Wright writes.....

[Chamby]

Exams are like building locomotive kits... the more you do, the better you become at it.  The same goes for teachers preparing students for exams... they get better at it over time.  So what is perceived as ‘dumbing down’ is often simply due to those working within the system becoming more familiar with it, and able to better prepare their students for the exams.  So pass rates go up over the years, creating the impression of ‘dumbing down’.  Ever heard a teacher say ‘revise this, it hasn’t come up recently, so is due a question’...?  There are only so many topics in each subject, and certain types of questions that can be asked.   It’s called ‘teaching to the test’, a recognised phenomenon. 

 

Strange, but true.

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Interesting comment there G. Some time ago, on a local Farcebook discussion Group (Redhill), I got into a slightly dodgy discussion with a person that posted about his time as a Stoker at Redhill Loco Shed. Perfectly acceptable posts with him posting some good pics and recounting various trips around the area (that I knew really well) where he 'stoked' the loco's. I asked what stoking was as I had always known the person shovelling the coal on a steam loco being known as a 'Fireman'. Ships had Stokers! He got quite irate at this, so I departed after a couple of exchanges, not wishing to make him feel upset in any way.

So, a question if I may? Anyone else encountered steam locomen calling themselves Stokers rather than Fireman and could it be that us 'enthusiasts' used the name but the professionals used others on occasion, especially if they were ex Navy? My view is that the chap was being a bit 'imaginative' with his accounts and was possibly actually fantasising, but then I am a cynical old git, or maybe an old git that can be cynical?

I am sure I have read books where the grades of employment at Depots/Sheds were noted and Fireman was used a the official title of a certain level of experienced employee after Passed Cleaner. Happy to be corrected.

Phil 

 

 

What is their union called?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Society_of_Locomotive_Engineers_and_Firemen

 

 

 

Jason

[Headstock]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 terrorists on our streets (yes, there were 'The Troubles', but not to the same extent)

 

Sorry Tony,

 

I have to call you out on this one, Twenty bomb attacks on Belfast alone and five hundred murdered in a single year, rose tinted views on railways is one thing, on the Troubles it is something else. I have family and friends who lived through those times who would spit in you eye.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What is their union called?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Society_of_Locomotive_Engineers_and_Firemen

 

 

 

Jason

Ah, so they be Engineers and not Engine Drivers then...….. but Firemen are deffo not Stokers.   I had forgotten about ASLEF ...thanks. Maybe the bloke I was on about was not interested in the political affiliation of said Union and decided to do his own thing? I'd be surprised if he was not a Union member though, but probably not a 'Union man'! 

P

Edited May 9, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Sorry Tony,

 

I have to call you out on this one, Twenty bomb attacks on Belfast alone and five hundred murdered in a single year, rose tinted views on railways is one thing, on the Troubles it is something else. I have family and friends who lived through those times who would spit in you eye.

Sorry Andrew,

 

My apologies if I've offended members of your family by my ill-advised comments, though I doubt if anyone has ever offended me to the extent that I'd spit in their eye! And, where have I suggested that I view the 'Troubles' with anything but horror? I had colleagues and friends who were involved, too. My point was comparative, but clearly not accurate.  

 

However, as many have said, let's return to what this thread is all about - railways and model railways.

 

Today, four friends came and operated LB. Three were professional railwaymen, and I was immensely gratified by their comments as to how it ran. They ran it entirely correctly, with Mike Romans (The Stationmaster) as signalman. One signal has failed (yet another Viessmann motor gone west!), but, no matter, the Up fast trains were brought under caution up to the home signal, before it was cleared and they could then pass the starter at 'danger', accelerating away. All following the correct procedure. Thanks Mike. 

 

The whole sequence was run, without fuss, failure or any problems. 

 

Finally, thanks chaps for your hospitality and most-generous contributions to CRUK.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[grahame]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Ah, so they be Engineers and not Engine Drivers then...….. but Firemen are deffo not Stokers.  

 

Nah, according to my new Oxford Dictionary of English they be stokers: "noun a person who tends the furnace on a steam-ship or steam train." 

 

G.

[figworthy]

8 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Well at least The Big Boy is back in action over the pond !!

 

And look how well behaved the public is trackside.

 

Brit15

 

Particularly well behaved at ~17 minutes in where they are sitting on the track.

 

Leaving that aside, what are the yellow tanks for (water ?)

 

Adrian

[Northmoor]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Electric traction always suffers on preserved lines because examples can only be static exhibits. 

Tell that to the National Tramway Museum........

[Northmoor]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I think it's a most-interesting discussion. As for the electrics being geared for 100 mph, was that a maximum? In 1976, I went up Stoke Bank behind BALLYMOSS and we were doing 105 mph at one point - climbing! Granted, it was a light train, but I've never been so fast behind a first-generation electric. 

 

It was a "100mph-limited AL6" that beat Mallard's record, Tony, by hitting 129mph in about 1971 (admittedly with a aerodynamic GRP nose).  86204, as it become, wasn't re-geared for that test run.

[Barry Ten]

Some modelling!

 

(Did someone mention 100 mph?) 

