Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Were the layouts running poorly, or were they being operated poorly?

 

I found at Warley that on many of the layouts, the “operators” were more preoccupied with the social side of the exhibition, to the extent that putting on a good show for the public was not the priority. Also, some operators, particularly with shunting oriented layouts, seemed to like constantly ‘fiddling’ with stock on the front of house even when unnecessary.

 

It can make a big difference whether the layout is being operated by the A or B team, and the longer the exhibition, the more likely you are to see fatigue coming in to play.

 

There is a really wide variation across layouts regarding how well things are managed at exhibitions.

Phil,

 

I think your question is a bit more about semantics. To me, whether it's because of bad building or lack of concentration (or both), if the end result is poor running, then that's just poor running in my book. No excuses! 

 

I do agree about an A or a B (or a C?) team. Often inexperienced operators are brought in because there is no alternative. I suppose that might count as an excuse, but the end result can be the same.

 

Which team I might be in would probably be much further on in the alphabet. Today, a mate an I operated part of LB's sequence. I made a few mistakes (fatigue after the weekend?) and he made a couple. We were just saying to ourselves that at least any 'problems' weren't the fault of the layout, when a wagon derailed - on straight track, right in front of us. This hobby always has a habit of, just when you least expect it, biting you in the ar$e! 

[Tony Wright]

Let's see now......."get your hair cut, you look like a girl (that'll be Sheila to you, Jesse ).  And why you're at it, start wearing your bloody hat the right way round - you half-wit.....  :jester:

 

How close am I, Tony?

Close, though I'd never describe Jesse as a half-wit.

 

Indeed, as I've said before, he challenges my prejudices, which is no bad thing. He's also, which is far more important than appearance, developing into a first-rate modeller.

[Tony Wright]

Almost every Parkside kit is a lovely, relaxing way to pass an hour (or so). The ex Chivers range are even easier and quicker, except for the LNER van that needs a little more additional work to make it 'sparkle'; etched grabs/Commodes and handles for example.

Most plastic wagon and van kits, in my experience, can benefit from replacement buffers from that fine Mr. Franks. I am also amazed at the way in which some folk can turn a standard plastic wagon or van, especially the old Airfix range, into a damn fine model with all sorts of clever additional details such as faux fabric roofing (often 'battered' and well worn). Not so long ago I saw some really excellent Airfix/Dapol Brake van kits shown on this Forum (not this thread, as far as I know?)

For a little more challenge, the Cambrian range, especially the hoppers, are excellent.

In this January's RM there are examples of two (think it is two) school MR Club layouts, one of which was a Show winner. The possibility of helping out at such a club would be the only way I would be dragged back into a school to work with teenagers. I'd be more open to helping with top Juniors as they are usually great fun and have not developed that rather strange approach to life that almost all secondary students I encounter (by accident, not by choice)seem to adopt.

It is great news that such MR Clubs, actually in schools, still exist.

Further information on good plastic kits to play with would be welcome thank you. 

I think it would be a relatively short hop from giving youngsters plenty of skill development opportunities with plastic kits to introducing some of them to some Etched wagon/van Kits and the necessary soldering and light metalwork skills to achieve success. 

That's enough, otherwise I shall be hankering after my old Middle School Craft Room facilities that lasted but a decade before the County, in which I worked for  a few years (Craft and Games), reverted again to Primary Education rather than the First and Middle School idea; what a complete waste of money* and equipment that was (*no, not employing me but the furniture, tools and machines as well as special buildings in many places).

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

Very positively, H&A Models told me at the end of the show that they'd sold quite a few plastic wagon kits. Whether, in part, it was because of my demonstration, I'm not sure. But it was certainly encouraging. 

[Tony Wright]

Actually Tony, talking about the first time we met, I just found this photo.

 

I think this was around when you told me to get a haircut!!!

Believe it or not, I've lost weight since then. My belly was too big!

[bbishop]

Jesse,

 

Is that a thong on your head?

 

Bill

[Bucoops]

Jesse,

 

Is that a thong on your head?

 

Bill

 

You may need to be more specific as I believe in 'stralia a thong is a flip-flop!

[Tony Teague]

Congratulations Tony, on achieving 30,000 posts on this thread!

A major achievement.

 

Tony

[Clem]

Evening Clem,

 

a question with regard to your diag 210 twin. Did you acertain wich side the vac pipe is positioned with regard to the sole bars and the direction of lean of the upright hose atachements?

