Wright writes.....

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

No time for that stuff on an early 50's layout with limited traffic. 2 LMS vans 2 LNER vans and one Br van would be more than enough at least one should be ex NER. adding GWR and SR vans would just require building more of the others so they didn't look too daft. Then you would require more opens, minerals etc. Besides he has ammonia tankers to build.

 

Virtually all wagons and vans would be common user well before then so why would an ex GWR or SR wagon look daft? 

 

What wagon turned up would be pretty much random. The idea of all wagons and vans being ex LNER is bizarre. Just wouldn't have happened. 

 

This is Birmingham 1922. Count the different railway companies as you've got virtually one of each of all the companies then in existence. 

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy692.htm

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy692b.htm

 

MR, L&Y. LNWR. GCR, GER, GNR. NER. GWR, CR, NBR, LBSC, etc. Just in one photograph. Other similar photos on the same website have NSR. SECR and LSWR wagons. I think that's nearly all the major companies.

 

 

 

Jason

[Headstock]

54 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Virtually all wagons and vans would be common user well before then so why would an ex GWR or SR wagon look daft? 

 

What wagon turned up would be pretty much random. The idea of all wagons and vans being ex LNER is bizarre. Just wouldn't have happened. 

 

This is Birmingham 1922. Count the different railway companies as you've got virtually one of each of all the companies then in existence. 

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy692.htm

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy692b.htm

 

MR, L&Y. LNWR. GCR, GER, GNR. NER. GWR, CR, NBR, LBSC, etc. Just in one photograph. Other similar photos on the same website have NSR. SECR and LSWR wagons. I think that's nearly all the major companies.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Afternoon Jason,

 

It depends how many wagons you intend to build for a layout.  most couldn't accommodate or source all of the examples that you list above. If it is a relative backwater in the West Ridding of Yorkshire, circa 1950, like most model railways you can only select a limited number of specific vehicles to represent the whole. GWR and SR wagons would be so far down the list of the small fleet of wagons required, they wouldn't be on it. The reason being that, as has been noted, you can't build everything that could theoretically appear but you can build the most typical wagons that represent well a particular time and location, Otley, West ridding of Yorkshire, 1950. As far as the location is concerned, if it's a choice and there is always a choice for the modeler, between SR and GWR vans and something ex NE for example, or the ammonia tank wagons, the SR GWR just isn't in it. If the location being modeled was Wellington street goods yard in Leeds, fine, plenty to go at.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Headstock
add info

[MJI]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thus came June....................

 

 

I bought this much-modified Hornby NB Type 2 off friend David Rae.

 

Still on its original Hornby chassis, all I did was widen the back-to-backs so that it could pass through 'scale' trackwork. 

 

It runs as a light engine. 

 

An old Jamieson 'Jubilee' appeared.........

 

 

Which Graham Nicholas bought, all proceeds going to CRUK.

 

 

This Millholme Q1 had been involved in a car crash. I repaired any damage, got it to go again, and it was sold for CRUK.

 

The buyer brought along this astonishing thing............

 

 

Built from a Judith Edge kit.

 

 

Another car crash victim was this PC Restaurant Triplet. I repaired it and it, too, was sold with all proceeds going to CRUK. 

 

Friend Dylan Sanderson brought along three Hornby locos he'd had weathered by Tom Foster.

 

 

 

 

All these effects were taken from prototype photographs. 

 

 

I was sent a dud Replica/Bachmann spilt-chassis B1. For which I built a Comet chassis.

 

 

 

I bought two ex--Stoke/Charwelton locos from friend Mick Peabody in June.

 

 

Mick had built this DJH 'Britannia', I painted it and he weathered it. 

 

 

I'd made this Hornby/Comet 8F for him. He had no further use for it, so I bought it back.

 

Rob Kinsey had started this Model Loco 9F.............

 

 

He'd made the chassis and I started on the body. It'll be seen completed later. 

 

I also swopped the Model Loco/DJH Black Five seen earlier for this.........

 

 

I built this from a combination of Nu-Cast, DJH, Comet, Crownline and Bachmann parts for Norman Turner, which Ian Rathbone painted. With no Stoke or Charwelton to run it on, it's far more appropriate for LB.

 

 

Friend Nick Logan brought along some rolling stock he's made/making.

