Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[Robin Brasher]

I wonder if Hornby and Bachmann need to collaborate a bit more so their ranges are complimentary. I think Darstaed and Ace do this a bit in 0 gauge with one firm making locomotives and the other coaches. When Model Rail reviews locomotives it often suggests suitable coaches. For instance it suggested that the Bachmann C class should be used with SR goods wagons and Hornby Maunsell coaches. I would add that it could also be used with parcels vans like the Hornby B van and the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push.

[Robin Brasher]

This thread seems to be drifting way off track, and now has little about Hornby 2013 Announcements or whatever year they will eventually appear.

 

Regards

 

Richard

Perhaps we could come back to the GNR N2 (as preserved)  and the 2-BIL. The Railway Modeller has just done a review of the 2-BIL and Kernow Models mentioned it in their newsletter.

[Robin Brasher]

Good Morning Robin,

 

As you are still looking, I take it you don't have a copy of the reprinted Winter 1955/6 ABC. Mine lives near the computer, so here goes.....

 

72A had no fewer than 30 Bulleid Light pacifics at the time: 34001-4 / 34013-16 / 34021-34 / 34056-62 / 34069

 

Most parcels trains were "a right mixture" with hardly two vehicles the same and often included a few 12t fitted vans in among the npccs. A complete train of Vans B would be frowned upon as it would tie up too many precious brake vehicles.

 

Most companies' vehicles could be seen in many parts of the country, with LMR 50' BGs and 42' CCTs fairly common on SR metals. The LMR had received plenty of new BR Mk.1 equivalents but the SR had no gangwayed brakes of their own before 1963 and would presumably welcome their presence

 

Gresley BGs, ex-GWR Siphons and Pasfruit D's were also to be seen and I recall Stove Rs at the rear of Seaton Junction milk trains.

 

All these are or have been available r-t-r. Ex-GWR full brakes were fairly rare because many of them were allocated to specific diagrams.

 

JDS

Thank you. That is very useful information. Parcels trains do seem to be a mixture. On page 36 of Locomotives Illustrated 38 The LNER Pacifics is a picture of Bittern hauling 4 parcels vans. They are all different and one looks very much like a BR SR 4 wheel utility van. There was a parcels train on the Swanage branch but as it arrived at 5.30 am I have not seen any photographic evidence of its formation. Drivers have told me it was simply a goods van.

[Guest Belgian]

I wonder if Hornby and Bachmann need to collaborate a bit more so their ranges are complimentary. I think Darstaed and Ace do this a bit in 0 gauge with one firm making locomotives and the other coaches. When Model Rail reviews locomotives it often suggests suitable coaches. For instance it suggested that the Bachmann C class should be used with SR goods wagons and Hornby Maunsell coaches. I would add that it could also be used with parcels vans like the Hornby B van and the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push.

My understanding is they are prevented from such collaboration by anti-monopoly laws and that is why there have been instances of duplicated models such as the B1s and Standard class 4s in recent times.

 

JE

[Ravenser]

SR 4 wheel utility vans seem to have been very common on parcels trains , across the network, up to the mid 80s . Someone has announced one RTR, but at the moment there is a Parkside kit which I've built, and which is well regarded. It would seem reasonable that a South Western Division parcels train might have several in its formation . Dapol still make the old ex Hornby Dublo SR CCT , though there's a Parkside kit for that, too. Another bit of variety would be the 4 wheel Maunsell Van C which Hornby also do and which is very fine- the stove varient would keep the guard warm . The elderly gangwayed SR Passenger Luggage van which Hornby still produce occasionally and which comes down from Triang days would also be plausible, though the length isn't quite right (Roxey do a detailing/upgrade kit for £20)

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann do the Stanier 50' BG mentioned. The Bachmann model is the old Mainline version , doesn't have flushglaze, and I recall Coachmann mentioning that the solebars are a little too far apart, so if you can afford the extra money go for the recent Hornby version - these are definitely in the shops now. Hornby's recent Gresley BG would be suitable and available, and Dapol produce a Fruit D to modern standards. Siphons are in the Hornby range (these are ex Lima): Lima also did the ex LMS 42'CCT, but that would be a second-hand buy , perhaps via eBay, and would need upgrading and perhaps repainting

 

One long-shot is a BR GUV : Bachmann do a fine model , and the first lot had been turned out from Doncaster by autumn 1957, so it's just possible one might have reached the Southern in maroon. However it's too early for BR CCTs - perhaps that's just as well as it's an old Lima model and needs some work (like a complete reconstruction of the underframe) I've done one myself - I'm very pleased with the result but I'm not exactly falling over myself to do the second....