 

I believe I did based on this photo amongst others. The D210s are in the siding to the right and the slant of the upright vac pipe is the same as mine indicating the side of the pipe. Incidentally, the A5 is pulling a couple of D310 steel panelled twins which as a class were split between Notts and West Riding areas

[petrovich]

Congratulations Tony, on achieving 30,000 posts on this thread!

A major achievement.

 

Tony

Congratulations Tony and to all the contributors on what is the best thread on the forum.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Headstock]

I believe I did based on this photo amongst others. The D210s are in the siding to the right and the slant of the upright vac pipe is the same as mine indicating the side of the pipe. Incidentally, the A5 is pulling a couple of D310 steel panelled twins which as a class were split between Notts and West Riding areas

 

Thanks Clem,

 

that's very useful. Typically, I was looking through my own photographs tonight, one of V2 60831 at the head of a twin at Nottingham Victoria. I had failed to notice the second twin alongside the first in the middle road, it confirms the arrangement in your shot. I'm awaiting a GA drawing and also the Isinglass drawing, the latter seems to be tacking an age to arrive. Incidentally, the etch has Master class models and C.C. Higgs 2012 etched on it, I don't know if you or anybody else as ever heard of the names. The kit fits together perfectly, one of the best I have ever assembled.

[65179]

Thanks Clem,

that's very useful. Typically, I was looking through my own photographs tonight, one of V2 60831 at the head of a twin at Nottingham Victoria. I had failed to notice the second twin alongside the first in the middle road, it confirms the arrangement in your shot. I'm awaiting a GA drawing and also the Isinglass drawing, the latter seems to be tacking an age to arrive. Incidentally, the etch has Master class models and C.C. Higgs 2012 etched on it, I don't know if you or anybody else as ever heard of the names. The kit fits together perfectly, one of the best I have ever assembled.

Masterclass Models is the name that Chris Higgs of this parish operates as. He's done a whole host of coaching stock kits in 2mm scale and a smaller amount of stuff in other scales including a BR CCT which has been reviewed in MRJ in the past. His 2mm stuff goes together very nicely.

 

Simon

[Clive Mortimore]

I know, Mike, isn't it astonishing?

 

Steve Barnfield and Geoff Haynes were demonstrating soldering techniques, so I was asked to demonstrate something else.

 

Parkside bogie brick wagon.jpg

 

And here's the result - yet to be painted, of course. 

 

What a cracking kit. If anyone can't build something like this, then, in my view, they should take up another hobby. 

 

Is it suitable for LB? In the main, these brick wagons ran between Peterborough and London. However, evidence suggests that they would be used as a 'fitted head' on heavy coal trains as well. Thus, they might have worked north. And, anyway, they'd have to go north for repair. 

 

Addison Road 26.jpg

 

Returning to the Peterborough Show, the best thing there in my view was Kensington Addison Road, built in O Gauge by the Twickenham Club. When I saw it at Ally Pally, it ran very well.

 

Hope Under Dinmore 03.jpg

 

Another layout I've seen which works very well is Hope Under Dinmore, in EM.

 

Why some layouts were running poorly at Peterborough, I don't know. 

Hello Tony

 

Parkside do some wonderful wagon kits. There range of LNER and BR vans is great. Pity they do not do a LMS van. Ratio do one and it is an OK model but not the same league as Parkside. Plus for a BR period "modern Image" modeller it lacks the modifications  carried out in the 1950s. Dapol do the old Airfix LMS designed but BR built van, thankfully no longer on its fictitious underframe, but that too needs its 1950s modifications. What always surprises me is the number of really good layouts where you know there is a high level of research and modelling but there it is in the middle of the train the Bachmann LMS van. You know it is the Bachmann van because it is 4mm lower than the GWR next to it where it should be a mm higher. Why do good modellers not see it is wrong very wrong.

[jwealleans]

As 65179 says, Chris Higgs posts on this site and his 2mm etches are very highly spoken of.

 

I haven't tried his D210 yet, but it's on my 'like to...' list.

