Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Bill Richmond's LMS mainline-various MRJs

Thanks jrg1.

 

I've not seen this, so does it fit my criteria? 

 

Is it a depiction of a section of the WCML? If so which bit? If it's LMS, does it have 'Duchesses' and 'Princesses' aplenty, and 15-coach trains? Also all the 4-6-0 variants, plus the masses of freight locos?

 

I'm sure it's fantastic work, but is it the equivalent of those OO/EM layouts I've mentioned? If it is, I'll be mightily impressed. 

[ianwales]

Thanks jrg1.

 

I've not seen this, so does it fit my criteria? 

 

Is it a depiction of a section of the WCML? If so which bit? If it's LMS, does it have 'Duchesses' and 'Princesses' aplenty, and 15-coach trains? Also all the 4-6-0 variants, plus the masses of freight locos?

 

I'm sure it's fantastic work, but is it the equivalent of those OO/EM layouts I've mentioned? If it is, I'll be mightily impressed. 

 

Hi Tony

 

If you can get a look at them some where the issues you want is MRJ's nos 26, 27 and 107

 

Ian

[nerron]

Thanks jrg1.

 

I've not seen this, so does it fit my criteria? 

 

Is it a depiction of a section of the WCML? If so which bit? If it's LMS, does it have 'Duchesses' and 'Princesses' aplenty, and 15-coach trains? Also all the 4-6-0 variants, plus the masses of freight locos?

 

I'm sure it's fantastic work, but is it the equivalent of those OO/EM layouts I've mentioned? If it is, I'll be mightily impressed. 

Tony,

It is the Tring layout in New Zealand that you referred to in one of your previous posts.

[teaky]

Hi Ian,

 

Nos. 26 & 27 are Bill Richmond's Tring layout which Tony referred to in an earlier post.  In 1988 it was still being built.  It does look good but there's not much mention of extensive stock and if it doesn't run then ....

 

No. 107 appears to be Chippenham in 00?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Preston in P4

 

And can I make a plea that this thread - so far so interesting - does not further regress into OO vs P4 and the usual tired, dull 'debate'.

[jrg1]

Thanks jrg1.

 

I've not seen this, so does it fit my criteria? 

 

Is it a depiction of a section of the WCML? If so which bit? If it's LMS, does it have 'Duchesses' and 'Princesses' aplenty, and 15-coach trains? Also all the 4-6-0 variants, plus the masses of freight locos?

 

I'm sure it's fantastic work, but is it the equivalent of those OO/EM layouts I've mentioned? If it is, I'll be mightily impressed. 

All this and more Tony.  There is a photo feature in this edition of The Clearing House-the BRMA magazine (British Railway Modellers of Australia).  The layout modelled the southern end of the WCML, from Euston, and included Tring Cutting.  Bill Richmond had various structures built by BRMA members (Doric Arch and Primrose Hill tunnel-Alex Mathieson, Euston Offices-David Mitchell, Euston Signalbox-Harry Howell).  It had correct express formations running at high speed, and extensive marshalling yards.   

[ianwales]

Hi Ian,

 

Nos. 26 & 27 are Bill Richmond's Tring layout which Tony referred to in an earlier post.  In 1988 it was still being built.  It does look good but there's not much mention of extensive stock and if it doesn't run then ....

 

No. 107 appears to be Chippenham in 00?

 

Sorry my mistake, I wrote down 105 but typed 107!!!, it was a follow up article on page 209 of issue 105. 107 is indeed as you say Roy Ball's model of Chippenham, a model I have had the pleasure of operating several times.

 

Ian

 

Ian

[Peter Kazmierczak]

In the fullness of things, does it really matter if a (4mm scale) layout uses OO track, HO track, EM, P4 or whatever?

 

As long as the layout:

• Looks like a real railway
• Has a sense of time and place
• Runs well
• Is operated in a railway-like manner
• Gives the builder/owner (and others) pleasure
• Has that elusive railway atmosphere

What more does one want? Life is too short to nit pick.

[t-b-g]

There is at least one P4 main line ECML layout that runs with Pacifics hauling lengthy trains. It is being built by Mike Wakefield and is based on Grantham. There is a photo of several long freights working "permissive block" in a recent MRJ.

 

I have seen a Pacific going round at a scale 90mph with (from memory) 12 carriages.

 

It hasn't really appeared much in the press yet and it is still very much work in progress but when I saw it several years ago, the main circuits were laid and operational.

 

So it is possible. I don't think that Mike would say that it has and it has been easy and it has required a great deal of effort and dedication but it can be done.

