Wright writes.....

[jamie92208]

I know this is all hypothetical, .... but I suppose I was assuming that if one were to develop ones own etches to allow building of a specific prototype (loco/coach/wagon etc) ... then as a matter of course one would also source appropriate castings/3d printings etc  to allow the complete build to happen. This being the case, so long as the work was up to scratch an established kit supplier might then be happy to adopt the whole package bringing it in house (adding what they thought might be appropriate).

 

On one level it would seem sad to waste such a resource if there was demand and it could be made more widely available.

 

One problem, that I mentioned with the NBR coaches, is that if you intend the etches to become part of a kit at some point in the future, then you have to work that into the design and layout of the etch.  EG will it fold up to go into a box.  It probably isn't such a big problem with 4mm parts but can become a problem in larger scales. It's also tricky of you want o put some small items into the pare spaces on the etch.  I had all sorts of stuff on the edges of mine, including 4mm GN signal box parts for a club project.

 

Jamie

[Michael Edge]

that is encouraging .... would be interesting to know if this is peculiar to New Zealand, or simply coincidence. I would presume that part of the reason is your considerable experience/expertise and thus efficiency of output?

 

I'll do it for anyone, it's just work, the Kiwis are regular customers though. I'd like to think that my experience and acquired knowledge helps me to do this job efficiently. We have had other proposals, mostly from Europe but generally linked to guaranteed numbers of kit sales. This worked extremely well with Taurus for Spain and Sentinels for Portugal but not so well with Jackshafts for Italy, the latter has sold just two to Italy so far despite them having specifically requested it but the Spanish version of Taurus turned into our second best selling kit.

[gr.king]

i've only in the last year or so been designing my own etches, essentially these are for items of rolling stock that I want for myself but I have supplied a few others who have expressed an interest.

 

The latest are some early GN 4 wheelers, one of which I put on my thread  day or so ago.

 

382.JPG

Excellent. I cannot recall ever having seen any other models of GN carriage stock of the very old arc-roof type.

[AndyID]

I had to teach myself CAD when the US Patent Office rejected my initial patent application because of the quality of my drawings. Ouch!

[CF MRC]

Excellent. I cannot recall ever having seen any other models of GN carriage stock of the very old arc-roof type.

I think we have some 7mm models in the MRC collection made by Guy Hemingway a very long time ago.

 

Tim

[Tony Wright]

Having not long returned from a quite splendid day demonstrating, loco-doctoring and presenting at the Peterborough Show, may I thank all those with whom I spoke?

 

If nothing else, I made folk laugh at my 'lecture' on building plastic rolling stock kits.

 

Mo and I have already raised over £30.00 for CRUK. It would have been more had I been able to fix two Bachmann split-chassis locos - yes, the axles had split, and were both beyond hope. A newish Hornby loco was also presented, but the gear 'tower' must have had a failure, because I could just push the thing along by hand. My grateful thanks to all who donated so generously. 

 

Oddly enough, or, perhaps not that odd, was that an old Hornby loco was brought which didn't run very well. On investigation, the picking-up wheels were dirty and it was dry of oil. Less than five minutes' fiddling/cleaning/oiling and it was off again - good as new; for another 40 years! 

 

The show seemed to be a great success. However (there's always an 'however'), comments were made to me that too many of the layouts on show were not running as well as expected, with derailments and finger-poking far too evident. As far as I could make out from the comments (I had no time to look at layouts), the problems were irrespective of scale/gauge or DCC/analogue. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Manufacturers now place the decoder sockets in the tenders, where available, for a number of reasons. Because most models are supplied “DCC Ready”, they are normally sold for DC use but with a pre-wired socket provided for a chip to be plugged in, should the user desire. The socket, plug and chip all take up space, and with the advent of sound chips... well, speakers just add to the problem (generally, the bigger the speaker, the better the sound, so users like a decent space for them, which the tender offers). Locating the chip in the tender also means that weights can still be used in the locomotive body, and not least from the manufacturers perspective it means that Joe public only needs to fiddle about with the tender innards where they can do less damage than inside the boiler!

 

For a simple install, this methodology generally works well. I can understand how the additional wires between tender and locomotive are undesirable (unnecessary, even) for some users, particularly with Analogue control, but it’s a compromise that works for most people.