 

So: maybe 1-2 Van B , 2-3 PMVs , a SR CCT, a Stanier BG a Van C , a Fruit D , a Siphon, a Gresley BG, a couple of fitted 12T vans maybe a BR GUv or a Hawkesworth full brake

 

I'm guessing that the Swanage parcels van will have been a 12T van because there wasn't much traffic, and presumably it was detached from a Weymouth bound parcels train at Wareham.  Applying the same logic , presumably Waterloo/West of England parcels trains might have included 12T vans destined to places like Sidmouth, Exmouth, Lyme Regis etc

 

There is a thread on  traditional parcels trains here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66383-modelling-a-traditional-parcels-train/

 

While most of the shots are 1960s not 1950s, and northern Regions , not SReg, the sheer quantity of SR PMVs and other Southern NPCCS found on other Regions' parcels trains suggests there would have been lots of them in a 1950s Southern parcels train

[Robin Brasher]

SR 4 wheel utility vans seem to have been very common on parcels trains , across the network, up to the mid 80s . Someone has announced one RTR, but at the moment there is a Parkside kit which I've built, and which is well regarded. It would seem reasonable that a South Western Division parcels train might have several in its formation . Dapol still make the old ex Hornby Dublo SR CCT , though there's a Parkside kit for that, too. Another bit of variety would be the 4 wheel Maunsell Van C which Hornby also do and which is very fine- the stove varient would keep the guard warm . The elderly gangwayed SR Passenger Luggage van which Hornby still produce occasionally and which comes down from Triang days would also be plausible, though the length isn't quite right (Roxey do a detailing/upgrade kit for £20)

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann do the Stanier 50' BG mentioned. The Bachmann model is the old Mainline version , doesn't have flushglaze, and I recall Coachmann mentioning that the solebars are a little too far apart, so if you can afford the extra money go for the recent Hornby version - these are definitely in the shops now. Hornby's recent Gresley BG would be suitable and available, and Dapol produce a Fruit D to modern standards. Siphons are in the Hornby range (these are ex Lima): Lima also did the ex LMS 42'CCT, but that would be a second-hand buy , perhaps via eBay, and would need upgrading and perhaps repainting

 

One long-shot is a BR GUV : Bachmann do a fine model , and the first lot had been turned out from Doncaster by autumn 1957, so it's just possible one might have reached the Southern in maroon. However it's too early for BR CCTs - perhaps that's just as well as it's an old Lima model and needs some work (like a complete reconstruction of the underframe) I've done one myself - I'm very pleased with the result but I'm not exactly falling over myself to do the second....

 

So: maybe 1-2 Van B , 2-3 PMVs , a SR CCT, a Stanier BG a Van C , a Fruit D , a Siphon, a Gresley BG, a couple of fitted 12T vans maybe a BR GUv or a Hawkesworth full brake

 

I'm guessing that the Swanage parcels van will have been a 12T van because there wasn't much traffic, and presumably it was detached from a Weymouth bound parcels train at Wareham.  Applying the same logic , presumably Waterloo/West of England parcels trains might have included 12T vans destined to places like Sidmouth, Exmouth, Lyme Regis etc

 

There is a thread on  traditional parcels trains here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66383-modelling-a-traditional-parcels-train/

 

While most of the shots are 1960s not 1950s, and northern Regions , not SReg, the sheer quantity of SR PMVs and other Southern NPCCS found on other Regions' parcels trains suggests there would have been lots of them in a 1950s Southern parcels train

The parcels van thread is very good. Everyone has supplied relevant information. We have got 10 SR design parcels type vans on the preserved Swanage Railway including SR B van S385S. This was restored by the Sygnets who are teenage members of the Swanage Railway Project. They chose BR blue as the colour to repaint it and I believe the Hornby BR blue version, due to be released this year, is based on this van and Hornby may present a model or make a special edition for the Sygnets. I cannot understand why Hornby has described it as BR(ScR) blue.

[James]

Robin Brasher is a modeller with a fine pedigree going back over a number of years. His scratchbuilt models of stations on the Swanage branch were an inspiration to many modellers four decades ago now. His name as a modeller is surely as well known as Peter Denny or Monty Wells. Please show some respect to those who have helped the model railway pastime develop.

Do you have any magazine references please? I'd like to have a look

['CHARD]

Robin's had a fair amount of material published on the internet.