 

Quite a busy month. 

 

July next........................

 

 

 

 

 

The electric would have been on the ECML in the 20 and 30s if NEW had got their way.

 

I think it is magnicifent looking and Mike is just finishing an O gauge one.

[MJI]

I found around 1980 that vans were used by type rather than where from.

 

Siphons were different, Newspaper usage.

 

Parcels trains appeared to be a mix of BR CCT GUV BG, LMS BG, SR PMV CCT  B.

 

After the 4W stock was sidelined the SR bogie vans (NFV) were still seen coupled to GUV (NKV) and BG (NAV / NDV), but so grubby not easy to tell they were blue

[Compound2632]

On 22/12/2021 at 10:36, swampy said:

I remember reading in an article on pooling wagons ( maybe an early MRJ Chris Crofts piece? ), where the author wrote that if you hesitate to put a GWR open with sheet bar and a coal load onto an LMS coal stage, you haven't understood the concept of wagon pooling.  

 

I wonder if that remark was prompted by a photo in one of my Christmas presents, Keith Turton's PO Wagons a fifth collection, p.14, Cricklewood c. 1931. On the coaling stage ramp, there is just such a wagon, a 4-plank with sheet bar and Dean-Churchward brake, no younger than 1902, along with an earlier 4-plank with conventional brakes, 46664, dating from around 1890, and a more modern 5-plank, 111562. All have the 16" G W lettering in use from 1920. But perhaps even more interestingly, between the two 4-plankers is a 3-plank dropside wagon, also in loco coal traffic, carrying the lettering G&SW, quite fresh looking! So, not only a pre-Grouping wagon still in pre-grouping livery  seven or eight years after the Grouping but at the opposite end of the country from its native heath. The other LMS wagons in the photo are both in LMS livery but are of pre-Grouping origin: a Midland D305 dropside wagon 102005, I think it's got the D-shaped numberplate, dating it to 1913 or after; and an ex-LNWR D12 or D13 timber truck 263960, carrying p. way material. Other identifiable wagons are a GN 6-plank, in very shabby GN lettering, 57033, and 5-plank wagon also of pre-Grouping origin but freshly painted in NE livery, 446149 - ex-GC?

 

This set me thinking about the proportion of pre-Grouping wagons one would see at a given date in the Grouping period. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1, gives the totals for the big four wagon fleets at 31 December 1922, 1931, 1939, and 1946. The total number of wagons built by the LMS from 1923 up to each of these dates can be found by a bit if tedious adding-up from Essery & Morgan, The LMS Wagon. At the end of 1931, 66% of LMS wagons were of pre-Grouping origin; by the end of 1939, 48%, and by the end of 1946, 38%. I suspect that figures for the LNER would be similar or perhaps higher. That should give pause for thought to anyone modelling the railways of the 1930s - a popular period. At least half your railway company-owned wagons should be pre-grouping types, though pretty much all of 20th-century build.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Compound2632

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, stewartingram said:

Small point - that ex Hornby class 21 runs as a light engine? But with a class B not G headcode? I think Sir is heading for Sturday morning detention!

 

Stewart

Quite right Stewart,

 

I should have turned it the other way round.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[stewartingram]

That's ok Sir, we'll let you off the detention this time. Just write out a hundred times " I must remember to check the headcode"

 

Stewart 

[Tony Wright]

56 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

That's ok Sir, we'll let you off the detention this time. Just write out a hundred times " I must remember to check the headcode"

 

Stewart 

Will do, Stewart,

 

As long as you remember to write 100 times 'Saturday has two 'a's'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks for all the recent comments.

 

As is well known, I invite instructive, constructive criticism. That way I learn.

 

Many of my posts ask questions. And, unless one is prepared to receive an answer that might not be entirely complimentary, then don't ask the question. 

 

I'd like to think my modelling is 'pragmatic'. There is a (very) practical limit to what I can achieve, even with considerable help. My knowledge of freight workings for my period should be much better, but it isn't. I'm happy for folk to enlighten me (hence the questions) and I'll try to act upon that enlightenment. However, if goods trains look reasonably 'right' (and visitors think so, too) then I take that pragmatic view.

