Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[truffy]

Rails seem to be slightly cheaper with new stuff. The slightly older stuff, it pays to compare prices once they start discounting. Hattons are cheaper for some items, Rails for others.

 

There's more than just Hattons and Rails worth looking at. I'm currently looking at a well-priced item (new, at the same price as used on H) with another seller (and it ain't Ebay).

Edited January 16, 2018 by truffy

[Chamby]

Another thing I have noticed is that prices of discounted items do vary hugely over time, with a Rails pricing more volatile than Hattons of late. For example R3356 the Railroad crosti 9F... last year it was discounted to £79... then during the pre-Christmas period it was £89... now it is £109 and they quote ‘hurry now sold out at Hornby’. Looks like they are starting to follow budget airlines policy of charging more as availability dwindles. I dislike this approach intensely and it has deterred a possible purchase from them on a couple of occasions as I baulk at being asked to pay more than they were happy to take before.

 

In contrast, Hattons pricing seems to be more consistent for now. I hope they keep it that way.

[60159]

I've always enjoyed excellent service from Hattons and on the rare occasion there has been a problem with an item, they dealt with it without any issues.

 

As for varying pricing - that's life. If an item has become rare or rarer it's natural that the seller will wanting a better price for it even though earlier the seller might have taken less.  Turning it on its head, don't tell me a buyer would insist on paying the pre-sale price despite the price being reduced in a sale or special promotion. If I don't like the price I don't buy.

[Dunsignalling]

And there it is this morning!

 

"Damage to deflectors" (which will be next to impossible to obtain as they are non-standard length) - and yours for £120.

 

Or you can have one with deflectors (but not actually working) at a cool £140.

 

Or you could buy both, swop deflectors and have a model which runs at a mere £260.

 

 

Feeling sad about our hobby and the way some of our once most trusted suppliers are headed. 

Or you could have got your a**e in gear and bought a new one when they were selling them at a discount................

 

As a unique WC variant, that only ran in that condition for about five years, "I want one / I don't want one" shouldn't have been a difficult decision.  

 

Hatton's aren't trying to hide anything so trust isn't an issue, but assuming that everything they sell, they sell cheap is a mistake. 

 

With used items, Hatton's initially run the price up to the top of the flagpole, if nobody salutes it, they'll run it up again, but only part way, in a few months time. 

 

I personally would willingly pay £75 for each of the ones described, so long as I could have both. £150 to make one good one up out of two with a spare tender (worth about £30) and taking a chance on the rest of a loco with unknown defects, would be very acceptable  Always supposing I wanted another Bude...........

 

John

Edited January 17, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Coryton]

I've always enjoyed excellent service from Hattons and on the rare occasion there has been a problem with an item, they dealt with it without any issues.

 

As for varying pricing - that's life. If an item has become rare or rarer it's natural that the seller will wanting a better price for it even though earlier the seller might have taken less.  Turning it on its head, don't tell me a buyer would insist on paying the pre-sale price despite the price being reduced in a sale or special promotion. If I don't like the price I don't buy.

 

It may well be natural for prices to be pushed up as something becomes more rare, but it's something that traditionally model shops (on line or otherwise) don't do. (Ebay sellers, on the other hand...)

 

One thing that I really appreciate about Hattons is that once they discount something (new), that price generally stays until they've all gone. They even put prices in printed catalogues. You can plan to get something for Christmas or a birthday and only have to keep an eye on the numbers left without worrying that the price will have doubled by the time you want/can afford it.

 

Volatile pricing may be a fact of life these days, but I would hate for everything to go like Amazon where where prices vary hugely and unpredictably over time - looking at charts of Amazon price fluctuations makes buying something feel like playing the stock markets.

 

As an example, many people feel it's wrong for concert tickets to be resold at much higher than the face value, but it's just supply and demand. Maybe the answer is for the venue to sell tickets directly using airline-style pricing. I wonder how that would go down? Maybe Hornby should abolish the idea of RRP and buy in an algorithm to choose a price for each model every day based on how many are left and how well they are selling?

[BWsTrains]

Let's be clear here, two totally different pricing issues are being jumbled together in the debate.