Edited December 10, 2018 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

Hello Tony

 

Parkside do some wonderful wagon kits. There range of LNER and BR vans is great. Pity they do not do a LMS van. Ratio do one and it is an OK model but not the same league as Parkside. Plus for a BR period "modern Image" modeller it lacks the modifications  carried out in the 1950s. Dapol do the old Airfix LMS designed but BR built van, thankfully no longer on its fictitious underframe, but that too needs its 1950s modifications. What always surprises me is the number of really good layouts where you know there is a high level of research and modelling but there it is in the middle of the train the Bachmann LMS van. You know it is the Bachmann van because it is 4mm lower than the GWR next to it where it should be a mm higher. Why do good modellers not see it is wrong very wrong.

 

I have  mighty dislike or that Bachmann pseudo LMS van. Somebody pointed out that the best available RTR LMS van is an LNER type that the latter company built in some numbers for the LMS. We had one on LSGC until it had a mysterious axle failure. I've spotted one on LB lurking by the goodshed on a couple of occasions. I think the ratio kit is a great little model with plenty of conversion possibilities.

[polybear]

Close, though I'd never describe Jesse as a half-wit.

 

 

 

Hi Jesse,

I'm not suggesting for a moment that you're a half-wit (just messin').

Besides, it's not you're fault if Baseball Caps (if that's what they're still known as) don't come with instructions...... :jester:

(just kiddin', just kiddin'.....)

 

Masterclass Models is the name that Chris Higgs of this parish operates as. He's done a whole host of coaching stock kits in 2mm scale and a smaller amount of stuff in other scales including a BR CCT which has been reviewed in MRJ in the past. His 2mm stuff goes together very nicely.

 

Simon

 

The 4mm CCT kit was reviewed by Tim Shackleton (IIRC), who described it (IIRC) as "the best kit I've ever built".  High praise indeed.  Sadly the kit is discontinued.

 

Correction:  The Kit was reviewed in MRJ No. 183, by both John Sutton (3mm kit) and Tim Shackleton (4mm kit).  It was John Sutton who "...hails it as the best etched brass kit he has ever seen"; Tim described it as "....a superb set of components that will be a pleasure to assemble into a model infinitely better than anything else on the market...."

Edited December 13, 2018 by polybear

[LNERandBR]

Which team I might be in would probably be much further on in the alphabet. Today, a mate an I operated part of LB's sequence. I made a few mistakes (fatigue after the weekend?) and he made a couple. We were just saying to ourselves that at least any 'problems' weren't the fault of the layout, when a wagon derailed - on straight track, right in front of us. This hobby always has a habit of, just when you least expect it, biting you in the ar$e! 

 

It's amazing how a train can circulate a layout many, many times then, despite nothing having changed, one wagon or coach in the formation decides to spit it's dummy and fall off!

[Clem]

Thanks Clem,

 

that's very useful. Typically, I was looking through my own photographs tonight, one of V2 60831 at the head of a twin at Nottingham Victoria. I had failed to notice the second twin alongside the first in the middle road, it confirms the arrangement in your shot. I'm awaiting a GA drawing and also the Isinglass drawing, the latter seems to be tacking an age to arrive. Incidentally, the etch has Master class models and C.C. Higgs 2012 etched on it, I don't know if you or anybody else as ever heard of the names. The kit fits together perfectly, one of the best I have ever assembled.

 

Hi Andrew, Thanks for the heads up on the Masterclass models D210. Thanks also to Jonathan, Polybear  and Simon for further info on Chris Higgs. I'd certainly be most interested in getting an etch or two of the D210s  if  they're still available. At the moment, I have Bill Bedford's etched sides to do for my next D210 when time allows but as they're sides only,  I'll have to cobble together the rest - i.e under frames, ends, roof etc to complete them. A whole kit sounds appealing.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Clem

[Woodcock29]

Hello Tony

 

Parkside do some wonderful wagon kits. There range of LNER and BR vans is great. Pity they do not do a LMS van. Ratio do one and it is an OK model but not the same league as Parkside.

Cambrian do several nice LMS and Midland Railway van kits. I have several, including a nice meat van.

Andrew

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

Parkside do some wonderful wagon kits. There range of LNER and BR vans is great. Pity they do not do a LMS van. Ratio do one and it is an OK model but not the same league as Parkside. Plus for a BR period "modern Image" modeller it lacks the modifications  carried out in the 1950s. Dapol do the old Airfix LMS designed but BR built van, thankfully no longer on its fictitious underframe, but that too needs its 1950s modifications. What always surprises me is the number of really good layouts where you know there is a high level of research and modelling but there it is in the middle of the train the Bachmann LMS van. You know it is the Bachmann van because it is 4mm lower than the GWR next to it where it should be a mm higher. Why do good modellers not see it is wrong very wrong.

