Wright writes.....

[mullie]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

I was faced with a similar problem when I built some 4 wheelers a while ago. I was told that it might be possible to get some correct pattern buffers from Danny Pinnock (D & S) who can still sometimes supply 4mm bits and kits.

 

I ended up using the generic "early long" buffers from Alan Gibson, as they were to be sprung and the D & S ones are solid castings.

 

They are the right length and general shape.

 

I attach a photo showing what they look like on a carriage.

 

Thanks Tony, much appreciated.

 

Martyn

[Blandford1969]

22 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Nothing better than a D20. Well done.

However be aware that the original drawings were destroyed in a fire and the archive drawings were made according to the current practice at the time and not how the locomotives were originally  built. DJH fell into this trap.

Bernard

Thanks, I only have a partial drawing which shows the cab and a little way forwards. The rest is coming drom drawings of D20s. Where are the differences in the drawings to reality?

 

I'm lucky that I purchased a complete set of D20 fittings from Arthur Kimber at the same time I bought one of his D20 kits to have a D20/1 as well. 

[Bucoops]

4 hours ago, mullie said:

I'm very much a lurker on here slowly plugging away with my small EM layout . I'm currently building a pair of Eveleigh Creation Great Eastern six wheel brake thirds. The bodies are pretty much complete and I am moving on to the chassis, an enjoyable build. Here is progress so far.

 

Hope no one minds me posting as I wonder if anyone can help, I've managed to get most parts I need but have drawn a blank at Great Eastern Carriage buffers, does anyone make them in oo gauge? I think I've tried all the regular sources I can think of and so far drawn a blank. Any help gratefully received.

 

Martyn

 

Looking good :)

 

The site seems to be struggling at the moment but have a look at phoenix precision - they have a few coach buffer designs.

 

Edit - the site finally woke up - https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/4-coach-buffers

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Bucoops

[jwealleans]

Tony, let me take you back to your theme a few pages ago of saving wrecked wagons.

 

I was at Shildon show over the weekend operating a 7mm layout.   Having my usual grub through the rummage boxes on trade stands, I was reminded of your present interest in what can be done with cheap or basket case wagons.   Here's one I found:

 

 

Two quid from a box of loose wagons.   Ratio, square and mainly complete (missing buffer and roof vent) and you can never have too many LMS vans.  How could I resist?

 

 

Just out of the paint stripper, no apparent damage and a fairly tidy build under the paint.

 

 

Brass bearings and proper wheels, LMS (Dave Franks) buffers, whitemetal roof vents and the door handles replaced with wire.   Plenty of change from an hour to do this.

 

 

Primed and drying.   I found the wheels fairly cheap at the same show, so the whole lot probably stands me less than twelve quid including the two pounds for the wagon to start with.

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Tony, let me take you back to your theme a few pages ago of saving wrecked wagons.

 

I was at Shildon show over the weekend operating a 7mm layout.   Having my usual grub through the rummage boxes on trade stands, I was reminded of your present interest in what can be done with cheap or basket case wagons.   Here's one I found:

 

 

Two quid from a box of loose wagons.   Ratio, square and mainly complete (missing buffer and roof vent) and you can never have too many LMS vans.  How could I resist?

 

 

Just out of the paint stripper, no apparent damage and a fairly tidy build under the paint.

 

 

Brass bearings and proper wheels, LMS (Dave Franks) buffers, whitemetal roof vents and the door handles replaced with wire.   Plenty of change from an hour to do this.

 

 

Primed and drying.   I found the wheels fairly cheap at the same show, so the whole lot probably stands me less than twelve quid including the two pounds for the wagon to start with.

Damn! Must have missed that in my own rummage around.

 

One set of brake gear the wrong way round? Unlike one of my latest wagon projects where I managed to get BOTH the wrong way round - doh!

[jwealleans]

6 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Damn! Must have missed that in my own rummage around.

 

You did, because I clocked it before opening, but only gathered it up when things got quiet after 4pm.  

 

6 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

One set of brake gear the wrong way round?

 

Double independent brakes.   They're staying as they are because I'd almost certainly break them if I tried to change them.  Brittle plastic is a downside of older kitbuilt models.

 

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

11 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Thanks, I only have a partial drawing which shows the cab and a little way forwards. The rest is coming drom drawings of D20s. Where are the differences in the drawings to reality?