 

Tony

[johnarcher]

I suppose that's it, it's a matter of one's own priorities - you can do the big main line in P4 but it will take a lot longer, if that sort of scene is your main interest and you don't expect to live to 150 maybe you will trade off some appearance for the chance of getting it made - EM or 00. Personally I would prefer to trade the other way, if I could only have the look of finer flanges and flangeways etc by settling for a much simpler prototype that's fine.

As you'll see on the left my current interest is Irish 00n3, that's using basically EM standards, but only because I can't find an 8mm P4 spoked wheel (anyone know of one?), if I could I'd accept I might only produce 2 or 3 locos rather than 5 or 6 and go for P4.

Just a personal choice of what's most important to you.

[sandra]

Before I started building my latest layout I experimented by building stock and track in P4 in the form of a shunting plank. I soon realised that converting diesels to P4 was much easier than converting steam locomotives. I also realised that whilst it was possible to get P4 to work, it took much longer than in other scales. This was, of course, entirely due to my own incompetence and lack of skill but I intended to build a reasonably large layout and I seriously worried that I would never get it finished if it was built in P4. I do believe that a large main line layout could be built in P4 but it would be difficult for only one individual to build it. However a team of experienced modellers should be able to succeed.

 

Therefore I decided to build my layout in EM which seemed to be a reasonable compromise and which has proved only marginally more difficult than OO. The layout is a model of Andover Junction on the line from Waterloo to Salisbury in about 1957 so there have to be lots of Bullied pacifics, King Arthurs etc. However if I was building a contemporary model of Andover Junction or one set in the last, say, thirty years then I would seriously have considered P4 as the line would obviously feature only diesel locomotives or units and the track plan would be much simpler. So really it does depend on your skill level, whether you have any help and also the type and period of railway you wish to model.

 

Sandra

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

It is the Tring layout in New Zealand that you referred to in one of your previous posts.

Ron,

 

Yes.

[Clive Mortimore]

In the fullness of things, does it really matter if a (4mm scale) layout uses OO track, HO track, EM, P4 or whatever?

 

As long as the layout:

• Looks like a real railway
• Has a sense of time and place
• Runs well
• Is operated in a railway-like manner
• Gives the builder/owner (and others) pleasure
• Has that elusive railway atmosphere

What more does one want? Life is too short to nit pick.

Hi Peter

 

This is the most important part of model railways. I have seen many layouts and operated quite a few that I would be very happy never to see again, but that is my personal view. All I know is the owners are enjoying themselves so who am I or anyone else to take away their pleasure.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Clive,

I always like stating the b------- obvious.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

PS How's your spelling of Tinsley these days?  

[Tony Wright]

In the fullness of things, does it really matter if a (4mm scale) layout uses OO track, HO track, EM, P4 or whatever?

 

As long as the layout:

• Looks like a real railway
• Has a sense of time and place
• Runs well
• Is operated in a railway-like manner
• Gives the builder/owner (and others) pleasure
• Has that elusive railway atmosphere

What more does one want? Life is too short to nit pick.

Peter,

 

I couldn't agree more with your list above. It should be a maxim for all railway modellers. I wish I'd made it.

 

As for the running well bit, I'd cite that as probably the most important element, because at least two (maybe three) of the other statements are conditional upon it. The reason I don't include the first two statements as being conditional to good running is that I could have built (to the best of my ability) the bit of the M&GNR on my railway to represent the spring of 1959, just after it was closed!

 

As for the OO/EM/P4 debate, it's been thrashed out already and we all have our points of view. Personally, I feel I'm down a 'dead-end' with FS OO, but too far down to turn back. 40 years ago, I had the chance to go EM. I wished I'd taken it, but there you go.

 

But, at least I can achieve good running. Or I thought I could.......

 

 

Today, three good friends came for a day's running on LB. Jeff (Physicsman), Jason Thomas (of Bacup fame) and Geoff West all took turns at driving. We ran part of the sequence and in two hours or so of quite intensive operation two wagons chose to derail (one in a 25-vehicle rake and one in a 35-vehicle rake)! This is absolute anathema to me, so the cause will be investigated. Not only that, during some free-running later (when I was absent) I'm told a loco pony came off! So much for my boasting about trouble-free running. In my defence, I might point out that dozens of other movements were completed without fuss or failure. However, pride comes before a fall, as is said.

 

 

 

Jason brought examples of his recent work including these outstanding Parkside wagons and a beautifully-natural 'Stanier Five'. What happened to the smokebox dart, we're not sure. The loco is a much-modified Hornby item, weathered to perfection. It ran beautifully, including many laps on the M&GNR. 

 

 

 

 

He also brought examples of his recent architectural modelling. Again, this was outstanding and bodes well for the future of the hobby when slightly-less-old blokes (and blokettes) are turning out stuff as good as this. 

 

Geoff West comes regularly for 'tuition', goes away for a month and then brings back his homework, this time in the form of a nicely-weathered B1 (which I didn't photograph, unfortunately). I've written 'extremely good progress made' on his report.

