Wright writes.....

[chris p bacon]

Beautiful model, as the sound it "just hangs in the air", it simply sounds artificial.

I'm not fussed about sound, a friend has it in 2mm finescale and I must admit it's pretty good but he has taken time with speakers and settings.

 

With it sounding 'artificial',  you are watching a model probably not recorded with broadcast quality film & sound equipment, uploaded to a host site then dare I say replayed through a PC with average quality speakers, nothing will sound that good compared to the original.

We all hear differently as well, I have 100% in my left ear but only 30% in my right**, whatever anyone else hears will be completely different to me as I am missing certain frequencies, it could be said that as I was born in 62 and don't remember steam at all, I've possibly never heard what the real thing should sound like.  I know when speaking to my consultant and discussing hearling loss, he stated that no 2 people hear things the same as the brain will pick out different frequencies when it translates the soundwaves.

 

 

** when the Consultant tried to pin down the loss I did mention several cab rides in Deltics in the late 70's standing between Driver & Secondman, on my 3rd visit he said he'd looked them up on Youtube and said "bit of a noisy beast" but the wrong frequency to affect me, from that I took it that should I get the chance, then a further cab ride would do no harm and would even be beneficial.

[Pacific231G]

I think if you are going to go DCC then you need to go the whole hog. My friend Steve Baldock, who has forgotten more about making real steam engines than most will ever know, has turned his hand to S7 and produced some MOK loco kits with added extras.

 

Tim

That is amazing, a brilliant job, I even found myself wondering why no steam was coming from the whistle!  I also kind of wondered whether there should be a few whisps  when it was at rest but steam (OK water vapour I know steam is an invisible gas) has always seemed like the missing visual ingreedient. The vapour, whatever it is, even looked the part and that's really difficult to scale. It sounded fine to my ears.

[The Johnster]

I'm not fussed about sound, a friend has it in 2mm finescale and I must admit it's pretty good but he has taken time with speakers and settings.

 

With it sounding 'artificial',  you are watching a model probably not recorded with broadcast quality film & sound equipment, uploaded to a host site then dare I say replayed through a PC with average quality speakers, nothing will sound that good compared to the original.

We all hear differently as well, I have 100% in my left ear but only 30% in my right**, whatever anyone else hears will be completely different to me as I am missing certain frequencies, it could be said that as I was born in 62 and don't remember steam at all, I've possibly never heard what the real thing should sound like.  I know when speaking to my consultant and discussing hearling loss, he stated that no 2 people hear things the same as the brain will pick out different frequencies when it translates the soundwaves.

 

 

** when the Consultant tried to pin down the loss I did mention several cab rides in Deltics in the late 70's standing between Driver & Secondman, on my 3rd visit he said he'd looked them up on Youtube and said "bit of a noisy beast" but the wrong frequency to affect me, from that I took it that should I get the chance, then a further cab ride would do no harm and would even be beneficial.

 

 

 

I like it; Deltic cab rides on prescription!  Never rode on one, but if 37s are anything to go by, the cabs were very noisy.  The engine noise was well enough suppressed, but the generator, a constant roar, wasn't.  My general impression, backed up by limited experience on 50s, was that noise suppression in the cabs was not English Electric's strongest point, certainly not compared to Brush or the excellent quiet cabs of Westerns and Warships.

[The Johnster]

I think if you are going to go DCC then you need to go the whole hog. My friend Steve Baldock, who has forgotten more about making real steam engines than most will ever know, has turned his hand to S7 and produced some MOK loco kits with added extras.

 

 

Tim

 

That is pretty impressive, but to my ears still a bit tinny and lacking in depth soundwise, and, while white noise is fine for safety valves, blowers, and ejectors, it is not quite on the money for chuffs, which need to indicate to the listener the throttle and cut-off settings and can range from a gentle, slightly woolly and ill-defined puff to a sharp, staccato-attack, bark.  Carping criticism; this is the best attempt I've seen, by a long way, though!

Edited March 10, 2017 by The Johnster

[Black Marlin]

I half expected the fireman to climb down and start greasing her up! 

