Wright writes.....

[Tony Teague]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I've been looking at prototype pictures, and the angle of the cylinders on these SR 4-6-0s varies slightly from example to example (I must investigate further). On your top model, the angle is quite steep, yet on the Hornby one the cylinders are almost horizontal (incidentally, the Hornby one has the incorrect 'lean' to the return crank on this side - it should lean forwards at bottom dead centre. That said, it's still an exquisite model, and probably a better one than that which I'm building with my friend).

Interesting - and of course if you were just to see any one of these alone you (or I, anyway) might not notice such subtle differences.

The quality of the RTR model, which is a fairly recent Hornby production, is such that it might certainly put off all but the most committed kit builder - as you have observed many times before.

Tony

[MJI]

I like S15s, something about them. But have to draw the line somewhere!

[drmditch]

As people have commented above, English in common use seems to become more and more degraded every day.

There was a time when use of the word 'mostest' would immediately be recognised as a joke.

Not, I think, any more.

 

While I appreciate that language does change over time, I find it sad that we are loosing definition and subtlety, especially with comparatives and superlatives.

 

As to steam locomotives, I  think that where only one of a design was produced, as with the U1 (in LNER classification anyway) or the Midland 'Big Bertha', then the word 'unique' does apply.

Where a class was constructed, as with the A4s, then in a time when much work was done by individual craftsmen, they were all likely to be slightly different.

(If I understand correctly the final shape of the streamlining was not defined in the Drawing Office until Silver Link had been built.)

I presume that this was what is now referred to as  'artisan' tradition. 

Would the time-served Blacksmiths and Fitters who did the work have recognised that word?

 

This, of course, leads into the whole discussion of 'interchangeable parts', which is a different subject.

For reference note the different numbers stamped onto 60007's motion parts.

 

I find that my use of language (which has probably deteriorated of late) depends on my early education and 'what sounds right'.

I might have to look up the actual grammar later!

 

I had a problem several years ago in a job interview when the interviewer used the word 'forecasted'.

I could not but flinch, and then had to explain why!

Since the lady wouldn't have recognised a participle if it came and bit her, I did not get the job.

I would not have wanted it anyway!

 

I note that the Met Office now uses both 'forecast' and 'forecasted', and I am too lazy to work out why.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by drmditch

[Barry Ten]

I tend to be fairly relaxed about shifting English usage but one that does grate with me lately is "aircrafts". Has it now

been decided that "aircraft" is singular only, or is it simply ignorance? I've seen it employed in both BBC news reports and in The Guardian.

[drmditch]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

And when I arrive somewhere as part of a group, I'm not too shy to rebuke any host (or host's employee) who dares to "greet" us with the detestable "hi guys", especially if the group includes women. Women are not "guys" in any possible sense, nor am I, as I'm English not American, my name isn't Guy, and I'm not a catholic traitor trying to blow up King James I !!!!

 

The use of 'guys' leads onto other aspects of language and gender politics, which are probably best avoided on this thread!

It is the 'hi' I would object to, not the 'guys'!!!

[lezz01]

I will admit to using the term "guys" on my own thread. I have no defence other than it's my thread and because we had septic tanks stationed with us in W Germany I do tend to use some American terms. However I agree that the use of aircrafts by the media is unforgivable. I will point out that it has ever been thus my farther was appalled at my English I was appalled at my children's English and I can barely understand my grand children at all.

Regards Lez.

[woodenhead]

Language constantly evolves, otherwise we'd all be grunting at one another and bashing each other over the head with a big club.

 

Victorian English was different to Middle English and the variety of words in the language certainly changed between 1901 and 1970.

 

It's quite normal that we will speak differently than our children and it's unlikely you speak exactly as your parents did.

 

 

[Richard_A]

Regarding fitting the axle bushes, are they best fitted from the outside, like shown in the picture attached, or from the inside? 

 

Also, do I need to file them flat to the frame, once soldered in? 

[PMP]

2 hours ago, drmditch said:

 

I note that the Met Office now uses both 'forecast' and 'forecasted', and I am too lazy to work out why.

 

From a professional perspective, a forecast made at 1200hrs predicts rain at 1700hrs. At 1500hrs we’re looking at operational aspects and we know at 1200hrs the forecasted prediction was rain at 1700hrs. So we have a time that the forecast was made. We can check current weather and then assess the accuracy, any changes, and make tactical decisions based on the two and any current actual weather reports.