[James]

Robin's had a fair amount of material published on the internet.

I can't find anything - expanding the search terms to "robin brahser swanage model" (as Swanage was mentioned earlier) did manage to bring photos of Indian Bridal make up!

[Ron Ron Ron]

I wonder if Hornby and Bachmann need to collaborate a bit more so their ranges are complimentary.

 

My understanding is they are prevented from such collaboration by anti-monopoly laws .....

 

 I think Belgium is right here.

Also these companies are in competition with each other for both sales and market share; they are not benevolent charities.

 

In light of Hornby's decision to reduce the levels of detail and fidelity on some of their models, maybe more duplication is now desirable to keep these companies on their toes.

 

I'm willing to bet that "Design Clever" will be found more frequently, if not exclusively, on models where there there is no competing item from one of the other RTR manufacturers. The exception being where the Hornby only have an old Railroad version they want to replace, up against a better model from one of the other RTR companies.

 

 

 

.

[Guest stuartp]

I can't find anything ...

 

Not the internet, but the Modeller over 4 decades: http://www.payhost.net/cgi-bin/ss000004.pl?SS=brasher&PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP=&ACTION.x=32&ACTION.y=13

['CHARD]

Well done, Stuart.  I confess the rich recreational interest of the material I found was not entirely in that sphere of activity.

[coachmann]

Thanks Stuart P...I found my articles too using the search so very useful.

 

Larry G.

[Robin Brasher]

Do you have any magazine references please? I'd like to have a look

Railway Modeller Oct 76 p304 Corfe Castle Station, Nov 76 p342 Corfe Castle Waiting Room, May 77 p146 Swanage Station with Mike Stollery, May 77 p184 Swanage Goods Shed, April 78 p120 Worgret Junction Signal Box, books Swanage Railway Stockbook with George Moon, Swanage Railway Album with Mike Stollery and George Moon, started list of locomotives on Swanage Railway from 1885 to 1971 which Mike Stollery has thoroughly checked and updated. I have also written articles for the Railway Modeller on M7s and pull-push sets and Bulleid light Pacifics on the Swanage Railway, my N gauge and 00 gauge Corfe Castle layouts but they are not to hand at the moment and provided a drawing of the original Swanage Station for a recent book. The Railway Modeller will not publish any more of my articles on the Swanage Railway because it has been sufficiently covered by myself and other contributors. The information from the pull-push sets may be useful if and when the Hornby pull-push set comes out in reasonable quantity.

[Robin Brasher]

There are some illustrations and a short article about Hornby's new Mk1s on page 8 of issue 179 March 2013 of Model Rail. The glazing looks very good and reminds me of the flush glazing in the Kitmaster coaches. On page 10 is an illustrated short article about Arnold's N gauge Brighton Belle. Arnold is part of the Hornby family.

[southernelectric]

John Dutfield had plenty at the CMRA St Albans show on Sunday. I was impressed that Hornby had managed to get them out so early this year, just like days of old.

 

However, The Duke magnified for the cover does look retrograde - the feed water pipes and moulded handrails are emphasised by the viewpoint. Inside, I find myself even more confused as to what distinguishes Main Range models from their Railroad siblings. Some train sets cross boundaries and contain items from both ranges. Oh, and Railroad this year will have not one, but TWO 'Cock O' The North"s. One of them black.

 

40 years ago Tri-ang Hornby were able to flag a significant upgrade like the Evening Star by labelling it 'Silver Seal', and we happily parted with a tenner for it, wide-eyed at the correct pattern wheels and convincing cabside decoration, where the previous high water mark had been Hornby Dublo's Barnstaple at £5 15s. This device is now denied them, as we now all expect any new model, and especially those offered with different 'trim levels', to be a downgrade from the introductions of the last decade.

 

I've put my finger on my dislike of the main range Peppercorn A1: we were told that was tooled with a view to upgrade. But the upgrade to the main range when it came left it with such trainset compromises as undersize cylinders.

 

Cheers,

The Nim

 

Exactly the point I made in an earlier post on here....some of the 'main range' models are really nothing more than enhanced Railroad models - like the forthcoming Tornado in blue livery. Hornby needs to make this distinction clear and not muddy the waters.

[brushman47544]

Exactly the point I made in an earlier post on here....some of the 'main range' models are really nothing more than enhanced Railroad models - like the forthcoming Tornado in blue livery. Hornby needs to make this distinction clear and not muddy the waters.

