Wright writes.....

[bbishop]

I have a copy of my Grandparents' 1911 census entry.  My Grandfather is shown as a Railway Telegraphist [at Bournemouth Central], living with my Grandmother and my Aunt then less than a year old.  But also on the entry was an Edward Bishop, whose occupation was shown as Stoker.  There aren't any Bishops on the Victory Arch at Waterloo, so I'm planning to look for him in the 1921 census.

[grahame]

22 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

That's the same dick tionary that calls a station a Train Station is it.....? 

 

Nope, my Oxford Dictionary of English is quite specific about 'station' - "noun a place where passenger trains stop on a railway line, typically with platforms and buildings: a railway station". No mention of 'train station' (although trainspotter is listed). But I don't have a problem with 'train station' as, after all, it is a place where trains become stationary to allow passengers to get on and off. 

 

G

[Mallard60022]

Excellent.

P

[Chamby]

25 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

In case anyone is disturbed by my light hearted posts, then complain to the management. However, I would argue that the more obscure and often bizarre things I read on RMW give as much pleasure to some, as does the serious discussion. 

So to conclude my little intervention for this week, BR Drivers known as Engineers? Nope! BR Firemen known as Stokers? Nope! OED the respected tome? Nope!

Train Station...………….like pah and like double pah, to be honest, at this point in time, going forward!

Good morning.

V. Meldrew. 

 

The Princess Coronation’s however, were fitted mechanical stokers, not a mechanical fireman... so somebody back in the day made a differentiation between the function fulfilled by each?

[Bucoops]

40 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

No longer? Austerity? I do not mean the type of locomotive Perhaps the preservation bods have a special collection of cherished shovels hanging in the Cab (better check that it is called a Cab) I suppose?

Actually, just before I go, I have read of Firemen (yes, those people of muscle, grit and often Beret or knotted handkerchief on noggin) that lost their shovel in the box and also in other 'interesting ways'. Anecdotes welcome on a dull and grey Friday morning.

P

 

That past tense was regarding me - It's been about 20 years since I've had the free time to volunteer  I suspect the shovel will outlive me!

[Bob Reid]

Funnily enough, My Grandfather's occupation at least during his time with the LMS in the early 1920's is given as "Engine Stoker", his whole working life spent on the footplate until he progressed to driving.  He certainly wasn't fighting fires and I do wonder at what point "Fireman" became the more common description.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Bob Reid

[grahame]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

In case anyone is disturbed by my light hearted posts, then complain to the management. However, I would argue that the more obscure and often bizarre things I read on RMW give as much pleasure to some, as does the serious discussion. 

So to conclude my little intervention for this week, BR Drivers known as Engineers? Nope! BR Firemen known as Stokers? 

 

I guess we all have out own grumpy annoyances over what we consider misnomers. Mine is people calling gas holders 'gas-o-meters'. 

 

Gas-o-meter’ is an inaccurate non-technical colloquial term as they don’t actually meter the gas. In over 30 years of experience employed in the gas industry I never heard them called gas-o-meters at work – they were always called gas holders. The guys who worked on them, who I played football with, were called gas holder maintenance engineers and, where the holders were located, the sites were known as gas holder stations – a famous one being just behind the Oval where we used to borrow the key to it to park cars in when going to watch cricket at the oval. Gas meters were those things you had in your house to measure, or meter, the amount of gas you used.

 

A ‘gazometre’ devise was invented by a French man to pneumatically weigh gas and is possibly the origin of the misnomer ‘gas-o-meter’ for gas holders. The gazometre was a short-lived instrument and was later adapted in the UK to hold and store coal (’towns’) gas produced at gas works ready to distribute for, initially lighting, and later heating and refrigeration. Consequently, the ‘gas-o-meter’ term was possibly coined from the ‘gazometer’ name by the British inventor of gas lighting despite objections from his peers. They understood that the new holders did not weigh, meter or measure gas.
 

A gas holder is a large, usually cylindrical, above ground container for storing gas at ambient temperature and near atmospheric pressure. Storing gas in this manner provides a buffer to meet peaks and troughs in usage and removes the need to continually produce gas. In addition to the essential storage facility, the weight of the container provides district ‘local mains’ distribution pressure, and also back pressure for production, meaning every local gas works required gas holders.