[JeremyC]

25 minutes ago, rka said:

Regarding fitting the axle bushes, are they best fitted from the outside, like shown in the picture attached, or from the inside? 

 

Also, do I need to file them flat to the frame, once soldered in? 

I have always fitted them from the outside and would only file them back if there was a clearance issue, e.g. to clear a gearbox on the axle. The longer the bearing the better.

Edited December 21, 2023 by JeremyC

[Richard_A]

1 minute ago, JeremyC said:

I have always fitted them from the outside and would only file them back if there was a clearance issue, e.g. to clear a gearbox on the axle. The longer the bearing the better.

Thank you, 

 

I didn't think that there was much point in filing them back, time to crank up the iron. 

[Tony Teague]

49 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Language constantly evolves, otherwise we'd all be grunting at one another and bashing each other over the head with a big club.

Victorian English was different to Middle English and the variety of words in the language certainly changed between 1901 and 1970.

It's quite normal that we will speak differently than our children and it's unlikely you speak exactly as your parents did.

 

Certainly true, but I am still quite allergic to words that are used by the younger generations to have meanings almost diametrically opposed to their historic interpretation, such as "fierce" and "dope" etc, also the tendency for pronunciation or accents to veer towards imitating those who can't speak English properly in the first place!

Very wierd!

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Splitting hairs, Tony?

 

Yes, say, there were 35 A4s originally (34 after one was destroyed at York during the War), and each one was 'unique', but there were still 35 of them after the last one was built. There was only one 'Big Bertha' and one LNER Garratt, but that couldn't possibly make those two 'more unique' than a class with numerous examples, could it? 

 

Ah, the delights of English gymnastics! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

I wonder if it demonstrates that there can be degrees of uniqueness. A one off loco is certainly unique but if in a class of locos like the A4s, there is only one "Mallard", isn't "Mallard" still unique but not quite as unique as the U1 as there are other very similar examples around.

 

Another matter to consider. If there were lots of members of a class, with only one preserved, then that loco has gone from being not unique to being unique, without any change to the loco at all. So is something like "Flying Scotsman" unique now all the others have gone

 

I enjoy watching the "grammar police" do their work but sometimes I wonder if fighting to keep an ever changing language as they think it should stay is a thankless and fruitless task.

 

It is not as if we can ever go back to the days when we had "railway stations" rather than "train stations", so getting worked up about it just raises our collective blood pressures and alters nothing.

 

I used to enjoy winding Malcolm up on that one. I would tell him that he was happy to catch a bus at a bus station, so he couldn't be unhappy to catch a train at a train station. Light blue touchpaper and stand back!

 

 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

My car reg is unique, unless someone has cloned it.

[Clive Mortimore]

Yo Dudes, whats a happening? All this natter about the English language, this is proper English. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njK4FkfiP4o

 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Certainly true, but I am still quite allergic to words that are used by the younger generations to have meanings almost diametrically opposed to their historic interpretation, such as "fierce" and "dope" etc, also the tendency for pronunciation or accents to veer towards imitating those who can't speak English properly in the first place!

Very wierd!

One that most amuses me is reference to "The Feds".  Since there is no law enforcement organisation with Federal in its title in the UK, it may be the ultimate case of, "Watching too much television".

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

One that most amuses me is reference to "The Feds".  Since there is no law enforcement organisation with Federal in its title in the UK, it may be the ultimate case of, "Watching too much television".

 

I think more listening to "Rap Music". Came from the fact that many of the rappers in the 1980s were on the FBI watchlists.

 

 

 

As for unique, how about these from Murray Walker?

 

"The lead car is absolutely unique, except for the one behind it which is identical"

 

"There's nothing wrong with the car except it's on fire"

 

"With half the race gone there is half the race to go"

 

"I imagine the conditions in those cars are totally unimaginable"

 

"Either that car is stationary or it's on the move"

 

"Do my eyes deceive me or is Senna's car sounding a bit rough?"

 

"And there’s no damage to the car. Except to the car itself"

 

"Excuse me while I interrupt myself"

 

"And the first five places are filled by five different cars"

 

 

 

Jason

[Bucoops]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I think more listening to "Rap Music". Came from the fact that many of the rappers in the 1980s were on the FBI watchlists.

 

 

 

As for unique, how about these from Murray Walker?

