relaxinghobby Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well inspired by Knobhead's threads on converting models to older versions of their earlier selves , here is my take on the GWR 517 class. The half cab version of the GWR 14xx most people are familiar with on preservation railways. This conversion is based the Iain Rice drawings in the January 1980 Model Railway News and a Hornby model 14xx as the donor. The 517 body is shorter then the more modern 14xx, the difference seems to be between the back of the wheel splashers and the front of the side tank so about 3 1/2 millimetres was cut from there and the two ends glued back together. The boiler unclips and had 2mm sawn off of the front, the cab and bunker has been cut off at waist height. The hole left by this operation will then built up with plasticard to show the back of the side tanks and cab floor. The motor intrudes into the open cab space so I'll build the floor to go over the motor and hide the hump with the crew figures even if it means sawing off their legs. That hump of the fire box will be cut away later as I am modelling a round top fire box type but it is left there for now to give strength to the body whilst I build up the cab interior. You can see the motor filling up the cab space, not obvious on the full cab version, I hope to hide it with crew figures or another possible cover up is to model the narrow full cab version? A line was score around the smoke box with compasses to mark the position of where to make the saw cut. The various bits of plumbing represented on the boiler will also need removing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 A sketch to show where to make saw cuts on the Hornby body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Good luck with this: looks OK so far. A similar conversion was shown on The Great Western Modelling site: gwr.org.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Good luck with this: looks OK so far. A similar conversion was shown on The Great Western Modelling site: gwr.org.com This one, although I don't think it was such a thorough job as this one will be http://www.gwr.org.uk/pro517.html This is great. You and Knobhead between you are covering all the locos I need to convert! Is the Hornby 14xx the same as the Airfix one, or have changes been made to the body or chassis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2012 This one, although I don't think it was such a thorough job as this one will be http://www.gwr.org.uk/pro517.html This is great. You and Knobhead between you are covering all the locos I need to convert! Is the Hornby 14xx the same as the Airfix one, or have changes been made to the body or chassis? The motor is quite different, the Airfix one is bigger and sticks further into the cab. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobhead Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Will follow your project with considerable interest, Relaxinghobby! Might have to copy you later on. Regards, Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The motor is quite different, the Airfix one is bigger and sticks further into the cab. Keith Thanks. I've just had a look at mine, without taking the body off, and it looks like an open cab would be a big problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2012 Thanks. I've just had a look at mine, without taking the body off, and it looks like an open cab would be a big problem. Hornby re-worked the chassis quite a bit. IIRC the Airfix motor drives the (front?) axle through a universal joint to the gear. The motor's brushes get itheir power connexion directly from the wheel pickups by a spring contact and the chassis with a metal clip, there isn't any wiring. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hornby re-worked the chassis quite a bit. IIRC the Airfix motor drives the (front?) axle through a universal joint to the gear. The motor's brushes get itheir power connexion directly from the wheel pickups by a spring contact and the chassis with a metal clip, there isn't any wiring. Keith So I will have to put another of my decades old plans into action then, and do a 517 with a dummy coach body, to hide the motor. Haven't found a picture online yet, but here's a brief mention of them http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61637-autocoach-locomotives/#entry787246 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2012 So I will have to put another of my decades old plans into action then, and do a 517 with a dummy coach body, to hide the motor. Haven't found a picture online yet, but here's a brief mention of them http://www.rmweb.co....es/#entry787246 Just looked at one of my Airfix 14XXs, it is front wheel drive and the motor goes almost to the back of the cab/bunker area so definitely not suitable for an open cab conversion! You could try replacing the rather larger Airfix motor with a small Mashima or similar mounted further forward, without a universal joint. It would mean some chassis hacking to make it fit though! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 For the Airfix chassis I guess that a small modern motor to replace the big old Airfix XO4 type would make an adaptation to the full cab 517 possible. A cradle to hold the Mashima type motor in the big space left by Airfix's original one. May be no further modification would be needed, plasticard could be used to make the cradle. In the mean time I have been building up the cab area on my conversion, the aim is to disguise the motor and strengthen the cab-to-bunker area so that the doors can be cut out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 With this sort of model work there are no instructions so a lot of it is trial and error. The picture shows the curved tops to the bunker have been glued on. they are strips of plastic pen body cut into lengths to get the curve. I 'll file them to their final shape when the glue is well and truly set. The fire box top has been sawn off. On the boiler shell all the lumps have been carved away and filed smooth. The chassis is mummified with masking tape to protect the mechanism from saw dust, I am going to have to file/saw/hack the top off of the front chassis block to allow the boiler to be in a lower position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Here's one I prepared earlier, a stalled project. Working to the Beattie drawings in the Month? 