Heljan LNER Tango 2-8-0

[2750Papyrus]

Ordered LNER version from Rails yesterday lunchtime, delivered 8.25 this morning, so Rails staff not that exhausted!  My 4th Heljan model (BG, baby Deltic and Metropolitan) and very impressed with all of them.

 

On unpacking O2, LH lamp bracket bent but straightened OK, numerals on one side of cab perhaps not quite in line.  No problems with handrails.  Growled a little on first running but quitened quickly to give smooth and quiet running an both directions, pulls 9 coaches up my 1:35 3ft radius gradients OK so no lack of power. 

 

Pony truck wheels dropped out on 2nd circuit but clipped back in easily.  Only problem so far is front drivers have a tendency to derail.  The driving wheels have more side play than I am used to, B2Bs OK (without starting an argument).  I suspect that the pony wheels may be lifting the drivers and that the suspension link may need a tweak - but can't experiment further as two cross-legged dogs are demanding their walk!

[jonny777]

Nothing so far from Hattons; but given their move to the new retail outlet I am not surprised they don't have time for opening newly delivered boxes.

 

Model Railways Direct don't appear to have any either. Maybe batches are allocated to individual shops?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Nothing. A number come off the production line with the same fault and all get boxed into the same big brown cardboard box which therefore end up being delivered to one retailer.

That's one potential explanation. If we are completely open minded in considering all the potential causes, then transit damage to that box must be admitted (significant drop from a height, or vibromassage in the back of a vehicle with hard suspension, for example) and test equipment and/or procedure failure at the retailer, must also be considered. If you want to know the truth, it is important to approach the situation with no assumptions.

[45568]

I have a pre-order with Hattons, going back years to when these were first announced. My choice is not in the first shipment, but I am now concerned, given that the big H does not test locos prior to despatch, I could get caught out with a duffer! So would anyone who does get one please keep us informed on this thread?

 I eventually cancelled the H Garratt, I did see one!

 The O2 is intrinsic to my layout, .....

Please help,

 Tentative in Oz,

 Peter C.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Do their European range have the same issues? ...

 I see a modest amount of RTR HO, various of the European brands,  though so far no Heljan. Honestly guys, it's no better than the the general run of current OO product in my perception. Small adjustments to optimise pick up and track holding, some running at modest speed forward and reverse to quiet mechanisms and optimise traction, and eliminate any slight lumpiness or unevenness. This shouldn't come as a surprise, the better OO we have had in the last fifteen years is solidly based on mechanism technique developed in HO.

[Ian Hargrave]

Kernow have 3 of each in stock ....in comparison with yesterday's reported stock levels at Rails.If you seek a mail order retailer who tests before despatch,then Hereford Model Centre (who are Heljan stockists) provide this service.Their prices are competitive and they are reliable.They have a presence at all major model railway events.They will be at Doncaster on 13th/14th February.

[Ian Hargrave]

It would not be the first time over tightened screws caused a model to run bad, or worse cause unneeded strain on the drive and motor. This would certainly cause the motor to rapidly overheat and die out.

The early descriptions look like a repeat of some of the Garret issues only on a larger scale. Do their European range have the same issues? Even if these models are cheaper than them, it does not seem to compare well with other big UK outline freight locos, being a little more expensive yet not as refined.

Taking this a little further and knowing that Heljan have been well regarded for many years in HO Continental outline,I have just taken a quick look at Heljan DK's online catalogue. Their Danish steam outline DSB Litra E991 is priced at 499.93 EUR.....and very handsome it looks.

 

I think we need again to ask ourselves some painful questions.Are we prepared to pay that rate.....double plus in the case of theO2 for perhaps better quality ? Everything manufactured is down to a price.It has to be that way.Transit problems...well.maybe.Component and assembly issues....that's another matter.The thing is with Heljan,when all is well,the performance is second to none and the finish is a bobby dazzler..witness the delightful Met.electric .Not too long ago they were using some of the best motors available.

I really look forward to a purchase of an O2 safe in the knowledge that it will pull an elephant without fuss without bits falling off ,glitches in derailments or expiring motors.

[Horsetan]

......witness the delightful Met.electric .....

 

....and the Hymek before it.

