Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

After a couple of weeks abroad I've got back into modelling this week by continuing work on my bow-ended Ocean Mails coach, seen here in the company of the two Collett 70 foot coaches I built a year or two ago.

 

ocean_mails1.jpg

 

ocean_mails2.jpg

 

 

This was a bit easier than the others as the kit doesn't require an interior, and the droplights are already etched into the body side, saving an evening's worth of soldering. I've heard it said that the Ocean Mails vans are a bit of a GWR modeller's cliche but I've always fancied one and although it won't be marshalled into an accurate Ocean Mails formation, it'll add a nice bit of "bling" to some of my trains.

 

Ultimately I'd like to be replace the fixed buffers with sprung varieties to permit a degree of close coupling.

 

Re: soldering - I feared it for years and still approach it with some trepidation as there are still days when it doesn't go as well as hoped, but I can just about soldier through when the materials demand it, as here.

 

Alastair

Lovely work Alastair. 

 

Regarding soldering, you've obviously mastered the craft if your models are anything to go by. 

 

This morning, I rearranged some of the trackwork on the fiddle yard on the MR/M&GNR bit of my railway. It was laid nine years ago and there was one bit where (because of the tight space restrictions) the inner radius was down to just over two feet. I know this is really train set curves, but the 4-6-0s, 2-6-0s, 0-6-0s and 4-4-0s I've built will negotiate it - in some cases, just. By lifting a point (large radius) and substituting a curved equivalent, I was both able to ease the tight radius a bit and also increase the length of two roads. What's the point of my mentioning this? Because it required the moving of several rails over copper clad strips, fixing new feeds and altering the wiring on a micro-switch; all by soldering. I know electrical soldering is different from constructional soldering, though the principles are the same (the electrical solder melts at a higher temperature). 

 

My point is, how do folk who cannot solder, wire their layouts? With plug-in clips? With chocolate block connectors everywhere? (I've used some of the latter, but very sparingly). With gadgets sold for car wiring - sort of blue clamps? Though one cannot stop progress, I'm convinced the best way to wire a layout is to solder the connections - to the track via droppers, to the buss bars, to tag strips, to point motors, to signals - anything where integrity in electrical conductivity is paramount. Even more so with DCC? 

[thegreenhowards]

Lovely work Alastair. 

 

Regarding soldering, you've obviously mastered the craft if your models are anything to go by. 

 

This morning, I rearranged some of the trackwork on the fiddle yard on the MR/M&GNR bit of my railway. It was laid nine years ago and there was one bit where (because of the tight space restrictions) the inner radius was down to just over two feet. I know this is really train set curves, but the 4-6-0s, 2-6-0s, 0-6-0s and 4-4-0s I've built will negotiate it - in some cases, just. By lifting a point (large radius) and substituting a curved equivalent, I was both able to ease the tight radius a bit and also increase the length of two roads. What's the point of my mentioning this? Because it required the moving of several rails over copper clad strips, fixing new feeds and altering the wiring on a micro-switch; all by soldering. I know electrical soldering is different from constructional soldering, though the principles are the same (the electrical solder melts at a higher temperature). 

 

My point is, how do folk who cannot solder, wire their layouts? With plug-in clips? With chocolate block connectors everywhere? (I've used some of the latter, but very sparingly). With gadgets sold for car wiring - sort of blue clamps? Though one cannot stop progress, I'm convinced the best way to wire a layout is to solder the connections - to the track via droppers, to the buss bars, to tag strips, to point motors, to signals - anything where integrity in electrical conductivity is paramount. Even more so with DCC?

 

Tony,

 

I think you've hit on a real issue. Constructional soldering is optional (one can live on RTR if one so chooses) but electrical soldering shouldn't be. The latest marketing gimmick seems to be supplying well known core products re-packaged for easy 'no solder' installation at a premium price (see link).

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-PM10

 

I think this is a sorry state of affairs.

 

Andy

[Barry Ten]

We can take some consolation in that ours isn't the only hobby where soldering is a useful, even necessary skill:

 

http://www.guitarrepairbench.com/electric-guitar-repairs/guitar_pickup_electronic_soldering.html

 

Sound familiar?

 

Alastair

[Richard E]

Tony,

 

I think you've hit on a real issue. Constructional soldering is optional (one can live on RTR if one so chooses) but electrical soldering shouldn't be. The latest marketing gimmick seems to be supplying well known core products re-packaged for easy 'no solder' installation at a premium price (see link).

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-PM10

 

I think this is a sorry state of affairs.

