Heljan LNER Tango 2-8-0

[teaky]

Since there is no 'standard wagon' why not think about using mass - which is well characterised - and gravity, which works well everywhere. I do a simple lift test: loco on straight and level track lifts a weight box by means of a thread running over a pinpoint axle in a fold up W-iron (from a compensated wagon set). This can be used to estimate both drawbar pull as a force and the force required to start any given sample of vehicles. Results:

 

 

 

Now the difference between the Hornby O1 and the Heljan O2 of 8g force, would lead me to estimate that the O2 will pull 24 more wagons, as my wagon fleet averages 'three per gram force' to start. For such a simple characterisation, a close estimate to the '20 wagon' difference that Tony Wright reports in post 301 above.

Your lift test does provide a good comparative test but I was simply seeking a method of translating Tony's 70 wagon train into a weight which anyone could then translate into a number of wagons regardless of what they were made of.  As I said, it was an aside and merely served to satisfy my curiosity.

[Nimbus]

I've just been losing myself here.

 

and discovered this:

 

 

A bit of a photographic missing link, I understand. This individual is 63943, with a GN cab!

HTH with the next iteration!

 

The Nim.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Nimbus

[Market65]

That is a very valuable photo'. Thank you for posting it.

 

With regards,

 

Rob.

[Woodcock29]

 

 

My LNER version arrived this week. It seems to run ok and has had a reasonable period of running in now. Last night I had it hauling 73 empties - a mixture of Bachmann and kit built PO wagons. The kit built wagons would all be slightly heavier than the Bachmann wagons although I haven't weighed any of them. Interestingly the Bachmann O4 I tried on this train did haul it but with some slipping on start up but once it got going it was ok and I have 3 ft min radius curves. My Crownline P1, although lighter in weight than the O2/3 hauled this train quite ok. A Hornby O1 struggled. My kit built O4 and O2/2 would have no problem and are probably heavier than the Heljan O2/3.

 

Nothing fell off during transit to Australia but later the day it arrived one of what I suppose are the injectors under the cab fell off - fortunately I noticed it and it is now glued back on (just been back out to the shed whilst writing this and noticed the other injector has disappeared!).

 

The chimney, although too tall for this version is not too bad on mine so it might be useable with a bit of mild filing to remove the sprue marks on the top. I'll either need to slice a bit of the stem of the chimney out or manage to get the top off (it is a separate part but seems to be well glued on) and file the top of the stem down by about 1mm. Alternatively I might fit a whole new chimney.

 

The smokebox dart whilst quite neat is not seated in far enough and needs to be sliced off, the hole drilled out and then be fitted back on - set further in.

 

As indicated before from viewing photos it has long tender handrails on the right hand side and short ones on the left - so I'll need to fit long ones on the left hand side.

 

One curious fact about the tender - the front and rear coal plates don't reach right out to the stepped out coping plates. I suspect this is an error - from perusing various volumes of Yeadon looking at stepped 4200 gallon tenders it appears this is an error. I checked a friends O2/4 last night and his flush sided tender has the coal plates reaching the sides so I'm thinking that Heljan have just copied the top of this version in dimensions. I have a query over the location of the rear coal plate on the stepped tender - it is immediately in front of the water pickup dome, nearer to where they were relocated in the mid 50s under BR so maybe in this respect this tender is meant for a BR period? I'll need to alter that an make a new one that fits over the water pickup dome where it should be located but at the same time I can make it full width. Another point about the tender - it has right angled corners at the front top of the side sheets - from all the photos I have seen the corners should be curved - another job for the file!

 

The motion brackets are separate fittings either side, I originally supposed they might be one fitting going right across the chassis. Mine has the one on the left hand side sticking out too far and this needs to be refitted if I can delicately remove it? As the motion bracket is also part of the slidebars it means the slidebars stick out too far at the rear. The slide bars also stick out too far at the rear on the right hand side suggesting that motion bracket should also be pushed in slightly. Incidentally one side is in forward gear and one is in reverse! On mine the left hand side valve rod was set above the pivot of the expansion link and the right hand one is set below the pivot of the expansion link. These are not in anyway connected to the expansion and link and do have a reversing linkage which can be twisted so that the right hand side rod is now also in forward gear. The return cranks seem to be almost centrally located and not set with the forward lean that they should have. I found I could gently push these around into a forward set so hopefully they stay that way. I might need to carefully tighten the hex screws that hold them in place. BEWARE though the coupling rods are quite malleable and deform easily so handle with great care.

 

By the way also whilst writing this I have gone and dismantled the loco - BEWARE I broke one of the very fragile wires coming from the motor - not a problem I was going to rebuild the drawbar anyway to close couple it.