I believe there are popular calendars depicting very similar scenarios...

[glo41f]

Tim

 

Your friend is to be congratulated for pushing the envelope even more. I would love to know the secrets inside!  Can you persuade him to reveal these?

 

Truly amazing.

 

Martin Long

[PupCam]

A few pages ago when it was the 'P4 doesn't run reliably' debate, I posted about a very large P4 layout of Welwyn North that ran well and looked good,

I haven't seen that post but I'd love to hear (and see) more about this if you would be so kind!

 

Alan

[chris p bacon]

I haven't seen that post but I'd love to hear (and see) more about this if you would be so kind!

 

Alan

Sadly not possible now as the modeller has passed away (2 years) and his stock been split up around the family.

 

It was quite something watching it evolve, 2 of us built the room it was in ( above a triple+ garage) and it measured approx 36'x 10'.  Each time I visited I saw more progress and it was a purely lone venture, P4, ply & rivet with copperclad turnouts. The era was LNER 1925 onwards with every item of stock being kit built.  Lord only knows where he found the time !

[Enterprisingwestern]

  Lord only knows where he found the time !

 

Like all of us I suspect, eventually he didn't.

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

I've just returned from a really splendid day at the East Anglian Exhibition at Wood Green Animal Shelter, Godmanchester. 

 

I'm just a very small part of the team operating Grantham. 

 

Looking around this morning, there were a few examples of the hands of God, poking and re-railing things, but most had settled down by the afternoon. And, guess what, the best-running layout I saw was in P4. Admittedly it was diesel-outline and things ran incredibly slowly but it worked; perfectly. Better than some OO layouts I might say. And, guess again, it was DCC!

 

I take my hat off to the builders and operators of this Scottish Region layout. Will it make me change my own modelling? Probably (definitely) not, but it shows it can be done. Anyway, by implication, it seems I give up too easily, so it's a step too far! 

 

I'll post pictures tomorrow. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

I suddenly remembered I'd taken these pictures of Portchullin, at St Albans, two years ago. 

 

 

 

 

A lovely layout. All it needs is a backscene in my opinion. There is a white-painted back-board, but distant hills would really make it. 

[grob1234]

.

Edited March 12, 2017 by grob1234

[PupCam]

Sadly not possible now as the modeller has passed away (2 years) and his stock been split up around the family.

 

It was quite something watching it evolve, 2 of us built the room it was in ( above a triple+ garage) and it measured approx 36'x 10'.  Each time I visited I saw more progress and it was a purely lone venture, P4, ply & rivet with copperclad turnouts. The era was LNER 1925 onwards with every item of stock being kit built.  Lord only knows where he found the time !

Sorry to hear that.   As a lapsed P4 modeller and an enthusiast of all things LNER (particularly if they came from Doncaster ) I know Welwyn North well so would have been fascinated to see it.    I particularly like models of real locations I know, which might explain why I spent so much time looking at Copenhagen Fields when it was at Stevenage in January.    It is a spectacular representation of the scene and, if you get the eye-line right, you are instantly transported into the middle of a wonderful Eric Treacy photograph - what could be better?   I very much enjoyed Biggleswade when it appeared at St Albans a good few years ago for the same reason.    Anyway, perhaps I'll have to stop playing with aeroplanes and become a bit more active in railway modelling again in some way, shape or form.    In the meantime, I can be transported to my youth by watching some of the excellent videos of Tony's LB although, for the full effect, I would really need to be lying down on a GNR wooden floored, lattice footbridge with my head wedged in one of the diamond shaped holes, straining to hear an approaching but distant Deltic.  Happy days!

 

Alan

Edited March 12, 2017 by PupCam

[jimwal]

I suddenly remembered I'd taken these pictures of Portchullin, at St Albans, two years ago. 

 

Portchullin 03.jpg

 

Portchullin 04.jpg

 

Portchullin 05.jpg

 

A lovely layout. All it needs is a backscene in my opinion. There is a white-painted back-board, but distant hills would really make it. 

 

Also well set up and adjusted sound.