[No Decorum]

I have a pre-order with Hattons, going back years to when these were first announced. My choice is not in the first shipment, but I am now concerned, given that the big H does not test locos prior to despatch, I could get caught out with a duffer! So would anyone who does get one please keep us informed on this thread?

 I eventually cancelled the H Garratt, I did see one!

 The O2 is intrinsic to my layout, .....

Please help,

 Tentative in Oz,

 Peter C.

The ever-reliable Invicta phoned me yesterday to tell me that my O2/3 (LNER 3965) had arrived. Needless to say, I spent a rather restless night in view of the reports on here. It arrived this morning by Royal Mail (pretty good from one extreme of the UK to another). After running in forwards, it's now running in backwards. It runs smoothly and quietly in both directions and after its first half-hour was perfectly cool. I was happy enough to phone Invicta and order an O2/4 - I only ordered one O2 initially as I am a quietly unhappy owner of two Beyer-Garratts.

 

That is not to say that I don't have quibbles. The cylinders appear to be metal and some paint has chipped off - possibly because the beautiful sheet of soft plastic which Heljan uses hadn't been wrapped around the model properly. The pick-ups behind the wheels catch the light but some black paint should resolve both problems. Only one brake hanger had come loose. Light shows under what should be solid front frames; I haven't had a chance yet to see if they can be pressed down or glued.

 

I have a feeling that Heljan has been misled by photographs showing the dirt which accumulated on the real thing around the bottom of the front spectacle windows and modelled them rounded instead of squared off. The backhead detail is very neatly printed but there don't seem to be separately attached pieces and the regulator in particular is not well represented. However, the cab is quite well enclosed and two glazing units are provided to fit to the rear side window apertures if desired. These and a crew should conceal most of the backplate. If Heljan decides to produce a version with a GNR cab, and I think that's the intention, shortcomings in that area will be that bit more noticeable.

All in all, in my opinion, a decent model, provided you don't get a dud!

[gr.king]

 The backhead detail is very neatly printed but there don't seem to be separately attached pieces and the regulator in particular is not well represented. ....   If Heljan decides to produce a version with a GNR cab, and I think that's the intention, shortcomings in that area will be that bit more noticeable.

All in all, in my opinion, a decent model, provided you don't get a dud!

 

Given the open nature of the GN cab and the possible need for a highly distinctive Stirling type pull-out regulator on locos with those cabs, that backhead, if unaltered, certainly could be unsatisfactory. I probably have a perfectly suitable better replacement to hand though, so if the 02/2 (and with an awful lot of luck the 02/1) ever appears, I can adopt smug mode if I choose to buy one.

[BrushVeteran]

 

 

 

I have a feeling that Heljan has been misled by photographs showing the dirt which accumulated on the real thing around the bottom of the front spectacle windows and modelled them rounded instead of squared off. The backhead detail is very neatly printed but there don't seem to be separately attached pieces and the regulator in particular is not well represented. However, the cab is quite well enclosed and two glazing units are provided to fit to the rear side window apertures if desired. These and a crew should conceal most of the backplate. If Heljan decides to produce a version with a GNR cab, and I think that's the intention, shortcomings in that area will be that bit more noticeable.

All in all, in my opinion, a decent model, provided you don't get a dud!

63948 showing rounded corners to spectacle windows

63948 showing squared off corners to spectacle windows

63949 showing squared off corners to spectacle windows

63958 showing rounded corners to spectacle windows

63958 showing rounded corners to spectacle windows

 

Well I sincerely hope you don't get a dud and I can say that the majority of this first batch were in fact unpacked in Denmark and tested upon arrival from China, hence the slight delay in distribution.

 

Regarding the cab spectacle windows this was debated to great length on another forum. Attached are some pictures, and in the case of one locomotive 63948, showing both rounded and squared off corners to the front windows. Also another couple of shots showing rounded corners.

In this respect the decision was taken to go with rounded with the reasoning that it is easier to take material away than add it, should purchasers wish for the squared corner variety. The cost of providing a third cab option would have just pushed the price up more. 