 

 

The chassis here is for a Bulldog, using the Branchlines kit for the Airfix City.

 

The City chassis works really well (after a fair few tribulations) so I thought I'd just copy the mechanical arrangement I used earlier, but I soon  hit a snag! The gearbox

on the City is underslung, where there's plenty of clearance with those big drivers, but the Bulldog has much smaller drivers so I've gone for a top-mounted arrangement, as shown here. I reckon (optimism?) that it'll work even better, as there'll be more room in the boiler for weight over the drivers. The City will pull quite satisfactorily, but the Bulldog should be a real slogger, I hope. I've got the rods on and bench-tested it with leads, and it runs really nicely without a hint of binding. Onward!

 

Also on the bench is this PC Models toplight:

 

It's just about done barring additional underframe detail, for which the kit is a little lacking, but I'm reasonably happy with the end-result using this venerable old kit. I did have a fight with the roof profile, which shows up a little cruelly in this shot, but as a layout coach.... and what else are the options, anyway? The Slaters kits are all but unobtainable, as are the Geen and Mallard (?) ones. In fact, it's very difficult to model toplights in 4mm.

 

I've got one more of these to do, and that's it - I've kept a very careful eye on ebay over the years and they just don't come up very often, and I certainly haven't seen them on the second hand tables at exhibitions. I can on;y presume that those who bought these kits got on with building them, and so unassembled examples are scarce.

 

Al

Edited May 9, 2019 by Barry Ten

[Steamport Southport]

Good of you to post a picture of a proper 100 MPH locomotive. 

 

 

Jason

[Hollar]

10 hours ago, Dr Al said:

 

I work in higher education, and have seen it first hand.

 

Cheers,
Alan

A strange definition of evidence for an academic.  More like anecdote.

 

Tony

[Dr Al]

2 minutes ago, Hollar said:

A strange definition of evidence for an academic.  More like anecdote.

 

Tony

 

I have plenty of evidence. Have alluded to some of it, but would I want to post it all here? No.

 

Alas this is OT.

 

Cheers,
Alan

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Nah, according to my new Oxford Dictionary of English they be stokers: "noun a person who tends the furnace on a steam-ship or steam train." 

 

G.

Furnace?????

[St Enodoc]

24 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Some modelling!

 

(Did someone mention 100 mph?) 

 

 

The chassis here is for a Bulldog, using the Branchlines kit for the Airfix City.

 

The City chassis works really well (after a fair few tribulations) so I thought I'd just copy the mechanical arrangement I used earlier, but I soon  hit a snag! The gearbox

on the City is underslung, where there's plenty of clearance with those big drivers, but the Bulldog has much smaller drivers so I've gone for a top-mounted arrangement, as shown here. I reckon (optimism?) that it'll work even better, as there'll be more room in the boiler for weight over the drivers. The City will pull quite satisfactorily, but the Bulldog should be a real slogger, I hope. I've got the rods on and bench-tested it with leads, and it runs really nicely without a hint of binding. Onward!

 

Also on the bench is this PC Models toplight:

 

It's just about done barring additional underframe detail, for which the kit is a little lacking, but I'm reasonably happy with the end-result using this venerable old kit. I did have a fight with the roof profile, which shows up a little cruelly in this shot, but as a layout coach.... and what else are the options, anyway? The Slaters kits are all but unobtainable, as are the Geen and Mallard (?) ones. In fact, it's very difficult to model toplights in 4mm.

 

I've got one more of these to do, and that's it - I've kept a very careful eye on ebay over the years and they just don't come up very often, and I certainly haven't seen them on the second hand tables at exhibitions. I can on;y presume that those who bought these kits got on with building them, and so unassembled examples are scarce.

 

Al

A well-known RMwebber (not me!) is selling some Slaters/Coopercraft toplight parts on eBay at the moment:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Slaters-Cooopercraft-GWR-BR-toplite-coach-sides-ends-and-roof-00-EM-P4/123757147444?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[polybear]

13 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Surely the fireman gets his power from being fed a decent breakfast to enable him to work and shovel the coal from an external location in to the fire. Odd, as usually these day firemen put out fires rather than stoke them.

;-)

 

G

 

 

But to add to the confusion:  The breakfast is cooked on the shovel using the heat inside the firebox that the fireman is stoking....

 

11 hours ago, Dr Al said:

 

Exams have been ruthlessly dumbed down, that's how.

 

Cheers,
Alan

 

I asked a retired chemistry teacher how it is that schoolchildren of today can do so many subjects, but in my day (late 70's/early 80's) if you managed 5 O-levels at age 16 you'd done well.  The answer he gave?  In my era we were taught the subject, but today they are taught what they need to pass the exam - which can be a long way off understanding the subject, apparently. 

[Barry Ten]

53 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

A well-known RMwebber (not me!) is selling some Slaters/Coopercraft toplight parts on eBay at the moment:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Slaters-Cooopercraft-GWR-BR-toplite-coach-sides-ends-and-roof-00-EM-P4/123757147444?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I've got a selection of toplight bits in my spares box, sourced from the Coopercraft stand at Railwells, but it's not the same

as having all the parts as in the original Slaters kits. I gather there might be some faint possibility of the kits returning

to market under another business, so one can be hopeful.

