit.

It is surprising the number of people who go to shows and say I couldn't do that, without having an idea of how easy a lot of things are to do.

I know from my own point of view it is a lot easier to see how something is done, than read about it and put into practice!

 

Model Railways is not a one shoe fits all hobby. Khris

Quite agree Kris,

 

My layouts have been exhibited almost from the moment that they were fully operational. Trains running, but baseboard construction, wiring, trackbulding methods, a few scenics etc all exposed to scrutiny and up for discussion. It always went down very well, AND I built up a group of freinds/observers/operators who came along to succesive shows to see the layout's progress. Theres no way I would want to complete a layout up to fully scenic and detailed status before I tested it under exhibition conditions!

 

Of course, you can't have many unfinished exhibits at one show, but one or two can provide an extra dimension to the show and bags of information and inspiration to visitors.

 

Dave.

 

PS I didnt see the unfinished layout at Warley, couldnt get near it!

[RichardS]

Blimey, things MUST be looking up only 4 mentions (and one of those was a repeat quote) of the word "rucksack" in this thread and ALL before the exhibition date too.................

Blimey, things MUST be looking up only 4 mentions (and one of those was a repeat quote) of the word "rucksack" in this thread and ALL before the exhibition date too.................

 

There weren't too many rucksacks this year were there? There's nothing wrong with rucksacks or the people who wear them, it's just they forget they are now double depth! There, that increases the use of the R word by 50%!

 

Having read all the latest posts while eating my morning porridge I can't help bu notice that some posters think people are whinging or complaining. I don't think people are, most if not all are saying "Warley was good, we enjoyed it, but by reviewing/changing, X, Y Z etc our enjoyment would be even greater"

 

The organisation is seen by the vast majority as being tip-top. Nothing is perfect and things happen. But that's life.

The quality of the exhibits is seen again by most as being very good. Yes there were some unexpected things and some hiccups but again nobody has said outright "that model was sheeer rrubbish" (can you hear Pvt Fraser?)

 

The presentation of the layouts seems to be the most commented matter - and really the presentation is the icing on the cake.

It's what makes a 'bun' a fancy 'cupcake'. Bun might be great but the icing really makes it 'something else'.

 

I think almost to a man/lady we agree that Warley is great. But that doesn't mean that we as customers who pay money to get in are complacent about the product - we want better and better products and value for money and essentially that means the layouts - the traders and societies etc are only there because the layouts are - must be what the attention is paid to.

 

In the plastic model world there is a saying: 'brilliant finishing will make an average model look good; average finishing will make a brilliant model look average at best.'

 

Model engineering is another case in point. Some models are machined and created with expertise but are then painted with a 2" paintbrush. Seen it several times. And I think it's because the modeller is only interested in the making and operating, not the final overall outcome.

 

When all is said and done we must strive for excellence it is the only way anything gets better.

 

My right to comment: I have had an exhibition layout, I do make models, I am now making another exhibition layout, I do go to several exhibitions each year. And there's something else too but that is marked 'secret' at present - but it is relevant.

 

Have a happy week!

[bbishop]

It's quiet on the CFR front, so I'll get my thoughts onto the screen before this thread degenerates too far about body odour, layout lighting and (lately) unironed drapes...

 

This was my first Warley, and I went in order to collect the station building for my new layout, to speak to layouts and traders about the exhibition that I manage, and for the RMWeb get together, meeting iD, TS and AndyY amongst others. So it met my expectations in those respects.

 

But the way I work a show is to spend lengthy spells in front of half a dozen layouts. This isn't pre-planned, they may be layouts I haven't seen before or one's I particularly like, so I have spent many hours just watching the operation of East Lynn. The sheer size of Warley actually meant it was counter productive and I probably spent less time in front of layouts than at a smaller show. My "half hour" layouts were the large Dutch and French layouts, Schwachhausen and Aberbeeg. And I managed to completely miss St Juliot and Tucking Mill, although I can catch the former at St Albans next month.

 

So would I spend £30 to go to next year's show? Probably not, because I will see the same number of quality layouts at St Albans, Tonbridge and Epsom. Warley was just too big.

 

Bill

[southern42]

 

So would I spend £30 to go to next year's show? Probably not, because I will see the same number of quality layouts at St Albans, Tonbridge and Epsom. Warley was just too big.

 

Bill

 

Maybe, it's possible to think of Warley as you would the annual/occasional trip to the city shopping centre (for us, it'll be Chester, Manchester or Cardiff): possibly crowded, lots of choice, some better than others, you might not get what you went for or do it all in a day, but still a good day out.

 

Credentials: Just made second visit to Warley, the first time saying 'never, ever again and I won't change my mind'!