 

There are three basic types of gas holder to be seen in the UK. Firstly, ones with an external lattice framework of columns and cross members that the allow and guide the holder tank to rise and fall within the structure. Secondly, is the spiral type where the tank rises without a supporting framework by slowly turning through angled spiral guide rails attached to the tank sides. The third and least common is the rigid type where the volume of gas inside is controlled by an internal piston type diaphragm and there is no obvious external movement or indication of the gas within it.

 

The first lattice structure gas holder was built in 1798. The telescopic type was invented in 1824 where additional container sections (‘lifts’) could expand upward within a framework of columns and guides. The spiral type was invented in 1890 where the ‘lifts’ were guided by spiral rails and did away with the need for a supporting frame. The seals between the ‘lifts’ were water although modern types can be waterless with oil, grease or dry membrane seals.

 

Even with the nationwide conversion of homes and factories to burn natural gas (from the need for storage holders due to the gas effectively being held under high pressure in the new national pipe distribution network, they continued to be used, mainly for balancing local demand. However, in recent years many have been decommissioned and demolished, and their removal is set to continue.

Gas holders are big structures, even the small ones. The large ‘number 13’ holder, one of three still standing (although all now decommissioned), at the Old Kent Road site where I started my career was, when built in 1879-81, the largest in the world and is now grade II listed. As a scale N gauge model it would be 13 inches tall and 1.5ft wide although of course it was a big one and others were smaller, although generally not the tiny efforts from RTP producers such as Hornby Lyddle End.

 

Gas holders are iconic structures, somewhat redolent of the Victorian industrial age, and became a common sight throughout the country, particularly in urban areas. Due to the recent escalation of their demolition many have been listed to save them from destruction with some being converted in to leisure park features and even shops and housing. There used to be a ‘rule’ for the colour of gas holders to help ‘disguise’ them although it was never rigidly adhered to and often they were stained and rusty. But if you want to paint your model and follow the guide code then use grey for those in urban locations, green for those in the countryside and blue for ones located on the coast, although these days they are often brightly painted in a wide range of colours.

 

 

Above: The Battersea rigid gas holder (number 7) was an iconic landmark and dominates the skyline in this photograph taken on 8th December 2012. It was built 1930-2, stood 295ft tall and could hold 6.5m cubic feet of gas. However, it was due for demolition and finally succumbed at the end of 2017.

 

 

Above: One of the two gas holders at the Turners Way Gas Works and Depot, near Croydon, seen behind Waddon Marsh tram stop.

 

 

Above: Two of the remaining gas holders at the Old Kent Road site photographed in January 2018. The large number 13 holder (right) stands 160ft tall with a diameter of over 210ft and could hold 5.5m cubic feet of gas. It has 22 wrought iron standards (columns) supporting the frame-work and is an example of a frame guided type.

 

 

Above : An empty spiral type holder with the stages (‘lifts’) neatly nested at ground level. When empty spiral types can’t easily be seen so do not impact on the skyline, although when full and raised are typically impressive and imposing structures. Note the stairways that allow access to the sections that can rise above them. Behind the spiral holder is an empty column type. Apologies for the poor quality of this photo which was taken from a passing train.

 

 

Above : Details of lattice built columns and horizontal bracing with the jumble of large pipes usually found in gas holder stations.

 

 

Above : A view of the gas holders behind the Oval cricket ground. There is a spiral type at the holder station but it can’t be seen in this view. This photo is dated April 2005, is in the public domain and courtesy of Jguk at English Wikipedia.

 

Hope this info is of use in modelling gas holders.

 

G

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by grahame

[Bucoops]

The two gas holders near me were recently demolished, sad times, and now we will see even more cupboard sized flats with no supporting infrastructure...

 

There is the modern equivalent of course - for example the huge concrete Liquified Natural Gas holders at the Isle of Grain.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

The Princess Coronation’s however, were fitted mechanical stokers, not a mechanical fireman... so somebody back in the day made a differentiation between the function fulfilled by each?

When were the Princess Coronations fitted with 'mechanical stokers'? They had a coal pusher in the tender (a steam-driven piston/pusher attached to the rear coal division plate which the fireman operated to move coal from the rear of the bunker forward after a long run), but it certainly wasn't a mechanical stoker. My understanding of a mechanical stoker is it's a sort of massive corkscrew-device, fitted between the loco and the tender which moved coal from the bunker into the firebox. A few 9Fs were fitted with one, but they were not that successful. 