 

Is this the van which you think 'good modellers' cannot see is wrong, very wrong, Clive? 

 

If so, I'll chuck it out right away!

 

Would anyone care to comment on any of the goods vehicles seen in the following pictures? Since almost none of these were made by me (I only have about 15 wagons of my build out of 250 on LB), then I can pass the blame on to others if they're wrong. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any locos are my build/modification, though.........................

[jwealleans]

Mick Moore did a couple of very useful articles in MRJ (205 and then 238/9) about crosskitting a number of (IIRC) mainly Cambrian products to produce different diagrams of LMS van. There are ABS kits if you can find them, but they do seem to be the major black hole in mid-20th century freight stock.

 

As I recall, Cambrian do a steel sided van, which is an earlier kit and tricky to put together, or the very late Midland/early LMS diangrams which go together really well but aren't representative of the bulk of what was built.

 

Their meat and fish vans are also really nice models but again, I think, slightly niche in the grand scheme of things.

Edited December 10, 2018 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

Hi Andrew, Thanks for the heads up on the Masterclass models D210. Thanks also to Jonathan, Polybear  and Simon for further info on Chris Higgs. I'd certainly be most interested in getting an etch or two of the D210s  if  they're still available. At the moment, I have Bill Bedford's etched sides to do for my next D210 when time allows but as they're sides only,  I'll have to cobble together the rest - i.e under frames, ends, roof etc to complete them. A whole kit sounds appealing.

 

Evening Clem,

 

it's just the Brass etches, you still require a roof and fittings, bogies, buffers and underframe gubbins. The kit is designed with MJT fittings in mind. The diag 214 can also be built from the same kit but would require a different set of sides for the composite, I believe these were original available. I shall try and take a pic when I get some decent light.

 

Edited to add

 

The queen posts, cross bracing and diagonals are included as part of the etch, as are the V hangers for the vac cylinders. The end gubbins is supplied but you will require to make or purchase jumper cables.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Headstock

[Barry Ten]

Hello Tony

 

Parkside do some wonderful wagon kits. There range of LNER and BR vans is great. Pity they do not do a LMS van.

 

 

Can their LMS fish van be used in general service? I built one for my own fish train once to add a bit of variety among the LNER and BR designs but I admit I know nothing about the prototype, nor how good the model is.

 

Al

[Headstock]

V2 60943 on fitted freight.jpg

 

Is this the van which you think 'good modellers' cannot see is wrong, very wrong, Clive? 

 

If so, I'll chuck it out right away!

 

Would anyone care to comment on any of the goods vehicles seen in the following pictures? Since almost none of these were made by me (I only have about 15 wagons of my build out of 250 on LB), then I can pass the blame on to others if they're wrong. 

 

9F on Up freight.jpg

 

DJH 9F 92042 02.jpg

 

DJH 9F 92042 03.jpg

 

freights.jpg

 

O4 8.jpg

 

overall view 20.jpg

 

Overall view 42 goods yard.jpg

 

second SEF J6 weathered 03.jpg

 

Any locos are my build/modification, though.........................

 

Being a sort of LMS van, you should really scrap and build.

[Northmoor]

Would anyone care to comment on any of the goods vehicles seen in the following pictures? Since almost none of these were made by me (I only have about 15 wagons of my build out of 250 on LB), then I can pass the blame on to others if they're wrong. 

Thank you for that series of photos, Tony; confirming my belief that nothing looks more impressive in model form than a long, mixed freight.

 

Rob

[Clive Mortimore]

V2 60943 on fitted freight.jpg

 

Is this the van which you think 'good modellers' cannot see is wrong, very wrong, Clive? 

 

If so, I'll chuck it out right away!

 

Would anyone care to comment on any of the goods vehicles seen in the following pictures? Since almost none of these were made by me (I only have about 15 wagons of my build out of 250 on LB), then I can pass the blame on to others if they're wrong. 

 

9F on Up freight.jpg

 

DJH 9F 92042 02.jpg

 

DJH 9F 92042 03.jpg

 

freights.jpg

 

O4 8.jpg

 

overall view 20.jpg

 

Overall view 42 goods yard.jpg

 

second SEF J6 weathered 03.jpg

 

Any locos are my build/modification, though.........................

Hello Tony

 

From the photo it looks like it. Next time I am allowed to visit I will be able to confirm if it is.