Havenhouse - the reboot

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

I think the common GNR pattern lamp top (like mine) are on the pic titled Boston Platform. I think these are the older pattern, perhaps the GNR society can say when the type was introduced by looking at dated period photos - I would love to know.  The one on the Skegness platform is more like a bought in 'Sugg' pattern although does not confirm fully to one if their 'off the shelf' lamps. I suspect this is a later LNER replacement - were there any building works/extensions there in LNER Days I wonder?   The GNR had a couple of standard lamp post types (some marked GNR in small lettering, others with large scroll-work initials) but also sourced them locally so your posts could be of any design.  Very often these were 'rescued' by locals in the 1970s when modern lighting was installed so it is always worth having a good look in peoples front and back gardens when you are over next. My GNR posts are a platform mounting variety and from N London.

 

I will measure my lamp top when I can get to it (and take a better picture).  I also have plated signalbox/booking office interior hanging lamps, one plated Haven House and one Croft Bank, the old name for the station before it was re-named on 1st August 1900.  Of course these would be invisible inside the signal box/offices.  All these are of course Paraffin fuelled although years ago this was referred to as 'Petroleum Oil', which can be confusing nowadays as using Petrol in them would be 'interesting'!

 

Tony

 

 

 

Tony

Edited May 31, 2016 by Rail-Online

[JCL]

Hi Tony

 

Sorry for the delay in replying, problems with my computer have taken up the last few days on and off, and I wanted to upload a photo. Now, this is all conjecture, but I have a theory that this is what might have happened. Please bear with me while I tell you things you already know.

 

"Very often these were 'rescued' by locals in the 1970s when modern lighting was installed" - thank goodness, or there would be a lot less of our history knocking around now.

 

Please note, this may be boring...

 

When first opened, the line was single track, an the platform walls were an orange brick the same as the station buildings. The platform was a simple box with no ornamentation or overhang. This can be seen at Wainfleet in this photo: https://flic.kr/p/fYSbsw . Note that the platform in the photo was lower than average and a set of steps were needed to safely get onto the train.

 

Eventually the single track went as far as Skegness, and my theory is that the single platform at Croft Bank/Havenhouse was of the same type as Wainfleet and Skegness. All that can be seen of this original platform is a single line of bricks above the level of the ballast which can be seen in the photos I took at the beginning of the year. The layer of orange goes the entire length of the platform.

 

 

When the line was doubled, the new platforms were of a different style with a good overhang and a different brick. Now, interestingly the new platform doesn't seem to have the orange brick layer at the bottom. Obviously this might be because it's hidden, but I'm not so sure.

 

 

There aren't that many photos around, so the only thing I can say is that the original orange brick platform at Havenhouse was rebuilt before the end of the 1950s. It would be interesting to know why this original platform was rebuilt at little used station when the original platform in Wainfleet was kept.

 

 

So, was there originally a GNR gas lamp on the original single track platform, and was this swapped out for what looks like the Suggs style one (looking on Google it really does look like a Suggs) when the platform was rebuilt to the style that it is today? And when was the platform rebuilt?

 

Finally, I wonder what this is, I found it behind the Boston platform the last time I was there. Is it station related or agricultural?

 

 

Everyone can wake up now

[uax6]

That rusty bit of what looks like the tin man is, I think, the flue pipe from a hut. The funnel shaped bit slides over the flue pipe and provides weather protection over the roof area..

 

The rest seems plausible...

 

Andy G

[JCL]

I'm getting on with things. Having the benches and railings already I need to re-finish the platform surface. With the cutter I fave I've draw up some artwork and cut out some 1.3mm chipboard.

 

 

I've a couple of pieces now, so I'll get them glued down and painted today ready for the railings.

 

 

Although the platforms are blackish, the walls of the building are shades of orange, so I've used a spare bit of brickwork to test oranges. The test strip above has white and then grey undercoat, and the white works much better as a base. The colours are in turn Vallejo Light Orange, then the darker patch is Light Orange over brushed with Orange Brown. I think this will be a pretty good combination. On the right is the light orange, then orange brown over grey, but that's too dark.

Edited June 5, 2016 by JCL

[JCL]

Right then, things have moved on a little bit, and I've started relaying the platform top surface. First off, I took those railing posts that I designed a couple of years ago (remember them?) and drilled out the centres. The stupid things are pretty fragile, so for every 10 I drilled I lost 2. In the end the trick was to not press down and to let the hand drill do the work. If the bit started to grab I twisted it anticlockwise ans started again. It's a good job I've got glasses now!