[Long John Silver]

Referring to Al (Barry Ten’s) lovely City 4-4-0 and Tony’s comments about durability and cost/value, there should hopefully be a photo of my oldest loco that still runs with the original mechanism. It’s a Bulldog 4-4-0, built in 1990, it is not a great model, GWR experts could find much that is wrong with it. It is built from a K’s body and a West Coast Kit Centre chassis. No brake gear, DS10 motor, Romford Wheels. If I was building it now, I would have replaced the smokebox door and chimney. On the positive side it runs well, will pull 4 kit-built coaches and needs little maintenance beyond the occasional wheel clean. It is also my own work warts and all.

I think it was the sixth loco kit I built and was the most expensive loco I had at the time, when all costs were taken into account. It was a gamble; I didn’t want to waste money on something that was beyond my limited skills, but my wife, who is very supportive of my hobbies, encouraged me to give it a try. Thankfully it worked out well.

I had to have a 4-4-0, I just like them, but if you model the dark green railway company in South Wales post war, you have a very limited choice. Calcutta was the last Bulldog at Pontypool Road, and so is OK for my area, although I wonder how much it would have been used . Those of you who model the Southern and LNER of course, have a wonderful choice of pre-group types still running at that time.

Good value – yes, but it was a significant outlay at the time. However, it has outlasted all the r-t-r locos I had at the time.  Which worked out better value in the long run?

By comparison the oldest r-t-r loco I have with the original mechanism, which still runs regularly is a Bachmann Collett Goods at 20 years old and is beginning to show signs of age. It is however a much more detailed and accurate model.

Modern r-t-r runs better, as to model longevity, the older I get the less I worry about it. Anything I buy or build now that lasts 28 years will probably outlive me.

Jon

[Tony Wright]

43 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

I guess we all have out own grumpy annoyances over what we consider misnomers. Mine is people calling gas holders 'gas-o-meters'. 

 

Gas-o-meter’ is an inaccurate non-technical colloquial term as they don’t actually meter the gas. In over 30 years of experience employed in the gas industry I never heard them called gas-o-meters at work – they were always called gas holders. The guys who worked on them, who I played football with, were called gas holder maintenance engineers and, where the holders were located, the sites were known as gas holder stations – a famous one being just behind the Oval where we used to borrow the key to it to park cars in when going to watch cricket at the oval. Gas meters were those things you had in your house to measure, or meter, the amount of gas you used.

 

A ‘gazometre’ devise was invented by a French man to pneumatically weigh gas and is possibly the origin of the misnomer ‘gas-o-meter’ for gas holders. The gazometre was a short-lived instrument and was later adapted in the UK to hold and store coal (’towns’) gas produced at gas works ready to distribute for, initially lighting, and later heating and refrigeration. Consequently, the ‘gas-o-meter’ term was possibly coined from the ‘gazometer’ name by the British inventor of gas lighting despite objections from his peers. They understood that the new holders did not weigh, meter or measure gas.
 

A gas holder is a large, usually cylindrical, above ground container for storing gas at ambient temperature and near atmospheric pressure. Storing gas in this manner provides a buffer to meet peaks and troughs in usage and removes the need to continually produce gas. In addition to the essential storage facility, the weight of the container provides district ‘local mains’ distribution pressure, and also back pressure for production, meaning every local gas works required gas holders.

 

There are three basic types of gas holder to be seen in the UK. Firstly, ones with an external lattice framework of columns and cross members that the allow and guide the holder tank to rise and fall within the structure. Secondly, is the spiral type where the tank rises without a supporting framework by slowly turning through angled spiral guide rails attached to the tank sides. The third and least common is the rigid type where the volume of gas inside is controlled by an internal piston type diaphragm and there is no obvious external movement or indication of the gas within it.

 

The first lattice structure gas holder was built in 1798. The telescopic type was invented in 1824 where additional container sections (‘lifts’) could expand upward within a framework of columns and guides. The spiral type was invented in 1890 where the ‘lifts’ were guided by spiral rails and did away with the need for a supporting frame. The seals between the ‘lifts’ were water although modern types can be waterless with oil, grease or dry membrane seals.

