Wright writes.....

[Clive Mortimore]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clive,

 

I wonder why some folk seem to think it's all right to pick up models off a display?

 

I concede, if there's some confusion as whether it's a second-hand item up for sale, or a display piece, then it's done in all 'innocence'.

 

However, as in my case, where a model is clearly on a demonstrator's table, surely a polite request to handle it is the very least any well-mannered punter could ask. No, some just pick things up regardless. Despite having a 'First in Diplomacy', I might often appear rude in my response! 

 

On the other hand, some visitors are often surprised when I'll hand over a model I've made, for them to inspect closely, after they've asked questions. 'Oh, I might damage it!' is often the response. 'Don't worry, I can always make another'. 

 

One chap I used to always hand over models to had lost his sight during an air raid in the War, as a boy. He always (with a friend) attended the St. Albans show and his ability to identify each model, merely by touch, was incredible. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

I have often had the person who will not believe me. He stands there either prodding the model (if you are lucky) or is waving it about "Where did you get this from?" I made it myself. "No you never, where did you get it from?" This can carry on for what seems a long time even after my request for him to put it down. A few times a mate has said "I will go get the show organiser" before the person backs off. It is people like that which makes me wonder why I attend shows as a layout owner, helping a mate to operate his train set or as a demonstrator.

 

Then I think of times like at St Albans where a boy about 5 or 6 years old pointed at my homemade class 37 and said "That's a class 37, I have a Hornby one at home just like that". Thinking about what he said always cheers me up and is worth it.

 

 

[The Johnster]

We are, I submit, by and large a hobby of gentlemen, with a few ladies, and our behaviour by and large matches that specification.  It is therefore all the more bothersome when bad behaviour manifests itself at shows.  Incidentally, I am an unreconstructed backpacker, but leave the rucksack at the door with the ticket sellers, who never object when you state that you realise that it's at your own risk and they're not responsible for it.  I take a plastic carrier bag or two in my pockets to deal with any shopping, which then gets decanted into the rucksack for the journey home.  I find shows quite stressful because of the crowds and lack of space, though, and these days only bother with small local ones, even then preferring the quieter time over Sunday lunch.  I'm usually outta there by just after 2pm...

 

The stress, heat, and general frustration of the situation may well be a factor in such behaviour, not that I'm saying it's an excuse for it!.  Back in the day, when I exhibited with a club layout, I had a cut'n'shut 116, made from hacked Lima 117 bodies on Lima chassis, and without gangways in light green whiskers livery.  It ran well enough when it and the tracke were clean (still does, as a matter of fact) and I'd worked it up with flush windows, better buffers, detailed interiors, scale couplings, hoses, wire windscreen wipers and so on.  It attracted a good bit of attention and questions about where I'd 'got' it; most were happy to accept the explanation and some wanted to know how I'd done it, but there were a few who a) wanted to buy it (it wasn't for sale because I didn't want to redo the work of building it), and b) wouldn't accept that it wasn't available over the counter somewhere.  I used to get a bit of satisfaction from this, and would sometimes just say something like 'if you want one, you have to build yourself like I did', which was never helpful.!  The 116 often ran with another club member's Lima 117 based 121, this being before Lima had produced their own RTR version, which attracted similar attention.  Just one of the reasons I don't exhibit any more.

 

This was 30-odd years ago and shows that it's not a  modern phenomenon, and again it was middle aged blokes, not kids, that were the perps.  I'm sure that both now and back in the day traders lost models off the ends of their stands in the crowds, and most have the good stuff in the middle where they can keep an eye on it.  This is a shame, and leaves a nasty taste. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by The Johnster

[Chamby]

The worst ‘rucksack’ experience I saw was at Warley a couple of years ago, where a chap had a loosely slung duffle bag over his shoulder with a few lengths of PECO streamline waving around out the top, at eye level.  The guy stood next to me watching a layout got slapped across the side of his head with the track when the duffle-bag carrier turned around next to him.  

 

No apology... he just walked off swearing.

[Tony Wright]

Reference to the C12 earlier prompted me to go through the archive............................

 

 

I built/painted this Craftsman example as a Christmas present for Ian Wilson over a decade ago. 

 

Later on, Tom Foster weathered it -  perfectly. Why I didn't take a picture afterwards, I have no idea. 

 

 

At much the same time, Ian handed over a SE Finecast one he'd built - well, at least the body. 

 

Naturally, it had been glued together! Anyway, I detailed it, built the chassis for it and painted it. 