 

I'm lucky that I purchased a complete set of D20 fittings from Arthur Kimber at the same time I bought one of his D20 kits to have a D20/1 as well. 

The main problem with the DJH kit is the tender which has oval cut outs as per the NER drawing, rather than the shaped version actually carried by all tenders of thetype used on the D20s.

I do not have the drawings or any kits that Arthur produced, but going from photographs they look pretty good.

I think the front frames on one variant are also suspect on the DJH kit.

Bernard

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Tony, let me take you back to your theme a few pages ago of saving wrecked wagons.

 

I was at Shildon show over the weekend operating a 7mm layout.   Having my usual grub through the rummage boxes on trade stands, I was reminded of your present interest in what can be done with cheap or basket case wagons.   Here's one I found:

 

 

Two quid from a box of loose wagons.   Ratio, square and mainly complete (missing buffer and roof vent) and you can never have too many LMS vans.  How could I resist?

 

 

Just out of the paint stripper, no apparent damage and a fairly tidy build under the paint.

 

 

Brass bearings and proper wheels, LMS (Dave Franks) buffers, whitemetal roof vents and the door handles replaced with wire.   Plenty of change from an hour to do this.

 

 

Primed and drying.   I found the wheels fairly cheap at the same show, so the whole lot probably stands me less than twelve quid including the two pounds for the wagon to start with.

Good morning Jonathan,

 

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to highlight. Many thanks for showing us. 

 

One thing I need to address for 'beginners' is the necessity of building up a collection of spares, in several different boxes. The 'upgrades' I've conducted were mainly achieved by my buying very little 'aftermarket' stuff, other than numberplates for the pair of GWR locos, and bogies for the Pullman car. Everything else  (buffers, coupling hooks, vacuum pipes, wheels, etc.) came from my extensive collection of spares (GWR transfers were kindly donated by a mate). A beginner/inexperienced won't have such a facility, so your mentioning of things like LMS buffers and so on is very pertinent. 

 

Yesterday, a mate popped round with an RTR loco he'd just bought second-hand. I didn't run very well - it ran better after I'd 'fiddled' with it by taking out the ridiculous amount of 'slop' in the driven axles (by the simple expedient of taking a nick out of Peco fibre washers and then pushing them on to the axles). He'd paid £120.00 for it, but, even after my fiddling, it didn't run quite as well as the cheap pair of locos I'd worked on, even though it cost nearly three times as much!

 

As you've shown, bargains are out there.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Compound2632]

36 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

One thing I need to address for 'beginners' is the necessity of building up a collection of spares

 

A side benefit of modelling pre-Great War pre-grouping is that most wagon kits come with brake gear for both sides of the wagon but one only needs to fit it on one side - instant spares. This means that one can try things like scrawking a chamfer on the top inside edge of a plastic brake lever to give it a thinner appearance confident that if the lever snaps, one has a second chance!

[MJI]

11 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Tony, let me take you back to your theme a few pages ago of saving wrecked wagons.

 

I was at Shildon show over the weekend operating a 7mm layout.   Having my usual grub through the rummage boxes on trade stands, I was reminded of your present interest in what can be done with cheap or basket case wagons.   Here's one I found:

 

 

Two quid from a box of loose wagons.   Ratio, square and mainly complete (missing buffer and roof vent) and you can never have too many LMS vans.  How could I resist?

 

 

Just out of the paint stripper, no apparent damage and a fairly tidy build under the paint.

 

 

Brass bearings and proper wheels, LMS (Dave Franks) buffers, whitemetal roof vents and the door handles replaced with wire.   Plenty of change from an hour to do this.

 

 

Primed and drying.   I found the wheels fairly cheap at the same show, so the whole lot probably stands me less than twelve quid including the two pounds for the wagon to start with.

Where do you get the vents from?

 

Got a pile of Dapol bodies, waiting on parkside chassis.

[jwealleans]

7 minutes ago, MJI said:

Where do you get the vents from?

 MJT, Comet or the spares box.   I think these are Comet, which are smaller.

[Richard_A]

14 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Tony, let me take you back to your theme a few pages ago of saving wrecked wagons.

 

I was at Shildon show over the weekend operating a 7mm layout.   Having my usual grub through the rummage boxes on trade stands, I was reminded of your present interest in what can be done with cheap or basket case wagons.   Here's one I found:

 

 

Two quid from a box of loose wagons.   Ratio, square and mainly complete (missing buffer and roof vent) and you can never have too many LMS vans.  How could I resist?