 

Gentlemen, thank you for a most entertaining day. Great fun, great company, and we really 'played trains'!

[Andrew P]

Hi Tony, looks like a nice gathering again today, I have visited both Jason's Bacup and Jeff's former Kirkby Luneside, and it was the running on both that convinced me to go down the Marcway  / SMP route, and then of course I saw LB in the flesh as well.

 

Oh its so nice for grown men to be able to play trains and both admit it and enjoy it, hahaha.

 

All the best.

[westerner]

Tony, I suspect British Railways had wished that their derailments had happened as few times as they do on or is it at Little Bytham. Whilst we all wish it would never happen, it did happen in real life and we like British Railways, British Rail and Network Rail investigate the cause to stop it happening again.

[Jason T]

Jeff and I had a fantastic day yesterday. Not only did we have the pleasure of meeting Tony, Mo, Geoff, George and Ian, but we were made to feel welcome, got to see the stunning Little Bytham in the flesh (and to use the old cliche, even Tony's lovely photos don't do it justice) and also run a procession of lovely locos and stock pretty much at will. Added to that, conversation and laughter (a lot of laughter) flowed all day.

 

To top the day off, we then headed over to see Gilbert and the equally stunning Peterborough North; a flying visit but no less of a pleasure.

My heartfelt thanks to Tony, Mo and Gilbert for their warm and friendly hospitality.

 

I'm looking forward to the return visis to Bingley / Bacup and also to future visits down the A1.

 

Best regards,

 

Jason.

[2ManySpams]

Jeff and I had a fantastic day yesterday. Not only did we have the pleasure of meeting Tony, Mo, Geoff, George and Ian, but we were made to feel welcome, got to see the stunning Little Bytham in the flesh (and to use the old cliche, even Tony's lovely photos don't do it justice) and also run a procession of lovely locos and stock pretty much at will. Added to that, conversation and laughter (a lot of laughter) flowed all day.

To top the day off, we then headed over to see Gilbert and the equally stunning Peterborough North; a flying visit but no less of a pleasure.

My heartfelt thanks to Tony, Mo and Gilbert for their warm and friendly hospitality.

I'm looking forward to the return visis to Bingley / Bacup and also to future visits down the A1.

Best regards,

Jason.

It's really heartening to see the trend for RMweb to move beyond the virtual interaction on the net and on to enjoyable face to face sessions. There's many doomsayers predicting the death of modelling and operating but I can see a whole bunch of '40 something' modellers coming up through the ranks. Many are doing things their own way, different to the previous club culture, and most seem to be making maximum use of the internet for recording their endeavours, learning and building a widely spread network of friends. All very positive.

[Physicsman]

Tony, can I echo what Jason said in his earlier post.....

 

Yesterday was an absolute pleasure. Many thanks to yourself and Mo for making us feel totally at home. It was great to meet Ian, George and Geoff, as well as Milly the cat!

 

I know we both really enjoyed ourselves - 6 hours went by in a flash, and "playing trains" was superb on Little Bytham.

 

I've posted a few photos in the Lunester Lounge, but I've included one - of a smiling Jason - below.

 

Looking forward to a return trip. An excellent day!

 

 

Jeff

 

 

[Horsetan]

.....What more does one want? Life is too short to nit pick.

 

Yes, but some of us are cursed by long life.

[Andrew P]

It's really heartening to see the trend for RMweb to move beyond the virtual interaction on the net and on to enjoyable face to face sessions. There's many doomsayers predicting the death of modelling and operating but I can see a whole bunch of '40 something' modellers coming up through the ranks. Many are doing things their own way, different to the previous club culture, and most seem to be making maximum use of the internet for recording their endeavours, learning and building a widely spread network of friends. All very positive.

Your right Chris, and I do think it will happen more and more, it was John Edge (Allegheny1600) that asked me and asked if I would like a day out to see a very special layout, to help my recuperation, at the time I knew not where, but I accepted.

Now he drove down from North of Manchester, came out of his way to pic me up from Swad, and then we went over to LB.

I had such a wonderful day, even though I found it tiring its a day out I wont forget, and that's due the the kindness of two fellow R M Web members neither of whom I had never met until the morning John picked me up and we arrived at Tony's.

 

I hope to be able to return the favours once I have Bitton up and running, Oh and Chris, your not more than 8 Miles from me either.

 

Long may it continue.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

So much love, it's like Mumsnet on here these days.  

[2ManySpams]

So much love, it's like Mumsnet on here these days.

 

I refer the honourable gentleman to any number of locked threads that show all is not Mumsnet. ;-p

[LNER4479]

So much love, it's like Mumsnet on here these days.  

Never been on that one... what's it like?