 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Some modelling!

 

(Did someone mention 100 mph?) 

 

 

The chassis here is for a Bulldog, using the Branchlines kit for the Airfix City.

 

The City chassis works really well (after a fair few tribulations) so I thought I'd just copy the mechanical arrangement I used earlier, but I soon  hit a snag! The gearbox

on the City is underslung, where there's plenty of clearance with those big drivers, but the Bulldog has much smaller drivers so I've gone for a top-mounted arrangement, as shown here. I reckon (optimism?) that it'll work even better, as there'll be more room in the boiler for weight over the drivers. The City will pull quite satisfactorily, but the Bulldog should be a real slogger, I hope. I've got the rods on and bench-tested it with leads, and it runs really nicely without a hint of binding. Onward!

 

Also on the bench is this PC Models toplight:

 

It's just about done barring additional underframe detail, for which the kit is a little lacking, but I'm reasonably happy with the end-result using this venerable old kit. I did have a fight with the roof profile, which shows up a little cruelly in this shot, but as a layout coach.... and what else are the options, anyway? The Slaters kits are all but unobtainable, as are the Geen and Mallard (?) ones. In fact, it's very difficult to model toplights in 4mm.

 

I've got one more of these to do, and that's it - I've kept a very careful eye on ebay over the years and they just don't come up very often, and I certainly haven't seen them on the second hand tables at exhibitions. I can on;y presume that those who bought these kits got on with building them, and so unassembled examples are scarce.

 

Al

As usual, this is great stuff, Al,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

And, thanks for bringing the thread back to topic.

 

I take part of the responsibility for it going OT by responding to a post of little relevance, compounding the situation by muddling facts in the process (the more-recent Troubles, in the main, were way after the end of BR steam, and I should not have mentioned them at all). 

 

I seem to be good these days at muddling facts. How could I forget the electrified preserved tramways? My reference, of course, was to electric locos. I recall a Class 86 and 89001 on display at Barrow Hill during an all-traction gala - standing dead! 

 

I need to get back to modelling again, after spending three days demonstrating at the excellent Bristol Show. Though it's always a terrific experience, it takes me a week or so to recover my modelling motivation. I need to, because I've got a chassis to put together for an N7 being built by a mate. Typical; it's one of the first locos he's built (the mechanics are a step too far at present, though he'll get there), and, immediately, an RTR example appears. Still, this one will be far more personal.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

[Bucoops]

8 hours ago, polybear said:

 

But to add to the confusion:  The breakfast is cooked on the shovel using the heat inside the firebox that the fireman is stoking....

 

And boy does it taste good!

[johnarcher]

9 hours ago, polybear said:

 

 

I asked a retired chemistry teacher how it is that schoolchildren of today can do so many subjects, but in my day (late 70's/early 80's) if you managed 5 O-levels at age 16 you'd done well.  The answer he gave?  In my era we were taught the subject, but today they are taught what they need to pass the exam - which can be a long way off understanding the subject, apparently. 

Really? I'm sure when I did them (1967) most of us did about 8 O Levels.

My one reason for suspecting dumbing-down is going on - I think I have heard that at least some schools are doing Chaucer in translation now

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Nah, according to my new Oxford Dictionary of English they be stokers: "noun a person who tends the furnace on a steam-ship or steam train." 

 

G.

That's the same dick tionary that calls a station a Train Station is it.....? Devil's dumpling product and should be burned in the fires of that bloke Hades...who was a Fireman at Exmouth Junction………………….

[Mallard60022]

20 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

And boy does it taste good!

….not quite so good if it has not been thoroughly doused with the slack pipe and then stuck in the Firehole Door to decontaminate following use as a 'Potty'!

Beware the so called rust tint to a shovel...…………………!

A. Stoker.

[Bucoops]

14 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

….not quite so good if it has not been thoroughly doused with the slack pipe and then stuck in the Firehole Door to decontaminate following use as a 'Potty'!

Beware the so called rust tint to a shovel...…………………!

A. Stoker.

 

True, but one of the luxuries of the preservation world was a shovel purely reserved for brekkie

[Mallard60022]

In case anyone is disturbed by my light hearted posts, then complain to the management. However, I would argue that the more obscure and often bizarre things I read on RMW give as much pleasure to some, as does the serious discussion. 

So to conclude my little intervention for this week, BR Drivers known as Engineers? Nope! BR Firemen known as Stokers? Nope! OED the respected tome? Nope!

Train Station...………….like pah and like double pah, to be honest, at this point in time, going forward!

Good morning.

V. Meldrew. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, Bucoops said:

 

True, but one of the luxuries of the preservation world was a shovel purely reserved for brekkie

No longer? Austerity? I do not mean the type of locomotive Perhaps the preservation bods have a special collection of cherished shovels hanging in the Cab (better check that it is called a Cab) I suppose?

Actually, just before I go, I have read of Firemen (yes, those people of muscle, grit and often Beret or knotted handkerchief on noggin) that lost their shovel in the box and also in other 'interesting ways'. Anecdotes welcome on a dull and grey Friday morning.

P