 

The boiler backplate I'm sorry to say was represented on the best we had available before CAD and tooling commenced. I did appeal for more information/photographs regarding this on another forum and also asked a lot of people that know more than I do. In the event I was told that the LNER cabbed loco's had a similar set up to a B17 so it is loosely based on that as that is what was advised at the time. We have recently acquired a cab interior shot of a GN cabbed Tango but doesn't show the regulator or firehole door so again we are not completely sure about this. If anybody can supply a good interior shot of a GN cab then we may be able to get this altered for the O1/1 and O1/2 models but everything has already been tooled for these versions and the cab tooling altered twice.

 

My involvement with this project was to try and get the best RTR 'Tango' to the market, which at the time of conception looked like I may not succeed. There have been many discussions on Forums regarding this project and I myself, along with my learned friend Tony Wright, have tried to portray the model at each stage of its development and progress. Now it is on sale I am naturally concerned if people feel it is not completely accurate, although it has to be appreciated some compromises in tooling had to be made, but obviously more disappointed if they run badly as a lot of time and effort was spent by me and others in trying to achieve perfect running. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by BrushVeteran

[Market65]

I will not get one from Hattons, for I don't have a car and cannot get there to see one being tested. I do not wish to end up having to send it straight back again. I think I might be looking at getting one at Doncaster next month. But only if reports here come back in sufficient numbers to say that the models are running consistently well etc.

 

With regards,

 

Rob.

[Legend]

Well let's wait see. Seems a shame it's the shopkeeper or Customer that will be doing the QC checks again

Edited January 22, 2016 by Legend

[Ian Hargrave]

I will not get one from Hattons, for I don't have a car and cannot get there to see one being tested. I do not wish to end up having to send it straight back again. I think I might be looking at getting one at Doncaster next month. But only if reports here come back in sufficient numbers to say that the models are running consistently well etc.

With regards,

Rob.

And that I think is a sensible course of action.

[Woodcock29]

Hi Brush Veteran

 

You are to be commended for the work achieved in getting the O2s developed with Heljan.

 

I've also made comment on another site about the cab spectacles in the past. I've been studying the photos on the Kernow site as these appear definitely to be photos of the production batch. I do see the difference between the absolute right angled shape and the so called rounded shape in the photos you have included above but the model appears to have very accentuated rounding to the bottom of the spectacles. I take your point about removing material rather than adding it - I might just try that. I'm curious though about the chimneys as both the LNER O2/3 and the 'British Railways' O2/4 have chimneys that appear to be too tall, ie they look like the original GN versions fitted to the earliest O2/1s and O2/2s. In contrast the earlier emblem BR O2/4 appears to have the shorter chimney that should also have been fitted to the other two.

 

Although I shouldn't have to tinker with a model to get it right I don't really mind doing that as mine is then a bit different to the straight out of the box modellers and it takes me away from kit building for a while!

 

I will have an LNER O2/3 shortly once it arrives from Liverpool. I'm hoping it performs well given the comments above. I will be re-lettering it to pre war LNER shaded lettering and it can join my old Nucast O2/2 which has plodded along very satisfactorily for almost 34 years now, driven by it early Portescap.

 

Andrew Emmett

[Market65]

Hi, Woodcock29. I do hope that your model will be a faultless performer, and that it will have no issues with handrails etc.

The chimney is some form of error -  by the factory workers?  I am not sure. I just hope the next batch of O2's will be better, and one of the second batch is what I may well wait for. Indeed the chimney's that I saw on the two models yesterday in Rails, were of somewhat variable quality, with some big lumps of flash on the rear of them. The other customer I was speaking with said that he would be cutting off those chimneys, and replacing them with castings.

 

With regards,

 

Rob.

[gr.king]

The worthy contributors to this forum seem unusually slow off the mark at posting pictures of what came in their eagerly opened boxes on this occasion. As fault with features of the models has been alleged, in some cases based on pictures of a pre-production mock-up, it would be interesting to see whether the items as actually retailed really display those faults.

[BrushVeteran]

Hi Brush Veteran

 

You are to be commended for the work achieved in getting the O2s developed with Heljan.

 

I've also made comment on another site about the cab spectacles in the past. I've been studying the photos on the Kernow site as these appear definitely to be photos of the production batch. I do see the difference between the absolute right angled shape and the so called rounded shape in the photos you have included above but the model appears to have very accentuated rounding to the bottom of the spectacles. I take your point about removing material rather than adding it - I might just try that. I'm curious though about the chimneys as both the LNER O2/3 and the 'British Railways' O2/4 have chimneys that appear to be too tall, ie they look like the original GN versions fitted to the earliest O2/1s and O2/2s. In contrast the earlier emblem BR O2/4 appears to have the shorter chimney that should also have been fitted to the other two.