 

 

Now I know that the siding didn't run down the back of the platform, but finished at the ramp, I've started to make the slope down from the road much more gradual.

 

 

And finally, I laid the platform top before adding the pre-threaded railings. I now know the best way of setting up the railings, and it certainly wasn't the way I did it! Good to test one of the benches as well.

 

 

Done now though. a bit of primer to come, and then a trip over to the station colours website, and hopefully I'll have the railing finished before the weekend.

 

I shall have more lamp news in the next post. I know! don't hear from me for a week or so, then everything happens at once.

[JCL]

Having taken Tony's advice I asked Keith in the GNRS about the lamp that was mentioned in the GNRS News magazine. He has also been able to take a series of measurements of the lamp for me so that I can build one in the 3D program, which is great! I will make a 3D printed model of this whether or not it is the same as the one at Havenhouse. If you're reading, thanks Keith.

 

 

The measurements are:

• The base is 15½" square.
• The three equally spaced oval holes are 4¼" x 2". The circumference over the holes is 45½".
• The bottom edge of the letters GNR is 19¾" above the base. The letters are 1" high. The overall width over the three letters is 3¾". The circumference of the post at this point is 16½".
• The bottom edge of the double circular moulding is 42½" above the base. The circumference of the post is 15" below this moulding and 11½" above it.
• The bottom edge of the moulding below the crossbar is 90½" above the base and the circumference of the post at this point is 9½".
• The crossbar boss is 3½" square x 2 1/8" high. The crossbar is 41" long overall and ¾" diameter. The balls at the ends of the crossbar are 1½" diameter.
• The collar, on which the brackets are mounted, is 2¾" diameter x 2½" high.
• My post came without brackets. The ones I have were made by my stepfather and are not of the original design. It would be better for you to copy those from Spalding or Havenhouse.
• The lantern is 8¼" square at the base and 15" square at the tops of the four faces. The top is 15½" square, so an overhang of ¼" all round.The toplight panels are 13½" and 12½" wide x 2 3/8" deep. The letters are 2" high with a 1/8" gap above and ¼" below.
• My lantern has one face with a translucent white toplight, with the station name, and two faces with clear toplights. The fourth face, which I have been unable to photograph, has a crudely hinged door. The original was missing when I received my lamp so I suggest you make the fourth face another clear one.
• The square top rises 3½". The chimney starts with a circumference of 15½", then 10".
• The edge of the cowl is 6½" diameter and it rises 1¼".

If you're still looking in Tony, how do the photos compare to your lamp? The bracket holding the lamp to the post is slightly different, but is the post similar?

 

cheers

 

Jason

Edited June 14, 2016 by JCL

[JCL]

I managed to bag those two photos I mentioned, and showed the lamp extract from, the other day. Basically what I've done is created a search in Ebay that filters out a whole load of rubbish ("Proud to be born in Havenhouse" key-rings, etc), and gives me just the listings I need. I've then done the same for Wainfleet, Skeg, Firsby and Boston, oh and GNR generally - filtering out Slash, Axl Rose and friends is a bit of a task there. The searches are added to my browser as bookmarks and I then click on them once a day.

 

For a station that has one request stop each way daily, and which serves probably less than 100 people, you can imagine my heart was in my mouth when I saw these come up on Ebay. Especially as I've been doing this for a couple of years now. Both photos are about 2" x 3" and pretty sharp, so I've been able to blow them up quite a bit. Unfortunately, apart from the station name and date, there's no other identification on there.

 

The first photo shows a couple of buildings and of course the location of the siding. I'll check the building locations against a map from 1900 later to see if they were there around that time. It also shows what I'm assuming are some coal sacks at the end of the siding. Oh, and generally is just a wonderful scene taken on what looks like a sunny day in 1959 from what looks like a stopping train heading towards Wainfleet. Although this is about 50 years after my timescale, I'm going to assume that things didn't change much. Anyone want to take a punt on what the photographer was hanging out of (other than a window)?

 

 

The second one, which will be good for brick counting due to the clarity and low vegetation, which is pretty mature now, is the full lamp photo which also shows the bench locations, the somersault signal, and signal box.