 

Again, Tom Foster subsequently weathered it, and, again, I neglected to take a further picture. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

A little more digging in the archive produced some more C12s...................

 

These have probably appeared before, but, in some cases, years ago.

 

 

This is the Crafstman C12 I built for Ian Wilson, handed over at Christmas 2010, with a promise to paint it soon. 

 

It's a good job we can't always see the future, because shortly after, early in the New Year, depression struck me again, and it was a further three years before I was able to keep my promise. 

 

 

Another view of Tom Rance's C12. I think he's changed the bogie/pony wheels now.

 

 

Three scratch-built C12s, brought by David Somers (the son of the one time New England shedmaster, Jack Somers). 

 

 

Andy Sparkes' C12, photographed at the Woking Show in 2017. 

 

Locos I was building at the time in the background.

 

 

I built a SE Finecast C12 for use on Graham Nicholas' Grantham. It was part of a barter; I sprayed it black and he finished it off (I wasn't sure which number he wanted). 

 

I think the C12s are very pretty locos. I never saw one, but I'll probably build one for myself - light engine from Doncaster, trundling through LB? 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

We are, I submit, by and large a hobby of gentlemen, with a few ladies, and our behaviour by and large matches that specification.  It is therefore all the more bothersome when bad behaviour manifests itself at shows.  Incidentally, I am an unreconstructed backpacker, but leave the rucksack at the door with the ticket sellers, who never object when you state that you realise that it's at your own risk and they're not responsible for it.  I take a plastic carrier bag or two in my pockets to deal with any shopping, which then gets decanted into the rucksack for the journey home.  I find shows quite stressful because of the crowds and lack of space, though, and these days only bother with small local ones, even then preferring the quieter time over Sunday lunch.  I'm usually outta there by just after 2pm...

 

The stress, heat, and general frustration of the situation may well be a factor in such behaviour, not that I'm saying it's an excuse for it!.  Back in the day, when I exhibited with a club layout, I had a cut'n'shut 116, made from hacked Lima 117 bodies on Lima chassis, and without gangways in light green whiskers livery.  It ran well enough when it and the tracke were clean (still does, as a matter of fact) and I'd worked it up with flush windows, better buffers, detailed interiors, scale couplings, hoses, wire windscreen wipers and so on.  It attracted a good bit of attention and questions about where I'd 'got' it; most were happy to accept the explanation and some wanted to know how I'd done it, but there were a few who a) wanted to buy it (it wasn't for sale because I didn't want to redo the work of building it), and b) wouldn't accept that it wasn't available over the counter somewhere.  I used to get a bit of satisfaction from this, and would sometimes just say something like 'if you want one, you have to build yourself like I did', which was never helpful.!  The 116 often ran with another club member's Lima 117 based 121, this being before Lima had produced their own RTR version, which attracted similar attention.  Just one of the reasons I don't exhibit any more.

 

This was 30-odd years ago and shows that it's not a  modern phenomenon, and again it was middle aged blokes, not kids, that were the perps.  I'm sure that both now and back in the day traders lost models off the ends of their stands in the crowds, and most have the good stuff in the middle where they can keep an eye on it.  This is a shame, and leaves a nasty taste. 

It's a shame you don't exhibit any more (though none of is at the moment).

 

I suppose the risk of theft is ever-present at exhibitions, but the low-life perpetrators are rarely caught in my experience. I wonder (perish the thought) if some stuff is 'nicked to order'. 

 

It is a bit galling when, having spent hours creating something personal and unique, punters ask if it's the latest RTR what not (it having just been released). It's happened to me with A1s and A2s, and next year will happen, no doubt, when Hornby's Thompson Pacifics are released. From other comments, it's a very common occurrence. 

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've been asked if the models I've built on display are for sale. It's invariably a certain type - white, late middle-aged male, cash 'rich', space 'rich' and time 'rich', but skill 'poor'. There seems to be an awful lot of them. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, Iain.d said:

 

I would think that for many modellers, they are on a journey; I know I am.  Below is one of those basic RTR models you mentioned, that I succumbed to take and improve. When I was first given the Triang 3F, I think in the mid 80s, it was probably the best part of 30 years old then and a non-runner. I cleaned it up and got it going, I then replaced the Triang drivers with Romford’s, not too successfully as I had to bodge the pick-ups and I think the wheel flanges fouled the plastic body and my home made coupling rods didn’t quite match the crankpins. I cut away the plastic under the boiler, made the reversing rod from bits of plastic and carved off the handrails and replaced them with wire. It even has crew and lamps! The piston things below the smokebox door are pins, pushed through with a hot soldering iron, as were the cabside handrails!