A excellent all round show enjoyed by three friends and myself. Plus good refreshments reasonably priced.

 

I fit DCC for others but do not get involved with any of the settings unless requested to, then usually only the address. For some people DCC adds another dimension to the hobby, to tweak every 'configuration variable' to how they want it. Some of the sound decoders seem to have a cosiderable number of these. Add in smoke, various lighting functions and accsesory decoders, it can be very involved.

DCC expands the hobby and can bring new people in, particularly younger generations, but it is still optional.

 

My own layout is DC only, I have not the interest or finance to do my own.  DCC has its own test track and controller.

 

Seeing the 4MT loco further back on the thread with more smoke than any I've seen or fitted, might smoking locos be banned in public places?.

 

Jim

Edited March 14, 2017 by jimwal

[Richard E]

Had a good day at Wood Green yesterday, spent over an hour watching Grantham and chatting with Tony and a couple of other RMWebbers - thank you gentlemen for a very pleasant time.

[coachmann]

Recent discussion about trains going round continuous type layouts reminded me of something from my young days. I must have been about 7 years old when it occurred to me I had only seen trains on the move and I wanted to know what they sounded like stopping and starting. This ruled out my usual haunt beside the Woodhead line while at my grans in Newton (Hyde), so I took it in my head that it was time to go walkies around our new town (Oldham) and discover a few things for myself. I simply followed the sound of whistling and eventually arrived at Oldham Clegg Street station. Peering over a sleeper-built wall, I saw a loco (Delph Donkey train) and so I waited for it to start off. In the meantime I saw plenty of locos coasting downgrade into the adjacent Central Station as well as setting off on the climb to Mumps Bridge. Wow!  So how does this fit in with modelling? Well, if Tony W. was inspired by watching mostly passing trains from a lineside fence, hence his model railway layout, it was and is the sight and sound of trains stopping and starting that inspires me every time. I wonder what inspires younger members when planning to build a layout.

Edited March 13, 2017 by coachmann

[Tony Wright]

Having just spent a most-pleasant weekend at the East Anglian Exhibition near Godmanchester, may I please thank all those with whom I spoke for giving me a series of most-stimulating conversations? May I also thank all the organising team as well? 

 

My role was as one of the operators of Grantham and (once all had settled down) it worked very well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

During the course of the show, video footage was taken for a future production. Part of that footage was a bit of a replication of the Stirling Single's run in 1938 using period stock for the Flying Scotsman of its day. Since it isn't the right loco nor the absolutely correct stock, then it's a bit compromised. However, it did look the part, trundling by. The scratch-built loco belongs to Dan Pinnock and the train is the work of Jonathan Wealleans. For the past two years, the loco has been in a cabinet at LOCOMOTION or at shows, highlighting the forthcoming RTR model. It's now back safely with Dan. 

 

 

I didn't get much of a chance to take many pictures (and three were corrupted), but here's a typical late-'30s Grantham scene. 

 

Over the last few days, I've discussed DCC with Carlisle's owner (David Johnson) and Barry Oliver who installs many of the decoders into the vast loco stud. 

 

 

 

We all agreed that to control such an enormous layout DCC was the only option - unless thousands of switches and miles of cable were to be employed. Having operated it, it does work; mainly because of the considerable expertise of the likes of Barry, Mike Edge and Graham Varley (among others). It's interesting to note that only the locos are controlled by DCC. All the signals and pointwork are controlled by 'traditional' methods, replicating the siting of the various 'boxes. To have everything controlled from one 'tablet' was considered a recipe for complete confusion.  

 

It also works because the majority of locos are kit-built (very well-built), with enormous reserves of power. I don't believe for one moment an RTR Duchess would shift that beautiful rake of Larry Goddard carriages. They're not stiff-runners, just all brass and white metal. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Tony Wright

[jacko]

great photos Tony. Looks like Carlisle has suffered a massive earthquake - didn't feel it up here in the borders

[New Haven Neil]

As a confirmed long term (almost 20 years) DCC user, I don't use it for point control either - never saw the point (oops) as it takes longer to call up such a function than to change via a more traditional method, although it may save some wire. But for loco control....much easier.  All the difficulties described earlier in the discussion have explanations and cures, but lets not go there again!