 

Even with the nationwide conversion of homes and factories to burn natural gas (from the need for storage holders due to the gas effectively being held under high pressure in the new national pipe distribution network, they continued to be used, mainly for balancing local demand. However, in recent years many have been decommissioned and demolished, and their removal is set to continue.

Gas holders are big structures, even the small ones. The large ‘number 13’ holder, one of three still standing (although all now decommissioned), at the Old Kent Road site where I started my career was, when built in 1879-81, the largest in the world and is now grade II listed. As a scale N gauge model it would be 13 inches tall and 1.5ft wide although of course it was a big one and others were smaller, although generally not the tiny efforts from RTP producers such as Hornby Lyddle End.

 

Gas holders are iconic structures, somewhat redolent of the Victorian industrial age, and became a common sight throughout the country, particularly in urban areas. Due to the recent escalation of their demolition many have been listed to save them from destruction with some being converted in to leisure park features and even shops and housing. There used to be a ‘rule’ for the colour of gas holders to help ‘disguise’ them although it was never rigidly adhered to and often they were stained and rusty. But if you want to paint your model and follow the guide code then use grey for those in urban locations, green for those in the countryside and blue for ones located on the coast, although these days they are often brightly painted in a wide range of colours.

 

 

Above: The Battersea rigid gas holder (number 7) was an iconic landmark and dominates the skyline in this photograph taken on 8th December 2012. It was built 1930-2, stood 295ft tall and could hold 6.5m cubic feet of gas. However, it was due for demolition and finally succumbed at the end of 2017.

 

 

Above: One of the two gas holders at the Turners Way Gas Works and Depot, near Croydon, seen behind Waddon Marsh tram stop.

 

 

Above: Two of the remaining gas holders at the Old Kent Road site photographed in January 2018. The large number 13 holder (right) stands 160ft tall with a diameter of over 210ft and could hold 5.5m cubic feet of gas. It has 22 wrought iron standards (columns) supporting the frame-work and is an example of a frame guided type.

 

 

Above : An empty spiral type holder with the stages (‘lifts’) neatly nested at ground level. When empty spiral types can’t easily be seen so do not impact on the skyline, although when full and raised are typically impressive and imposing structures. Note the stairways that allow access to the sections that can rise above them. Behind the spiral holder is an empty column type. Apologies for the poor quality of this photo which was taken from a passing train.

 

 

Above : Details of lattice built columns and horizontal bracing with the jumble of large pipes usually found in gas holder stations.

 

 

Above : A view of the gas holders behind the Oval cricket ground. There is a spiral type at the holder station but it can’t be seen in this view. This photo is dated April 2005, is in the public domain and courtesy of Jguk at English Wikipedia.

 

Hope this info is of use in modelling gas holders.

 

G

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most interesting, Grahame,

 

The gas holders at Chester, alongside the railway viaduct and the River Dee were part of what we called the gasworks. The whole place was never called a 'gas holder station' in my experience. 

 

It used to stink from time to time (coal gas in those days) and had a prominent sign on one of the taller buildings extolling readers to 'Use Gas'. 

 

It's long gone. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[The Stationmaster]

Ah, what an interesting lot of  byways there are to attract our attention on here at the moment.  Before I get back to the real railway (the one at Little Bytham that is) I'll quickly dive into one of them.  The oldest Rule Book I have is the 1877 LNWR & GWR Joint Rule Book and it very clearly uses the term Fireman in respect of the man working on a railway engine with the Driver, that term remained consistently in use in all Rule Books down to the end of steam and I have never heard of a different term being officially applied to that particular task.

 

The railway industry did of course also employ Stokers - most obviously they served on ships but it is possible (based more on information regarding rates of pay than anything else) that the also worked in other capacities such as tending the boilers in hotels and such like.  But the footplate job was very early on given the title 'Fireman' and that is the one which stuck in all official terminology.   I'll say little about a railway station other than that it is a station upon the line of route of the railway, ipso facto a 'train station' must logically therefore be upon a train.