 

Although I shouldn't have to tinker with a model to get it right I don't really mind doing that as mine is then a bit different to the straight out of the box modellers and it takes me away from kit building for a while!

 

I will have an LNER O2/3 shortly once it arrives from Liverpool. I'm hoping it performs well given the comments above. I will be re-lettering it to pre war LNER shaded lettering and it can join my old Nucast O2/2 which has plodded along very satisfactorily for almost 34 years now, driven by it early Portescap.

 

Andrew Emmett

 

Thanks for you positive comments Andrew.

 

Regarding the chimneys we had to take a stance whereby we could represent all 'Tango's with both chimney versions. If fact originally Heljan were only going to provide one chimney as photographs actually show a mixture of both across O2/3's and O2/4's and it is difficult in some cases to make out whether they are 3" shorter or taller.

 

As Heljan make the chimney as part of the smokebox and provide a separate top 'ring' we decided to use the shorter chimney on the O2/4 dia.100A boiler variants and the longer chimney on the O2/3 dia. 2 boiler as the smokebox from this will be used on the O2/1 and O2/2 when it is made. In modelling dimensions there is 1mm difference between the two and if purchasers wish to have the shorter chimney on the O2/3 then they can carefully remove the top ring, remove 1mm of chimney and then replace the top. I'm afraid this was another of the compromises we had to accept in order to get the variations made.

 

Originally Heljan were only going to make the O2/3 with one variation of tender but the powers of persuasion won the day and we were able to convince them that a greater variation in models would increase sales.........................even if it means a little compromise here and there.

 

From a personal point of view it is very rewarding to hear everyone's comments whether it be praise or constructive critisism as the model has come to the shops in what has been a very intensive development which has involved seven stages of pre-production samples to be tested and signed off...............and there is never enough time to sign the sample off as everything in China has to fit into a 'time slot', and we have to go via Denmark!  I fully accept that there will be dissatisfied people out there but in all honesty I think the model looks like a 'Tango' and has the face of one, it certainly performs like one.  

 

When we first approached Tony Wright for some guidance on this project his first words were "Oh God the O2 is a minefield" and I can say that my language has been a little more 'basic' at times when dealing with the differences!

 

I hope those of you that buy then get good ones..........I'm afraid I'm not responsible for any 'production' issues but I do know that very thorough testing was carried out and we weren't afraid to 'loan' them out at exhibitions to demonstrate their performance.

 

Now to crack on with the O2/1 and O2/2!

[Ian Hargrave]

That is the most heartfelt and eloquent encouragement to buy a model that I have ever read. All of us realise that if there are faults here,then they are not yours.Your candour and openness are much appreciated...as is the time,effort and energy that went into the development of the O2 on your part and others associated with the project.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Now to crack on with the O2/1 and O2/2!

 Fine as the LNER version is, it is the earlier build with the visible GNR heritage that excites me most.

 

If I may, please try and persuade whoever needs persuading, that the GNR tender mouldings as a separate kit, would be a most desireable item in my opinion.

[Butler Henderson]

Kernow have 3 of each in stock ....in comparison with yesterday's reported stock levels at Rails.If you seek a mail order retailer who tests before despatch,then Hereford Model Centre (who are Heljan stockists) provide this service.Their prices are competitive and they are reliable.They have a presence at all major model railway events.They will be at Doncaster on 13th/14th February.

Do they test on receipt of the model because I have never seen them test run a loco on their trade stand at an exhibition.

[2750Papyrus]

The worthy contributors to this forum seem unusually slow off the mark at posting pictures of what came in their eagerly opened boxes on this occasion. As fault with features of the models has been alleged, in some cases based on pictures of a pre-production mock-up, it would be interesting to see whether the items as actually retailed really display those faults.

 

Hi Graham.  You pose an interesting challenge to those of us in the "point and shoot" brigade so I tried this morning but at the moment I am floored by the 1 Mb limit on attachments.  Any suggestions, please?