 

Andy

And, with screw terminals, you will not get as sound an electrical connection. That could be bad news if you are proposing to go DCC. Indeed over time it could also be bad for DC users as the terminals corrode. it also stresses the wires where the screw clamps them, any movement and they tend to break. Don't Peco do a wiring harness that just plugs onto the terminals like the older car wiring used to?

 

Oddly however I learned the other week that wiring looms used in motorsport are never soldered but always crimped as soldering introduces a stress point in wiring where the solder ends and the wire flexes. However I would suggest that, at high levels, a wiring loom is consider a consumable in motorsport despite the cost involved.

[jamie92208]

Tony,

 

I think you've hit on a real issue. Constructional soldering is optional (one can live on RTR if one so chooses) but electrical soldering shouldn't be. The latest marketing gimmick seems to be supplying well known core products re-packaged for easy 'no solder' installation at a premium price (see link).

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-PM10

 

I think this is a sorry state of affairs.

 

Andy

 

I suspect that they are just following standard industry practice.  Most Telecoms work has been solder free for years with various types of crimp terminals and so are a lot of other industrial applications.  My eldest son works as a telecoms engineer and very rarely has to solder, in fact he usually rings me for advice if he needs to.  

 

Jamie

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

I think you've hit on a real issue. Constructional soldering is optional (one can live on RTR if one so chooses) but electrical soldering shouldn't be. The latest marketing gimmick seems to be supplying well known core products re-packaged for easy 'no solder' installation at a premium price (see link).

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-PM10

 

I think this is a sorry state of affairs.

 

Andy

Thanks for that Andy,

 

Are those joints sort of 'spade' connectors? If so, my experience with such things is that, over time, due to dirt, tarnish, etc, they fail. 

 

I cannot comment on the product you illustrate (though Gaugemaster has a good reputation), but it seems that the hobby (in this situation) is going down the 'dead-easy' route. That's not to say that 'we' should make things harder for ourselves (that's daft), but for generations the way to fix electrical connections has been to solder them. That's also not to say that solder can never fail (the dry joint on an exhibition layout is known to all), but where the initial soldering is carried out properly - that is with scrupulous cleanliness, the right iron, the right solder, flux, if necessary, and a resultant shiny joint (with not too much solder applied), then it should last indefinitely. I can only speak from my own (soldering) experience with this, but with 70 shows under its belt, I never had to re-solder a joint on Stoke Summit (apart from one track end, which had received a clout in transit). I wonder if its current owner has had to repair any of the joints. 

[Tony Wright]

And, with screw terminals, you will not get as sound an electrical connection. That could be bad news if you are proposing to go DCC. Indeed over time it could also be bad for DC users as the terminals corrode. it also stresses the wires where the screw clamps them, any movement and they tend to break. Don't Peco do a wiring harness that just plugs onto the terminals like the older car wiring used to?

 

Oddly however I learned the other week that wiring looms used in motorsport are never soldered but always crimped as soldering introduces a stress point in wiring where the solder ends and the wire flexes. However I would suggest that, at high levels, a wiring loom is consider a consumable in motorsport despite the cost involved.

Thanks Richard,

 

I know little about car wiring looms, so cannot comment. My elder son does, however, in his hobby of restoring classic cars. On a few occasions, he's borrowed my hefty 75 Watt iron to repair dodgy wiring. If soldering wires together introduces a stress point, I'm sure he'll tolerate this. He's tried some of those 'crimping' things sold for joining car wiring together, but they're not reliable enough it would seem. 

 

Anyway, as others have said, much of the electronic/telecom industry has not soldered for ages, but I still don't know how one can 'crimp' a dropper to a rail, or fix that dropper to a buss bar really successfully without solder. Every joint made by Norman Solomon and me when Bytham was wired up was soldered (with the exception of some of the feeds to the point motors, which are via chocolate block connectors, because soldering 'uphill' when these were installed was considered impossible). Every joint on the fiddle yard control panel was soldered as well. The only joints which have 'failed' have been those in the chocolate blocks. In fairness, these (two) were caused by my catching the wire when installing something else. 

[Tony Wright]

In response to a request from DJH, I've sent them pictures of locos I've built from their kits. I was astonished to tot up how many I've built. Most have been built for customers down the years, but I thought I'd start with the A1s and A2s I still have (at least some of them). 

 

 

This one was built for a friend, who's since sold it on. The new owner posts on here, so I hope he's happy with it. 

 

 

This was the first A1 I ever saw (in 1956), so I had to build a model of 60116.

 

 

60117 was a regular at Retford, so I had to build that as well. The three images above show the A1s running on Stoke Summit. 

