Wright writes.....

[polybear]

Clive, Martin and Tony - many thanks

[88C]

Thanks for posting your photos Tony and since you ask here are some details. All are Barry Railway models.

 

The first is a B1, the main work-horse of the Railway. It has been built from a Redcraft kit which comes as etches only, the boiler fittings were cast for me by a  fellow club member. I have used a Mashima motor and a Branchlines multibox. More details of the build can be found on my 88C Workbench thread where a second loco has been documented.

 

Secondly is a C class. This is a scratch build with suitable fittings bought at exhibitions. I have used Scalelink drivers which don’t run as true as Markits, I will be paying the extra in future. Rivets are Archer transfers. The C class were light passenger locos and one of the was used to take the pay clerk’s van round the system. An interest vehicle but as far as anyone knows there is no photograph of it, only a partial in the background of something else.

 

Finally is a K class, five were imported from the Cooke company in America when British builders were too busy. Heavier on fuel than the B1s the Ks were restricted to shunting and banking. This model was built from a C L Lester kit, now with Redcraft, round about 1990. It has a DS10 motor Branchlines 2 stage gearbox.

 

I was delighted to see how well the 0-6-2 locos handled Tony’s long coal train, thanks for the opportunity to try.

 

Brian

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by 88C
Spelling

[Barry Ten]

22 minutes ago, 88C said:

Thanks for posting your photos Tony and since you ask here are some details. All are Barry Railway models.

 

 

 

 

Delightful to see those BR locos.

 

Al (Barry born and bred).

[Tony Wright]

37 minutes ago, 88C said:

Thanks for posting your photos Tony and since you ask here are some details. All are Barry Railway models.

 

The first is a B1, the main work-horse of the Railway. It has been built from a Redcraft kit which comes as etches only, the boiler fittings were cast for me by a  fellow club member. I have used a Mashima motor and a Branchlines multibox. More details of the build can be found on my 88C Workbench thread where a second loco has been documented.

 

Secondly is a C class. This is a scratch build with suitable fittings bought at exhibitions. I have used Scalelink drivers which don’t run as true as Markits, I will be paying the extra in future. Rivets are Archer transfers. The C class were light passenger locos and one of the was used to take the pay clerk’s van round the system. An interest vehicle but as far as anyone knows there is no photograph of it, only a partial in the background of something else.

 

Finally is a K class, five were imported from the Cooke company in America when British builders were too busy. Heavier on fuel than the B1s the Ks were restricted to shunting and banking. This model was built from a C L Lester kit, now with Redcraft, round about 1990. It has a DS10 motor Branchlines 2 stage gearbox.

 

I was delighted to see how well the 0-6-2 locos handled Tony’s long coal train, thanks for the opportunity to try.

 

Brian

 

 

'I was delighted to see how well the 0-6-2 locos handled Tony’s long coal train, thanks for the opportunity to try.'

 

That train's 43 wagons-long, mainly kit-built (some white metal), many with ancient stub bearings. 

 

Great stuff Brian, and many thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Michael Edge]

12 hours ago, polybear said:

A quick question to the Great and Knowledgeable, if I may?  I've recently acquired a Loco fitted with a Portescap motor.  I'd like to give it a quick test run, but am a little wary of which (if any) of the following controllers would be suitable:

A Gaugemaster DS, fitted with a brake simulation knob, or an H&M Duette with half/full wave switch?

Failing that, I've a decent lab. d.c. power supply, or a 9v battery....

Many thanks

Brian

Don't use the half wave, it wasn't a very good idea back when it was common and motors of any sort don't like it. Anything else won't do the motor any harm but check that the gearbox turns freely, old pink grease is the Portescap's worst enemy. I've been using a few Portescaps (I don't have many myself although I've used hundreds of them) for years on Gaugemaster feedback controllers with no ill effects whatsoever.

[Tony Wright]

53 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Don't use the half wave, it wasn't a very good idea back when it was common and motors of any sort don't like it. Anything else won't do the motor any harm but check that the gearbox turns freely, old pink grease is the Portescap's worst enemy. I've been using a few Portescaps (I don't have many myself although I've used hundreds of them) for years on Gaugemaster feedback controllers with no ill effects whatsoever.

'but check that the gearbox turns freely, old pink grease is the Portescap's worst enemy.'

