Kernow Models D6xx Update

[Geoff Endacott]

Access was restricted in the D600 because the designers had to fit what was essentially a German locomotive into the British loading gauge.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Baby Deltic]

53 minutes ago, Geoff Endacott said:

Access was restricted in the D600 because the designers had to fit what was essentially a German locomotive into the British loading gauge.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

It was even worse in the D800's and 1000's.

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Compared to the class 42/52 with just 4 cab doors, the 35 has a set of double doors.

The class 22 however has 16 doors it seems to be an NBL thing.

I wonder if fitters found all those doors a benefit or pointless.

 

As already mentioned, the end doors weren’t used too often.

 

 

I can remember seeing a D6XX at Laira in the early days with various of the side doors open and the Fitters using them for access to whatever they were needing to access so presumably the doors (or some of them) where there for a good reason.  Overall they must have been one of the most accessible Type 4s in the BR fleet for the artisans maintaining them?

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I can remember seeing a D6XX at Laira in the early days with various of the side doors open and the Fitters using them for access to whatever they were needing to access so presumably the doors (or some of them) where there for a good reason.  Overall they must have been one of the most accessible Type 4s in the BR fleet for the artisans maintaining them?

Direct access from the work platform to whatever you needed to get at was always a Good Thing.

[adb968008]

I wonder if it’s coincidence, but all those classes (except 20) with lots of  doors (human entry or access inspection) seem to have been short lived in BR service compared to design life..

14, 15,16,17,22,D600,58

Edited April 7, 2019 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder if it’s coincidence, but all those classes (except 20) with lots of  doors (human entry or access inspection) seem to have been short lived in BR service compared to design life..

14, 15,16,17,22,D600,58

Several reasons I suspect.  Partially one of design and manufacture (just about everything from NBL) and sometimes one of being overtaken by events (the Class 58 and class 14.  However notwithstanding the accessibility advantages I do wonder if all those extra louvres and doors caused problems with dust and dirt ingress or even difficulties in severe cold weather?  

[No Decorum]

17 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Several reasons I suspect.  Partially one of design and manufacture (just about everything from NBL) and sometimes one of being overtaken by events (the Class 58 and class 14.  However notwithstanding the accessibility advantages I do wonder if all those extra louvres and doors caused problems with dust and dirt ingress or even difficulties in severe cold weather?  

I believe that one reason for the re-arrangement of the scattered grills on the 25s to a neat line high up was to minimise dust and dirt ingress.

[Baby Deltic]

Usually the grilles had oil wetted filters behind them to stop dirt getting into the engine room. Then again a friend of mine who was at Stratford for years said that on class 40's the filters in the nose would be solid when removed, especially when there was a lot of pollen about. They used to drop them in boiling caustic soda to clean them. Class 16's got so full of dust they had to open all the engine compartment doors and blow them out before they could even think about fixing them. That coupled with running plates awash with oil made them unpleasant to work on

Edited April 7, 2019 by Baby Deltic

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Baby Deltic said:

Usually the grilles had oil wetted filters behind them to stop dirt getting into the engine room. Then again a friend of mine who was at Stratford for years said that on class 40's the filters in the nose would be solid when removed, especially when there was a lot of pollen about. They used to drop them in boiling caustic soda to clean them. Class 16's got so full of dust they had to open all the engine compartment doors and blow them out before they could even think about fixing them. That coupled with running plates awash with oil made them unpleasant to work on

Boiling caustic soda seems to have been quite popular as a cleaning medium - at Old Oak Common it was used to clean restaurant car kitchen fitments.

[corsair]

Dont know if any one is following the next shipment on the hai bang da318 ive been looking at it but it only seems to go between china and hong kong i have spoke to kernow they confirm its on that ship im gussing it was on that ship from china to hong kong then has been transfered to another ship also whilst serching for the hai bang i found that the ship is or was for sale to be honest looking at the photos it dosnt look like the sort of ship that would come to southampton. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by corsair

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 10:58, adb968008 said:

I wonder if it’s coincidence, but all those classes (except 20) with lots of  doors (human entry or access inspection) seem to have been short lived in BR service compared to design life..

14, 15,16,17,22,D600,58

Also the NBL 21/29 D/E equivalents to the 22 (which were, if anything, even worse). The trend was bucked in huge numbers by the 08, though.

 

However, it's no coincidence. As newer, more reliable diesels were built in numbers, the need for frequent attention to the engines lessened, and major work was easier with the unit(s) removed via the roof.

 

The 58 was something of a throwback, inspired by the American "hood unit" tradition and was intended to make it possible to do more to the engine without removal. However, US and European attitudes to dead-weight differ. Their necessarily heavier frames negated the rigidity/weight advantages of the semi-monocoque bodyshells that had become the norm on BR after the demise of earlier multi-door types.