 

 

Now, if I could get a photo taken in Wainfleet's goods yard showing the back of the shed, then I'd be very happy indeed!

Edited June 14, 2016 by JCL

[uax6]

The top photo is from a DMU I'm guessing from the lining. 4 car?

 

Also note that the platform edge is in good condition in both photos, I doubt that there were even bricks missing like in your model pictures above....

 

Nice fire buckets too. I note there is only two lamps on that platform, not the hundreds that seem to be plonked everywhere on some models!

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Good one, I'd not noticed the one at the back - it's on a good slant there. The bricks missing are an issue with delamination of the material I used, I'll be replacing them though.

 

I know there were Derby lightweights going up and down the line at one point.

Edited June 14, 2016 by JCL

[Theakerr]

Jason,

I don't think those are coal bags, they are too small.  When I saw them I had one of those flashbacks to when I live at Waltham Station.   I think they are bags holding track spikes for the rails/rail plates. possibly the springs for later type rail mounting or the earlier wooden blocks for the traditional mounting chairs.  As such they will be about 18" long and about 9 to 12" diameter

Edited June 15, 2016 by Theakerr

[JCL]

Hi Theakerr, hope you're well, I'm off back to Fernie this summer for a few days. Thanks very much for that. I can also see a load of tools between the track and the shed, so maybe that all ties in.

[ChrisN]

Can I see planking on the side of that coach the picture is taken from?

[chris p bacon]

Can I see planking on the side of that coach the picture is taken from?

Looks like a DMU to me.

[ChrisN]

Sorry, more thoughts.  What is the man on the platform wearing?  Is that a long coat or a trick of the light.  I have no idea of the history of cameras but it has to be taken at a time when good quality cameras that could take pictures quickly were available so the wonderful summer of 1959 would fit but of course it might be earlier.

[chris p bacon]

Sorry, more thoughts.  What is the man on the platform wearing?  Is that a long coat or a trick of the light.  I have no idea of the history of cameras but it has to be taken at a time when good quality cameras that could take pictures quickly were available so the wonderful summer of 1959 would fit but of course it might be earlier.

I think that looks like a short coat with a belt around the waist, around here (Bedfordshire) in the late 60's through to the 70's those working on the fields seemed to wear that style of attire at all times of the year and it's possible that it was similar at Havenhouse as it was, and still is productive land.

[stewartingram]

Almost certainly a 114 dmu I would think at that period.

 

Stewart

[JCL]

Hi Nick, I did think it was planking as well, but I think that Stewart has it. Here's a picture of the train again but this time stretched slightly. What looks like planking is probably windows.

 

 

Here's a plan of what it could be

 

 

Although, there does seem to be something else at the end. I know that the class 114 had three units. Wikipedia says "several 3-car formations were put together using two power cars and one trailer. These were used in the main on Grantham - Boston/Skegness workings during 1957." .. "E50049/E56049 was introduced with 230 hp versions of the power unit, which proved to have a much more acceptable power to weight ratio, and during 1959 and 1960 all the class were fitted with these more powerful engines and settled down to work most Lincolnshire local services (with regular visits to South Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire) for over 25 years."

[JCL]

Oh, and the gentleman in the picture:

 

 

He looks relaxed as he's wandering down to the front of the train for a word.

[Shadow]

Is there a third lamppost just to the right of the name board in the first photo?

Just the column, no glass lantern.

 

Also, just to the right side of that post it appears that the fence bars have been removed. Is this an entrance into the grounded van? Possibly a door?

 

Dave

[Theakerr]

HI Jason,

Will not be in Fernie this year.  Instead plan to meet up with all the family in Revelstoke.  

[JCL]

I've just checked my larger sized photo, and you're right Dave. There's a circle of whitewashed stones around it even though it no longer works. And that is indeed a closed double door, maybe a replacement.

 

Revelstoke's a good place - interesting to get to in the winter from Fernie I can tell you. There is the museum there, and Craigellachie is just down the road.