 

I certainly don't believe that critical comments should be dismissed, or ignored. We live in a dreadful age (in my view) where, in not even extreme cases, folk are 'cancelled' for daring to promulgate an alternative view. Some things appear to be so sacrosanct that they cannot possibly be criticised; nonsense in my view.

 

As for the 'Ridding' of Yorkshire. Please don't; it's God's own country and the home of my paternal family.

[mullie]

Had a catch up on this thread over Christmas, as usual a ripping and informative read. I don't post very often but have been busy building what started as a lockdown project, now named Upbech Drove. 

 

Pretty much everything in this photo is scratch built, track is PCB as that is what I had during the first lockdown, track plan created on Templot. Trees are sea foam.

 

 

The Claud is Hornby, weathered and converted to EM with Gibson wheels. The couplings on the coaching stock will be converted to S&W mk1 adapted for remote uncoupling.

 

 

The layout including fiddle yard is just over five feet long by one foot.

 

Martyn

[Tony Wright]

July was a splendid month on LB......

 

Good friend Dave Hunt donated some MR locos and stock he'd made/painted in the '70s (mostly from scratch). 

 

 

 

 

 

These were some of the most-beautiful models I've ever had the privilege of photographing. 

 

All in all, they made well over £1,000 for CRUK. Thanks Dave and thanks Al.

 

At least I was able to show that red could be applied to more-modern stock..........

 

 

Not so elegant, but still rather jolly! I built this DJH 'Princess Coronation' which Geoff Haynes painted. 

 

 

I bought a Bachmann Fairburn tank from Robert Carroll, detailed it, renumbered it and then Geoff Haynes weathered it.

 

I have a picture of this actual loco running on the MR/M&GNR section. 

 

Friend Richard Irven brought some GC items along.

 

 

Including this lovely 4-6-0 and carriages.

 

In July, I collected dozens of models to sell on behalf of a widow. Many were very good-looking, but most didn't work. No matter, Just a few days spent in the workshop, and eventually all went.

 

They included...........

 

 

A lovely Dave Bradwell J27.

 

 

A beautiful K4.

 

 

And two exquisite John Edgson-scratch-built GNR tanks. 

 

One privilege I have with regard to finding new homes for collections is that I give myself first refusal........ Which I did with three from the collection, actually buying them.

 

 

Including this DJH-built WD. A dud runner, I sorted it out and weathered it. It's since been sold-on. 

 

 

And this rather nice Craftsman C12. With its running sorted, new pick-ups made, it was too tempting.

 

 

As was this London Road J6. Again, a bit of a stutterer, but not now.

 

Almost £10,000 was achieved from the sale of the collection, which meant almost £1,000 for CRUK. 

 

No doubt folk will ask of me 'why buy models when you can make (and have, on umpteen occasions) them yourself?'. They're just so nice, even if I don't know who built them. 

 

August tomorrow. 

 

 

[Mark90]

I've been a way for the day and I see quite a few people have kindly commented - thanks to all for your suggestions. I'll briefly respond to a few things below, but I don't want to hijack Tony's thread any further! 

 

10 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Mark,

 

without reading anything, it is easy to point out that three types of wagons would dominate over everything else and should be built in the largest quantities. Mineral wagons, General Merchandise wagons and vans, simply because those three types, made up 80 to 90 percent of all the wagons running on Britain's railways in the steam era. In your time period and location, the products of the LMS group and the LNER group would dominate, with most mineral wagons being ex PO. BR builds would perhaps represent a quarter to a third of one of the two big companies. Last on the list would be the specials, that might represent local conditions on the ground. Otley's status as a market town on the edge of the Dales and the cross country traffic that used lines that are no longer in existence, will point to the right combinations. I wouldn't even bother with ex SR or GWR stuff., though there is nothing wrong with reading the relevant books but they are not a necessity for your project. 

Many thanks, Andrew. You have confirmed my thoughts on what I should focus on building. I've already built a few kits of ex-LNER and LMS origins and will continue in this vein. 

 

9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If the layout is set in BR days, there's no reason to exclude ex-SR and ex-GWR stock, though they would be a small portion of the total.  Any general purpose vans and opens not allocated to specific circuits could and did go anywhere, and might not return to their "home turf" for months on end, if ever.