 

It comes fitted with very neat screw couplings and the hook and bar couplings are in a separate packet to fit.

 

The paint finish overall in my opinion is not good, just like the LMS Garratt it seems to have a plastic look to the finish - I think it is painted though as the finish looks marginally different to the unpainted footsteps under the cab which definitely look just like plastic.

 

However, despite these issues (certainly the quality control aspects shouldn't have arisen) it does look like an O2/3 and is not the debacle that Hornby's Book Law was. I guess provided they run okay the majority of modellers will be happy with theirs.

 

It will get a repaint and be numbered/lettered in pre-war shaded letters.

 

Woodcock29

[gr.king]

I've just been losing myself here.

 

and discovered this:

 

 

A bit of a photographic missing link, I understand. This individual is 63943, with a GN cab!

HTH with the next iteration!

 

The Nim.

I believe BrushVeteran already has that picture, which is certainly a good one, although it doesn't show the firehole door which is a little annoying.

[45568]

My pre-order with Hattons is in the second expected delivery. Can anyone suggest a suitable replacement chimney casting for a BR late O2/3?

Still looking forward to this, but a lot of fingers are crossed!!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[wilks]

I picked up a BR early crest O2 a couple of weeks ago and finally ran it on Haddon Bank (Chelmsford MRC) layout last week. It ran very sweetly and attracted much attention. It does have some very fine details - handrails and valve gear are finer than most other rtr models. I have raised a few issues directly with Heljan so hopefully they can improve what is a very good model into an even better one. Good customer feedback is important if we want our manufacturers to improve and continue making fine models.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... BEWARE I broke one of the very fragile wires coming from the motor - not a problem I was going to rebuild the drawbar anyway to close couple it..

 

 Present circumstances prevent doing very much on the model railway - I haven't operated for four days and am in cold turkey - but I would truly appreciate a description of the 'how to' and what you find in performing the close coupling. My first look at the drawbar had me thinking "ah, sturdy enough left as is, probably fragile if I muck around with the arrangements" and you have rather confirmed that thought.

 

I have to say that the immediate need on the model for my taste is close coupling and the addition of a fall plate. The freight engine filth will pretty much do the trick elsewhere...

[3737]

After having glued my brake block back on the O2 I found 2 more brake blocks that were loose in de plastic packaging. I will glue these back on asap and check the fitting of other brake blocks at the same time.

I also filed the chimney in shape. It looked as if a tiger had tried to bite its top rim off.

Although a RTR loco like this should not have the issues I experienced, they are after all minor issues that can easily be remedied.

 

Yesterday I let the O2 stretch her legs on our BMB modular layout. She performed flawlessly for several hours.

Here on our Dutch forum you can find an impression of the day we, 9 fellow modellers and I, enjoyed together yesterday:

http://forum.beneluxspoor.net/index.php/topic,64485.msg3221639108/topicseen.html#msg3221639108

 

OK, it's not all LNER and not 100% prototypical either and it's still under construction, but it was great fun nevertheless.

 

Leen.

Edited February 7, 2016 by 3737

[Woodcock29]

I have just had an hour to fiddle around with the disassembled O2/3 and have found that I can wiggle the motion brackets loose. To insert them further you need to cut a piece off the front corner of the piece that goes into the chassis as the slot is angled such that it is narrower at the back hence you can't just push the brackets further in. I've just done that - pushing the left hand side in further than I needed to push the right hand side in. I have glued them back in with 5 min epoxy and hope that does the trick. It is a bit fiddly. The overall width across the brackets from one side to the other should be around 34.5mm I reckon. This is best done with the motor and its heavy base support removed.

 

The top cover of the motor and the heavy base both need to be removed before the plastic footplate can be removed. Although it is possible to flex the footplate and slide it off forwards with the motor and motor base in place. The footplate is removed after the boiler and cab have been unscrewed.

 

I have discovered that the wires are actually in a plug that slots into the front of the drawbar and can be removed after the drawbar is unscrewed from the loco so it is possible to remove the wire connection from the drawbar to separate engine and tender.

 

Might a be a few weeks before I have time to repaint it.

 

I must say I always find this sort of thing fun! Not that I should have had to do this in the first place however and it is distracting me from building brass GN coaches!

 

Woodcock29

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 Leen, Woodcock 29, These hints and tips are much appreciated, filed away for when I can get at mine.

 ...The overall width across the brackets from one side to the other should be around 34.5mm I reckon...
 

FWIW my inclination would be to make this a pragmatic decision rather than to a dimension, scale or not; as long as it looks right enough and works reliably, that'll do!

[pete55]

I have discovered that the wires are actually in a plug that slots into the front of the drawbar and can be removed after the drawbar is unscrewed from the loco so it is possible to remove the wire connection from the drawbar to separate engine and tender.