 

 

BONGRACE was a favourite at Grantham, so another 'must-build'.

 

 

Another favourite of mine, KESTREL.

 

 

Of all the A1s, I saw ALCAZAR the most. In this shot, she's got a Thompson boiler. 

 

 

 

Phil Ramsay (Quack!) did a lot of the building of this one. I built the chassis and finished it off, and we 'horse-traded' with regard to eventual ownership. It represents one of the roller-bearing examples, with only one lubricator and round keeps to the Cartazzi and tender axleboxes (soldered on). 

 

 

A Scottish A2 on a running-in turn. This loco broke a precedent in that I built one which I never saw. Still, a single chimney A2 is interesting. 

 

 

This was the A2 I built for the first two Right Track DVDs. 

 

All these locos are soldered together, and Ian Rathbone painted every one (I accept my limitations). 

 

I hope the images are of use to DJH (there are many more).

 

One could, of course, 'flood' the layout(s) with RTR A1s and A2s, but that's not the 'Bytham way'. 

 

Are there any more kit-built A1s and A2s I've built. Yes, but enough is enough for now. 

 

I've probably asked this before, but may we see some other examples, please? 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Tony Wright

[46256]

Good evening Tony fascinated by the pick ups on the 9f. I will say no more....a rarity for me...

[Tony Wright]

Good evening Tony fascinated by the pick ups on the 9f. I will say no more....a rarity for me...

They're nothing more than the standard .45mm nickel silver wire, soldered to PCB pads fixed to the chassis spacers, bent to give the correct tension, sleeved with small bore PVC tubing  to prevent stray shorts and all linked together and to the motor with insulated wire. 

[96701]

Tornado is finished but they are building a Mikado so you could ask them if you might join in.

A. 1. Trussed

I'll just leave this here. http://www.thebabydelticproject.co.uk/

[Clive Mortimore]

I'll just leave this here. http://www.thebabydelticproject.co.uk/

Hi Phil

 

It is a cut and shut 37. I have done 20 plus for me and other people...................the Baby Deltic group have not asked me for advice. :dontknow:

[AndyID]

Thanks Richard,

 

I know little about car wiring looms, so cannot comment. My elder son does, however, in his hobby of restoring classic cars. On a few occasions, he's borrowed my hefty 75 Watt iron to repair dodgy wiring. If soldering wires together introduces a stress point, I'm sure he'll tolerate this. He's tried some of those 'crimping' things sold for joining car wiring together, but they're not reliable enough it would seem. 

 

Anyway, as others have said, much of the electronic/telecom industry has not soldered for ages, but I still don't know how one can 'crimp' a dropper to a rail, or fix that dropper to a buss bar really successfully without solder. Every joint made by Norman Solomon and me when Bytham was wired up was soldered (with the exception of some of the feeds to the point motors, which are via chocolate block connectors, because soldering 'uphill' when these were installed was considered impossible). Every joint on the fiddle yard control panel was soldered as well. The only joints which have 'failed' have been those in the chocolate blocks. In fairness, these (two) were caused by my catching the wire when installing something else. 

 

There's nothing wrong with soldered connections as long as there isn't a lot of vibration. When multi-stranded wire is soldered the solder wicks along the wire effectively making it a solid conductor. The point where the wicking stops becomes a sort of hinge. Continuous bending at that hinge results in metal fatigue and a failed connection. It's unlikely that will create a problem on a static layout, but it could be a serious problem on layouts that are transported.

 

"Chocolate block" connectors are a bit dodgy. Initially they deform the wire to create a "gas tight" connection, but there isn't any mechanism to maintain contact pressure between the conductors.

[Leander]

 

60114 on Up fitted-freight.jpg

 

This one was built for a friend, who's since sold it on. The new owner posts on here, so I hope he's happy with it. 

So do I Tony!

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

I cannot comment on the product you illustrate (though Gaugemaster has a good reputation), but it seems that the hobby (in this situation) is going down the 'dead-easy' route. That's not to say that 'we' should make things harder for ourselves (that's daft), but for generations the way to fix electrical connections has been to solder them.

Not just the hobby Tony. The real world is heading down that road in many ways.

I have been more involved with welding than soldering and have seen a tendency for people to be replaced by robots. In many applications this works well but in others some changes in the design of the product have been made as the robot is often restricted in what it can do, It does what it can do exceedingly well I must add. At times the blinkers seem to go on with management and design teams and a simple operation is ignored and a complex robot based method introduced.