 

There is no shortage of published pictures of SR standard vans in the far North of Scotland, let alone Yorkshire. Even brake vans wandered, LNER ones regularly being seen in Devon and Cornwall, and Railway Modeller once printed a pic of a 25t Pillbox about as far north as it was possible to get!

 

John

Thanks, John. I agree that a small number of SR/GWR vehicles could be included, and the odd item of rolling stock from further afield will add some interest. 

 

8 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

Headstock's "specials" in the early '50s at Otley will probably have been the through traffic rather than anything locally generated. At that point it was still part of a useful through route from the NE to North Lancashire. The iconic train is probably the ammonia tanks (Heysham-Haverton Hill).

 

See http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/329730/ST

 

https://davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com/pages/david-heys-steam-diesel-photo-collection-94-railways-in-wharfedale

 

https://m.facebook.com/cumbrianrailways/photos/pb.1391210517776083.-2207520000../3183854961844954/?type=3&eid=ARA8zLV8ndpf8Lj_QXPRecA3zq8FPmACWdwg71zQ0URs29dTvW7WQHBxKr3VziJKHugF3o6CUQr84pGF&locale=hi_IN&_rdr

 

There's also this Ilkley thread on here:

 

You may well be aware of these already.

 

Regards

Simon

 

Many thanks Simon. I have previously read through the Ilkley thread and David Hey's site, and the ammonia train is on my list! The other links are new to me and much appreciated. I believe there were also regular block coal and oil trains too. 

 

7 hours ago, jwealleans said:

For your man modelling Otley, photographs are key - have you looked at Britain from Above, for example?   We found when we looked at Grantham that it was a hotbed of Lowmacs (presumably for the Ruston Hornsby traffic).   If copyright permits, I'm sure that if you posted some on this forum you'd be inundated with peoplehelping you to identify them.

 

Excellent suggestion, Jonathan. I will take a look at Britain from above. I've mostly focussed on photographs taken from the line side thus far. 

 

Thanks all, again, for your help! 

 

Mark

[Bucoops]

20 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony, 

Ho, Ho, Ho. Well, I'm not feeling very unwell, I hope I'm not isolating for a flipping cold!

 

 

Andrew, have you done any tests? Nearly all my immediate family (Myself, my wife and daughter, my parents, my mother in law, both sister in laws and one of their husbands) all had new coughs, sore throats, sneezes - pretty much textbook cold symptoms but also this new variant symptoms too. Covid was tearing round my daughter's school in the last week or two of term.

 

Yet every lateral flow and even a couple of PCRs when children in her class tested positive have showed consistently negative. I saw something about an estimate of 50% of "colds" at present are this new variant. Maybe the tests don't work, but with them all negative we have carried on regardless.

[mullie]

27 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Andrew, have you done any tests? Nearly all my immediate family (Myself, my wife and daughter, my parents, my mother in law, both sister in laws and one of their husbands) all had new coughs, sore throats, sneezes - pretty much textbook cold symptoms but also this new variant symptoms too. Covid was tearing round my daughter's school in the last week or two of term.

 

Yet every lateral flow and even a couple of PCRs when children in her class tested positive have showed consistently negative. I saw something about an estimate of 50% of "colds" at present are this new variant. Maybe the tests don't work, but with them all negative we have carried on regardless.

I would agree with all of the above.Take a test to remove any doubt.  I felt rough on the Friday, took a lateral flow at 6am before work another at 5pm after work, both negative. On the Saturday morning my lateral flow showed positive, confirmed by a PCR test, my wife was negative on a PCR. 

 

On the Monday, my wife was negative on a 6am lateral flow, went to work, sent home by 10am, tested positive by lunchtime on a PCR. 

 

We both work in schools so are exposed to it every day and on occasion test every day. We both felt rough for around two weeks and to be honest a month on are still recovering.

 

Take care and stay safe.

 

Martyn

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Andrew, have you done any tests? Nearly all my immediate family (Myself, my wife and daughter, my parents, my mother in law, both sister in laws and one of their husbands) all had new coughs, sore throats, sneezes - pretty much textbook cold symptoms but also this new variant symptoms too. Covid was tearing round my daughter's school in the last week or two of term.

 

Yet every lateral flow and even a couple of PCRs when children in her class tested positive have showed consistently negative. I saw something about an estimate of 50% of "colds" at present are this new variant. Maybe the tests don't work, but with them all negative we have carried on regardless.

