Wright writes.....

[EddieB]

Hi Eddie

 

As I said in my earlier post, all this camera talk just goes wizzzzzzz over my head. 

 

If someone has taken the time to build a model for their model railway then on this forum surely the subject is more important than the photo.

 

 

This is a model railway forum, whilst understanding many people enjoy photography (and model railway photography) the subject matter comes first not the skills of the photographer. 

This thread ain't big enough for the both of our views, eh pardner?

 

Say we settle our differences: High Noon, sun over your shoulder (I'm happy to shoot contre-jour), sunny f16, fill-in flash?

 

Ok, you win.  I'll saddle up and ride out...

[Atso]

Hi Tony,

 

In regard to my own comments, I am referring to those who add additional smoke effects and 'paint' out the room that the layout is housed in (yes, I appreciate that you add 'sky' to some of your pictures). For me, I am happy to see pictures of models without 'steam' and if a wall, bookcase or window gets into the shot then it only serves to remind me just how small and detailed these models really are - therefore adding to my appreciation and enjoyment of the workmanship, not detracting from it.

 

I remember reading an article in MRJ about the late Guy Williams where the writer described his models as imperfect but capturing the character and essence of the prototype (not a direct quote by any means). If I recall correctly, many of the models photographed were against plain backgrounds, were nicely in focus and really did highlight to quality of the workmanship, warts and all. Most importantly was that every single model was believable and very much displayed there own character and for me this is something the has to be attributed to the builder for making such a stunning model and the photographer for being able to capture the essence of the subject on film (or file!).

 

All that being said, I am slightly hypocritical as my desktop display is a very nice picture of my n gauge J50 (I designed the body and Hans Starman scratchbuild a compensated chassis for me) that Andy York kindly took at Ally Pally last year. I understand from Andy that this photograph was touched up as some of the transfers have crazed slightly and this really had shown up under the strong light. I've included the picture below as it really does show Andy's skill with a camera and editing software (as well as to show that I really am a hypocrite in my own comments!).

 

 

I was present at St. Albans on Sunday and would have very much liked to have met you in person (unfortunately not to be). I do very much enjoy this thread (although rarely contribute to it) and always look forward to seeing the progress made on your layout, locos and stock.

 

Finally, and slightly off topic, it is great to hear that Fence Houses won an award. Sunday was the first time I've seen this layout in the flesh and it was simply awe inspiring in every way for me.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Atso

[Clive Mortimore]

Oh what have I done by saying the model is more important than the photo? 

 

I like the photos shared on this forum that have been taken by those who know what they are doing with a camera.

 

I don't know what I am doing with a camera, all I know when the blue lines go green on my digital camera it is saying push the button now and I get a fair picture. 

 

I am no photographer but with my camera I am please with photos like these, not of model trains but kestrels. 

 

Family of 3 chicks and an adult bird, 2012. 

 

This is the tree that they use to nest in, the above photo taken from the same spot. 

 

Taken a year later, one of the 2013 chicks practicing flying, well flapping his wings. 

 

The nest tree blew down in late 2013, we set up a nest box nearby and three chicks were fledged in 2014 but I either had my camera and they hid or I had no camera with me. 

 

As I say I am no photographer but with a decent digital camera most modellers should be able to take a photo to share their modelling with the rest of us. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

I am sorry if I caused offence or misunderstanding Tony with my comments about product photography. Perhaps I need to explain something before I retreat and let the thread get back to what it should be, modelling, illustrated with well taken photos.

 

For much of my career I was a magazine editor, and we frequently used to commission airbrush illustrations for the front cover. The fashionable style at the time was ultra detailed "photograph" style illustrations, which looked "larger than life". I hope people understand but it is difficult to describe in words and cover design has moved on. It is these illustrations that your (and most other modern) product photos remind me of, and why I said I find them difficult to believe - are the real or are they airbrush jobs?)

 

But I am looking forward to seeing the scenery develop so please keep up the photographs (in focus and properly lit) of progress. I must admit that all these newfangled pacific locos and bogie coaches tend to look the same to me, but scenery and buildings require the same techniques and skill whatever period you are modelling.

[Clive Mortimore]

Further to my post late last night, and re-reading the other post form last night. 

 

We can all have our views on what we want from a model railway photograph but let us not fall out as we all enjoy railway modelling and looking at the photos we share with each other. 