 

 

 

Woodcock29

Could you explain a bit more about this......have unscrewed my drawbar, but what looks like a plug still appears not to want to move!

 

Edit: Have solved this thanks.....what an odd arrangement!

Edited February 8, 2016 by pete55

[31A]

Had a message from Hatton's today to say that my O1 (3922 O2/4 63975 in BR black with flush tender with late crest) is now expected on or after 7th March - they had previously said expected 22nd February.  That'll give me a bit longer to save up, then!

[DougN]

Ok some experiences from Victoria! (Woodcock is in South Australia! ) my LNER version turned up about a week ago. Placed on track and basically ran poorly compared to others out of the box! So SRman dropped over the other week, he and I had a review of the loco. We decided that the thick layer of blackening on the wheels was one of the causes of the poor running. As I have had little time over the last week or so. (Yesterday was the BRMA meeting at my place!) today I decided that it was time for a good run on the rolling road. Not wanting to leave the room after previous problems on the layout a month ago. I had also 2 other trains running on the dcc. After about 40minutes each way the loco has improved but still has some issues with binding valve gear. I did notice on connecting rod was straight and the other was curved. So now both are curved out! I also slightly angled out the slid bars which did seem to be ok but as I noticed the excess side play on the front axle this can only be a good thing. The next thing was the pickups which I gently added to the pressure to the back of the wheel treads.

 

Running is improved and I think I may have to add a little extra weight to the front of the loco as the front axle does seem to like riding up on the curves of my layout. I think there is also a need to get the pony to do some work as I find it is too light and can derail on imperfect track. I prefer Hornby's engineering here but it does look strange head on.

 

One thing after a number of circuits of my layout and the running on the rolling road was I cleaned the wheels which had picked up an amazing amount of crud, just to prove a point on the front driver. This did not have any build up so I suspect that the loco is primarily running as a an 0-6-0 on the back drivers. I have not looked into this any further but the axle doesn't seem to be doing much of the work contributing to the front end being light on the track and needing something to produce a bit more steering.

 

On the finish, I'm with Woodcock, it is ok but as the report card says could do better. The improvements I can see are

1 glue the handrails in.. The boiler side slide out on mine I noticed this when handling on and off and could do with a coat of paint

2 paint out the PB pickup strips, they are very obvious

3 paint out the axle ends, I think could do with a touch of filler to look like the real thing

4 weathering will tone down the plastic look.

 

Maybe when I am painting another loco and have the airbrush out I will use humbrol mat black to the smokebox, tender top, footplate, just to take the sheen off the loco.

 

Over all I would rate this below Hornby and Bachmann for finish and running. Though I would still buy another Heljan loco as I believe they will improve as their design and fabrication improves to steam loco's for the uk out line.

Edited February 21, 2016 by DougN

[cctransuk]

Sorry - that's not orange / yellow; that's cream with a dose of railway muck - I know, I was there.

 

Derby Works Horticultural Show - also known to us spotty 'erks as Derby Open Day - was the opportunity in the East Midlands to see locos ex-paintshop.

 

Suffice to say, nothing came out with yellow numbers - always cream; which became more yellowy as muck attached itself and the varnish yellowed.

 

It ultimately faded to white as the varnish deteriorated and the sun bleached it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/21281762441/in/photostream/

 

An interesting illustration of how lettering yellows with time and wear.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

My O2/3 is imminently going into works to correct its major appearance shortcoming, the loco to tender spacing and lack of a fallplate. I have decided to run it with a Bachmann LNER GS tender model.

This brings no fewer than four benefits:

eliminates the excessive mass of the Heljan tender;

fixes the incorrect tender hand rail problem at a stroke;

makes it easier to arrange scale loco to tender coupling distance without modifying the drawbar;

allows me to dismantle and experiment with chopping out the mazak as practise for dealing with the GN pattern tenders when the O2/1 and O2/2 versions arrive.

 

On the last, this proved to be  piece of cake, the huge lump of metal is retained by only two screws.

Edited March 2, 2016 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[Ian Hargrave]

The second tranche have arrived ....Rails Newsletter this pm.

[No Decorum]

The second tranche have arrived ....Rails Newsletter this pm.

My LNER O2/4 is already winging its way to me from Invicta. I expect it tomorrow. In no time at all I’ll be asking about the O2/2s. Really, some people!

[BrushVeteran]

The O2/1's and O2/2's have not yet been given a production slot although most of the tooling has been completed. I will try and keep developments on these updated as and when something positive happens.

[No Decorum]

The O2/1's and O2/2's have not yet been given a production slot although most of the tooling has been completed. I will try and keep developments on these updated as and when something positive happens.