  

Good Evening Bu,

 

yes, I'm awaiting the results of the PCR test, Christmas got in the way. I started with symptoms on Thursday morning, there was little I could do two days before Christmas day. The lateral flow test might be a bit hit and miss with this variant, the NHS said PCR. The period between infection and symptoms is about two or three days and the symptoms are all over with in four days. The latest thinking from excellent Dr John Campbell is this variant is acting so fast that it is out competing the common cold and everything is happening so quickly we are all going to get it in a very short period of time. There's no point worrying about it, the symptoms are mild so just get it out of the way and go shopping.

 

3 hours ago, Mark90 said:

I've been a way for the day and I see quite a few people have kindly commented - thanks to all for your suggestions. I'll briefly respond to a few things below, but I don't want to hijack Tony's thread any further! 

 

Many thanks, Andrew. You have confirmed my thoughts on what I should focus on building. I've already built a few kits of ex-LNER and LMS origins and will continue in this vein. 

 

Thanks, John. I agree that a small number of SR/GWR vehicles could be included, and the odd item of rolling stock from further afield will add some interest. 

 

Many thanks Simon. I have previously read through the Ilkley thread and David Hey's site, and the ammonia train is on my list! The other links are new to me and much appreciated. I believe there were also regular block coal and oil trains too. 

 

Excellent suggestion, Jonathan. I will take a look at Britain from above. I've mostly focussed on photographs taken from the line side thus far. 

 

Thanks all, again, for your help! 

 

Mark

 

One thing I forgot to mention was the percentage of unfitted to fitted stock. The former greatly outnumbered the latter in 1950 and most fitted wagons belonged to the LNER. That proportion would change somewhat by 1955. It being hard to successfully represent both time periods on one layout.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Headstock

[MJI]

Done some more wagon digging.

 

Not in 4mm kit so far

 

Ex GWR early BR ply van, like Ratio but ply

Ex LMS early BR planked sliding door van (similar to old Mainline model) bit like Parkside but extra trussing

LMS Iron Stone hopper, 3D plan available

[Headstock]

9 minutes ago, MJI said:

Done some more wagon digging.

 

Not in 4mm kit so far

 

Ex GWR early BR ply van, like Ratio but ply

Ex LMS early BR planked sliding door van (similar to old Mainline model) bit like Parkside but extra trussing

LMS Iron Stone hopper, 3D plan available

 

Good evening Martin,

 

I've seen the 3d hopper, an essential piece if your planning an Iron ore train. I hope the early BR sliding door van is not too similar to the original mainline model, the later has rather funny doors and is rather stunted, like a tent pole hammered into the ground.

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Headstock

[MJI]

11 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Martin,

 

I've seen the 3d hopper, an essential piece if your planning an Iron ore train. I hope the early BR sliding door van is not too similar to the original mainline model, the later has rather funny doors and is rather stunted, like a tent pole hammered into the ground.

 

 

Looks a bit like that but that is very toy like.

 

Seeing this favourite site from HMRSPaul

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsvan

 

Still lots of variations but similar to this

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsvan/h3c438548#h338e2308

and this

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsvan/h2fe0fc10#h2fe0fc10

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

BR only built sliding-door vans to LMS and LNER designs; their own standard designs, when adopted, were based on cupboard-door GWR pattern sides with corrugated steel ends.

 

Bachmann have done some good ex-LNER ones, but their current misbegotten ex-LMS example is arguably inferior to the Mainline version! Best bet for those is the venerable Dapol/Airfix body on a better underframe or the Ratio kit. 

 

A decent 1930s LMS fitted van is a glaring omission from the RTR scene. (Are you listening Oxford Rail, Rapido, Accurascale et al ?)

 

Older (unfitted) LMS vans are reasonably well covered as Cambrian kits and there's quite a lot of scope for cross-kitting to produce other types.