 

"The lead car is absolutely unique, except for the one behind it which is identical"

 

"There's nothing wrong with the car except it's on fire"

 

"With half the race gone there is half the race to go"

 

"I imagine the conditions in those cars are totally unimaginable"

 

"Either that car is stationary or it's on the move"

 

"Do my eyes deceive me or is Senna's car sounding a bit rough?"

 

"And there’s no damage to the car. Except to the car itself"

 

"Excuse me while I interrupt myself"

 

"And the first five places are filled by five different cars"

 

 

 

Jason

 

Like Wogan and Eurovision, Walker made F1 tolerable. Much missed.

[Northmoor]

7 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Like Wogan and Eurovision, Walker made F1 tolerable. Much missed.

For all his Murray-isms, he was vastly preferable to the sychophants who make up too many of the presenters now.   He knew his motorsport inside out (down to grassroots level that never got on TV), whereas they talk about the F1 circus as if nothing else exists.  TBH I've largely given up watching Formula One since it seems to be more showbusiness and less sport with every season.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

For all his Murray-isms, he was vastly preferable to the sychophants who make up too many of the presenters now.   He knew his motorsport inside out (down to grassroots level that never got on TV), whereas they talk about the F1 circus as if nothing else exists.  TBH I've largely given up watching Formula One since it seems to be more showbusiness and less sport with every season.

 

Murray Walker is the only household name I've ever met. I was buying tyres for my TR3 one day, parked in the queue with the other cars. Around the corner, quite unexpectedly came Murray and the man who I knew to be the owner of the business. Murray made a beeline for my car and we chatted for something like 10 minutes. He knew more about my vehicle that I did! A thoroughly decent, knowledgable man, quite without any pretence.

 

Eventually he was dragged away by the other chap because apparently he was there to open an extension the the garage.

 

Another Murray story which comes from one of his books. During WW2 he was a tank commander stuck in the 'queue' of vehicles trying to reach the 'Bridge Too Far' at Arnheim. Out of the blue his father - who at that time was a war photographer - suddenly appeared. I cannot imagine the feelings either of them had. Luckily they both survived unscathed.

 

What a life he had, the knockers never knew a fraction of it.

[Dunsignalling]

20 hours ago, drmditch said:

 

The use of 'guys' leads onto other aspects of language and gender politics, which are probably best avoided on this thread!

It is the 'hi' I would object to, not the 'guys'!!!

The one that really gets my goat is the use of the pronoun "they" in news reports that clearly involve only one person.

 

I know why the media do so, but in (for example) road accident reports, it gets wafted about willy-nilly indiscriminately when "the driver" or "the rider" is perfectly neutral.

 

There must be a less clunky way, even if it requires the creation of a new non-gender-specific singular pronoun for persons of non-specific gender.

 

John

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[lezz01]

My own preference in motorsport is the WEC series, it's far better than F1 and includes one of the only proper races left La Mans 24 hour everything else is just a sprint race by comparison. La Mans was better before the FIA got involved with their BOP regulations but you can always rely on the FIA to mess everything they touch up they run the biggest protection racket on earth.

Regards Lez.   

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Northmoor said:

For all his Murray-isms, he was vastly preferable to the sychophants who make up too many of the presenters now.   He knew his motorsport inside out (down to grassroots level that never got on TV), whereas they talk about the F1 circus as if nothing else exists.  TBH I've largely given up watching Formula One since it seems to be more showbusiness and less sport with every season.

F1 lost me as a fan when it went pay.

 

Used to be glued to it, best coverage was BBC and Murray Walker.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Northmoor said:

For all his Murray-isms, he was vastly preferable to the sychophants who make up too many of the presenters now.   He knew his motorsport inside out (down to grassroots level that never got on TV), whereas they talk about the F1 circus as if nothing else exists.  TBH I've largely given up watching Formula One since it seems to be more showbusiness and less sport with every season.

My favourite used to be the rallycross from Lydden Hill.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

10 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I tend to be fairly relaxed about shifting English usage but one that does grate with me lately is "aircrafts".

The thang be that English not ours but everyones.  Across the North Sea, I have been one of the most 'relaxter' of UK nationals these last forty years. Elsewhere far away  I was much amused to hear of suspected felons departing on 'fleet foots'; and while in yet another location, happily remember the taxi tout that asked me 'If I wanted a driving where too?'.  I suspect that while grammarians might not approve, it did the job and he magicked me a taxi very swiftly, when there hadn't been a vehicle in sight  during the previous quarter hour.