 

I wish Hornby would do this with its Train Sets too - all too often they combine a "high tech" loco with "low tech" coaches (those Pullman in particular) or wagons. The new catalogue includes a streamlined 6220 Coronation in blue in a Train Set with three of those old LMS coaches in the same livery. Not only have they done the set before (with the same numbered coaches according to the description) as a Clifford James certificated exclusive R2788 "Coronation Scot Train Pack", with 6224 Princess Alexandra) but the sets ended up being sold off cheap through Hattons and Rails at least. So I do wonder how well it will do as a standard release. I'm still not willing to buy those coaches just to get a steamlined Coronation/Duchess loco in blue.

[Robin Brasher]

I wish Hornby would do this with its Train Sets too - all too often they combine a "high tech" loco with "low tech" coaches (those Pullman in particular) or wagons. The new catalogue includes a streamlined 6220 Coronation in blue in a Train Set with three of those old LMS coaches in the same livery. Not only have they done the set before (with the same numbered coaches according to the description) as a Clifford James certificated exclusive R2788 "Coronation Scot Train Pack", with 6224 Princess Alexandra) but the sets ended up being sold off cheap through Hattons and Rails at least. So I do wonder how well it will do as a standard release. I'm still not willing to buy those coaches just to get a steamlined Coronation/Duchess loco in blue.

I had a similar problem with the R2908 Fireworks at Chilcompton Train Pack of 2010. I wanted 34042 air smoothed Dorchester as a before and after comparison to my Wrenn rebuilt Dorchester and because both ran on the Swanage Ralway that I am modelling. I did not want any more BR ex LMS coaches. I did not buy the set and various shops are still trying to sell them at prices ranging from £164.99 compared with the recommended retail price of £134.99 for Exeter. I have not got the storage space for the box. I would have thought with Hornby's experience of failing to sell some train packs it would have sold the locomotives separately.

[Guest Phil]

Exactly the point I made in an earlier post on here....some of the 'main range' models are really nothing more than enhanced Railroad models - like the forthcoming Tornado in blue livery. Hornby needs to make this distinction clear and not muddy the waters.

I wish Hornby would do this with its Train Sets too - all too often they combine a "high tech" loco with "low tech" coaches (those Pullman in particular) or wagons. The new catalogue includes a streamlined 6220 Coronation in blue in a Train Set with three of those old LMS coaches in the same livery. Not only have they done the set before (with the same numbered coaches according to the description) as a Clifford James certificated exclusive R2788 "Coronation Scot Train Pack", with 6224 Princess Alexandra) but the sets ended up being sold off cheap through Hattons and Rails at least. So I do wonder how well it will do as a standard release. I'm still not willing to buy those coaches just to get a steamlined Coronation/Duchess loco in blue.

Totally agree, and what about the "low tech" and "high tech" wagons ?

If Hornby wanted to do a "Windcutter" set, they could certainly offer some really nice 27T tipplers and an equally nice 20T brakevan to hang on the back of say an 8F released as 48305 or even 48624 http://www.picturesofengland.com/img/L/1162907.jpg

 

But I doubt very much they would, it would be the old well worn minerals and crappy old brake.

 

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/ekmps/shops/osbornsmodels/images/r6368-Hornby-br-20-ton-brake-van-269-p%5Bekm%5D500x200%5Bekm%5D.jpg

['CHARD]

....... I have not got the storage space for the box. I would have thought with Hornby's experience of failing to sell some train packs it would have sold the locomotives separately.

 

I think what usually happens is that these are split lower down the retail chain.  That is, the likes of Hattons, Rails, Modelfair (etc) may split locos from slow selling box sets, whereas Hornby tends to ship out those slow sellers complete to the on-line catalogue-type shops for sale, often at knock down prices.  You have to keep your eyes open for those, and know how, where and crucially when to look.

[Robin Brasher]

I wonder if the R1172 Majestic Train Set is an attempt to sell some slow moving items.

[Robin Brasher]

One of Hornby's new releases is GNR N2 1744. This is a model of a preserved locomotive without a cerificate to run on the main line. It can only run on preserved lines but it has visited several of these. Suitable rolling stock would be a rake of green BR1 Mk1s for its visit to the Swanage Railway or 14 BR goods wagons or a rake of BR crimson and cream Mk1s on the Great Central Railway. I have also seen it with a rake of teak Gresley coaches. It could also be paired with unusual locomotives like a GWR 4-6-0 for double heading. One attractive feature of the prototype is a destination board for places like Hertford. This and locomotive lamps are features Hornby could consider modelling. Models of N2s date back to about 1938 when Hornby-Dublo began to make a clockwork version followed by an electric one. I have still got mine which I received as a present in 1955. The present model is a huge improvement in terms of detail on the Hornby-Dublo and Rovex clockwork version. Perhaps if Hornby added some weight its performance could be improved to take 12 goods wagons or 6 coaches. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas about suitable rolling stock for this locomotive or has any suggestions about how it can be improved.