 

John

Edited December 27, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[LNER4479]

Compliments of the season, Tony - and to Mo as well. Enjoying the look back over the year - and the ongoing wagon / goods trains debate. Will post a few thoughts on the latter shortly; in the meantime, knowing how you like to see people making things, I thought I'd post this (with apologies to those who have already seen it on the HotN thread)

 

Constructed over the last two (and a bit) days as part of my seasonal challenge. Last year, I built a Stanier 12-wheel sleeper car (on Boxing day); this is the earlier LMS equivalent. I actually challenged myself to build two over the last two days but that proved a little too ambitious and the other one is at underframe only stage. Obviously(!), some way to go before it's properly 'finished' but I've commited myself to build a few such vehicles over the next few years as I wish to portray the night time services as well as day time ones, not least because these trains gave much gainful employment to my beloved 'Duchesses'. A rake of a dozen* such vehicles over Shap is going to need one at their very best.

(*yes I know it could easily be 16-17 on the real thing but 12 will be about the practical limit on the layout).

 

More details of the build over the last two days start here.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by LNER4479

[Tony Wright]

What about August?

 

 

The one EM Gauge loco I sold for the widow was this Martin Finney A3 (builder/painter unknown). 

 

Sandra Orpen bought if for Retford. At first it ran very well, until part of the motion fell off (when I was there). I managed to repair it.

 

However, I'm now told that the friction-fit drivers have slipped on their axles and it'll need a new set of driving wheels (Markits, I'm sure). I'm sorry, Sandra.

 

Is this yet another example of a 'glass case' model; very pretty, but not much cop as a working loco, especially on huge layout like Retford? 

 

None of the locos from the collection worked properly at source. I managed to get most working, or sold off cheaply those which didn't, the new owners being quite capable of getting them to run. 

 

I've said this so many times, but why are so many 'professionally-built' locomotives such poor runners? They look fine inside a cabinet, but ask them to run and it's a catalogue of horrors - tight spots, dud pick-ups, jerky running, frequent derailments, an inability to negotiate even generous curves or, worse still, an inability to run at all. Yet, folks have handed over good money for such things. Don't they know? Don't they care? Don't they have layouts? 

 

Another collection came my way to sell in August, this time on behalf of two surviving daughters, their late father having been a widower for some time..........

 

Most locos didn't run very well to begin with, but, in the end, I managed to get them to perform, and sold everything; including three to myself......

 

 

Built from a DJH kit (builder unknown), it ran like a lame dog. After curing a tight spot (rods off and properly broached) and fitting new pick-ups, it now runs really well. It then featured on the programme I made for BRM's last virtual exhibition (of which, more later). 

 

Its rake of mineral empties now contains fewer ex-PO wagons.

 

A slightly wonky handrail on the offside smoke deflector is typical of 9Fs. 

 

As I delivered the A3 to Retford, I also collected a Crownline J17 I'd built, which Tom Foster had weathered...........................

 

 

I'd painted it.

 

 

But brilliant weathering like this brings a loco to life. Thanks Tom. 

 

 

It's passing another loco I bought from the second collection, a Millholme Ivatt 4MT.

 

 

A bit of a tweak to get it going, but now a fine runner. She's got the road after the J17 heads off towards Bourne, and now heads towards Castle Bytham, taking the single line token with her.

 

Another loco I bought was this A1............

 

 

Again, a bit of a flop running-wise, but not now; another loco which featured in my programme. 

 

Bob Wood brought along some interesting stuff......

 

 

A Millholme 'Dreadnought'.

 

 

And a scratch-built L&Y 0-8-2T. 

 

Finally, Graham Moorfoot brought along the smallest 'loco' ever to run on LB...........

 

 

A Bachmann Wickham trolley.

 

It's seen alongside far more typical LB motive power.

 

September later. 

 

 

 

 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

BR only built sliding-door vans to LMS and LNER designs; their own standard designs, when adopted, were based on cupboard-door GWR pattern sides with corrugated steel ends.

 

Bachmann have done some good ex-LNER ones, but their current misbegotten ex-LMS example is arguably inferior to the Mainline version! Best bet for those is the venerable Dapol/Airfix body on a better underframe or the Ratio kit. 

 

A decent 1930s LMS fitted van is a glaring omission from the RTR scene. (Are you listening Oxford Rail, Rapido, Accurascale et al ?)

 

Older (unfitted) LMS vans are reasonably well covered as Cambrian kits and there's quite a lot of scope for cross-kitting to produce other types.