 

 

Just out of the paint stripper, no apparent damage and a fairly tidy build under the paint.

 

 

Brass bearings and proper wheels, LMS (Dave Franks) buffers, whitemetal roof vents and the door handles replaced with wire.   Plenty of change from an hour to do this.

 

 

Primed and drying.   I found the wheels fairly cheap at the same show, so the whole lot probably stands me less than twelve quid including the two pounds for the wagon to start with.

Are the vents the torpedo variant? 

 

Also are these vans a 10' wheelbase? 

 

The reason for the questions are I have a body of one of these kits but no chassis or roof vents. 

[65179]

10 minutes ago, rka said:

Are the vents the torpedo variant? 

 

Also are these vans a 10' wheelbase? 

 

The reason for the questions are I have a body of one of these kits but no chassis or roof vents. 

 

Yes, they are torpedo vents. All LMS vans of this style were built with steel solebar 10ft chassis: either Morton brakes with brakes on one side only or the LMS style of fitted underframe with J hanger supported springs and 8 shoe clasp brakes. Some of the unfitted vans were later fitted by BR, and similar vans (with detail differences) were built by BR too.

 

Regards,

Simon

[Richard_A]

2 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

Yes, they are torpedo vents. All LMS vans of this style were built with steel solebar 10ft chassis: either Morton brakes with brakes on one side only or the LMS style of fitted underframe with J hanger supported springs and 8 shoe clasp brakes. Some of the unfitted vans were later fitted by BR, and similar vans (with detail differences) were built by BR too.

 

Regards,

Simon

Thank you Simon, 

 

Best look for a chassis kit then, I assume that the ratio 10' one is correct, but, the differences between wagons leaves me bewildered at times. 

[46444]

With Tony's theme of renovating older models I thought this may be of interest. 

 

Recently a good friend (Also called Tony) picked up a 1990's Bachmann GWR Mogul at the Filey Show. It was sold as a runner but sadly had the dreaded split axle chassis wobble. A few other cosmetic tweaks were also required.

 

Peter's Spares actually sell replacement axles including the centre axle with the gear on for these older Bachmann models.

 

Being square ended they are easy to quarter having removed the wheelset from the chassis.

 

The tricky part is not loosing the circlip on the centre driving wheel. This procedure was carried out with the wheels in a clear plastic bag.

 

Once the back to backs were checked and everything cleaned and freshly lubricated the chassis ran perfectly. 

 

Other than a few spare parts from Dapol along with a new Alan Gibson chimney/smoke box door dart the rest of the work was cosmetic.

 

 

I did ask Steve at Railtec to make up a set of 3D printed numberplates as well as a shedcode plate. 

 

 

I had Fox lining in stock including the power classification and route availability discs/letters.

 

 

Since these pictures were taken the cab windows have been flush glazed and Dapol have provided the crew figures.

 

 

In total the cost including the loco would be around £60 mark.  This could have obviously been a lot less if you had just repaired the split axles.

 

I am tempted to have a go at another failed split chassis Bachmann model using the Peter's Spares replacement axles.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed this project and it was returned to my good friend in Northamptonshire this week. He is really pleased with it.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Edited October 12, 2023 by 46444

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, 65179 said:

Some of the unfitted vans were later fitted by BR ...

... most / many of which seem to have been fitted with the Morton 4-shoe arrangement (presumably cheaper and for standardisation) just to add to the variety / bewilderment.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, 65179 said:

 All LMS vans of this style were built with steel solebar 10ft chassis: either Morton brakes with brakes on one side only or the LMS style of fitted underframe with J hanger supported springs and 8 shoe clasp brakes. Some of the unfitted vans were later fitted by BR, and similar vans (with detail differences) were built by BR too.

 

Regards,

Simon

 

You got me going with LMS vans with previous discussions on this thread! Here's some recent progress, which might illustrate the differences:

 

From left-to-right:

 

Dapol LMS van, repainted from 'I.C.I.' branding and fanciful brake gear removed, apart from the 4 inner shoes. Central 'pusher' rigging fitted (the wrong way round!) to (crudely) create a unfitted wagon - waiting numbering 

 

Peco (Parkside, nee Ratio) straight kit build. Morton 4-shoe brake gear fitted to depict an originally unfitted wagon, fitted by BR.

 

Dapol LMS van, fitted with Parkside 10 foot, 8-shoe clasp brakes (Dapol chassis discarded). Numbered as an early BR build, to diagram 1/204.