[31A]

Good call, Robin - glad somebody's picked up on this one!  A nice model, basically accurate and responds well to some mild detailing - wears its years better than some of its contemporaries.  Very pleased to see its return.

 

It'd be nice to think they might make some mechanical improvements in these latest versions - I must have had about half a dozen of these over the years and not had one that worked well out of the box.  The original Mainline ones that I had were dire and I replaced the mechanisms with scratch built or Comet chassis kit versions.  The more recent Hornby ones are better.  They have a superior motor, but still benefit from some suspension on the middle driving axle to improve pick up (and also traction; as noted, added weight also helps) - easily if crudely acheived thanks to the plastic chassis construction; I just enlarged the middle axle 'bearings' into slots and arranged leaf springs from lengths of phospher bronze wire tucked into holes drilled through the frames and bearing on the top of the axle.

 

Appearance wise, it depends how much you want to do, but easy enough to add a decent brass smokebox door dart, lamp irons and properly-shaped vacuum pipes.  The sprung buffers on the Hornby ones look better (regardless of springing), and it's easy to replace the 'flat looking' balance pipes behind the cab steps with cylindrical ones from rod; destination boards, injector pipework, coal and crew are all easy enough too if you're so minded.  That's before you get into 'variants' such as non-condensing, NBL-built with different condensing pipe arrangements, different chimneys, Scottish destination boards, etc.  As far as I know, all the Hornby ones have a revised smokebox door moulding compared to the Mainline version, with the handrail below the top hinge strap which seems to have been less common by BR days, but will suit the GN liveried version.  I'm sure the GN livery will look splendid on it, too!

 

 

Sadly they won't be doing any GN coaches to go with, but it might not be too much of a stretch to run them with the Hornby LNER liveried Gresley non gangwayed stock.  In BR livery, the aforesaid Hornby Gresley and also Thompson non gangwayed stock in BR livery suits, as does the Bachmann BR 57' non gangwayed stock.  They were also extensively used on ECS movements so Hornby Gresley and Bachmann Thompson and BR Mk1 stock is all suitable, not to mention any kind of parcels stock that takes your fancy. Also not unknown on branch-type goods trains too, e.g. on the 'Northern Heights' and Hatfield-Dunstable lines - a really useful engine!

 

 

[DerekEm8]

One of Hornby's new releases is GNR N2 1744. This is a model of a preserved locomotive without a cerificate to run on the main line. It can only run on preserved lines but it has visited several of these. Suitable rolling stock would be a rake of green BR1 Mk1s for its visit to the Swanage Railway or 14 BR goods wagons or a rake of BR crimson and cream Mk1s on the Great Central Railway. I have also seen it with a rake of teak Gresley coaches. It could also be paired with unusual locomotives like a GWR 4-6-0 for double heading. One attractive feature of the prototype is a destination board for places like Hertford. This and locomotive lamps are features Hornby could consider modelling. Models of N2s date back to about 1938 when Hornby-Dublo began to make a clockwork version followed by an electric one. I have still got mine which I received as a present in 1955. The present model is a huge improvement in terms of detail on the Hornby-Dublo and Rovex clockwork version. Perhaps if Hornby added some weight its performance could be improved to take 12 goods wagons or 6 coaches. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas about suitable rolling stock for this locomotive or has any suggestions about how it can be improved.

 

Great Northern suburban stock ?

[Nimbus]

One of Hornby's new releases is GNR N2 1744.

[...]

The present model is a huge improvement in terms of detail on the Hornby-Dublo and Rovex clockwork version. Perhaps if Hornby added some weight its performance could be improved to take 12 goods wagons or 6 coaches. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas about suitable rolling stock for this locomotive or has any suggestions about how it can be improved.

 

The boiler mountings are not well defined, the splashers too big, for a start. There was more than one arrangement of condensing pipes.

 

Up until this thread started, I would have said "Re-design it from scratch" so we'd have a chance of seeing it done justice. Now I'm not at all confident that 'design clever' would improve on the original!

 

Cheers,

The Nim