Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

Has he been drinking? His coupling rods have gone all wobbly.

 

It's not Boris in disguise, is it?

[chrisf]

Returning to important things (!), R C Riley photographed a teak liveried coach at Newton Abbot in July 1958.   The photo appears in Steam Days for December 1995.

 

Chris

[coachmann]

I wondered if anyone has come across a good clear photo (preferably in colour) of a Gresley corridor coach in plain brown paint (as distinct from grained teak). Sometime such treasures are in the background.

 

On a similar tack, I have a Backtrack picture showing LNWR non-corridor coaches in early BR carmine, which is conclusive evidence rather than an assumption that these vehicles would automatically get that livery anyway. I say this because pictures of LNWR corridor coaches in BR red & cream are as rare as hens teeth despite some lasting until the late 1950's.

Edited August 15, 2014 by coachmann

[unclebobkt]

DSC_8413.JPG

 

  ... .

  Here's the PDK B16/1 I'm building, under test at an early stage. Sweet, smooth and just about run-in after a few laps as just a chassis (in front of its pleased eventual owner) and now, with connecting rods on and the minimum amount of weight, able to haul a modest load to complete her trials. Everything from now on is just body construction, apart from finishing off the cylinders.

  ... .

 

 

 -- Re the above-mentioned B16/1. presently under construction - in the 'real' world of 12":1'. what advantages, if any,  were there to the outside pistons being connected to the leading drivers as opposed to the centre pair?

 - Possibly shorter conn. rods might lead to LOWER hammer-blows?

 - But I'll await PDK., (Pretty D*mn Knowledgeable), persons' replies!

[gr.king]

I'll gladly stand corrected, but I believe the reason for that drive layout stems entirely from the North Eastern's ideas on 3 cylinder drive, seeking to keep all cylinders in line, in the same casting if possible, low down (out of the way of a big boiler if required ) and more or less horizontal (thus not imparting vertical thrusts to the wheels), probably with all three con-rods of the same length too. Those goals cannot be realised if drive is onto the second or third coupled wheelset as the leading set's axle is then in the way. The extra length that the loco acquires by virtue of the need to avoid excessively short con-rods may I suspect be a nuisance rather than an asset when it comes to boiler design and weight distribution.

 

(Later added note: Although Gresley managed to place all three cylinders in line on his first 3 cylinder loco, using the pre-Holcroft conjugated valve gear, and got the drive more conventionally onto the second coupled wheelset, he had to incline all three cylinders at around 1 in 8 to achieve that. Whilst this was thought acceptable on a slow-slogging 2-8-0 mineral haulage loco, I'm not sure if it would be acceptable on a fast mixed traffic or express loco to have a significant component of all three piston thrusts acting vertically, trying to pump the wheels up and down on their springs and (perhaps) encouraging the loco to rock from side to side! His final arrangement with the Holcroft inspired valve gear and the drive still onto the second axle required inclination of only the middle cylinder, still not ideal I suppose but more neutral in its effects by virtue of that inclined cylinder being near the centre line of the loco. The combined casting for the three cylinders looked a bit odd of course with the middle one out of line with the other two. Nearly all "solutions" to problems are a compromise in one way or another, introducing new problems that did not exist before the "solution" was applied!)

Edited August 16, 2014 by gr.king

[Guest 2750]

Latest loco in my care I've weathered for Mr Wright. This was the DMR K1 that was posted in this thread a few months back. I've worked from a photo Tony suggested in 'Working Steam LNER 2-6-0s' page 48, of a K1 on the turntable at Darlington. The loco is grubby but tender lining still visable. Cab lining was obscure in a number of places, which I've reduced slightly on the model. Smokebox is a warmer brown colour than the boiler in the photo, which I've tried to replicate on the model. Another area I've tired show (using Klear) is water leaking from the cylinder casing.

 

 

 

The K1 will be returned to Tony this weekend.

Edited August 15, 2014 by 2750

[Mallard60022]

Tom, I can remember when you were 'worried' about trying to start building a kit..........how things have changed and I realise you didn't build this particular loco (or did you?) but what a superb job you have done on weathering it. There is a profession out there for you mate.

Fancy a commission for a couple of 'Spams'?

Sincerely, Phil

[Guest 2750]

Tom, I can remember when you were 'worried' about trying to start building a kit..........how things have changed and I realise you didn't build this particular loco (or did you?) but what a superb job you have done on weathering it. There is a profession out there for you mate.

Fancy a commission for a couple of 'Spams'?

Sincerely, Phil

 

Hi Phil

My kit building is in it's infancy still, but it's something I want to develop to the point I feel as comfortable building as I do weathering. One of my handicaps has been the size of my workbench, and I find I've not got enough room. However things are to change, with my current workbench being kept for weathering (it's in the window so good ventilation). My main workbench will be along a wall (where there is currently a single bed...not for much longer) which will allow a workbench of 6ft by 2ft. This will give me plenty of room for getting on with finishing my J25, that Tony kindly helped me with in the beginning. A J27 and Q5 will be next on the agenda once the J25 is done....plus Gresley Coaches!