In time you get a work force that has lost the traditional skills such as soldering and welding. When I attended the Welding Institute one of the first lessons for potential designers was to write your name with a welding rod on  a piece of 25mm steel plate. It was an eye opener and did bring a few high flyers down to earth as it brought home just what was involved in welding. It did teach them to "design clever" to quote a phrase.

Bernard

[Richard E]

I just love that shot of Kestrel, beautiful.

[Tony Wright]

There's nothing wrong with soldered connections as long as there isn't a lot of vibration. When multi-stranded wire is soldered the solder wicks along the wire effectively making it a solid conductor. The point where the wicking stops becomes a sort of hinge. Continuous bending at that hinge results in metal fatigue and a failed connection. It's unlikely that will create a problem on a static layout, but it could be a serious problem on layouts that are transported.

 

"Chocolate block" connectors are a bit dodgy. Initially they deform the wire to create a "gas tight" connection, but there isn't any mechanism to maintain contact pressure between the conductors.

Thanks Andy,

 

As I've already mentioned, Stoke Summit did 70 shows between 1997 and 2012, ranging from St. Andrews in the north to, Ipswich in the east, Taunton in the west and Southampton in the south, and just about every major show in between. Every electrical joint on it was soldered. Inter-board connectors were multi-plug/socket computer-type connectors, where the greatest care was taken in soldering each wire to each tag. I think each link had 24 connectors, though, dependent on which two boards were being joined, not every one might be used (though some used them all). It was arbitrary which of the 20-odd connectors were used. At least one of these connectors failed (or a joint in one), and it was investigated. What had happened was that it had been snagged and a joint had broken (easily fixed with an iron). Any 'spade-type' connectors would have pulled out straight away and any chocolate block connections would have just failed. 

 

It must be stressed that each soldered joint was done 'properly', with a 'tug-test' conducted. I made the mistake once of being involved with a layout where the wiring/soldering was done by committee. Wrong! Little Bytham's soldered joints were completed by just three people. There are thousands of those joints and they're all still good. 

 

Another point is where a layout has been wired by others because the owner is not proficient at soldering. That's fine, until things fail. 

[Tony Wright]

I just love that shot of Kestrel, beautiful.

Thanks Richard,

 

What's interesting about that shot is it's the 'least-prepared' of the lot. It was taken on Charwelton when the loco was brand new. I had no lighting/flash with me and the natural lighting was from the left, through a window. I just took a snapshot, and it seems to have worked. 

[Tony Teague]

I used some Choc-bloc connectors in the past, but as soon as you need more than 2 wires to be connected together you are into forcing multiple wires into the same holes - with possibly very mixed outcomes; I now always solder joints and where screw terminals are provided, I often run short wires directly to a soldered tag strip to facilitate multiple connections.

As an example, I am just installing some colour light signals with IRDOT infra-red detectors and there is a need for multiple connections both between one signal and another, and to allow for some elementary electrical 'locking'.

Without a soldering iron I would be lost!

Tony

[Andrew P]

Good morning Tony and friends, well after over night Rain at Kings Moreton leaving a few puddles in the Yard, the Sun came out this morning for some pictures of the Weathering jobs I've just completed for a couple of friends. 

 

The first friend wanted the 1F to be almost Ex Works, and the 3F just a little more used.

 

The other friend with the 9F's wanted them little used but dirty, as I'd already done him a pair of DISTRESSED 9F's a week or two back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coachmann]

I like the weathering on the Jinty and 1F tank. While I never saw a 1F in the flesh, it would be nice to think it was the sheds' pet and kept clean.

[Tony Wright]

Good morning Tony and friends, well after over night Rain at Kings Moreton leaving a few puddles in the Yard, the Sun came out this morning for some pictures of the Weathering jobs I've just completed for a couple of friends. 

 

The first friend wanted the 1F to be almost Ex Works, and the 3F just a little more used.

 

The other friend with the 9F's wanted them little used but dirty, as I'd already done him a pair of DISTRESSED 9F's a week or two back.

1F and 3F 001 (8).JPG

 

1F and 3F 001 (6).JPG

 

1F and 3F 001 (5).JPG

 

1F and 4F 008.JPG

 

1F and 4F 012.JPG

Lovely work, Andy. 

 

Thanks for posting. 

 

I can never remember seeing a Crosti 9F looking quite that clean, though. 

[Headstock]

Good morning Kieran,

 

I've listed below a few BR West Riding sets, because they might be of interest to others as well.

 

1950/'51.

'The White Rose' Down.

BG (Gresley)

BTK,TO,RK,FO,BFK - the Leeds Quint set

FK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

BTK (Thompson

All the above to Leeds Central

BCK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

BCK (Thompson)

For Bradford, detached at Wakefield. 