 

Whilst there was nothing particularly bad about them (hence their survival on construction work abroad), the 58s didn't offer any real advantages over the preceding Class 56 and, as demand for Type 5 freight power fell, weren't numerous enough to avoid the "non-standard" label that had spelled doom for so many other classes before them

 

John

Edited April 10, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Baby Deltic]

The 56's were a bit of a maintenance nuisance. They were more 'sure footed' than the class 58's and would pull most trains without slipping. The problem with them was with the roof itself and lack of hatches unlike the earlier class 47 body design they were based around meaning that if there was an issue on top of the engine with something like a blowing exhaust joint or faulty turbo, the roof had to come off to gain access. 

[Pteremy]

Re side doors, could accident risk be a factor in not liking them? That is, if not shut properly, or a lock failed? 

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Pteremy said:

Re side doors, could accident risk be a factor in not liking them? That is, if not shut properly, or a lock failed? 

More likely, the structural integrity of the monocoque body shell would have been compromised if there were too many apertures in it. This type of construction was why the 8xx Warships were so much lighter than their predecessors, and was also to be found on the Westerns and Brush Type 4s.

[5944]

On 10/04/2019 at 13:44, Baby Deltic said:

The 56's were a bit of a maintenance nuisance. 

Plus the Romanian build quality was 'interesting'. "Individually handcrafted" was how someone within the Class 56 Group described them to me! 

[Baby Deltic]

1 hour ago, 5944 said:

Plus the Romanian build quality was 'interesting'. "Individually handcrafted" was how someone within the Class 56 Group described them to me! 

 

Appalling would be more like it. Cables pulled through metalwork still covered in burrs with no grommets of protection. I think cables weren't numbered too. BR had one heck of a job sorting out all their mistakes.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Baby Deltic

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, 5944 said:

Plus the Romanian build quality was 'interesting'. "Individually handcrafted" was how someone within the Class 56 Group described them to me! 

Somebody made the rather elementary design error of copying alot of features from the Brush Type 4 into the Class 56.  However what they failed to do was appreciate that the Brush Type 4 had not only become a Class 47 but much more importantly had undergone numerous mods which had resulted in locos with considerable detail differences from the original specs and drawings.  Add to that the atrocious build standard in Romania, -as Lloyd ('Baby Deltic') has said it was absolutely appalling and with a lot of sub-spec material used as well as putting it together atrociously.

Edited April 12, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Somebody made the rather elementary design error of copying alot of features from the Brush Type 4 into the Class 56.  However what they failed to do was appreciate that the Brush Type 4 had not only become a Class 47 but much more importantly had undergone numerous mods which had resulted in locos with considerable detail differences from the original specs and drawings.  Add to that the atrocious build standard in Romania, -as Lloyd ('Baby Deltic') has said it was absolutely appalling and with a lot of sub-spec material used as well as putting it together atrociously.

Something else to thank Robert Maxwell for...

[John Tomlinson]

That's an interesting comment. IIRC Maxwell came from eastern Slovakia originally, and quite possibly therefore had some contacts behind the Iron Curtain.

 

You've reminded me of an incident in my last year at university. I applied for the Civil Service "fast stream" intake, which came with a great series of tests and interviews. In one of the later stages, we were given an example to work on that was almost exactly the case of the Romanian 56's, this was after the event in early 1978. The proposition being that government should look to broader international benefits in its procurement policy than simple commercial criteria. I remember that I and another candidate argued for the Romanian option on those grounds.

 

I did however omit to mention that I recognised the case from my hobby, which would have bee distinctly "uncool" back in those days. As it happened I needn't have been so bothered, I was rejected at the last stage and ended up going into finance - as it happened by chance a far better career path as the '80's unfolded.

 

John.

[7013]

I suppose one day we may get back to the Warships?

[John Tomlinson]

No one is stopping anyone from getting back to the Warships, the topic does however seem a bit in limbo awaiting a boat to dock.

 

You could of course just ignore posts that you regard as irrelevant or pointless.

 

John.

[jsp3970]

24 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

No one is stopping anyone from getting back to the Warships, the topic does however seem a bit in limbo awaiting a boat to dock.

 

You could of course just ignore posts that you regard as irrelevant or pointless.

 

John.

Which boat are you referring to? The Mol Truth docked a week ago and has since carried on. Since then there seems to be no news on what is going on with the second batch!

[John Tomlinson]

I was thinking of the boat on the previous page, the Hai Bong?

 

Obviously I've got a bit confused - for which apologies. My interest in this thread I'm afraid is somewhat selfish, I can't decide whether or not to part with the dosh, and rather look in for feedback from those who have!

 

John.

[jsp3970]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I was thinking of the boat on the previous page, the Hai Bong?

 

Obviously I've got a bit confused - for which apologies. My interest in this thread I'm afraid is somewhat selfish, I can't decide whether or not to part with the dosh, and rather look in for feedback from those who have!

 

John.

Well I am more interested in the second batch as my model is among them. I just got the weekly newsletter that states that they haven't received the models yet

[Baby Deltic]

I'm looking forward to my two blue ones. The green one's a beauty but I do prefer blue on these loco's.