 

 

The original ‘too small’ and inappropriate 3500 gallon tender body was binned and replaced by some old plastic food packaging cut to an approximate shape. The coal rails are from a Hornby Compound. The chassis is as, and won’t run on code 75 rail.

 

A bit later on, during my journey of learning and experience, the Triang loco chassis was replaced with a Comet one, a Jinty I think. And it’s compensated, not sure the brand of hornblock guides but they’re plastic, and has a small Mashima can motor. The finish is brushed Humbrol matt black and a brushed varnish. From memory it ran quite well.

 

A while back I was looking through my stock and thought about recycling the wheels to a 4F, the chassis to a Jinty and, probably, binning the rest. But I looked at it and thought, ‘it’s maybe not that bad. What else can I do with it?’ I was able to pick up an unmade George Norton etched brass tender on eBay for about 6GBP (plus about 12GBP postage to Australia!) and I found some Alan Gibson wheels in an old tin. The tender is in the queue to be built, not sure how it will sit with the crude plastic body of the loco, but however it comes out I’m not really fussed as it will continue my journey.

 

Anyone got any other ‘journey’ modelling they want to show?

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

I think it's splendid Iain,

 

Please carry on with your journey. 

 

I had a Tri-ang 3F as a boy, but it ended up looking nothing like yours. In fact, I think it went in the bin eventually!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Manxcat]

As something slightly different from buildings and rolling stock I offer this picture of a set of points I recently constructed for my new layout. I had always used ready made track for my first 6 or 7 years as a modeller then graduated to SMP point kits. It was then only a matter of time before I discovered I could buy copper clad sleepers and individual yard lengths rail and work the whole lot into a point of the radius and length of my choosing. 

 

The first entirely hand built point I made (around 40 years ago) was a double slip. I must have been mad to try that first but to my astonishment it worked perfectly. I have now graduated to using Templot to design several layouts including our current club layout. I particularly like to be able to build configurations one could not possibly make with proprietary points, just like the one in the picture. 

 

It is very satisfying to think of how much this would have cost to have professionally made for me when it only cost about £18 for the materials. 

 

Archie

[rowanj]

I have been catching up and was interested in Tony's description of the A2 on a Triang Brit/Princess chassis block. During lockdown, I considered using a chassis block in the spares box to go under a body from a tender-drive Brit body. However, what put me off was the inability to get 24mm Romfords to fit without the outer driving wheels fouling the centre ones. The other main issue was the leading bogie- the loco had ridiculously small wheels under the "nose" of the chassis. All this is before trying to fit appropriate valve gear, and fitting a modern motor/ gearbox. But Tony has obviously solved the first 3 issues and the last is just hard work with a Dremel and bastard file. Cler so and so, and donkey's years ago, at that.

But I have managed to get an A2/3 onto a modified SEF A2 chassis, and fitted a DJH ex-NER tender to a BachmannJ39 to create a J39/3.

[Erichill16]

This theft at railway exhibitions reminds me of one of our Harrogate International Centre exhibitions many years ago.

An irate trader who specialised in tinplate  collectibles, bust into the exhibition organisers office and asked to use the halls tannoy system. He asked that the person who had stollen a particular model should return to his stand to ‘collect’ the tender as both items were  worthless without the other!

I can’t unfortunately remember the outcome.
Regards

Robert

[westerner]

Thinking of C12 here's my photo of my mate SAD's C12 on his layout Salmon Pastures my favourite loco when I help to operate the layout at exhibitions.

 

[Hollar]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Have you ever asked yourself the question, 'Why did I offer to do this?'. 

 

I do, all the time, yet I never learn!

 

However, in the case of the following two models, I've fixed them for a dear friend, so my work is justified......

 

 

This is a Stephen Poole E4, acquired by my friend at a swop-meet some time ago; builder unknown. 

 

Whoever built it should have taken up another hobby/job because, quite frankly, it's rubbish! 

 

Badly glued-together, with a K's Mk.2 motor, its running matched its appearance - exactly! 

 

Anyway I've made a slightly better sow's ear out of a sow's ear, and, at least it now runs - amazingly, quite well, after much adjustment to the mesh!

 

 

New pick-ups (the originals were rubbish phosphor bronze) fitted, and tender pick-ups as well, it should now be able to negotiate dead-frog points (why does anyone employ these?). 