[jrg1]

Why shouldn't there be a conversation about photography on this thread?  The photographs of Little Bytham and the trains on it are quite inspirational, and remind me of the Petherick articles in MRJ-the photography brings out the best in the layout, and motivates the likes of me.  Large scale images of the Hornby K1 and various other engines help put across various points Tony Wright is making.  Carry on, I say!

[Oldddudders]

I am also sorry that this thread has turned grumpy. It is true that not everyone who models has an interest in photography, per se, nor is it necessary, but this thread is about and by a chap who combines the quality end of both arts (yes) to the advantage of us all. And it is worth noting that other highly-regarded RMwebbers also spend much time perfecting their layout-snapping skills, too. Coachmann, already a very competent photographer as well as a leading constructor and painter of models, and Great Northern, whose increasing willingness to try new photo techniques has so enhanced his marvellous and famously popular Peterborough North thread, come to mind among others. And Andy Y's photography needs no bouquet from me, it speaks for itself.

 

I believe there are other online forums where words matter more than photography, but I am sure much of RMweb's success is based squarely on Andy Y's belief that getting pictures into threads and galleries makes this the place to be, and he has developed the forum with that theme aforethought. Quality modelling and quality photography are what keep me here, and this thread is at the core of both.

[johnarcher]

I agree with the last post. Surely much of the point of this thread is that it can move on and look at almost anything modelling related, if one subject doesn't interest you just wait a bit and another will be along soon. I'm not much interested in photography, and I had no great interest in 00 locomotives of the Less Neatly Engineered Railway, but I'm happy to enjoy the model-making on display and know a new subject will appear before long.

Thanks for all of it Tony.

[Tony Wright]

I'm even more baffled.

 

Since 60116 (HAL O' THE WYND) won't be reading this (or so it would seem), perhaps I might make some comments to clarify the situation for others.

 

If anything I wrote in my last post was ill-mannered or showed contempt for those perceived as being 'lower' (am I interpreting this properly?), then I apologise, for that was not my intention. My comments about photography were about my own 'standards', not those of others. The same goes for my model-making. I hope folk realise that I'm my own sternest critic in both departments.  

 

Two opposing pillars of the same height? What does that mean? Might that situation even give you equilibrium? As I say, I'm even more baffled.

 

The late Dave Shakespeare once called me a 'Marmite Man'. What better epithet can one wish for? As for the perception that 'I'm looking down on others', perhaps the folk I'm helping (and have helped) in their model-making, on a one-to-one basis or in groups, or those I've helped with their photography might like to comment as to whether they feel that's the case.

 

I've always been of the opinion that being forthright in correspondence is better than being duplicitous. If that's 'offensive' to some, then so be it.

 

Finally, out of possible interest, HAL O' THE WYND was the first A1 I remember seeing, at Riccall, one hot summer's afternoon in August 1956. The family's old Humber had stopped near the crossing to cool off, and 60116 breezed by on a fast freight. Little did I realise that getting on for 60 years later the same name would crop up in entirely different circumstances. 

[Andy Y]

I'm a little perplexed, as is Tony I think, how any disenchantment came into the topic. Even thought Tony and I may disagree on some of the finer points of model photography (but we don't fall out about it) we both have a passion to do the best that can be achieved in the circumstances. Of course we may go further than most in the pursuit of quality but that's what we're paid to do. Of course if you're a modeller who is also a photographer then the two will come together; Tony's a far better modeller of many things than I ever will be and for that immense credit is due and it's his modelling that is the principal focus of the topic but imagery inevitably comes to be discussed.

 

I will absolutely defend Tony and state that I feel his product images for the magazine reviews are absolutely second to none in any of the magazines from a technical perspective and I am confident that there is no manipulation which materially improves or discredits the model; they simply record fact in the most incisive way, this can be brutal particularly when photographing an N gauge product which ends up across a spread in the mag but at least he can and at least readers can see a product in detail they'll probably never see with unassisted eyeballs.

 

 

I had posted before, hence, the whole point of my post was to elicit  a response from Mr Wright.

My post was made at 6.20 last friday. I waited. To purposely ignore was obviously a calculated decision.

 

I'm unsure as to what response was sought to this, in fact it was made as a response to Clive's post rather than anything Tony had said so it appears to be an offshoot from Tony's posts. I don't think there was anything to fall out about nor any reason to sit in expectation of a response from Tony.