 

New Products: Manufacturers must price to cover substantial up front costs + fixed costs yet remain competitive to get enough volume and not have Retailers up in arms that the product is too expensive to sell. H & B appear to run somewhat different strategies here, the former having to discount more aggressively either up front to capture enough sales or when a product doen't move as planned (IMO, please feel free to explain if not so IYO)

 

Pre-Owned: Each Merchant has their own modus and issues, keep all in house, EB store, a mix, etc. Also preparedness to tie up capital in stock holdings will be different. If relaxed about Working Capital issues and confident of demand, a Merchant may well aim high at first to offset general holding costs.

 

Look at these two together and it's easier to see why New could easily be offered cheaper at point A than Pre-owned at Point B thru a different channel with different price drivers. In most cases the scarcity and business factors must help support prices at Point B, annoying as this might appear for those whose a**e was not in gear at Point A.    

[Coryton]

Look at these two together and it's easier to see why New could easily be offered cheaper at point A than Pre-owned at Point B thru a different channel with different price drivers. In most cases the scarcity and business factors must help support prices at Point B, annoying as this might appear for those whose a**e was not in gear at Point A.    

 

But when point A is point B, it does make the seller look a bit daft.

[BWsTrains]

But when point A is point B, it does make the seller look a bit daft.

 

Maybe Hand B can't know what Hand A is doing 100% of the time and regular price rechecking is not economic relative to the lost opportunity from an occasional anomaly?

It would be easy to crosscheck relative pricing at point of listing a Pre-owned item but near impossible to check if the New gets discounted later on when you have literally thousands of pre-owned items. I've seen days when up to 150+ additional pre-owned items get listed!

 

Just imagine the work to go thru that lot with ongoing price checks. If they get out of whack, so be it. Onus on buyer to do their own price check vs New.

[Coryton]

Maybe Hand B can't know what Hand A is doing 100% of the time and regular price rechecking is not economic relative to the lost opportunity from an occasional anomaly?

It would be easy to crosscheck relative pricing at point of listing a Pre-owned item but near impossible to check if the New gets discounted later on when you have literally thousands of pre-owned items. I've seen days when up to 150+ additional pre-owned items get listed!

 

Just imagine the work to go thru that lot with ongoing price checks. If they get out of whack, so be it. Onus on buyer to do their own price check vs New.

 

Well, given that second hand stock is generally catalogued with a modified version of the manufacturer's part code, it wouldn't be very hard to write a bit of code to make a list of pre-owned items that are being sold for more than the new one.

 

In any case, regardless of whether it makes sense for them to do it or not, I stand by my point that it makes them look daft.

[D7100]

Hattons shopping cart/pre-order doesn't seem to be working.

 

Tried allowing cookies as suggested. Still nothing.

 

Tried ordering on Lap -top, I-pad & Samsung mobile but shopping cart on Hattons site wont allow any items to be added.

 

Anyone else had probs or got any useful advice before I contact them.

 

Cheers in advance D7100.

[sandwich station]

It works ok for me.

[Dunsignalling]

Well, given that second hand stock is generally catalogued with a modified version of the manufacturer's part code, it wouldn't be very hard to write a bit of code to make a list of pre-owned items that are being sold for more than the new one.

 

In any case, regardless of whether it makes sense for them to do it or not, I stand by my point that it makes them look daft.

When that happens, so long as they don't mind sitting on the second-hand stock for a while, it probably isn't worth the effort of altering the prices then having to change them back when the cut-price new stuff is gone.

 

It may also be good sales psychology in that it makes the new stock look even more of a bargain so may speed up those sales.  Shifting the new stock is always likely to be the priority, it looks bad if you still have "more than 10 in stock" more than a year after release.

 

Leave everything as is and the customer does the work for you "oh, look, I can get a new one cheaper than the s/h price," 

 

The number of s/h examples of items they get in that are still in stock new can't be huge anyway.

 

John

Edited January 20, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Stevelewis]

I  had  a  strange occurance  this  week....   I placed  a  low  value  order  around  £35  for  some items  a  few  yards  of  track   a roll of  cork some  fishplates  and  a pack  of  trackpins.