 

John

 

Good morning John,

 

Bachmann's current version of the stunted LMS van, is a good contender for worst rip off  being sold to the Railway modeler. The Dapol version is much better, usable but still a little short. I have resided a few to produced other diagrams and sort out the end profile on the Parkside Fruit van. Oh the irony, that the tallest to the eves of all the 13 ton vans seen on Britain's railways, is the shortest in RTR form. It deserves a special place in the pantheon of model railway dysfunctionality, alongside long wheelbase 24 ton hoppers and short wheelbase Horseboxes. The former Ratio kit is still the best LMS van of those readily available. The Cambrian kits need a little more work, the range also covers fitted and piped versions, not just the unfitted variants, though you need to supply your own vac gear and pipes.

 

Number one for worst van currently on sale for lots of dosh?

 

https://oliviastrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/147126643337803A1.jpg

Edited December 27, 2021 by Headstock

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning John,

 

Bachmann's current version of the stunted LMS van, is a good contender for worst rip off  being sold to the Railway modeler. The Dapol version is much better, usable but still a little short. I have resided a few to produced other diagrams and sort out the end profile on the Parkside Fruit van. Oh the irony, that the tallest to the eves of all the 13 ton vans seen on Britain's railways, is the shortest in RTR form. It deserves a special place in the pantheon of model railway dysfunctionality, alongside long wheelbase 24 ton hoppers and short wheelbase Horseboxes. The former Ratio kit is still the best LMS van of those readily available. The Cambrian kits need a little more work, the range also covers fitted and piped versions, not just the unfitted variants, though you need to supply your own vac gear and pipes.

 

Number one for worst van currently on sale for lots of dosh?

 

https://oliviastrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/147126643337803A1.jpg

Thanks, Andrew,

 

The worst of the rest on my Really Dire List,

 

Airfix/Dapol/Hornby: 10' wb 7-planks (stretched to fit standard underframe). Fortunately, a better alternative is available from Bachmann, even if they aren't above applying Victorian/Edwardian-era PO liveries to the 1923 design....

 

Mainline/Bachmann: LMS Cattle wagons (shrunk to fit standard underframe). In their defence, I think Bachmann has stopped making them....

 

Everybody from Hornby Dublo onwards: ALL GWR vans (widened to fit over standard underframes).

 

Nearly everybody: The dog's breakfast that is the RTR tank wagon. Oxford's recent 12-tonner isn't perfect but is easily the closest to it so far. For me, it's an acceptable "layout wagon" as-is and can be improved further. Bachmann's Anchor mount creates a good initial impression but is a bit of a mongrel made half-way between two prototypical sizes. The best of the rest (by far) is the ancient ex-Airfix (now Hornby) 20-tonner, which says rather a lot about the rest....

 

John

Edited December 27, 2021 by Dunsignalling
Tidying!

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

What about August?

 

 

The one EM Gauge loco I sold for the widow was this Martin Finney A3 (builder/painter unknown). 

 

Sandra Orpen bought if for Retford. At first it ran very well, until part of the motion fell off (when I was there). I managed to repair it.

 

However, I'm now told that the friction-fit drivers have slipped on their axles and it'll need a new set of driving wheels (Markits, I'm sure). I'm sorry, Sandra.

 

Is this yet another example of a 'glass case' model; very pretty, but not much cop as a working loco, especially on huge layout like Retford? 

 

None of the locos from the collection worked properly at source. I managed to get most working, or sold off cheaply those which didn't, the new owners being quite capable of getting them to run. 

 

I've said this so many times, but why are so many 'professionally-built' locomotives such poor runners? They look fine inside a cabinet, but ask them to run and it's a catalogue of horrors - tight spots, dud pick-ups, jerky running, frequent derailments, an inability to negotiate even generous curves or, worse still, an inability to run at all. Yet, folks have handed over good money for such things. Don't they know? Don't they care? Don't they have layouts? 

 

 

Didn't Roy say that Retford was a "loco killer" or words to that effect? 

[pete55]

23 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Didn't Roy say that Retford was a "loco killer" or words to that effect?  

 

Yes he did say words to that effect, and the proof was often  seen with visitors locos struggling after a lap or two of the GN main line.

Even his own builds sometimes required a new gearbox. I remember his P2 Mons Meg which I believe needed two over a period of a few years.

One of the basic problems with friction fit driving wheels is that builders will insist on fitting and removing them a few times during the build, rather than fitting once and for all.