[jrg1]

I am fairly certain this is a class 114 unit, as the cream lining is carried round the sides and on to the coach ends.  There were Derby Heavyweights and some class 101 units in service in the county at this time, but the 114s overwhelmingly predominated in East Lincolnshire

[Rail-Online]

 

The measurements are:

• The base is 15½" square.
• The three equally spaced oval holes are 4¼" x 2". The circumference over the holes is 45½".
• The bottom edge of the letters GNR is 19¾" above the base. The letters are 1" high. The overall width over the three letters is 3¾". The circumference of the post at this point is 16½".
• The bottom edge of the double circular moulding is 42½" above the base. The circumference of the post is 15" below this moulding and 11½" above it.
• The bottom edge of the moulding below the crossbar is 90½" above the base and the circumference of the post at this point is 9½".
• The crossbar boss is 3½" square x 2 1/8" high. The crossbar is 41" long overall and ¾" diameter. The balls at the ends of the crossbar are 1½" diameter.
• The collar, on which the brackets are mounted, is 2¾" diameter x 2½" high.
• My post came without brackets. The ones I have were made by my stepfather and are not of the original design. It would be better for you to copy those from Spalding or Havenhouse.
• The lantern is 8¼" square at the base and 15" square at the tops of the four faces. The top is 15½" square, so an overhang of ¼" all round.The toplight panels are 13½" and 12½" wide x 2 3/8" deep. The letters are 2" high with a 1/8" gap above and ¼" below.
• My lantern has one face with a translucent white toplight, with the station name, and two faces with clear toplights. The fourth face, which I have been unable to photograph, has a crudely hinged door. The original was missing when I received my lamp so I suggest you make the fourth face another clear one.
• The square top rises 3½". The chimney starts with a circumference of 15½", then 10".
• The edge of the cowl is 6½" diameter and it rises 1¼".

If you're still looking in Tony, how do the photos compare to your lamp? The bracket holding the lamp to the post is slightly different, but is the post similar?

 

Jason,

I am pleased to say the lamp dimensions are identical, the one I think you are missing is the toatal height of the side panel is 15 1/4" (on the slope - not vertical).

As this one is missing its door I can confirm the door panel is plain, no top panel for a name. Some lamps had two name panels, others just one. My Havenhouse has just one.

 

The 'Frog' on mine is original and the dimensions are 10" tall (from the bottom of the ring to the underside of the lamp) the extreme width over the 'curly bits' is 15 1/2".

 

My two posts are significantly shorter at only 70", the GNR is vertical and only about 12" tall. These came from North London and also have intregal cast in ladder bars.

 

Hope this helps

 

Tony

[LNER4479]

I managed to bag those two photos I mentioned, and showed the lamp extract from, the other day. Basically what I've done is created a search in Ebay that filters out a whole load of rubbish ("Proud to be born in Havenhouse" key-rings, etc), and gives me just the listings I need. I've then done the same for Wainfleet, Skeg, Firsby and Boston, oh and GNR generally - filtering out Slash, Axl Rose and friends is a bit of a task there. The searches are added to my browser as bookmarks and I then click on them once a day.

 

For a station that has one request stop each way daily, and which serves probably less than 100 people, you can imagine my heart was in my mouth when I saw these come up on Ebay. Especially as I've been doing this for a couple of years now. Both photos are about 2" x 3" and pretty sharp, so I've been able to blow them up quite a bit. Unfortunately, apart from the station name and date, there's no other identification on there.

 

The first photo shows a couple of buildings and of course the location of the siding. I'll check the building locations against a map from 1900 later to see if they were there around that time. It also shows what I'm assuming are some coal sacks at the end of the siding. Oh, and generally is just a wonderful scene taken on what looks like a sunny day in 1959 from what looks like a stopping train heading towards Wainfleet. Although this is about 50 years after my timescale, I'm going to assume that things didn't change much. Anyone want to take a punt on what the photographer was hanging out of (other than a window)?

 

siding.jpg

 

The second one, which will be good for brick counting due to the clarity and low vegetation, which is pretty mature now, is the full lamp photo which also shows the bench locations, the somersault signal, and signal box.

 

lamp large.jpg

 

Now, if I could get a photo taken in Wainfleet's goods yard showing the back of the shed, then I'd be very happy indeed!

Well that's a b&gger - on Saturday evening I made a start on that signal for you, soldering it up as a (tall) lattice post!! The 'story' therefore will have to be that it (the lattice) was replaced by a concrete post in the intervening years (not inconceivable). When were concrete posts introduced? I'd be surprised to learn that they were around in 1900.

 

Great photo finds, nonetheless.

[JCL]

Thanks 'Robert'. If you remember we spoke about it when I visited and decided to go lattice no matter what. I doubt we will find photos going back anywhere near that far.