 

Now back to the real world of contemporary railways and I must thank Tony for an enjoyable day at Little Bytham yesterday not forgetting the excellent cups of tea (of commendable flavour thank you) and of course the friend who transported me there along with colleagues.  But back to Tony's railway - I have long admired the aim and standard, and fidelity, of modelling on Tony's layout so it was a real pleasure to see it 'in the flesh'.  But the day also revealed something which puts the layout into the truly special category - it not only replicates the appearance and trains of Little Bytham in 1958 but crucially it can be worked (in so far as small scale allows) like Little Bytham in 1958.  This is something which not even videos can truly convey, it's only when you see it and get your hands on it that you appreciate it as a true 'model of a railway' and in my view that is the peak of railway modelling achievement.  And helped by a really intuitive control panel  for the station area which was a pleasure to work - thank you Tony:  who needs DCC with a control panel with that sort of simplicity?

 

So eulogies over, and a truly enjoyable day to remember, it was also possible to inject a little bit of real railway working practice into the day.  A signal failure meant that Rule 39(a) had to be applied to the Up Fast Home Signal - which I duly did (slightly to confusion of one of my colleagues doing the driving, but we got there), and in similar vein it was also necessary to ask if a train crossing Up Slow to Up Fast was a move booked in the timetable (it was).   Although block bells are (thankfully) not used I was also able to inform our host that a different bell signal (from that for a Light Engine) was used for an engine with one or two brakevans attached - it was 1-1-3 instead of the normal 2-3 for a light engine.  Alas I can't check this against the LNER (ex GNR & GCR Lines) Regulations in use in 1958 but it is not mentioned as a change in the briefing notes for the introduction of the 1960 'standard' Block Regulations so I presume it was in use in 1958.

 

So thanks once again Tony, a great day.

Edited May 10, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[Barry Ten]

4 minutes ago, Long John Silver said:

Referring to Al (Barry Ten’s) lovely City 4-4-0 and Tony’s comments about durability and cost/value, there should hopefully be a photo of my oldest loco that still runs with the original mechanism. It’s a Bulldog 4-4-0, built in 1990, it is not a great model, GWR experts could find much that is wrong with it. It is built from a K’s body and a West Coast Kit Centre chassis. No brake gear, DS10 motor, Romford Wheels. If I was building it now, I would have replaced the smokebox door and chimney. On the positive side it runs well, will pull 4 kit-built coaches and needs little maintenance beyond the occasional wheel clean. It is also my own work warts and all.

 

Lovely Bulldog - and didn't they have such wonderful names?

 

I don't particularly need one that ran in a particular area, so I'm just going to go for a nice, evocative name, provided it fits the straight-frame and coned-boiler production series.

 

Some tasty toplights there as well.

 

I'm wondering what might be my oldest still-running RTR loco. I've got a Mainline Collett goods from 1979 on its original chassis which still, against all odds, runs quite nicely, even if it's a bit noisy and gives off a fantastically nostalgic smell of burning oil! Still, not bad for 40 years old even though it's certainly not had 40 years of continuous service.

[grahame]

23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It used to stink from time to time (coal gas in those days) and had a prominent sign on one of the taller buildings extolling readers to 'Use Gas'. 

 

 

Natural gas also stinks as the smell is artificially added so that people can more readily and easily detect it. Occasionally we used to get 'smelly gas' warnings when the gas was accidently overdosed with the smelly chemical and the public would report lots of gas leaks/escapes potentially overwhelming the emergency engineers (knows as 'speedies'). Those were the days to avoid being on the emergency radio (speedies were radio controlled).

 

There was also a product called SNG (synthetic natural gas) that was manufactured as an emergency back up after towns gas was replaced by natural 'north sea' gas. This was stored under pressure in cylinders and IIRC there were several at the old East Greenwich works.

 

Gas holder sites were known as gas holder stations, although more probably after the associated towns gas works was decommissioned and more as an internal thing rather than a common public term. We used to have lists of their addresses and numbers and which ones to report to if London flooded. While working at the appliance delivery department at the Old Kent Road site the instruction was to drive the lorries up to Brenchley Gardens. 

 

G

Edited May 10, 2019 by grahame

[APOLLO]

Good informative posts Grahame. Gas Works - I started my engineering apprenticeship at Wigan Gas Works back in 1969 - "North Western Gas Board" back then !! It was still in production then, and had a small shunting diesel, the steam loco was still shut inside it's shed, I think it was later preserved.

 

Wigan Gas Works 1973 jut after closure. (More photos on my Flikr site below). Note how close to Town centre it was - most smell emanated from the oxide beds (right centre) where the gas was passed through iron oxide to remove sulphur etc. When the oxide was changed you put a peg on your nose !!! (Young kids today etc etc !!) Wigan NW (centre left) had just been electrified - progress !!