 

Regarding commissions, drop me a PM and I'm sure we can sort something out!

[bluebottle]

Completely OT, and maybe OTT -

 I like your current avatar, Phil, but I keep forgetting to read the actual posts ...

 

[peach james]

 -- Re the above-mentioned B16/1. presently under construction - in the 'real' world of 12":1'. what advantages, if any,  were there to the outside pistons being connected to the leading drivers as opposed to the centre pair?

 - Possibly shorter conn. rods might lead to LOWER hammer-blows?

 - But I'll await PDK., (Pretty D*mn Knowledgeable), persons' replies!

 

The CPR Jubilee's (F2A and F1A's) differed in where the piston rods were connected.  It was done for speed related reasons- the F2A's were supposed to be faster, as proven by the run on Smiths Falls Sub at 112 mph. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-4-4

 

I'd assume that shorter would be better- in that the less reciprocating weight is a good reason to shorten the rods.  Reducing the mass will decrease a lot of hammer blow on the track, I'm not sure what the formula is, but I do know that there are several ones that give an approximate hammer blow force.  So, by connecting to the front axle, you can reduce the unballancing weight.

[will5210]

Latest loco in my care I've weathered for Mr Wright. This was the DMR K1 that was posted in this thread a few months back. I've worked from a photo Tony suggested in 'Working Steam LNER 2-6-0s' page 48, of a K1 on the turntable at Darlington. The loco is grubby but tender lining still visable. Cab lining was obscure in a number of places, which I've reduced slightly on the model. Smokebox is a warmer brown colour than the boiler in the photo, which I've tried to replicate on the model. Another area I've tired show (using Klear) is water leaking from the cylinder casing.

 

_MG_7790.jpg

 

_MG_7797.jpg

 

The K1 will be returned to Tony this weekend.

 

Your best yet I'd say!

[Theakerr]

Sorry folks, got finger hit post button without reading through what I had typed.  What I meant to say was it would be nice to see some Gresley or Thompson coaches in their teak finish but with BR (as opposed to LNER) running numbers.  I am not sure about Thompson coaches but I can clearly remember seeing Gresley coaches still in very dirty "teak" finish on the Grimsby to Peterborough (London) trains as they came through Waltham.  I also remember seeing articulated coaches on the same trains but I cannot remember if they were in Blood and Custard.   Note I did get a couple of Hornby Gresleys with BR running numbers through the deals on the Olympic sets.  Anyone want an N2 since it was the coaches I was after.  

[Guest 2750]

Your best yet I'd say!

 

That's very kind of you Will. I must admit, I'm rather chuffed with how the K1 has turned out. I'm also very grateful for the number of likes the K1 has received. Many thanks all, I don't think I've ever got so many for a loco I've weathered.

 

I look forward to handing her over to Mr Wright on Sunday.

[Ian Smeeton]

 

 

Contrary to rumours, I think an occasion added smoke picture makes a neat change.....

WEB Andy Y special.jpg

Love it, Coach, but isn't the smoke coming from the wrong orifice?

 

Hat, coat,.... stop that bus!!!!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[jrg1]

I wondered if anyone has come across a good clear photo (preferably in colour) of a Gresley corridor coach in plain brown paint (as distinct from grained teak). Sometime such treasures are in the background.

 

On a similar tack, I have a Backtrack picture showing LNWR non-corridor coaches in early BR carmine, which is conclusive evidence rather than an assumption that these vehicles would automatically get that livery anyway. I say this because pictures of LNWR corridor coaches in BR red & cream are as rare as hens teeth despite some lasting until the late 1950's.

I have seen one picture of a GC Barnum at Nottingham Victoria in Crimson and Cream livery-most unsuitable in my opinion!

[jrg1]

I'll gladly stand corrected, but I believe the reason for that drive layout stems entirely from the North Eastern's ideas on 3 cylinder drive, seeking to keep all cylinders in line, in the same casting if possible, low down (out of the way of a big boiler if required ) and more or less horizontal (thus not imparting vertical thrusts to the wheels), probably with all three con-rods of the same length too. Those goals cannot be realised if drive is onto the second or third coupled wheelset as the leading set's axle is then in the way. The extra length that the loco acquires by virtue of the need to avoid excessively short con-rods may I suspect be a nuisance rather than an asset when it comes to boiler design and weight distribution.

 

(Later added note: Although Gresley managed to place all three cylinders in line on his first 3 cylinder loco, using the pre-Holcroft conjugated valve gear, and got the drive more conventionally onto the second coupled wheelset, he had to incline all three cylinders at around 1 in 8 to achieve that. Whilst this was thought acceptable on a slow-slogging 2-8-0 mineral haulage loco, I'm not sure if it would be acceptable on a fast mixed traffic or express loco to have a significant component of all three piston thrusts acting vertically, trying to pump the wheels up and down on their springs and (perhaps) encouraging the loco to rock from side to side! His final arrangement with the Holcroft inspired valve gear and the drive still onto the second axle require inclination of only the middle cylinder, still not ideal I suppose but more neutral in its effects by virtue of that inclined cylinder being near the centre line of the loco. The combined casting for the three cylinders looked a bit odd of course with the middle one out of line with the other two. Nearly all "solutions" to problems are a compromise in one way or another, introducing new problems that did not exist before the "solution" was applied!)