 

I hadn't intended to take the topic off anywhere when I posted a response about photography to a question from Tony; we're all in this hobby (or parallel ones) to do the best we can rather than creating any disagreements.

[nerron]

I'm even more baffled.

 

Since 60116 (HAL O' THE WYND) won't be reading this (or so it would seem), perhaps I might make some comments to clarify the situation for others.

 

Pleased to see Tony that you have put the apostrophe in its correct place!

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not only sorry about the emergent grumpiness but also puzzled by it. 

 

Anyway to better things - firstly I was pleased to learn that many years ago Tony Wright had the benefit of seeing the railway at what sounds like York Road Gates (at Riccall) having myself spent many hours on the platform and on a particular piece of wall just to the south (by the other level crossing).  But even more reassuring was to see that I'm not the only person who finds a wood saw of use in scenic work - even if my efforts aren't up to the inspirational standards of Little Bytham and various other layouts of the ECML to be found in this forum.

 

Tony's thread offers a wonderful mix of the modeller's art, explanation of that art, and showing us what dedication to a particular subject can achieve and that, I think, is very much what this forum is about - inspiration.  The talk about model related photography techniques has also been of interest to me and seems, in my view, to have sat nicely in the mix of modelling and explaining that modelling which this thread gives us. 

 

In a few words - I like it here.  Thanks Tony.

 

Edit - to insert missing comma (and get it in the right place, eventually!)

Edited January 13, 2015 by The Stationmaster

[Smiffy2]

A recent edition of the leading French photography magazine Chasseur d'Images included a full test of the camera in the iPhone 6 & 6Plus. They were very impressed, awarding it 5 stars, while the new Pentax K-S1 DSLR, for example, only got 4. A photo of a TGV at 200 kph, passing through a platform and thus no more than 10 metres from the photographer, is reproduced as a 19 x 14.5 cm image. They include a blown-up portion at 100% showing the pantograph in contact with the OLE. Admittedly the sky is blue so there was plenty of light, but everything is as sharp as you could want.

 

While this in no way represents the capability in model photography, the camera manufacturers should be worried by this.

I have followed the lead of my son (semi-pro) who gave away his compact camera in favour of the iPhone, and in fact rarely uses his DSLR. I still use mine, but my grand daughter got the Lumix (itself a very good compact) and I use my phone for opportunist shots.

[Spannerman]

Well said Old Dudders.

 

The interest in this thread is the fact that it does meander around different subjects, be they telegraph poles,photography or the merits of kit building over rtr.

 

All subjects take differing tangents most are factual or educational and in the background is the ongoing enjoyment of Little Bytham. Which is all presented by an exceptionally experienced figurehead within the UK modelling scene.

 

I personally look forward to seeing more high quality photos and models.

 

Atb

 

Nik

[PGC]

Sadly, the written word is a monochromatic communication medium, and it is very easy to misinterpret words even when they're well written, which, to my mind, is how Tony writes all the time.

 

There are also, regrettably, a few people on this forum who seem to think they are the only one who can have a valid opinion and it is those people who need to learn tolerance and understanding.

 

As for your posts, Tony, please keep them coming, whatever the subject. They are certainly most enjoyable.

 

Phil

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

The best topics meander, and the best of that is that I get exposed to things I never suspected might be of interest.  

 

It pays to keep an active and open mind, and if things aren't for you - there's no need to let anyone else know.

[gr.king]

the Denis Moore Cup,

May I inject a little strange humour here and ask whether said trophy is engraved with the words "Your lupins or your life" and was the presentation accompanied by a version of the Robin Hood theme music?

Edited January 13, 2015 by gr.king

[Tony Wright]

Oh what have I done by saying the model is more important than the photo? 

 

I like the photos shared on this forum that have been taken by those who know what they are doing with a camera.

 

I don't know what I am doing with a camera, all I know when the blue lines go green on my digital camera it is saying push the button now and I get a fair picture. 

 

I am no photographer but with my camera I am please with photos like these, not of model trains but kestrels. 

 

065a.jpg

Family of 3 chicks and an adult bird, 2012. 

 

062a.jpg

This is the tree that they use to nest in, the above photo taken from the same spot. 

 

023a.jpg

Taken a year later, one of the 2013 chicks practicing flying, well flapping his wings. 

 

The nest tree blew down in late 2013, we set up a nest box nearby and three chicks were fledged in 2014 but I either had my camera and they hid or I had no camera with me. 