 

Dapol LMS van, married to a Bachmann 4-shoe Morton underframe from a 'squashed' LMS van (which, you will be delighted to know, I have discarded!). Hence another originally unfitted van, equipped with BR vac brakes.

 

All great fun! The potential two RTR offerings both have issues - the fanciful underframe (Dapol) and the squashed body (Bachmann). Now I'm alive to all this, I'm trying to steadily make my way through my fleet to eliminate the offenders, as well as making up new wagons from kits.

(btw, I am aware of some of the subtle body differences between the diagrams if using the Dapol body ... but I'm afraid that's the point at which life gets a bit short!)

 

See if you can spot some of the above running on Shap at the Hornby GETS show at Milton Keynes this weekend!

Edited October 12, 2023 by LNER4479

[Clive Mortimore]

16 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

You got me going with LMS vans with previous discussions on this thread! Here's some recent progress, which might illustrate the differences:

 

From left-to-right:

 

Dapol LMS van, repainted from 'I.C.I.' branding and fanciful brake gear removed, apart from the 4 inner shoes. Central 'pusher' rigging fitted (the wrong way round!) to (crudely) create a unfitted wagon - waiting numbering 

 

Peco (Parkside, nee Ratio) straight kit build. Morton 4-shoe brake gear fitted to depict an originally unfitted wagon, fitted by BR.

 

Dapol LMS van, fitted with Parkside 10 foot, 8-shoe clasp brakes (Dapol chassis discarded). Numbered as an early BR build, to diagram 1/204.

 

Dapol LMS van, married to a Bachmann 4-shoe Morton underframe from a 'squashed' LMS van (which, you will be delighted to know, I have discarded!). Hence another originally unfitted van, equipped with BR vac brakes.

 

All great fun! The potential two RTR offerings both have issues - the fanciful underframe (Dapol) and the squashed body (Bachmann). Now I'm alive to all this, I'm trying to steadily make my way through my fleet to eliminate the offenders, as well as making up new wagons from kits.

(btw, I am aware of some of the subtle body differences between the diagrams if using the Dapol body ... but I'm afraid that's the point at which life gets a bit short!)

 

See if you can spot some of the above running on Shap at the Hornby GETS show at Milton Keynes this weekend!

For all the information one needs on which per-nationalisation vans https://www.booklaw.co.uk/crecy/krb/ian-allan/crecy/krb/ian-allan/crecy/krb/ian-allan/krb-railway-books/acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-4-p5379.html

[Clive Mortimore]

21 minutes ago, 65179 said:

Apart from all the stuff that isn't in there 😉. It can't hope to cover everything, and is good as far as it goes though.

 

Simon

Hi Simon

 

What isn't in there?

 

David came to visit me back in the early 1980s, he talked about how he was going through what remained of BR records with regard to ex private owner coal wagons. Volume 3 of his series is a summery of his life long research into these wagons.

 

I would gratefully see your additional information to any of David's works.

[jwealleans]

Mick Moore penned a series very useful articles on LMS vans and how to cross kit to produce variants.  MRJs 205, then 238/9/41.   As these continue to be ignored by the RTR manufacturers (and long may that continue) there are literally days of fun to be had on the basis of Mick's work.

[65179]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Simon

 

What isn't in there?

 

David came to visit me back in the early 1980s, he talked about how he was going through what remained of BR records with regard to ex private owner coal wagons. Volume 3 of his series is a summery of his life long research into these wagons.

 

I would gratefully see your additional information to any of David's works.

 

Clive, please don't misinterpret my comment. I was just responding to you're all you need to know comment in what was intended as a light hearted fashion. I'm sorry if it seemed flippant, and I've deleted the post because it was misleading. We owe David Larkin, Don Rowland, Paul Bartlett and others a huge debt of gratitude for what they have researched, compiled and published regarding BR wagons. I could produce a similar list for earlier periods of those to to whom we are indebted too.  David Larkin in particular through his works has enabled me to get a much clearer picture of what was around at Nationalisation and enabled me to model it more accurately. I'm hugely looking forward to his planned volume on the pre-1923 wooden minerals, and the information amassed in the RCH 1923 volume is simply amazing.