 

 

When the works was in production it was a living thing, hisses, clanks, whooshes, bangs, gurgles, etc (and that was just the Boss !!!), Steam Traps going off scared the living daylights out of you if you happened to be alongside one as it "went off"

 

All (well most) model railways need a Gasworks, some were huge, some tiny. The best ones I've ever seen modelled (in print only though) was the THREE on Peter Denny's "Buckingham" layout.

 

There is a nice small one here on page 11 of this download

 

https://archive.org/details/RailwayModellerAugust1963/page/n11

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

12 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I've got a selection of toplight bits in my spares box, sourced from the Coopercraft stand at Railwells, but it's not the same

as having all the parts as in the original Slaters kits. I gather there might be some faint possibility of the kits returning

to market under another business, so one can be hopeful.

 

I have just finished painting a toplight all third cobbled together from bits from the Coopercraft stand at Wells a few years back for the sides / ends  / roof and various bits from the scrap box for the chassis.  But like you say its not the same as having the full kit will all of those nice brass castings etc. 

 

I have nearly finished a complete kit for a composite, which just goes together so well.  Hopefully they will be available again soon as I will need more.

 

On the subject of coach models, here is a project I finished off last night.  It is a BSL kit for a J12 Great Western sleeper first (fitted with 247 developments GW 6 wheel bogies).  I still need to fit the flexible corridor connections, couplings and glazing (along with some roof boards).

[Long John Silver]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Lovely Bulldog - and didn't they have such wonderful names?

 

I don't particularly need one that ran in a particular area, so I'm just going to go for a nice, evocative name, provided it fits the straight-frame and coned-boiler production series.

 

Some tasty toplights there as well.

 

I'm wondering what might be my oldest still-running RTR loco. I've got a Mainline Collett goods from 1979 on its original chassis which still, against all odds, runs quite nicely, even if it's a bit noisy and gives off a fantastically nostalgic smell of burning oil! Still, not bad for 40 years old even though it's certainly not had 40 years of continuous service.

Thanks for the kind comments. I do like outside framed GWR 4-4-0s, I look forward to seeing your Bulldog progress.

The Toplights are Slaters; I managed to buy a Brake, Composite and Third way back in 1997.  I saw a couple for sale on a club stand at a show a couple of years ago – they had gone before the show opened. I must say you’ve done a great job on that PC Toplight, it really looks the part.

I have one Blacksmith (ex Mallard) Brake Third as well. This was only my second attempt at a brass kit. I cut the roof a couple of mil too short but somehow managed to solder the offcut back on again. It was the only part of the kit that was soldered, I wasn’t confident enough to solder the main bodywork. This had an unexpected advantage when some years later the coach became the only rolling stock victim of the “Great Roller Blind Disaster of ‘96”. Suffice to say having been hit by said blind the coach splintered in to the component parts. It didn’t bend or distort, just shattered, and I was able to clean up the parts and solder the kit together properly. The original bogies didn’t survive but were replaced by appropriate Westward ones. I made a better job of the blind installation second time as well.

I wasn’t as lucky as you with my Mainline Collett, it never ran well, but I had a 1982 Mainline Pannier that was a very sweet runner for about ten years, until the wheels came loose.

Jon

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

When were the Princess Coronations fitted with 'mechanical stokers'? They had a coal pusher in the tender (a steam-driven piston/pusher attached to the rear coal division plate which the fireman operated to move coal from the rear of the bunker forward after a long run), but it certainly wasn't a mechanical stoker. My understanding of a mechanical stoker is it's a sort of massive corkscrew-device, fitted between the loco and the tender which moved coal from the bunker into the firebox. A few 9Fs were fitted with one, but they were not that successful. 

 

I have seen both terms - mechanical stokers and coal pushers, used elsewhere with reference to the Princess Coronations. I am happy to accept that the term ‘coal pusher’ is a more accurate description in their case.  