 

Unusually  for  me  I did not  bother to  use  next  day  delivery  as  none  of  the  items  were needed  straight  away.  So  just  selected DPS @£4  ( could not  select Royal  Mail due  to  the  length of the  track)

 

Within10 mins  I got  the  usual 2 emails  and  less than 30 mins  later  got  the  Picking  list completed  and  tracking  details!  2 parcels.

 

Later in day  recvd   info from  DPD  that  my order  would be  delivered  NEXT DAY by 1-00pm.

 

This  is  where  the  fun  starts!!!!!!!  

 

Email in the  morning  that  deliver was  due  between 11-00 & 12-00....at    11-05 DPD arrived  with   just  one  parcel  the  track,  phoned  HAttons  to  advise  them,......2-00pm  another  email from DPD  your  parcel  will arrive  2-30  to  3-30

 2-35  DPD van  arrives   much  bigger  than  the  1st  one  with  the  second  parcel  cork  etc,  driver  said  it  happens  all the  time  sometimes  3  parcels to  one  address  can  result  in 3 separate deliveries.

 

I have  dealt  with  Hattons  for around  30 years  never   had  a  split  delivery  before  especially  for  rather  insignificant  items!!

[sandwich station]

I have  dealt  with  Hattons  for around  30 years  never   had  a  split  delivery  before  especially  for  rather  insignificant  items!!

 

 

Surely wouldn't that be down to the delivery company? As they would have picked them up at the same time.

[davefromacrossthepond]

But they all arrived next day right?

[Stevelewis]

But they all arrived next day right?

 

Yep  arrived  next  day   and  I  did not  actually  pay  the  additional cost  of  next  day  delivery  ( which  is  unusual  for  me!!)  as  the  items  were  just   re stock items  for  future  use and  not urgently  required

 

The OP  was  not  a complaint  against  Hattons,  but  just  pointing  out  an  unusual  situation

Edited January 20, 2018 by Stevelewis

[Stevelewis]

Surely wouldn't that be down to the delivery company? As they would have picked them up at the same time.

 

Yes  that  is  not  disputed  it  was  down  to  the  strange  way  that DPD seem  to  handle  multiparcel  consignments , the  delivery  driver  told  me  that when  parcels  are  sorted  at  the  depots  they  are  loaded  onto rolling  cages so  these  consignments can  be  easily  split  up.

 

Ideally  it  would  have  been  a  fairly simple  matter  for  the  2 parcels  to have  been taped  together  and   sent  as  one parcel,  Hattons  have  taken  this  on  board  as  they  were concerned as to  what occurred.

[Jonboy]

We had quotes for dpd and their rep told us they don’t accept multiples taped or strapped together due, to the type of conveyor they use in their depots.

[blueeighties]

Some of the used prices are eye watering. £180 for a Dapol 68?

[GEOEng03]

Excellent customer service from Hattons. Purchased a pre-owned Class 60. Item arrived with some damage, so duly messaged to explain and show pictures.  Prompt response and options to proceed. Took the offer of a partial refund, as parts could be fixed. Refund in account the very next morning (it was after 6 when they had responded the night before). Very impressed and good to see that attentive service was given.

Cheers

[badgerV8]

I currently have mixed views....

 

I've placed a lot of orders with Hatton's over the years and had no issues, but one thing I've been guilty of is buying locos and immediately putting them away into storage, for the day that I "get round to" building my layout....

 

Anyway, that day came recently, so once I had track down I started running locos. At this time, I discovered issues with Heljan's Class 14 and 17 models via the internet, so was wary of checking out those particular locos first.

 

First, the Class 17, after finding this forum and reading up on the issues. Sure enough, tight wormshaft bearings on the drive towers causing high current drain, dismantled and resolved, all back together and sound installed, job done.

 

Next, the 14.... opened the box, to find a loco with broken steps, headcodes cut from the sheet and already installed, glue marks on the body at the horn blocks and replacement etched cabside running numbers fitted! Oh, and it ran like a bag of bolts, with two pickups bent out of shape as well!! Not what I expected. Now, it's a number of years since I bought it, so I knew there was no question of any warranty, so I decided (with the help of info on this forum) to resolve the running issues myself. This I did, and now have a good running model, which I have installed sound into (with a degree of difficulty!).