 

 

A different builder, but almost as bad, complete with the most-natural (real!) weathering I've ever seen. This is a Craftsman kit, and most of it is glued together! 

 

 

Anyway, with bogie pick-ups it should run over 'plastic' track, especially with the meshing now correct. 

 

Where two of the footsteps have gone is anyone's guess. The ghastly glue residue is apparent. 

 

I'm sure my friend will be happy, but aren't they grotty? That said, they're probably typical of many (most?) kit-built locos. 

 

Fortunately, my dear old friend does not look at RMweb (I don't even know if he's got a computer). 

 

Fortunately, not all kit-built C12s I see aren't so bad (this is the first E4 anyone has brought).

 

 

This beautiful example guesting (and, thus, not requiring lamps) on Little Bytham was built/painted by Tom Rance. 

 

 

 

 

Another E4 in OO - a John Brighton build of a Gibson kit. A bit clean, perhaps.

 

 Tone

[The Johnster]

Cash rich?  Not me!  Space rich?  Not me!  Time rich?  Well, I don’t think so, though I am retired... 

 

Skill poor?  Now, that sounds exactly like me!

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

We are, I submit, by and large a hobby of gentlemen, with a few ladies, and our behaviour by and large matches that specification. 

I'm not so sure. As a hobby, we seem to attract a disproportionate number of folk with less well-developed social skills. Not a criticism of them, just an observation..

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I wonder (perish the thought) if some stuff is 'nicked to order'.

It certainly is.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

This theft at railway exhibitions reminds me of one of our Harrogate International Centre exhibitions many years ago.

An irate trader who specialised in tinplate  collectibles, bust into the exhibition organisers office and asked to use the halls tannoy system. He asked that the person who had stollen a particular model should return to his stand to ‘collect’ the tender as both items were  worthless without the other!

I can’t unfortunately remember the outcome.
Regards

Robert

If that's who I think it might have been, he was well-known in Yorkshire as one of the worst culprits.

[jrg1]

34 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

If that's who I think it might have been, he was well-known in Yorkshire as one of the worst culprits.

There was an episode in the BRMA in South Australia some time ago, when a new member advertised brass models for sale.  Enquiries revealed that he was a petty conman, and I believe that the police dealt with him.

[jrg1]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

A little more digging in the archive produced some more C12s...................

 

These have probably appeared before, but, in some cases, years ago.

 

 

This is the Crafstman C12 I built for Ian Wilson, handed over at Christmas 2010, with a promise to paint it soon. 

 

It's a good job we can't always see the future, because shortly after, early in the New Year, depression struck me again, and it was a further three years before I was able to keep my promise. 

 

 

Another view of Tom Rance's C12. I think he's changed the bogie/pony wheels now.

 

 

Three scratch-built C12s, brought by David Somers (the son of the one time New England shedmaster, Jack Somers). 

 

 

Andy Sparkes' C12, photographed at the Woking Show in 2017. 

 

Locos I was building at the time in the background.

 

 

I built a SE Finecast C12 for use on Graham Nicholas' Grantham. It was part of a barter; I sprayed it black and he finished it off (I wasn't sure which number he wanted). 

 

I think the C12s are very pretty locos. I never saw one, but I'll probably build one for myself - light engine from Doncaster, trundling through LB? 

67352, the last C12 (Wdn Grantham 19/11/58) was an exhibit at the Lincoln Holmes Yard Open Day on 16 and 17/1/1959.  Then straight to the scrapyard. 

[richard i]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Cash rich?  Not me!  Space rich?  Not me!  Time rich?  Well, I don’t think so, though I am retired... 

 

Skill poor?  Now, that sounds exactly like me!

I feel your pain, with a job and kids, cash, space and time are really missing. At this stage in life unless you are really committed modeling would go by the way side. No wonder so many come back to the hobby in later life. 
As for skill poor, I am sure my report card ( like most), says, could (should/ must) do better. If I am to make the things I want then I need to acquire new / more skills. That’s why I try to learn as much as I can from demonstrators at exhibitions/ from here / friends. Thank you to them all. 
richard  
 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, rowanj said:

I have been catching up and was interested in Tony's description of the A2 on a Triang Brit/Princess chassis block. During lockdown, I considered using a chassis block in the spares box to go under a body from a tender-drive Brit body. However, what put me off was the inability to get 24mm Romfords to fit without the outer driving wheels fouling the centre ones. The other main issue was the leading bogie- the loco had ridiculously small wheels under the "nose" of the chassis. All this is before trying to fit appropriate valve gear, and fitting a modern motor/ gearbox. But Tony has obviously solved the first 3 issues and the last is just hard work with a Dremel and bastard file. Cler so and so, and donkey's years ago, at that.