Aha! O2/1s as well. Most of the tooling completed. That is excellent news, unless it isn’t news and has escaped my befuddled memory. I hope something will turn up in GN goods grey. If you can, please hurry them up before they’re caught by another price increase!

 

(Whisper: “Gresley O1”.)

[jonny777]

I now have four of the current batch of O2s, all early or late crest BR variants; and while there are a few minor issues with the locos out of the box, the fact that I now possess model examples of a loco that made the most frequent appearances of all on the line passing my back garden until late 1963, hauling iron ore trains to Scunthorpe, has ended over half a century of 'wish-listing' for me.

 

They capture the look of the original, and that is 90% of the success of a model as far as I am concerned.

 

Thanks to Grahame Wareham and Tony Wright for all the effort and research they have put in over the last 3 years or so and I hope the sales of this loco make a decent profit for Heljan, who I congratulate for having the bravery to produce a less glamorous goods loco with a relatively restricted sphere of operation.

 

Although they may be a few more years away, I look forward to the release of the O2/1 and O2/2 variants.

 

Thankyou to everyone involved with this model. You have made an O2 enthusiast very happy.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

(Whisper: “Gresley O1”.)

That's what my intended O2/1 purchase is hopefully going to metamorphose into, despite the small resulting inaccuracies. Swapping the crank axle wheelset to no3 leaving the gear on no2 axle, carving of footplating, cuboid form steam pipe casings, and letting in a modified cylinder block from B1 or 8F and a motion parts assemblage from same, should achieve a reasonable facsimile.

[BrushVeteran]

I now have four of the current batch of O2s, all early or late crest BR variants; and while there are a few minor issues with the locos out of the box, the fact that I now possess model examples of a loco that made the most frequent appearances of all on the line passing my back garden until late 1963, hauling iron ore trains to Scunthorpe, has ended over half a century of 'wish-listing' for me.

 

They capture the look of the original, and that is 90% of the success of a model as far as I am concerned.

 

Thanks to Grahame Wareham and Tony Wright for all the effort and research they have put in over the last 3 years or so and I hope the sales of this loco make a decent profit for Heljan, who I congratulate for having the bravery to produce a less glamorous goods loco with a relatively restricted sphere of operation.

 

Although they may be a few more years away, I look forward to the release of the O2/1 and O2/2 variants.

 

Thankyou to everyone involved with this model. You have made an O2 enthusiast very happy.

Thank-you

 

Its always a pleasure to hear gratifying comments regarding a product new to the market no matter who the manufacturer is. Heljan have listened to the reasoning for producing this loco and stood by the development team with their requests for alterations and improvements during the rather longer than normal gestation period. The fact that this has been a complicated minefield of detail differences has not deterred the determination to get this model to the marketplace. To me personally it has been uphill all the way......just what the O2 was designed for!.... and today I heard one fitted with Howes sound for the first time whilst I was in the shop. Bryan has done a good job there.......very convincing!  It sounded great and to me hopefully those of you that opt for sound will get a similar experience.

 

Hopefully further variants of the O2 will be able to follow-on from these first two releases in a reasonable timescale and any constructive feedback will be noted and acted upon if at all possible within the tooling that is already in place.

[No Decorum]

That's what my intended O2/1 purchase is hopefully going to metamorphose into, despite the small resulting inaccuracies. Swapping the crank axle wheelset to no3 leaving the gear on no2 axle, carving of footplating, cuboid form steam pipe casings, and letting in a modified cylinder block from B1 or 8F and a motion parts assemblage from same, should achieve a reasonable facsimile.

The very best of luck with that; it would be way beyond me. I’d love to see the result. Meanwhile I’ll just bang my bottle on my high chair and scream until Heljan obliges.

[No Decorum]

Thank-you

 

Its always a pleasure to hear gratifying comments regarding a product new to the market no matter who the manufacturer is. Heljan have listened to the reasoning for producing this loco and stood by the development team with their requests for alterations and improvements during the rather longer than normal gestation period. The fact that this has been a complicated minefield of detail differences has not deterred the determination to get this model to the marketplace. To me personally it has been uphill all the way......just what the O2 was designed for!.... and today I heard one fitted with Howes sound for the first time whilst I was in the shop. Bryan has done a good job there.......very convincing!  It sounded great and to me hopefully those of you that opt for sound will get a similar experience.

 

Hopefully further variants of the O2 will be able to follow-on from these first two releases in a reasonable timescale and any constructive feedback will be noted and acted upon if at all possible within the tooling that is already in place.

I mentioned to my daughter that a heavy goods loco was being produced in four variants.

 

“Are you going to get them all?”

 

“Of course.”

 

(Rolls eyes.)

 

’Tis brilliant what you’ve persuaded Heljan to do.