 

I decided I would email Hattons and touch base, explaining the situation, as this had actually been bought as a new item....  various emails later, people not wanting to believe me that I had bought it "new", someone else talking about "damage" when it was actually modifications, and a steadfast refusal to acknowledge that something had gone wrong their end.... at one point I was more or less called a liar by one of their staff, which really angered me! Sadly, I don't have the original purchase docs as it was an internet purchase that would have been saved on the hard drive of my previous computer, which went to the big silicon valley in the sky about 2 years ago, haha. I am absolutely convinced that I was accidentally sent someone else's returned item as a new one, by mistake.

 

Lessons learned, 1. check everything on receipt. 2. print and keep paperwork. 3. don't trust a retailer just because they are big and have been around for a long time!  

 

This was my first ever occasion that I felt the need to contact Hatton's about anything I have ever purchased from them, and in all honestly it leaves a slightly bitter feeling towards buying from them again in the future!

[truffy]

Lessons learned, 1. check everything on receipt. 2. print and keep paperwork. 3. don't trust a retailer just because they are big and have been around for a long time! 

 

4. Give locos a light running-in on a test track (or rolling road if you're keen and have the propellor-hat). It doesn't take much to set up a small, temporary loop for testing purposes.

[Colin_McLeod]

badgerv8 your experience would have been more believable to Hattons if you had raised the issue at the time as they would more likely have made the connection between your comments and their other customers. To raise the issue years later and expect Hattons (or any retailer) to just accept the complaint without question is unrealistic.

 

To then say the experience made you bitter is sad and unfair to Hattons.

 

For your own benefit get over it and move on with the good things in life.

[amdaley]

I currently have mixed views....

 

I've placed a lot of orders with Hatton's over the years and had no issues, but one thing I've been guilty of is buying locos and immediately putting them away into storage, for the day that I "get round to" building my layout....

 

Anyway, that day came recently, so once I had track down I started running locos. At this time, I discovered issues with Heljan's Class 14 and 17 models via the internet, so was wary of checking out those particular locos first.

 

First, the Class 17, after finding this forum and reading up on the issues. Sure enough, tight wormshaft bearings on the drive towers causing high current drain, dismantled and resolved, all back together and sound installed, job done.

 

Next, the 14.... opened the box, to find a loco with broken steps, headcodes cut from the sheet and already installed, glue marks on the body at the horn blocks and replacement etched cabside running numbers fitted! Oh, and it ran like a bag of bolts, with two pickups bent out of shape as well!! Not what I expected. Now, it's a number of years since I bought it, so I knew there was no question of any warranty, so I decided (with the help of info on this forum) to resolve the running issues myself. This I did, and now have a good running model, which I have installed sound into (with a degree of difficulty!).

 

I decided I would email Hattons and touch base, explaining the situation, as this had actually been bought as a new item....  various emails later, people not wanting to believe me that I had bought it "new", someone else talking about "damage" when it was actually modifications, and a steadfast refusal to acknowledge that something had gone wrong their end.... at one point I was more or less called a liar by one of their staff, which really angered me! Sadly, I don't have the original purchase docs as it was an internet purchase that would have been saved on the hard drive of my previous computer, which went to the big silicon valley in the sky about 2 years ago, haha. I am absolutely convinced that I was accidentally sent someone else's returned item as a new one, by mistake.

 

Lessons learned, 1. check everything on receipt. 2. print and keep paperwork. 3. don't trust a retailer just because they are big and have been around for a long time!  

 

This was my first ever occasion that I felt the need to contact Hatton's about anything I have ever purchased from them, and in all honestly it leaves a slightly bitter feeling towards buying from them again in the future!

 

I understand how you might feel but to expect a retailer to take action after a few years is asking a bit much.

The moral of the story is to always check everything when it comes even if you only hold a couple of wires to the wheel rims.

A very handy item to have is a rolling road so that when you get a new loco you can give it a quick run before putting it back in its box again.

You can buy a Hornby rolling road for about £50.

[Robin Brasher]

My nearest model railway shop has a test track and they test each locomotive before the customer buys it. There is not much difference in prices between them and Hattons. Perhaps the time has come to support your nearest model shop.