 

Difficulties start for DCC users when they wish to use some of the additional functionality of the chip, for example working lights, or smokebox flicker effects. These all require additional wires from the chip to the locomotive body, but for some reason the manufacturers only provide four wires, two for the pickups, and two for motor control. With a more advanced install then, either more wires are needed from the tender to the loco (as has been done by Rapido with the Stirling Single) OR the chip needs to be relocated in the locomotive. In order to fit everything into the locomotive, it is best to simply ‘hardwire’ the chip and dispense with a bulky plug and socket arrangement.

 

My optimum install therefore has a sound chip in the locomotive body, wired to lamps and smokebox glow (orange LED) and a small sugar-cube speaker in the smokebox to provide cylinder hiss noises from the right end of the loco. The chip is directly wired into the motor and pick-ups of course. The four available wires to the tender are used to link the chip to tender pick-ups and a larger speaker for the more bass sounds which are less directionally critical.

 

One development I think we will see, now that smaller 21~ and 18~pin chips are available that don’t need connecting wires from the chip to a plug, will mean that you will be able to clip in a chip without having to dismantle anything... just lift up the coalload, or open the smokebox door, and pop in a chip. Job done!

 

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

I wonder how many modellers actually go for synthetic sound in locos? I certainly don't, but then I will never use DCC. 

 

Having now made three 'films' of Little Bytham's running, one thing I am delighted about is the 'natural' noises of the trains, picked up by the camera as they go past. Thankfully, this is not the whirr-whirr of noisy locos (I don't tolerate that) but the entirely-natural mechanical noises of a loco working hard and the clatter of metal wheels over metal track. 

 

Some little time ago, I listened to some sound recordings of steam locos at speed on the ECML. One was made on the footplate of MALLARD by P. Ransome-Wallis, with the train going very fast through Bytham. There was just a continuous roar and clatter. Rather like, I'm pleased to say, some of the model sounds (with the volume turned-up) picked up by the camcorder.

 

Steam loco sounds coming from tenders? I don't think much of that!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tony Wright

[robertcwp]

A newish Hornby loco was also presented, but the gear 'tower' must have had a failure, because I could just push the thing along by hand.  

Unfortunately, this is a common issue with Hornby locos, often the result of Mazak rot causing the chassis block to expand and the worm to disengage. Sometimes the block disintegrates. Another common issue is split gear wheels, with Bulleid pacifics being amongst the worst offenders. Getting spares is next to impossible too.

 

I have seen a list of models known to suffer Mazak rot elsewhere on this site. This includes, amongst many others, the first batch of rebuilt Patriots and Royal Scots. Other makes are not immune.

[Clive Mortimore]

Unfortunately, this is a common issue with Hornby locos, often the result of Mazak rot causing the chassis block to expand and the worm to disengage. Sometimes the block disintegrates. Another common issue is split gear wheels, with Bulleid pacifics being amongst the worst offenders. Getting spares is next to impossible too.

 

I have seen a list of models known to suffer Mazak rot elsewhere on this site. This includes, amongst many others, the first batch of rebuilt Patriots and Royal Scots. Other makes are not immune.

Hi Robert

 

I the past few weeks I have had a Mazak pony truck on an L1 disintegrate. Hornby had no spares, and the only one that Peter's spares had was one with a green wheel...I gotta get me paints out.

 

Last night I had a gear wheel split on a Stanier class 4 tank. The motor was whirring but the wheels were not going round....and I am not talking about me. None of the normal spare suppliers have any in stock. I am waiting for Hornby's reply but all the post on various forums indicate they never have a X9181 gear wheel. I did do a bodge with super glue and it seems to be working ( how long for) but has a slight knocking sound. I can live with a knocking sound more than having a £100 loco unable to work.

 

I also have a Fowler class 4 tank with the old x04 motor chassis. It ran like a pig. I gave it a clean and oil, it is one of the best steam locos I have performance wise.....progress?

 

I have Bachmann locos that think they are there for show and cannot pull a thing and Hornby loco that fall apart without my help. My old Lima diesels just keep rolling an' a rolling.

[Chamby]

Thanks Phil,

 

I wonder how many modellers actually go for synthetic sound in locos? I certainly don't, but then I will never use DCC. 

 

Having now made three 'films' of Little Bytham's running, one thing I am delighted about is the 'natural' noises of the trains, picked up by the camera as they go past. Thankfully, this is not the whirr-whirr of noisy locos (I don't tolerate that) but the entirely-natural mechanical noises of a loco working hard and the clatter of metal wheels over metal track. 