 

Thanks Mike,

 

I've had several Portescaps brought to me at my clinics over time - locked-solid! They've not been used for ages (years, in some cases), and the only way to free them is to use my strength to force the driven drivers round by hand! Once free, and with the red gunge removed as best I can (by flooding the 'box with model oil in situ), they then run. Ideally, they need taking out of the frames and given a good 'wash'. I've got one on the bench right now. The red lubricant has turned to clay! 

 

I wonder why this useless lubricant was used in the first place in such high-quality drives?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Tony Wright

[grahame]

10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I wonder why this useless lubricant was used in the first place in such high-quality drives?

 

 

Was it some kind of transit grease to protect (from moisture, movement, etc.,) before use? It sounds rather like the white gunk that Farish slapped all over worms and gear drives that usually needs cleaning out and replacing with a thin lubricant.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by grahame

[Tony Wright]

20 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

No im not a tradie, I am a warehouse manager for a family run business that has been going since 1927. Although I do work saturdays doing landscaping, let me tell you, I don’t know how my mates work trades six days a week, I do it one day a week and it takes a hard man to do it! 
 

 

Tony I do apologise, I don’t mean to hijack your thread, but I’m just so popular. 
 

Now I really am off to bed, otherwise I really won’t have a job tomorrow and that really won’t be eggciting will it? 
 

 

Good morning Jesse,

 

Hijack away (though I doubt if that's what you're doing). Your posts are always great fun and worth reading (and I'm having to use the red pen less and less these days - just two this time. The contraction of I am needs a apostrophe and Saturday is a proper noun). 

 

See me.

 

Sir. 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'but check that the gearbox turns freely, old pink grease is the Portescap's worst enemy.'

 

Thanks Mike,

 

I've had several Portescaps brought to me at my clinics over time - locked-solid!. They've not been used for ages (years, in some cases), and the only way to free them is to use my strength to force the driven drivers round by hand! Once free, and with the red gunge removed as best I can (by flooding the 'box with model oil in situ), they then run. Ideally, they need taking out of the frames and given a good 'wash'. I've got one on the bench right now. The red lubricant has turned to clay! 

 

I wonder why this useless lubricant was used in the first place in such high-quality drives?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I’ve had a few like that. Removing the gearbox and soaking it in meths overnight, then a light re-oiling has freed mine up nicely.

[St Enodoc]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The contraction of I am needs a apostrophe

It also needs a capital I...

 

It's all right, I'll let myself out.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I wonder why this useless lubricant was used in the first place in such high-quality drives?

I wonder why it is still commonly used in RTR models, and my practice is to removed it with the aid of a rattlecan electronic/switch cleaner, allow the ratllecan stuff to evaporate off, and re-lube with decent non-mineral machine oil.  I suspect the reason for it's being there in the first place is to do with shipping regulations, especially fire regulations, and shipping insurance requirements.  But it is the very opposite of a lubricant, a seizeupicant.

[Clem]

The wonky wagon (part 2)....

 

The other one is the Charles Roberts type converted from a Bachmann.

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

Don't use the half wave, it wasn't a very good idea back when it was common and motors of any sort don't like it. Anything else won't do the motor any harm but check that the gearbox turns freely, old pink grease is the Portescap's worst enemy. I've been using a few Portescaps (I don't have many myself although I've used hundreds of them) for years on Gaugemaster feedback controllers with no ill effects whatsoever.

Further to Michael’s advice I would add the following:  As I understand it the manufacturers of coreless motors would advise that their motors are designed to work with smoothed DC current.  I have seen narrative in the past that suggested the life span of a coreless motor is measured in the number of switching events rather than the time the motor is actually running. Also these motors are very efficient to the point they are often used as generators to drive monitoring equipment  for larger devices.   This higher voltage overwhelms the feedback circuit in some controllers which then overreact.

 

When Portescap units were first launched there was a strong warning from the manufacturers not to use either ECM feedback controllers  or Relco units because their circuits were too aggressive and would quickly damage the motor.   From my experience the Gaugemaster GMC HH feedback controller appears to effect coreless  motors in a similar way  and certainly the Gaugemaster site recommends this controller not be used with either coreless or N gauge motors.

 

If your layout uses analogue controllers then the closer to smooth DC you can provide the kinder it will be to the motor but   If your layout has both cored and coreless motors then some of the older/cruder motors will not run as well on pure DC.  Most controllers will be fine for both just as Michael has already said.

