bazza. Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi Tender, A coach should not tilt going through turnouts. Have a look at the king-pin conection from the bogies to the underframe. I increase the bearing surface of these two areas with metal washers to reduce coach body wobble, might work for you ! Regards Bazza As my problem of carriage tilting through turnouts has been solved by running the 2x2Bils with the power cars together I don't think adding weight to the trailer carriages will be of any benefit, but thanks for the suggestion anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi Tender, A coach should not tilt going through turnouts. Have a look at the king-pin conection from the bogies to the underframe. I increase the bearing surface of these two areas with metal washers to reduce coach body wobble, might work for you ! Regards Bazza Hi Bazza.The tilting only happened when consisting 2 2-BILs with the power cars at the outer ends due to occasional compression of the coupling (NEM) on the two centre bogies. Swapping them around so the power bogies are together as suggested (by judge dread) solved the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2013 Nothing should visibly tilt taking a corner when we are representing reality as closely as possible but a good number of us may be forced to use much sharper curve radii than would be ideal and have our trains take those at speeds which if scaled up would far exceed the maximum permitted by the prototype. Scale speed is a whole topic in its own right but so far as the 2Bil is concerned those thoughts are worth bearing in mind. Does the tilt still occur at slower speeds? If it does then something may indeed be amiss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted March 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2013 The first 2BIL has arrived from the Paignton Model Shop. The proprietor didn't get anything like his full order, so I'm feeling lucky today. At least I got one, at a very good price as well, after being 'bumped off' by others, so as they say "use your local model shop"...if you have one of course. AFAIAC it certainly looks the part. A couple of snaps of it in it's future home territory. More finishing work is being done on the first two boards of the viaduct. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Ran the 2x2Bil's together with the power cars in the centre and like you suggested, the problem went away (even with BEMF). Thanks for the suggestion. As my problem of carriage tilting through turnouts has been solved by running the 2x2Bils with the power cars together I don't think adding weight to the trailer carriages will be of any benefit, but thanks for the suggestion anyway. Hi Bazza. The tilting only happened when consisting 2 2-BILs with the power cars at the outer ends due to occasional compression of the coupling (NEM) on the two centre bogies. Swapping them around so the power bogies are together as suggested (by judge dread) solved the problem. Does the tilt still occur at slower speeds? If it does then something may indeed be amiss. Hi Gwiwer Thank you for your continued concerns regarding tilting when consisting 2 2BIL's. I no longer have this problem. Solution, run consists with power cars together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted March 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hi Gwiwer Thank you for your continued concerns regarding tilting when consisting 2 2BIL's. I no longer have this problem. Solution, run consists with power cars together. Sorry to hear you have this problem - running with two motorcoaches together was not unknown, but it seems to have been extremely uncommon (I think I found exactly one pic of BILs/HALs like this in all the books I've got) - for 4-coach combinations, both units pointing in the same direction seems to have been more common than motors at the ends, but both can be found. My own experience is limited to the two units I've so far got hold of, on an oval without any points but with 18" curves - they run adequately (coupled by kadees) in any orientation, but I'll obviously have to check the back-to-backs and review operation (if I intend to use two motorised units together) when I get a layout with points. One other thing to consider - is the trailer bogie on each of your motorcoaches correctly picking up current ? Apologies if you already mentioned this, but it's late and I don't have time to go back through the pages. I recall someone mentioned a problem on one unit. ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2013 running with two motorcoaches together was not unknown, but it seems to have been extremely uncommon Luck of the draw as far as the depots were concerned; coupling in pairs was random to all intents and purposes. