Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[Dunsignalling]

If a Hornby model is going to appear for the first time on Monday 22 April 2013 it is a 2013 release and I think it is relevant to this topic. I have looked through my collection of photographs, Locomotives Illustrated Bulleid Light Pacifics, the Book of the West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Derry and other books and had look on the internet but I have not been able to find a picture of Exeter in its air smoothed form hauling a train. There are several pictures of Exeter in its rebuilt form hauling trains. If someone on this site has spotted Exeter between 1955 and 1957 or taken a picture of it hauling a train I would be grateful if they would please supply some information about where it was and what sort of coaches it was hauling. This would enable people who bought the Hornby locomotive to run it with suitable rolling stock instead of making an educated guess. I would like to thank the people who have provided useful information so far.

'Exeter' was just one of 110 Bulleid Light pacifics and, between 1955 and 1957, would have been employed on more-or-less the same work as the other 109 were doing.

 

Therefore, all you need are 1955-7 photographs of West Countries at work, taken in the area your layout portrays.

 

The lining is another matter; Hornby's image does not tally with the normal layout carried by locomotives running with high-sided tenders. 

 

I have ordered 'Okehampton' but not 'Exeter' as I don't buy 'Spam Cans' that were later rebuilt. This is to prevent me running them alongside rebuilt locos that were 'done' later than themselves! 

['CHARD]

you reckon thats actually do-able?

 

If someone drags the F*** into the debate it is....

[Guest jim s-w]

you reckon thats actually do-able?

 

Never say never!

[Guest Phil]

If a Hornby model is going to appear for the first time on Monday 22 April 2013 it is a 2013 release and I think it is relevant to this topic. I have looked through my collection of photographs, Locomotives Illustrated Bulleid Light Pacifics, the Book of the West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Derry and other books and had look on the internet but I have not been able to find a picture of Exeter in its air smoothed form hauling a train. There are several pictures of Exeter in its rebuilt form hauling trains. If someone on this site has spotted Exeter between 1955 and 1957 or taken a picture of it hauling a train I would be grateful if they would please supply some information about where it was and what sort of coaches it was hauling. This would enable people who bought the Hornby locomotive to run it with suitable rolling stock instead of making an educated guess. I would like to thank the people who have provided useful information so far.

Robin, I really don't want this to appear as a flame or anything similar, but I think you are asking some really bizarre questions in this thread, which are causing a number of RMwebbers some head scratching. I tried, a few posts ago to explain to you how the locomotives might have been used for pretty much anything in the pre privatisation era, but I now realise I didn't cover enough ground, so let's make things nice and simple.

 

A class of locomotives were allocated to a number of locomotive depots to cover diagrams. The diagrams created by the planners / timetablers enabled the timtable to be run with an adequate number of locos, allowing some spare cover, others on maintenance / repairs, and some in the works. Therefore "Exeter" would be one of a number of locos working trains over a set of routes as dictated by the diagrams.

 

Have you considered finding out which classmates "Exeter" shared it's home with, then looking for photographs of them ? This might lead you on in your quest to find out for yourself what you are asking others for. Your "Exeter" sounds very much like the favourite English Electric Type 4 of my mate - D365 or 40165 in it's TOPS guise. If you have nothing to do for ten minutes, try a Google or Flickr search on this loco and see how many online photos of it there are. Now this is where you can really get clued up. 40165 was a Haymarket loco for a good proportion of it's life, so what I'd do in your circumstances would be to look for photos of other "HA" allocated locos and draw a conclusion. Whilst mentioning these search facilities, I trust you have tried them for your research of the trains "Exeter" pulled ?

 

In my opinion Robin, your research seems way to clinical, without getting down to the nitty gritty. As a matter of interest, how long have you been a (model) railway enthusiast ? I note earlier in the thread that you mentioned saving up for a Hornby Dublo "Bude". I was a slip of a lad then, or not even born, so you have a few years on me by the sound of things

 

Hope this helps you in your quest

[coachmann]

Nah, Repulse was a very fine LMS 5XP 'Jubilee', a New Street favourite.... Rumour has it the 'Fell' was on its way to Birmingham but when the brummy signalman saw the outside rods he diverted it to Snow Hill.....

[60027Merlin]

Thank you for your detailed response. In mitigation I would point out that when Model Rail reviewed Coronach on page 28 of the November 2011 issue of Model Rail it said that Coronach was a resident of Carlisle (Canal) depot and would have been a regular performer on the Carlise-Edinburgh route on trains such as "The Waverley." The magazine stated that the Hornby model was a representation of it in 1959 and suggested that it should be used with BR maroon Mk1, Thompson or Gresley coaches. As far as I know no-one ever questioned this.

 

This is the first time since last weekend that I have gone into this thread and for the record I note the following re Coronach.

 

Whilst Hornby advertised this model as "Coronach Circa 1959" which is unusual, as normally no date is quoted, it is incorrect. It is modelled as per Circa 1961. 

 

They produced it with an A4 boiler which it did not receive until December 1960 when it would have resembled a part built DJH kit in Doncaster Works. The loco was withdrawn in April 1962 therefore the model is only suitable for the year 1961 and a few months in 1962 until it was withdrawn. In addition, a minor point which is easily corrected, Hornby had the AWS bang plate fitted under the front buffer beam which yet again was incorrect as the Carlisle A3s did not receive AWS. Unfortunately Hornby's research had gone awry for this model and also Model Rail and other magazines did not pick these errors up or the use of LMS coaches in their reviews.

 

I questioned these errors with Hornby but sadly it was all too late.

.

[bluebottle]

Robin Brasher, on 19 Jan 2013 - 16:39, said:

...I have looked through my collection of photographs, Locomotives Illustrated Bulleid Light Pacifics, the Book of the West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Derry and other books and had look on the internet but I have not been able to find a picture of Exeter in its air smoothed form hauling a train. There are several pictures of Exeter in its rebuilt form hauling trains. If someone on this site has spotted Exeter between 1955 and 1957...

 

Robin, I really don't want this to appear as a flame or anything similar, but I think you are asking some really bizarre questions in this thread, which are causing a number of RMwebbers some head scratching. I tried, a few posts ago to explain to you how the locomotives might have been used for pretty much anything in the pre privatisation era, but I now realise I didn't cover enough ground, so let's make things nice and simple.

A class of locomotives were allocated to a number of locomotive depots to cover diagrams. The diagrams created by the planners / timetablers enabled the timtable to be run with an adequate number of locos, allowing some spare cover, others on maintenance / repairs, and some in the works. Therefore "Exeter" would be one of a number of locos working trains over a set of routes as dictated by the diagrams.

Have you considered finding out which classmates "Exeter" shared it's home with, then looking for photographs of them ? This might lead you on in your quest to find out for yourself what you are asking others for. Your "Exeter" sounds very much like the favourite English Electric Type 4 of my mate - D365 or 40165 in it's TOPS guise. If you have nothing to do for ten minutes, try a Google or Flickr search on this loco and see how many online photos of it there are. Now this is where you can really get clued up. 40165 was a Haymarket loco for a good proportion of it's life, so what I'd do in your circumstances would be to look for photos of other "HA" allocated locos and draw a conclusion. Whilst mentioning these search facilities, I trust you have tried them for your research of the trains "Exeter" pulled ?

In my opinion Robin, your research seems way to clinical, without getting down to the nitty gritty. As a matter of interest, how long have you been a (model) railway enthusiast ? I note earlier in the thread that you mentioned saving up for a Hornby Dublo "Bude". I was a slip of a lad then, or not even born, so you have a few years on me by the sound of things

Hope this helps you in your quest

 

I scratched my head a little over your reply to Robin, Phil. It seems obvious that he's talking about the Bulleid West Country class Exeter, not your friend's favourite EE type 4. The chap's not always wrong!

 

Edit. Got Phil's name wrong.

[Guest Phil]

Robin Brasher, on 19 Jan 2013 - 16:39, said:.I have looked through my collection of photographs, Locomotives Illustrated Bulleid Light Pacifics, the Book of the West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Derry and other books and had look on the internet but I have not been able to find a picture of Exeter in its air smoothed form hauling a train. There are several pictures of Exeter in its rebuilt form hauling trains. If someone on this site has spotted Exeter between 1955 and 1957...

 

 

I scratched my head a little over your reply to Robin, Phil. It seems obvious that he's talking about the Bulleid West Country class Exeter, not your friend's favourite EE type 4. The chap's not always wrong!

 

Edit. Got Phil's name wrong.

I was using D365 as an analogy because it appears to have been quite a camera shy loco, possibly just like "Exeter" may have been if Robin couldn't find many photos of it in his chosen time period. It was only an example.

 

Apologies if I didn't make myself clear enough.

[bluebottle]

I was using D365 as an analogy because it appears to have been quite a camera shy loco, possibly just like "Exeter" may have been if Robin couldn't find many photos of it in his chosen time period. It was only an example.

 

Apologies if I didn't make myself clear enough.

 

Ah, I see - you were too subtle for me, Phil! I hesitated too over 50044 (an EE class 4 pre-TOPS) also named Exeter!

Serves me right for getting mixed up with anything do do with diesels ...

 

Gordon

[johnstreet]

Robin Brasher is a modeller with a fine pedigree going back over a number of years. His scratchbuilt models of stations on the Swanage branch were an inspiration to many modellers four decades ago now. His name as a modeller is surely as well known as Peter Denny or Monty Wells. Please show some respect to those who have helped the model railway pastime develop.

[Robin Brasher]

Robin, I really don't want this to appear as a flame or anything similar, but I think you are asking some really bizarre questions in this thread, which are causing a number of RMwebbers some head scratching. I tried, a few posts ago to explain to you how the locomotives might have been used for pretty much anything in the pre privatisation era, but I now realise I didn't cover enough ground, so let's make things nice and simple.

 

A class of locomotives were allocated to a number of locomotive depots to cover diagrams. The diagrams created by the planners / timetablers enabled the timtable to be run with an adequate number of locos, allowing some spare cover, others on maintenance / repairs, and some in the works. Therefore "Exeter" would be one of a number of locos working trains over a set of routes as dictated by the diagrams.

 

Have you considered finding out which classmates "Exeter" shared it's home with, then looking for photographs of them ? This might lead you on in your quest to find out for yourself what you are asking others for. Your "Exeter" sounds very much like the favourite English Electric Type 4 of my mate - D365 or 40165 in it's TOPS guise. If you have nothing to do for ten minutes, try a Google or Flickr search on this loco and see how many online photos of it there are. Now this is where you can really get clued up. 40165 was a Haymarket loco for a good proportion of it's life, so what I'd do in your circumstances would be to look for photos of other "HA" allocated locos and draw a conclusion. Whilst mentioning these search facilities, I trust you have tried them for your research of the trains "Exeter" pulled ?

 

In my opinion Robin, your research seems way to clinical, without getting down to the nitty gritty. As a matter of interest, how long have you been a (model) railway enthusiast ? I note earlier in the thread that you mentioned saving up for a Hornby Dublo "Bude". I was a slip of a lad then, or not even born, so you have a few years on me by the sound of things

 

Hope this helps you in your quest

Thank you for your advice. I have been a model railway enthusiast for the last 60 years. I started off with my uncle's Hornby 0 gauge clockwork train set when I was 3 and I used to do some train spotting at Chelsfield station in Kent. My grandfather used to time his visits to see us so that the Golden Arrow went over the Sevenoaks railway bridge at the same time as he drove under it. It was a Hornby-Dublo Barnstaple that I saved up for. It is still running after 49 years of active service so it is probably engineered better than Hornby's Wincanton will be although I probably will not be around long enough to put this to the test.

 

I have found a picture of 34005 Barnstaple on Saturday 8th September 1956 leaving Swanage with a through train to Waterloo with a rake of Maunsell crimson and cream coaches. This is on page 34 of More Southern Steam South and West by Tony Fairclough and Alan Wills and G.D.King took the photograph. Barnstaple was originally shedded at Exmouth Junction like Exeter but was reallocated to Nine Elms on 11th April 1951 according to page 83 of West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Berry. Nevertheless I think the picture of Barnstaple would give some indication of suitable rolling stock for Exeter between 1955 and 1957. I will try and get some further information by finding out which Bulleid Light Pacifics were allocated to Exmouth Junction on the relevant dates and then seeing what rolling stock they hauled. A parcels train of SR Van B bogie vans in BR crimson, another 2013 release, is another possibility or a rake of a few SR, SR ex LSWR or BR coaches double headed by two Bulleid light Pacifics or a light Pacific and another BR SR locomotive is another.

[Guest jim s-w]

Robin Brasher is a modeller with a fine pedigree going back over a number of years. His scratchbuilt models of stations on the Swanage branch were an inspiration to many modellers four decades ago now. His name as a modeller is surely as well known as Peter Denny or Monty Wells. Please show some respect to those who have helped the model railway pastime develop.

 

With appologies to Robin but im afraid ive never heard of him. Hes shown us nothing of this pedigree you speak about and seems to just ask very newbie type questions with earlier posts showing apparently no effort on his part to find out anything for himself.

 

If someone comes across as a newbie who just wants everyone else to do his homework for him, then i am afraid he is going to wind people up, regardless of some unknown pedigree. Im sorry but thats always going to be how it is.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Guest Phil]

Robin Brasher is a modeller with a fine pedigree going back over a number of years. His scratchbuilt models of stations on the Swanage branch were an inspiration to many modellers four decades ago now. His name as a modeller is surely as well known as Peter Denny or Monty Wells. Please show some respect to those who have helped the model railway pastime develop.

 

I have no problem showing respect to anyone in the hobby who puts in the effort. We are all different and various skills and abilities, but at the end of the day this is a hobby for us to enjoy. There is a sense of achievement in researching a model railway - at least for me there is, and i am really pleased Robin has made the post below.

Thank you for your advice. I have been a model railway enthusiast for the last 60 years. I started off with my uncle's Hornby 0 gauge clockwork train set when I was 3 and I used to do some train spotting at Chelsfield station in Kent. My grandfather used to time his visits to see us so that the Golden Arrow went over the Sevenoaks railway bridge at the same time as he drove under it. It was a Hornby-Dublo Barnstaple that I saved up for. It is still running after 49 years of active service so it is probably engineered better than Hornby's Wincanton will be although I probably will not be around long enough to put this to the test.

 

I have found a picture of 34005 Barnstaple on Saturday 8th September 1956 leaving Swanage with a through train to Waterloo with a rake of Maunsell crimson and cream coaches. This is on page 34 of More Southern Steam South and West by Tony Fairclough and Alan Wills and G.D.King took the photograph. Barnstaple was originally shedded at Exmouth Junction like Exeter but was reallocated to Nine Elms on 11th April 1951 according to page 83 of West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Berry. Nevertheless I think the picture of Barnstaple would give some indication of suitable rolling stock for Exeter between 1955 and 1957. I will try and get some further information by finding out which Bulleid Light Pacifics were allocated to Exmouth Junction on the relevant dates and then seeing what rolling stock they hauled. A parcels train of SR Van B bogie vans in BR crimson, another 2013 release, is another possibility or a rake of a few SR, SR ex LSWR or BR coaches double headed by two Bulleid light Pacifics or a light Pacific and another BR SR locomotive is another.

Excellent stuff Robin. You are cooking on gas. As i said, researching your modelling should be at least as enjoyable as actually getting your hands dirty with paint, solder and polystyrene dust. A number of modellers have commented in recent times about cheque book modelling not providing fullfillment, and i have to agree. Keep up the research Robin and enjoy.

[Guest Belgian]

Thank you for your advice. I have been a model railway enthusiast for the last 60 years. I started off with my uncle's Hornby 0 gauge clockwork train set when I was 3 and I used to do some train spotting at Chelsfield station in Kent. My grandfather used to time his visits to see us so that the Golden Arrow went over the Sevenoaks railway bridge at the same time as he drove under it. It was a Hornby-Dublo Barnstaple that I saved up for. It is still running after 49 years of active service so it is probably engineered better than Hornby's Wincanton will be although I probably will not be around long enough to put this to the test.

 

I have found a picture of 34005 Barnstaple on Saturday 8th September 1956 leaving Swanage with a through train to Waterloo with a rake of Maunsell crimson and cream coaches. This is on page 34 of More Southern Steam South and West by Tony Fairclough and Alan Wills and G.D.King took the photograph. Barnstaple was originally shedded at Exmouth Junction like Exeter but was reallocated to Nine Elms on 11th April 1951 according to page 83 of West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Berry. Nevertheless I think the picture of Barnstaple would give some indication of suitable rolling stock for Exeter between 1955 and 1957. I will try and get some further information by finding out which Bulleid Light Pacifics were allocated to Exmouth Junction on the relevant dates and then seeing what rolling stock they hauled. A parcels train of SR Van B bogie vans in BR crimson, another 2013 release, is another possibility or a rake of a few SR, SR ex LSWR or BR coaches double headed by two Bulleid light Pacifics or a light Pacific and another BR SR locomotive is another.

If you were to join the SEmG Robin, you would find that their files have many copies of Southern Region carriage working details as well as the make up of individual carriage sets with the coach numbers. It would then be possible to have your trains exactly correct. Carriage working notices and timetables are often to be found at auctions, in secondhand bookshops and on e-bay if you don't want to join societies/clubs etc.

 

Furthermore, if you have any knowledge of Southern working practices you would know that double-heading, particularly of Bulleid Pacifics, was exceedingly rare on the Southern other than for failures or requirements to get locomotives moved around without using up precious pathways. A rake of SR ex LSWR coaches behind a Bulleid Pacific after 1955 is also unlikely, since most of the remaining such stock was being phased out quite rapidly at that time and was used primarily on local services such as on the Hampshire rural lines behind locomotives including T9s or Standard class 4 moguls but rarely Pacifics, or on branch lines or as seasonal or special workings stock. The well-known examples of Light Pacifics on two-coach trains in the West Country are usually simply parts of the multi-portioned trains such as the 'Atlantic Coast Express' and these usually comprised Bulleid stock or occasionally Maunsell stock. BR Standard carriages weren't to be seen until the very late 1950s/early 1960s in any great numbers.

 

I would suggest you also invest in the various books about Southern carriage and coaching stock by authors such as Mike King which give chapter and verse on such items.

 

JE

[Gilwell Park]

Hi

 

I have a picture of Exeter at Exeter St, David's in November 1950. on a freight train, double headed with E1R 2695. The first vehicle is a SR van, followed by 4 LMS? vans.  After that a few  opens and other vans. The book is "Southern steam in the west country " Bradford Barton.

 

Roger.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Back in the days of the Ford Cortina GT and 1600E of blessed memories, I was a humble product planner at Ford's Dunton R&D Centre (Basildon).  We referred to these models as equipped with "Plunder Packs".  The car was the base model with a pile of goodies added which retailed for far more than the cost of said bits plus stocking and fitting them.  Even today, the cost of automatic transmission versus manual bears little relationship to the cost differential.

 

Maybe Hornby are employing someone from the car industry . . .

 

Stan

Stan,

 

about the same time that I was working in the Service Department at Gants Hill. Some owners thought the higher specification and cost implied a better quality car, not recognising that it went through the same processes and came off the same production line.

 

As we know, the selling price of an item is not always a direct reflection of it's production costs. There are many other influences, not the least being brand image (Apple vs the rest being a good example), gullability of consumers, "must have" factor, etc.

 

Jol

[Guest Belgian]

Hi

 

I have a picture of Exeter at Exeter St, David's in November 1950. on a freight train, double headed with E1R 2695. The first vehicle is a SR van, followed by 4 LMS? vans.  After that a few  opens and other vans. The book is "Southern steam in the west country " Bradford Barton.