 

If using DCC control the story is different and if the CV’s on the chip are adjusted correctly coreless motors can deliver outstanding slow speed performance particularly suited to shunting.  You will need to read the instructions that come with the chip to determine what CV adjustments should be made for coreless motors to get the best outcome.  It should be recognised That some chips are more compatible than others to coreless motors and care should be taken when selecting a DCC chip.

 

I hope this helps to answer the original question.

 

Frank

 

 

[Michael Edge]

It's the Gaugemaster HH that I've used with Portescap motors for years with no discernible effect at all - they are all still working perfectly. To repeat something I said earlier the only failures of the Escap or Faulhaber motors I have seen have been worn out brush gear (which is wire, not carbon). The failure rate is very low, far lower than most other makes.

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Was it some kind of transit grease to protect (from moisture, movement, etc.,) before use? It sounds rather like the white gunk that Farish slapped all over worms and gear drives that usually needs cleaning out and replacing with a thin lubricant.

 

 

It wasn't just for transit, the original leaflet specifically stated that the guarantee would be invalidated if the grease was removed. The grease is easily removed by spraying with GT85 - works on other mechanisms with solidifying grease problems as well, see discussions elsewhere on here about Heljan Co-Bos. In my experience oil works much better than any sort of grease.

[MJI]

I used to run my RG4 shunter (was given the motor as their kit build failed), on a variable transformer, ran perfectly well, could get down to motor shaft speed of 4rpm.

 

Tried my transistorised plug in control (works fine with XO4 and ringfield types) and I turned it straight off, first bit of power and it shot off making horrible noises.

 

Same pair of controllers got used for the twins train set rather than buying cheap controllers and worked Bachmann stuff well as well.

 

It appears to only be coreless motors that insist on very clean DC.

 

As to lubricant, any recommendations?

[Chamby]

Here we go, chaps...  might be worth checking your local model shop before setting out:  Hatton’s are no longer accepting visitors at their store, they are now fulfilling online and telephone orders only:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=758

 

Think I might pay a visit to Camborne this afternoon, whist I can!

 

 

[polybear]

3 hours ago, MJI said:

I used to run my RG4 shunter (was given the motor as their kit build failed), on a variable transformer, ran perfectly well, could get down to motor shaft speed of 4rpm.

 

Tried my transistorised plug in control (works fine with XO4 and ringfield types) and I turned it straight off, first bit of power and it shot off making horrible noises.

 

Same pair of controllers got used for the twins train set rather than buying cheap controllers and worked Bachmann stuff well as well.

 

It appears to only be coreless motors that insist on very clean DC.

 

As to lubricant, any recommendations?

 

I've read that Labelle 102 is pretty good for lubing Portescaps.

[MJI]

Just now, polybear said:

 

I've read that Labelle 102 is pretty good for lubing Portescaps.

 

I do need to lubricate quite a few as many have dried up including old Triang motor bogies and Limas

[Tony Wright]

Since Dave Wager spent a lot of time detailing the underneath of the new bridge, I thought I'd at least try and show it.......

 

 

 

 

 

One thing not exactly related to the girder bridge (though it provides the scenic break at the north end) is my insistence that the main line goes onstage/offstage on the 'straight', so to speak. The essential 180 degree curve is behind the camera, some six inches beyond the bridge - thus invisible from normal viewing angles. The same is so at the south end. 

 

Visible tight radii going on/offstage on man lines always compromises realism....... 

 

 

[nerron]

Tut,tut.

Visible tight radii going on/offstage on man (sic) lines always compromise realism.....

Edited March 14, 2020 by nerron

[CF MRC]

Awful lot of subsidence around the telegraph pole near the bridge, Tony...

 

Tim

[polybear]

5 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Awful lot of subsidence around the telegraph pole near the bridge, Tony...

 

Tim

 

I bet Tony's got a photo...

[cctransuk]

14 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Awful lot of subsidence around the telegraph pole near the bridge, Tony...

 

Tim

 

A quite common method of getting wires under, rather than over, roads.

 

One method was to attach the insulators to the bridge piers; thus the wires 'ducked under' the overbridges.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

28 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I bet Tony's got a photo...

I have, Brian,

 

And it shows that pole exactly as it is.

 

Unfortunately, the picture's in a magazine and I don't have a digital copy. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.