 

There have been a number of discussions on this forum about the balance between completeness,  having all the information, and actually getting something published.  Thus no reference work is truly complete.  The one you linked to has a wealth of interesting information in and more vans types than most of us will ever be able to model.   Does it have everything though? No, it doesn't and I wouldn't expect it to. Its focus is primarily, but not exclusively the Grouping era vans (the coverage of the bewildering variety of LMS vans is particularly useful). The coverage of the pre-Grouping vans is less complete, not least because these didn't last so long, weren't well photographed (as is the problem with covering containers) in the early BR era, and the data presumably no long exist. Thus being comprehensive is essentially impossible. 

 

To give a couple of examples of  omissions in this area, the book does not seem to mention the LNWR D88 van. In pictures from the years immediately after nationalisation these pop up surprisingly frequently. Also there is only one GN general merchandise van and no GN fruit van features. Does it matter, even for awkward people like me that model the early BR era? No, because the book is still an invaluable resource.

 

Regards,

Simon

Edited October 12, 2023 by 65179

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, 65179 said:

 

Clive, please don't misinterpret my comment. I was just responding to you're all you need to know comment in what was intended as a light hearted fashion. I'm sorry if it seemed flippant, and I've deleted the post because it was misleading. We owe David Larkin, Don Rowland, Paul Bartlett and others a huge debt of gratitude for what they have researched, compiled and published regarding BR wagons. I could produce a similar list for earlier periods of those to to whom we are indebted too.  David Larkin in particular through his works has enabled me to get a much clearer picture of what was around at Nationalisation and enabled me to model it more accurately. I'm hugely looking forward to his planned volume on the pre-1923 wooden minerals, and the information amassed in the RCH 1923 volume is simply amazing.

 

There have been a number of discussions on this forum about the balance between completeness,  having all the information, and actually getting something published.  Thus no reference work is truly complete.  The one you linked to has a wealth of interesting information in and more vans types than most of us will ever be able to model.   Does it have everything though? No, it doesn't and I wouldn't expect it to. Its focus is primarily, but not exclusively the Grouping era vans (the coverage of the bewildering variety of LMS vans is particularly useful). The coverage of the pre-Grouping vans is less complete, not least because these didn't last so long, weren't well photographed (as is the problem with covering containers) in the early BR era, and the data presumably no long exist. Thus being comprehensive is essentially impossible. 

 

To give a couple of examples of  omissions in this area, the book does not seem to mention the LNWR D88 van. In pictures from the years immediately after nationalisation these pop up surprisingly frequently. Also there is only one GN general merchandise van and no GN fruit van features. Does it matter, even for awkward people like me that model the early BR era? No, because the book is still an invaluable resource.

 

Regards,

Simon

 

When they were available, I acquired - as no small investment - a full set of David Larkin's Wagon Data Sheets.

 

This was the best investment that I ever made, and the core source for Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

John Isherwood.

Edited October 12, 2023 by cctransuk

[Blandford1969]

12 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

The main problem with the DJH kit is the tender which has oval cut outs as per the NER drawing, rather than the shaped version actually carried by all tenders of thetype used on the D20s.

I do not have the drawings or any kits that Arthur produced, but going from photographs they look pretty good.

I think the front frames on one variant are also suspect on the DJH kit.

Bernard

Arthur supplies both types of front frames, which I will use on 2020 with the original frames being used with Arthurs D20 kit. I had seen how little the DJH tender looked like the actual tender frames.

[Tony Wright]

I'm writing my review of the Hornby Turbomotives............

 

 

The finish is exemplary.

 

 

And attention to detail differences is first class.

 

I've had them both on test this morning......

 

 

I've not bothered fitting the extra detail to the LMS version.

 

 

I don't have that many carriages in LMS livery.

 

 

Still, by bringing some ex-LMS carriages down from the higher circuit, I was able to give a reasonable load to 46202.

 

 

 

I think we can say that this never happened in reality.

 

Both locos performed superbly, and I've shot some video footage as well. 

 

I think these are both outstanding models!

 

 

[46444]

Lovely sequence of shots with nicely shot angles.  Although not prototypicle the Turbomotives are certainly not out of place. 

 

Certainly not in my sphere of interest  but I saw these in Osbourne's in Rushden on Tuesday.

 

Once more the size of the packaging is something to be in awe of.  Will (Owner of Osbourne's) also informed me that the sound fitted models are more akin to a jet engine.

 

In the meantime I departed with my two Hornby Standard Class 2MT 78xxx's.

 

Very pleased I am too with them.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

Edited October 12, 2023 by 46444