 

Roger.

That is an example of banking or piloting up the 1 in 37 between Exeter St David's and Exeter Central, whereby trains would often have a pilot on the front for the ascent and, notably the Meldon ballast workings, two more of the E1Rs at the rear, banking. It's not what one normally describe as 'double-heading' but was certainly a daily occurrence in steam days. The E1Rs were specifically allocated to Exmouth Junction for that purpose.

 

JE

[Dunsignalling]

Robin Brasher is a modeller with a fine pedigree going back over a number of years. His scratchbuilt models of stations on the Swanage branch were an inspiration to many modellers four decades ago now. His name as a modeller is surely as well known as Peter Denny or Monty Wells. Please show some respect to those who have helped the model railway pastime develop.

Good Morning John

 

So, there are two of us on here.....

 

JDS

[Dunsignalling]

Hi

 

I have a picture of Exeter at Exeter St, David's in November 1950. on a freight train, double headed with E1R 2695. The first vehicle is a SR van, followed by 4 LMS? vans.  After that a few  opens and other vans. The book is "Southern steam in the west country " Bradford Barton.

 

Roger.

Morning Roger,

 

On page 46 of the same book is a (rather clearer) shot taken before the pilot engine was attached.

 

JDS

[Andy Y]

Do you mean that there's two different John Street's who share the same supportive stance?

[Happy Hippo]

This thread seems to be drifting way off track, and now has little about Hornby 2013 Announcements or whatever year they will eventually appear.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[Guest Belgian]

This thread seems to be drifting way off track, and now has little about Hornby 2013 Announcements or whatever year they will eventually appear.

 

Regards

 

Richard

Not too far off Richard, all this talk about 'Exeter' is about one of the Hornby 2012 items delayed to 2013.

 

JE

[Dunsignalling]

I will try and get some further information by finding out which Bulleid Light Pacifics were allocated to Exmouth Junction on the relevant dates and then seeing what rolling stock they hauled. A parcels train of SR Van B bogie vans in BR crimson, another 2013 release, is another possibility or a rake of a few SR, SR ex LSWR or BR coaches double headed by two Bulleid light Pacifics or a light Pacific and another BR SR locomotive is another.

Good Morning Robin,

 

As you are still looking, I take it you don't have a copy of the reprinted Winter 1955/6 ABC. Mine lives near the computer, so here goes.....

 

72A had no fewer than 30 Bulleid Light pacifics at the time: 34001-4 / 34013-16 / 34021-34 / 34056-62 / 34069

 

Most parcels trains were "a right mixture" with hardly two vehicles the same and often included a few 12t fitted vans in among the npccs. A complete train of Vans B would be frowned upon as it would tie up too many precious brake vehicles.

 

Most companies' vehicles could be seen in many parts of the country, with LMR 50' BGs and 42' CCTs fairly common on SR metals. The LMR had received plenty of new BR Mk.1 equivalents but the SR had no gangwayed brakes of their own before 1963 and would presumably welcome their presence

 

Gresley BGs, ex-GWR Siphons and Pasfruit D's were also to be seen and I recall Stove Rs at the rear of Seaton Junction milk trains.

 

All these are or have been available r-t-r. Ex-GWR full brakes were fairly rare because many of them were allocated to specific diagrams.

 

JDS

[Dunsignalling]

Do you mean that there's two different John Street's who share the same supportive stance?

To a degree.....

[orcadian]

I know that |I am about to state the obvious, but sometimes the obvious does need to be stated!

 

When Hornby, in their own catalogue and their own website, give suggestions of 'suitable' or 'appropriate' rolling stock for use with their locomotive models, they only suggest items that are being, or have relatively recently, been produced by Hornby. Hence, for example, Hornby won't mention that SR or ex-SR locos frequently pulled Bulleid coaches (because another firm makes them!)

 

Richard

 

Edited for typos not spotted until (inevitably!) after pressing 'post'!