But I have managed to get an A2/3 onto a modified SEF A2 chassis, and fitted a DJH ex-NER tender to a BachmannJ39 to create a J39/3.

I turned down the flanges of the 24mm Romfords, so that they'd fit in the Tri-ang chassis block. 

 

If one were doing it today, then Markits RP25s would probably fit, but who'd use a Tri-ang chassis block, anyway? 

 

I just fitted 12mm Romford bogie wheels in the Tri-ang bogie (which I think is a twitch short), and the Jamieson motion (including the cylinders) seemed to fit with relative ease.

 

It was, of course, a long time ago!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Hollar said:

Another E4 in OO - a John Brighton build of a Gibson kit. A bit clean, perhaps.

 

 Tone

A first rate example of making a silk purse locomotive from a silk purse kit!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Teague]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've been asked if the models I've built on display are for sale. It's invariably a certain type - white, late middle-aged male, cash 'rich', space 'rich' and time 'rich', but skill 'poor'. There seems to be an awful lot of them. 

 

 

I am sure that you are right Tony, but the irony of what you say is that in your past commercial, loco-building days, they would probably have been ideal customers!

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Cash rich?  Not me!  Space rich?  Not me!  Time rich?  Well, I don’t think so, though I am retired... 

 

Skill poor?  Now, that sounds exactly like me!

Perhaps my description was too general, and it's wise not to generalise - at least too much.

 

However, I think the demographic can be quite specific, or, at least, in part. Most of my questioners are of the same baby-boomer generation as me; those born during the final War years up until the very early-'50s (anyone born later doesn't really qualify). Most would appear to have had reasonable careers, and now, in retirement, are seeking to recreate what they saw as schoolboy 'spotters. Thus, they had a good job and now have a reasonable pension. They probably own their own homes, thus no mortgage and with their parasites departed (children) they fit into my generalisation - 'cash' rich, 'time' rich, 'space' rich, but 'skill' poor; the last-mentioned because 'life' got in the way of their modelling for 40-odd years!  They had train sets as boys (Tri-ang, for the poor, like me) up to Hornby-Dublo, Trix, or even Graham Farish (for the more-wealthy), but 'left' the hobby to pursue further education, careers - and woman! Those caught, ending up as wives. One has, of course, to factor-in future divorce, which then means being poor in every department! 

 

I call the questioners returnees to the hobby. Their latent interest has been re-awakened. They return to a positive RTR treasure-trove compared with the crudity they left behind all those years ago. However, the RTR on offering isn't comprehensive enough, hence the 'How much is that?' when they see a model I've made which is not built from a kit, and, more-importantly, is not available RTR. 

 

The 'skill' poor factor is because, unlike folk such as me, they haven't carried on modelling, thus missed out on developing those skills. The likes of schoolboy young Jamie on here are very rare, and, in my experience, the best models made are after one is 30 years old - just the time when the baby boomers were at their 'poorest'.

 

Could those who return learn the skills needed? Possibly, but, in my experience, no. Even some who've stayed in the hobby never could, and never will, largely because they put up too many 'barriers'. 

 

At least that generation is keeping the hobby going - hence the burgeoning RTR market, which is still mainly steam-outline. It also keeps professional model-makers going, which is a good thing. And, as long as those who've had their 'modelling' effectively done for them, always (and I mean always) credit what they've got to others, then there is no harm.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

25 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I am sure that you are right Tony, but the irony of what you say is that in your past commercial, loco-building days, they would probably have been ideal customers!

They were Tony,

 

And, when I was building professionally, many commissioners were from the previous generation to mine. Thus, even though I specialised in LNER/BR motive power, many commissions represented locos in pre-War condition, even pre-Grouping condition. One, a GEM 'Jumbo', I built in EM, and it carried the name THE AUDITOR. Why? Because it was a retirement present (in the mid-'80s) for a real auditor! 

 

I wish I'd taken its picture. I wonder where it is now? If the owner is still alive, he's over 100 years old! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

[FarrMan]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Cash rich?  Not me!  Space rich?  Not me!  Time rich?  Well, I don’t think so, though I am retired... 

 

Skill poor?  Now, that sounds exactly like me!

My thoughts exactly!

 

Lloyd