 

As I say I am no photographer but with a decent digital camera most modellers should be able to take a photo to share their modelling with the rest of us. 

 

 

 

 

Taken just after I'd built this loco and Ian Rathbone had painted her, towards the end of the last century. Original Nikon Coolpix (Rubic Cube thingy) with just about a million pixels.

 

 

 

 

And, on the duty for which I built her, which she now performs on Little Bytham. 

 

Oh, my apologies for mentioning cameras again!

 

Edited in case my final comment was misunderstood.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Tony Wright

[Grafarman]

Wonderful pictures of a beautiful loco; what more can one ask for...?!

 

I must admit I tend to skim through the technical jargon bandied about regarding photography and the intimate details of the foibles of certain kits, preferring instead to study the building, detailing and running processes from the pictures provided; most of the modelling and picture quality on display here are far above my own abilities or equipment, but I can fully appreciate the skills required for both artforms and happily click the 'like' button accordingly.

 

Long may this thread continue!

 

 

David

[davidw]

60130 02.jpg

 

60130 34 rear 01.jpg

 

Taken just after I'd built this loco and Ian Rathbone had painted her, towards the end of the last century. Original Nikon Coolpix (Rubic Cube thingy) with just about a million pixels.

 

60130 B&W.jpg

 

60130 passing Austerity.jpg

 

And, on the duty for which I built her, which she now performs on Little Bytham. 

 

Oh, my apologies for mentioning cameras again!

 

Edited in case my final comment was misunderstood.

Stunning Tony - Stunning. seeing that makes me wonder if I should sell my Bachmann versions for DJH examples... 

Edited January 13, 2015 by davidw

[bbishop]

May I inject a little strange humour here and ask whether said trophy is engraved with the words "Your lupins or your life" and was the presentation accompanied by a version of the Robin Hood theme music?

No, because that is a miniature.  We think we last saw the original in Tim Venton's clutches and are rather hoping that he, or whoever has it, will return it to the CMRA.  Also no music!  The soundtrack was most likely: "This is a final call for exhibitors and stewards with thirteen fifty lunch tickets ....."

Bill

[Oldddudders]

"The singer, not the song"

 

"The photographer, not the camera"

 

QED

[Clive Mortimore]

60130 02.jpg

 

60130 34 rear 01.jpg

 

Taken just after I'd built this loco and Ian Rathbone had painted her, towards the end of the last century. Original Nikon Coolpix (Rubic Cube thingy) with just about a million pixels.

 

60130 B&W.jpg

 

60130 passing Austerity.jpg

 

And, on the duty for which I built her, which she now performs on Little Bytham. 

 

Oh, my apologies for mentioning cameras again!

 

Edited in case my final comment was misunderstood.

Hi Tony 

 

OK it is a crap photo of a not that well made model, it was my early scratchbuilt locos back in 1983. 

One night at our club it hauled 32 Lima and Triang coaches, we didn't have anymore that night and was still doing over 60 mph on the up hill stretch. Two Hornby pancake motors and all the space between the motors filled with steel bar. Number On Sun when aged about 4 destroyed one of the cabs, as the loco did not fit in with my mid 60s modelling it was scrapped a few years ago, never having the cab repaired. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony 

 

OK it is a crap photo of a not that well made model, it was my early scratchbuilt locos back in 1983. 

hs 4000.png

One night at our club it hauled 32 Lima and Triang coaches, we didn't have anymore that night and was still doing over 60 mph on the up hill stretch. Two Hornby pancake motors and all the space between the motors filled with steel bar. Number On Sun when aged about 4 destroyed one of the cabs, as the loco did not fit in with my mid 60s modelling it was scrapped a few years ago, never having the cab repaired. 

 

Done by Number One Son when aged about 17/18. Made from a Silver Fox resin body (I think, or could it be something else?) and, thankfully, still in one piece. It's fitted above a Lima mechanism and it certainly won't pull that much.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Tony Wright

[Mallard60022]

Kestrel.....what a superb pic. It even has the AWS magnet fitted; brilliant model (SWMBO from about 3' away asked if it was model or real and she knows her ER Pacifics).

On a lighter note, I almost dropped my mouse when I first saw the fourth pic as I thought it was a Grange in the loop......(must get some new lenses in specs)!

Finally, why did I not buy Stoke Summit when it was available? Kicking myself yet again right this minute; just look at those embankments....great stuff.

P