 

However my point still stands in that the term ‘mechanical stoker’ is used in the UK rather than ‘mechanical fireman’.  For example, the device was fitted to three 9F’s (92165 - 92167) experimentally and has been described as such.  I assume that the term was adopted from across the pond, where their use was much more prevalent because of the longer runs and larger fire boxes that required more coaling than a man could reasonably be expected to handle.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Long John Silver said:

Referring to Al (Barry Ten’s) lovely City 4-4-0 and Tony’s comments about durability and cost/value, there should hopefully be a photo of my oldest loco that still runs with the original mechanism. It’s a Bulldog 4-4-0, built in 1990, it is not a great model, GWR experts could find much that is wrong with it. It is built from a K’s body and a West Coast Kit Centre chassis. No brake gear, DS10 motor, Romford Wheels. If I was building it now, I would have replaced the smokebox door and chimney. On the positive side it runs well, will pull 4 kit-built coaches and needs little maintenance beyond the occasional wheel clean. It is also my own work warts and all.

I think it was the sixth loco kit I built and was the most expensive loco I had at the time, when all costs were taken into account. It was a gamble; I didn’t want to waste money on something that was beyond my limited skills, but my wife, who is very supportive of my hobbies, encouraged me to give it a try. Thankfully it worked out well.

I had to have a 4-4-0, I just like them, but if you model the dark green railway company in South Wales post war, you have a very limited choice. Calcutta was the last Bulldog at Pontypool Road, and so is OK for my area, although I wonder how much it would have been used . Those of you who model the Southern and LNER of course, have a wonderful choice of pre-group types still running at that time.

Good value – yes, but it was a significant outlay at the time. However, it has outlasted all the r-t-r locos I had at the time.  Which worked out better value in the long run?

By comparison the oldest r-t-r loco I have with the original mechanism, which still runs regularly is a Bachmann Collett Goods at 20 years old and is beginning to show signs of age. It is however a much more detailed and accurate model.

Modern r-t-r runs better, as to model longevity, the older I get the less I worry about it. Anything I buy or build now that lasts 28 years will probably outlive me.

Jon

Nice Toplights.

[copleyhill007]

The Berkeley mechanical stokers were fitted to 9Fs 92135, 92136 and 92137 for use on Saltley - Carlisle heavy freights over the Settle and Carlisle. They were initially unsuccessful because of the size and quality of the coal as they jammed the stokers on many occasions. It was very difficult to hand fire these 9Fs. Apparently when anthracite sized coal was fed it worked very well. (See Saltley Firing Days by Terry Essery - published by Silver Link).

Edited May 10, 2019 by copleyhill007

[Mallard60022]

My favourite Gas Holders were the ones next to Bristol Barrow Road shed. For some unknown, but probably weird, reason I have a fascination for Industrial sites such as shown in a few of those photo's shown above and those involved in the Oil Storage and or Petroleum Products production. Freud would have found me to be a wonderful subject to analyse.

Apologies for extending the OT subjects, however this is Wright Writes and it is a fairly free discussion forum for railway related subjects, however tenuous. Incidentally I have learned more today about the Storage of gas than in my previous life.

Sincerely,

Phil

[Barry Ten]

Not sure if I'm better off not confessing this, but as a small child I used to have nightmares about gas holders. I think some well-meaning relative had told me that they moved up and down, and somehow I took that to mean that they moved more generally, coming out of their enclosures like Daleks ... 

[Joseph_Pestell]

19 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Not sure if I'm better off not confessing this, but as a small child I used to have nightmares about gas holders.

 

Mine were about mill chimneys. Aged 2, we went to stay for a few days with a friend of my Mum's who lived at Chadderton (Oldham). The foreboding dark grey skies and silhouettes of unfamiliar chimneys certainly left its mark on me with resulting nightmares for years.

 

I expect that Fred Dibnah and colleagues have knocked them all down now.

[Fat Controller]

5 hours ago, Bucoops said:

The two gas holders near me were recently demolished, sad times, and now we will see even more cupboard sized flats with no supporting infrastructure...

 

There is the modern equivalent of course - for example the huge concrete Liquified Natural Gas holders at the Isle of Grain.

THere are also some facilities you'll probably never see, as they're either buried in worked-out mines, or use old oil wells in the North Sea.

[Bucoops]

13 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

THere are also some facilities you'll probably never see, as they're either buried in worked-out mines, or use old oil wells in the North Sea.

 

Quite likely - the IoG ones are a tad exposed...

 

The area I worked at still showed the scars from the 1953 (?) floods - and this was about 2010!

Edited May 10, 2019 by Bucoops