 

Some little time ago, I listened to some sound recordings of steam locos at speed on the ECML. One was made on the footplate of MALLARD by P. Ransome-Wallis, with the train going very fast through Bytham. There was just a continuous roar and clatter. Rather like, I'm pleased to say, some of the model sounds (with the volume turned-up) picked up by the camcorder.

 

Steam loco sounds coming from tenders? I don't think much of that!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

There’s a common view among DCC sound users that it Better suits diesel and electric locomotives, partly because the sounds are less complex, but also because speakers are usually easier to install in the body... the right location.

 

With steam, both the sounds and the install is more complex. Tender speaker installs are fine for an exhibition environment, or if you are at a normal operating distance from the loco on a medium or large layout. It starts to sound wrong closer up, which is when a two speaker install works better. It is the higher frequency sounds that are more directionally sensitive, which is why a home cinema installation uses ‘tweeters’ for the surround sound and a single ‘sub-woofer’ for the deeper, low frequency tones. A small, high frequency speaker near the cylinders and a larger, lower frequency speaker in the tender deceives the ears in a similar way.

 

Yes, many of the earlier steam sound programmes do sound synthetic to the attuned ear. Some of the more recent ones however are becoming very good indeed, when paired with a good speaker install. When done well, DCC sound can be enthralling. But it’s just like any other aspect of the hobby... there are a lot of turkeys out there!

[polybear]

Having not long returned from a quite splendid day demonstrating, loco-doctoring and presenting at the Peterborough Show, may I thank all those with whom I spoke?

 

If nothing else, I made folk laugh at my 'lecture' on building plastic rolling stock kits.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I missed Tony's Lecture [the OH was complaining about being freezing cold so I went earlier than I'd planned ].

However, I was really lucky to have been one of the only two visitors who attended Geoff Haynes' 10-30am Loco Construction Workshop (though it was actually Wagon construction).  Even better, the next Workshop scheduled for 11-30am was cancelled, so Geoff kept going :) .  As a result, I and one other had hand-on brass and whitemetal soldering tuition from Geoff Haynes - result!

For anyone visiting the show tomorrow, the Workshop is repeated (10-30 am behind the BRM stand) and Geoff even brings along numerous soldering irons to give as many as possible a go.  I certainly learned a lot - many thanks Geoff, if you should happen to read this.

 

Brian

[CF MRC]

One thing I did on my original N gauge layout was to file rail joints at the distance between the bogies of the most common carriage wheelbase. It meant that the wheels hit the joints simultaneously and so the ‘clickety - click’ sound was greatly amplified. I think the idea originally came from John Allison.

 

Wouldn’t probably be worth it on CF as most exhibition halls are noisy with the sound of diesels thrumming away, endlessly.

 

Tim

[micklner]

Hi Robert

 

I the past few weeks I have had a Mazak pony truck on an L1 disintegrate. Hornby had no spares, and the only one that Peter's spares had was one with a green wheel...I gotta get me paints out.

 

 

 

I presume this is a Thompson L1 ?

 

Current Hornby Bogie etc wheels are a push fit , simply swop the wheels over.

Edited December 9, 2018 by micklner

[Woodcock29]

On the subject of Hornby loco failures, over here in Adelaide I was able to purchase 4 packs of gear sets (gives you 4 small gears and 8 large gears from memory) which I use to repair locos of BRMA members here in Adelaide. We're lucky we have the Australian Hornby wholesaler here in Adelaide so I checked first to see if they were in stock and then went around the corner to order at the local model shop. Mind you they took about 3 weeks to get around the corner! Still that didn't matter.

 

I reckon I've fixed two Brits (one was mine), a Coronation, a Stanier 2-6-4T, an A4 and a Bulleid pacific.  I've also got a mate who has 3 Royal Scots suffering from Mazac Rot he was going to contact Hornby. One member sold me his Royal Scot suffering from Mazac Rot for $20 - worth it for the motor, gears and other parts as spares. I've also got one of probably the first batch of 31s which suffered from Mazac Rot - both ends of the chassis had expanded and then broke off. I contacted Simon Kohler at the time who put me onto the right people at Hornby and instead of sending the whole thing to the UK I said just send me the chassis block I'll replace all the parts on it! Stupid idea really when you look at how complicated the wiring etc is. Never mind I might get around to it one day after all its only a diesel and would be lucky to get an annual outing on my layout.

 

Andrew 

[Clive Mortimore]

I presume this is a Thompson L1 ?

 

Current Hornby Bogie etc wheels are a push fit , simply swop the wheels over.