19XX Railway Modeller I hacked another body about and ended up with a model too narrow to fit on the etched chassis, there is nowhere for the coupling rods to go up and down. I got them both as a dead project from an exhibition junk sale, I think the chassis is a Millholme Model etch for the Hornby or Airfix body, I cut so much of it off the back it does not work any more. Working to the Beattie drawings I got a loco that was much shorter in the cab and bunker area. It's been put away out of sight for years. The gear box is a Branchlines Multibox driving the front axle, the motor a Mashima and there's still room for that fantastic gadget to enable smooth running, far better than any DCC chip, a mechanical flywheel. Pity I could not get the back wheel to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Meanwhile back at the current adaptation, if I reduce the height of the tanks to match the drawing I will have to take a lot of metal off of the chassis, so here on in, this model is a bit of a compromise unless I can find a picture of one of the many variations of the 517 tanks that were over the years. All photographs welcome. Bunker flare made from a plastic pen body, cut lengthwise to give a quarter angle, glued to top of bunker and when the glue has set, filed to shape. Some semi-circles glued to splashers for detail. More plastic removed from boiler sides and smoke box front, I will glue it back into the body about 2mm lower than it was originally. A cab made. The steps and footplate valence details cut and fiddled to fit under the footplate, you can see two rejected, back-footplate sides there in front of the crew. The crew are Dapol and Preiser, both have had major leg surgery so they can fit into the cab, such is the call of duty in 4mm land. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 And here again from the side, I'm going to have to cut the top off of the chassis to let the boiler rest in a new lower position. New beading has been stuck onto the side of the cab in the bunker area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Still working on the 517 despite it seeming to be too tall and wide in the tanks, on sawing off of the top of the chassis carcass to fit it under the lowered boiler I found a big hole there. Was it a bubble left over from the metal casting process? Any way more places to put some lead weights and increase the loco's ballast. The box hiding the motor where it protrudes into the cab does not seem too big from this angle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 3, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2013 , on sawing off of the top of the chassis carcass to fit it under the lowered boiler I found a big hole there. Was it a bubble left over from the metal casting process? Could it be left over from when Hornby re-motored this loco? IIRC the Airfix originals drive on the front axle.The general shape of the castings are similar but allow for a different motor position. Maybe Hornby just "patched" the moulds. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Good to be able to see your working, (as my old Maths teacher used to say) Looking forward to seeing your results, I am currently fettling a 14xx with a brass chassis to work in P4, this will be a BR Version of a 58XX, but, I would like to be able to build a 517 to be able to run older stock. Luckily the photo I have seen of a 517 on the LLanfyllin Branch has an enclosed cab Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Now having studied the 517 and 14xx 0-4-2t classes I have realised that the older 517 were quite a bit smaller than their later 14xx descedants, I now realise an all new model would have been better, for P4 there is the Micheal Finney kit? But I shall carry on with this one and hope to get to the painting stage soon. But at least I have a runner as it is, one advantage of starting with a runner is that I usually, but not always, end up with a runner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Now having studied the 517 and 14xx 0-4-2t classes I have realised that the older 517 were quite a bit smaller than their later 14xx descedants, I now realise an all new model would have been better, for P4 there is the Micheal Finney kit? But I shall carry on with this one and hope to get to the painting stage soon. But at least I have a runner as it is, one advantage of starting with a runner is that I usually, but not always, end up with a runner. Anyone want to swap an EM converted Airfix 14xx for a complete EM 517 kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 In regards to the chassis, it was actually Dapol who re engineered it, not Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Hello everyone, I also have converted an Airfix/Dapol/Hornby 14XX to a 517 class. (Its body was made by Airfix, but the chassis is a Dapol replacement.) My model is of a late survivor - 848 - which worked on the Mid-Wales line in the 1930s. I have modelled her as illustrated in Great Western Railway Journal #75 (Oswestry, 23 Aug 1938) and in Cambrian Railways Album - 2 (Brecon, 6 Sep 1936). She was one of the long wheelbase examples with outside bearings on the trailing wheels, as shown in the drawing on page 22 of Model Railways, Jan 1980, so was the same length as the donor model. Conversion was fairly simple, mainly requiring a new cab and replacement sand boxes and tool boxes. Here's my effort: Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Thanks Rob for your photo, this will help to show people what can be done with the original 14xx body. I guess once you removed the cab you had to build up the tanks and make a replacement narrow cab? All in plasticard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosiesBoss Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 G'day, relaxinghobby, It was a faiirly simple task, really. I left the tanks as they were, but cut off the cab, as you suggested. I fabricated the new one from copper sheet - easy to work and solder, but strong once assembled and easy to fix in place with cyanoacrylate adhesive. The brass window frames were made from driving wheel bearings! Replacement whistles and buffers were new commercial items. Regards, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Here we are with the 14XX very much a 517 class now. The first coat of paint to show any blemishes, holes filled and rubbed down. Details such as hand rails need to be added, the chassis tided up, couplings etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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