An instructive explanation.  The Gresley arrangement had far more levers, and therefore pins to wear and slop, affecting events.  Peter Townsend's comments in Top Shed on the Holcroft-Gresley conjugating gear are instructive-he opined that the gear was perfectly fine with adequate maintenance.  The problem with the NER arrangement was that all gear was inside-crank and three sets of eccentrics squeezed onto one axle-difficulty to design and maintain adequately.  As for compromises, the W1 locomotive was regarded as inferior in free running to the Pacifics, as the  valve/piston ratio was slightly less-to get the cylinders into the frames with the correct boiler centre line.

Personally, I thought that 3461, the original Gresley 3-cylinder engine should have been preserved-uniquely historical, and an engineering milestone-along with the first GC N5 (Belpaire boiler) 

[bgman]

Eric Treacy photographed a Gresley coach in teak in 1957....There couldn't have been many by this time, in fact it is possible the publisher got the date wrong anyway. I saw a good few 'brown' coaches on the Woodhead line at Newton, Hyde, prior to electrification in 1954.

 

Contrary to rumours, I think an occasion added smoke picture makes a neat change.....

WEB Andy Y special.jpg

Shouldn't that picture be on page three of Steam magazine ?

[coachmann]

I have seen one picture of a GC Barnum at Nottingham Victoria in Crimson and Cream livery-most unsuitable in my opinion!

It must have looked dire. The late John Fozard told me about just such a photo so it may have been one he was printing for Mr.Casserley. John also came across a photo of a LNWR 'Toplight' corridor coach in blood & custard somewhere on the Eastern Region.

[jrg1]

It must have looked dire. The late John Fozard told me about just such a photo so it may have been one he was printing for Mr.Casserley. John also came across a photo of a LNWR 'Toplight' corridor coach in blood & custard somewhere on the Eastern Region.

The Toplight could have been on the M&GNR; various LNWR vehicles were cascaded there.  What liveries would the Barnums have normally carried in the fifties?  I wish to build a couple for my layout, set in the mid1950s.

[coachmann]

The Toplight could have been on the M&GNR; various LNWR vehicles were cascaded there.  What liveries would the Barnums have normally carried in the fifties?  I wish to build a couple for my layout, set in the mid1950s.

They would have looked like this in BR says....

 

[S.A.C Martin]

Now that is gorgeous.

[unclebobkt]

 

  ... .

His, [Gresley's],  final arrangement with the Holcroft inspired valve gear and the drive still onto the second axle required inclination of only the middle cylinder, still not ideal I suppose but more neutral in its effects by virtue of that inclined cylinder being near the centre line of the loco. The combined casting for the three cylinders looked a bit odd of course with the middle one out of line with the other two. Nearly all "solutions" to problems are a compromise in one way or another, introducing new problems that did not exist before the "solution" was applied!)

 

 -- Holcroft worked at Swindon under Churchward and designed his valve-gear under that great man's eye.  (Strange - seeing that the GWR. was wedded to either two or to four cylinder locos.;  but possibly a useful & engineering exercise that later paid-off?),.

 - It was Churchward who advised Holcroft to patent his design;  just as well, fiancially,  with Gresley looking-at solutions to his three cylinder problems.

 -- After Swindon I believe that Holcroft moved to one of the Kentish railways that was absorbed by the SR..

 

 -- Bulleid, Gresley's asst,  and thus possibly influenced by Gresley,  was another one for three cylinder locos.;  he had his own 'Solution', of course!

 

 -- But, reverting to drive on the leading axle,  didn't one of the Scottish railways have at least one class of locos with both inside & outside cyls. driving the leading pair of its 4-6-0s.? 

Edited August 17, 2014 by unclebobkt

[jwealleans]

Wasn't the conjugated gear patented jointly by Holcroft and Gresley?  Gresley also tried to recruit Holcroft onto the staff at Doncaster but his CME (Maunsell?  SECR, I believe) wouldn't release him.

[silverlink]

Just had a great weekend at our annual show at Pickering where we had a surprise visit from non other than Mr Tony Wright and his wife Mo. They stayed the whole weekend helping us with the show and we soon had him working a top layout in keeping with his high standards!!!!

Also managed a photo with him in front of perfect backdrop The LNER Coach Association stand, note the new Moquette seat covering as used in the presently been restored Thompson Dia 329 corridor third coach at Pickering.

Ian H

Scarborough & District Railway Modellers 

 

[Guest 2750]

 

So Tony was doing more than just digitally altering the skies.........finally the real Little Bytham is revealed for all to see!

Edited August 17, 2014 by 2750