 

I am a bit worried that my earlier comments may have contributed to something of a Tango bashing.  Brush Veteran and Tony Wright have explained the lengths gone to in deveoplment (separate modelling of short and long travel valves!) and the occasional compromises, and it must be dispiriting to them to read this early criticism.  So I will enlarge a little on my earlier comments.

 

The cabside number on mine is actually pretty straight but the cab handrail above it slopes slightly.  I haven't tried to straighten it yet. 

 

All other handrails are present and correct.  The chimney is well moulded, carries no flash and is mounted centrally and upright on the boiler.  (I believe the topics of height and cab window shape have been well covered above.)  The cab detailing is pretty amazing, even if lacking a regulator handle, as are other details such as the cylinder drain pipes, works plate and printing on the front buffer beam.  This is an excellent looking model - not so long ago it would have won medals if exhibited in a showcase at the MRC or MRE exhibitions. However, I might perhaps wish the ends of the driving wheel axles had been darkened.

 

With regard to performance, from previous experience I expect Heljan models to run powerfully, smoothly and quietly in both directions.  Mine does, though it is not yet run in. 

 

I also expect it to stay on the track but at the moment, mine doesn't, with the front drivers occasionally tending to leave the rails.  Derailments can be caused by model faults, trackwork faults or a combination of the two and I haven't resolved this yet.  Maybe I should have done so before posting but I haven't had this problem with other recent acquisitions such as the Metro and J15 and thought I should express my own "Tango" experience in view of the comments regarding Rails. 

 

A slight digression here: I don't have calipers and have previously checked back-to-back measurements with a simple U section gauge machined from brass.  This went missing just before Christmas and so I bought another at St Albans, allegedly 14.5mm width for "Hornby, Bachmann and RP25".  Whilst playing with the Tango, the "old" gauge leapt out from its hiding place shouting "here I am!".  Placing it next to the new gauge, there was an obvious step indicating a difference in width.  Converting 14.5 mm to the units I grew up with comes to 0.571".  The "old" gauge mic'd up at 0.571" whilst the "new" one was a narrower 0.567". 

 

I don't know how significant that 0.1mm is but the drivers are a bit on the narrow side, especially the front ones.  Having laid a steel rule across all the wheel sets, it isn't obvious that the pony wheels could lift the drivers but there isn't a lot of free movement in the vertical plane.  I have also noticed on my photos that there is daylight visible between the top of the frames and the running plate but haven't worked out the significance of this to running, if any - it is forward of the pony pivot.  Over the next few days I will try and locate the location(s) on my layout where the problem arises to check for track faults.  I will also be visiting the Doncaster and/or Biggleswade shows and am happy to donate to Tony Wright's charity if he will check that my model looks as he would expect it to.

 

I know from experience the learning curve in obtaining consistent quality from an unskilled workforce and understand that the testing was of pre-production models on primarily exhibition standard layouts so I can understand those who choose not to buy first-off production (  a bit like cars, I guess).  However, this is an impressive model and deserves credit as such.

[Ian Hargrave]

Do they test on receipt of the model because I have never seen them test run a loco on their trade stand at an exhibition.

When you receive your model by mail order from them,you will find a little slip inside that reads "tested by".In the case of exhibition stands,the simplest course of action is to take your purchase to a suitable layout and ask if they will give your newly acquired treasure a spin just to ensure all is well.

[2750Papyrus]

The worthy contributors to this forum seem unusually slow off the mark at posting pictures of what came in their eagerly opened boxes on this occasion. As fault with features of the models has been alleged, in some cases based on pictures of a pre-production mock-up, it would be interesting to see whether the items as actually retailed really display those faults.

 

reduced in paint and resaved.  Side view showing chimney, works plate, cylinder drain cocks and gap between frames and running plate

 

 

cabside - number is straighter than handrail!

 

 

front view - hadn't noticed other lampirons were bent

 

 

rear view

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by 2750Papyrus

[BrushVeteran]

 Fine as the LNER version is, it is the earlier build with the visible GNR heritage that excites me most.

 

If I may, please try and persuade whoever needs persuading, that the GNR tender mouldings as a separate kit, would be a most desireable item in my opinion.

I have already mentioned this to them and it may be that it can get produced as a spare part, but as a complete tender. I will bear your comments in mind though for when we get around to actually producing that version.