I tried to get the wheels off what remained of the pony truck and it fell into 3 parts. I am not risking the new pony truck.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Mallard60022]

Is there an opening for someone to produce these gears from 3D printing? If they are almost impossible to get it could be worth it?

Phil

[Chamby]

I tried to get the wheels off what remained of the pony truck and it fell into 3 parts. I am not risking the new pony truck.

 

Is that the bizarre front pony truck that has two pivots and 'crabs' round corners?  Sounds like a good opportunity to re-engineer it, Clive!

[Clive Mortimore]

Is that the bizarre front pony truck that has two pivots and 'crabs' round corners?  Sounds like a good opportunity to re-engineer it, Clive!

Do you have one I could copy?

[APOLLO]

Nylon gears seem to be the new "Mazac".

 

ALL my Weaver American O gauge diesels have had their main nylon drive gear wheel replaced - all with the same problem, a split caused by the make up of the nylon used not being suitable for force fit, and after ageing it cracks. This problem was well researched in the USA and new nylon gears with a different composition are available (P&D Models Fraser Michigan). I have a stock of these, though I've never had to replace a P&D one. The force fit of the new gear to motor shaft is quite a job - I use a small hand held vice.

 

https://www.pdhobbyshop.com/Store/index.php?cPath=23_26_37_104

 

It's not on if you can't get a gear for a £100+ recent model IF the problem is the wrong material composition.

 

Brit15

Edited December 9, 2018 by APOLLO

[31A]

Do you have one I could copy?

 

I did this:

 

 

Although I also did this, which was easier and almost as good:

 

 

[Chamby]

Do you have one I could copy?

 

You got me there Clive, it's on my 'round tuit' list.   Steve's solution above looks good.

 

I don't like what Hornby have done with the L1 and P2 pony trucks.  Not only does it look silly, but they are prone to shorting out PECO unifrog points by not running true.  But I have found that in the meantime, if you run the locomotive bunker first, the pony truck crabs much less and the problems disappear.  Something to do with the pivot point changing over when the pony is pulled rather than pushed round a curve.

 

Phil.

[mdh1950]

Unfortunately I missed Tony's Lecture [the OH was complaining about being freezing cold so I went earlier than I'd planned ].

However, I was really lucky to have been one of the only two visitors who attended Geoff Haynes' 10-30am Loco Construction Workshop (though it was actually Wagon construction). Even better, the next Workshop scheduled for 11-30am was cancelled, so Geoff kept going :) . As a result, I and one other had hand-on brass and whitemetal soldering tuition from Geoff Haynes - result!

For anyone visiting the show tomorrow, the Workshop is repeated (10-30 am behind the BRM stand) and Geoff even brings along numerous soldering irons to give as many as possible a go. I certainly learned a lot - many thanks Geoff, if you should happen to read this.

 

Brian

Brian, you missed a treat. Tony’s lecture included useful tips for making plastic kits as well as views on caravans, mobile homes, tension lock couplings and chemical loos!

 

I always enjoy the Peterborough Show but this year was struck by the number of fine layouts which suffered operational issues. The hand of God, derailments, exaggerated rates of acceleration and deceleration and long periods of inactivity being the main problems. Overall my favorites (not in any particular order) were Launceston (009), Trewithick (EM) and Faringdon (P4).

 

On the question of sound I tend to agree that, at the moment at least, diesel sound is much better than steam. I also agree that for layouts like LB sound would add very little as the unaided sound of movement at speed is quite authentic. However, on small branch line termini I think that the sound of simmering steam locomotives adds a certain atmosphere.

 

Michael

Edited December 9, 2018 by mdh1950

[polybear]

Brian, you missed a treat. Tony’s lecture included useful tips for making plastic kits as well as views on caravans, mobile homes, tension lock couplings and chemical loos!

 

Go on, why don't you....kick a Cub when he's down........ :cry:

Edited December 9, 2018 by polybear

[Tony Teague]

Another common issue is split gear wheels, with Bulleid pacifics being amongst the worst offenders. Getting spares is next to impossible too.

 

 

I have recently had this problem and bought replacements from Peter's Spares: https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x8849-idler-gear-set-for-china-built-locos.ir

They currently show as having 67 in stock (no connection).

 

Tony

[robertcwp]

I have recently had this problem and bought replacements from Peter's Spares: https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x8849-idler-gear-set-for-china-built-locos.ir

They currently show as having 67 in stock (no connection).

 

Tony

Thanks, they had been completely out of stock when I looked a while back, when the gears in my rebuilt WC split. Now ordered some.