 

10.18 am Kings Cross-Leeds Monday/Friday/Saturday

All Gresley

BTK

TK

TK

TK

TK

TK

TK

BCK

Above to Leeds Central

BTK

TK

TK

BCK

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield

 

1955

12.0 noon 'The Queen of Scots' Down

First Kitchen

Third Kitchen

Pair above detached at Leeds

Third Brake

Third Kitchen

Third Parlour

First Parlour

First Kitchen

Third Parlour

Third Kitchen

Third Brake

 

For Comparison, the same train in 1960/'61 (with Mk. 1 cars

Second Parlour

First Kitchen

Above to Leeds-only

Second Brake

Second Kitchen

First Parlour

First Kitchen

First Kitchen

Second Parlour

Second Brake

 

1958/'59

8.50 am 'The White Rose' Down. All BR Mk.1 except the catering cars, which are Gresley

BSK

SK

TSO

RSP

RF

FK

CK

BSK

Above to Leeds

CK

BSK

TSO

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield.

 

10.10 am Mondays-only Kings Cross-Leeds. All Gresleys

BSK

SK

SK

SK

SK

SK

SK

BCK

Above to Leeds

BCK

SK

SK

BSK

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield

 

10.20 am Kings Cross-Leeds, Ripon, Bradford, Hull. All Mk. 1 except catering triplet

BCK

SO, RK, FO - triplet

CK

BSO

Above to Leeds

TSO

BCK

Above onwards from Leeds to Ripon

TSO

BSK

CK

Above for Bradford, detached at Wakefield

CK

BSO

Above for Hull, detached at Doncaster

 

3.40 pm 'The West Riding' Kings Cross-Leeds. All Mk.1 apart from catering twin, which is an ex-streamlined pair.

BSK

TSO

FO

RS/SO Catering twin

CK

TSO

BSO

Above to Leeds

BSO

CK

TSO

BCK

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield.

 

There should be enough to be going on with there. 

 

Most of the Mk.1s should be available from Bachmann or Hornby. Bachmann's latest Thompsons should do, but photographic evidence suggests the Gresleys mentioned are end door, which Hornby doesn't do. Catering vehicles will have to be kit-built. Hornby's latest Pullmans should do for the 'Queen of Scots'.

 

I don't have the consists for the shorter, suburban trains in and out of Leeds Central. Many of these were DMUs by the late-'50s.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Regards.

 

Tony.

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I must say that the 1950/51 formation of the White Rose looks a far more attractive modelling proposition than the latter trains, what a shame that the quint set was wrecked. With regard to the 10.18am off K X, you don't specify whether this was end door, compartment door or a mixture of stock.

[Headstock]

I entirely agree, Larry, and, as you say 'we are where we are'.

 

But that doesn't mean to say 'we' have to like it. Accept it, of course, but I'm getting rather bored by seeing the same out-of-the-box items at shows and in the model press. With regard to the latter, how many 'Railways of The Month' does anyone recall from the days of yore which featured (exclusively) RTR/RTP? Anything contemporary RTR/RTP either featured in 'Proprietary Modeller' or 'Junior Modeller' (because it wasn't that good?)

 

If you don't need to build a loco again, then that's a good thing as far as you're concerned. I don't 'need' to, but I continue for two principal reasons. One, I enjoy it and, two, LB's requirements (like Retford's but on a smaller scale) for locos capable of shifting up to 14 kit-built brass/white metal cars render RTR Pacifics not really suitable. 

 

We are we are with new technologies, too, so there is some light out there. Thank goodness for the likes of Steve Costa and his etched-brass work (see previous page) and 3D printing of loco bodies. Without newcomers like him, the hobby will just stagnate further and we'll then be only able to say 'we're where we've been, but no further'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Looking through my own moderate list of likely locomotives to get my grubby hands on, the likes of class K2, N5, A5, B16 and O4/8 are fairly typical. On the rolling stock front a dia 210 twin, an ex ECJS BG, a couple of BZ's and a number of pre BR wagons. All pretty common stuff for my modelling era, area but you are not going to buy it off the shelf.

[Tony Wright]

Good evening Tony,

 

I must say that the 1950/51 formation of the White Rose looks a far more attractive modelling proposition than the latter trains, what a shame that the quint set was wrecked. With regard to the 10.18am off K X, you don't specify whether this was end door, compartment door or a mixture of stock.

Good evening Andrew,

 

Whether the Gresley stock is all-door or end-door isn't specified in the carriage workings, though transverse corridor stock (Thompson) is. I would imagine, from those times it would be mixed.