 

The photos of the superb Stirling Single make me very happy.  What a great model, a tribute to its builder. As for Carlisle, I would so love to see that when 'finished'. My dream would be a similar scope of layout, based on Newcastle Central.

[Re6/6]

Neil, I dug out a couple of pictures of a Stirling Single 'in the brass' It was made by the late Nigel Hunt and he even manufactured the wheels himself!

It's out there somewhere as it was sold a few years ago out of his estate.

 

 

[Re6/6]

A couple more with it on Nigel's layout.

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

As a confirmed long term (almost 20 years) DCC user, I don't use it for point control either - never saw the point (oops) as it takes longer to call up such a function than to change via a more traditional method, although it may save some wire. But for loco control....much easier.  All the difficulties described earlier in the discussion have explanations and cures, but lets not go there again!

 

The photos of the superb Stirling Single make me very happy.  What a great model, a tribute to its builder. As for Carlisle, I would so love to see that when 'finished'. My dream would be a similar scope of layout, based on Newcastle Central.

We have no idea who the builder is. The loco came up for auction about 45 years ago, and Dan Pinnock bought it - for £25.00! Though it's not signed, the paintwork has that 'Brackenborough' quality. 

 

Dan asked me to look at it about two years ago because it was a non-runner. It has an old K's tender-drive mechanism and all it really needed was a thorough clean and a few adjustments; it now runs well - well, as well as a K's tender-drive could be expected to run. I fixed it, then I showed it to LOCOMOTION representatives at a show, who asked to borrow it. So, Dan hasn't seen if over two years. Still, he's getting an Ivatt Atlantic as a deserved 'thank you' for his lending such a lovely-looking loco. 

 

The other Stirling Single I've had in that time was the one belonging to the late Gerald Scarborough. That's been sold. 

[batrapyr]

Having just spent a most-pleasant weekend at the East Anglian Exhibition near Godmanchester, may I please thank all those with whom I spoke for giving me a series of most-stimulating conversations? May I also thank all the organising team as well? 

 

 

I, too, was at the East Anglian Exhibition, arriving mid-afternoon, and was very impressed with both the layouts and the friendliness of those working over the weekend. Walking though the main entrance and being 'hit' by Overlord was an experience I won't forget in a hurry. I am a definite newbie, so apologies if this layout is well-known on this Forum, however having not seen it before I was somewhat overwhelmed. Not just by the model itself but also by the information available to viewers. It was a credit to the Club members who had taken so much time and trouble build and maintain it. Having established something of a benchmark for the show I was really looking forward to what else was on offer. I wasn't disappointed. Both Port Chulllin and Grantham stood out (for me) - two excellent layouts. I took a few pictures but these were for my own benefit, mainly to remind me of features that I might like to steal for a future layout.

 

I hope that, one day, I will be in a position to have a layout capable of being exhibited but, in the meantime, I am learning lots of lessons in terms of that to do and what not to do. It was great to see so many layouts with  something happening all of the time. There was only one layout that seemed 'motionless' and, needless to say, there weren't too many people rushing to see it. Whilst it was great to see so many excellent layouts, I was also on a bit of a shopping spree and I was equally delighted with some of the trade stands. I managed to find the bits and pieces that I needed and all at remarkably competitive prices. I went home a happy bunny.

[Re6/6]

A few more of Nigel's exquisite engines including a couple of GER ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glo41f]

I recall someone made a Stirling single using the Kitmaster body and the tender had a "normal" con rod connections between the tender wheels which acted as drivers which actually provided the power. When it was running you could not see the rods rotating behind the tender frames. Most elegant locos in my humbler opinion. (I wonder if the one I mentioned still exists.)

 

I was opposite the Overlord layout and though it is a fabulously detailed piece of work and extremely well researched, as a model railway it is more like a diorama thorough which trainsd move on occasion. There were lots of inspiring models there and it was a well organised and friendly show. Well done Jackie and her team!

 

Martin Long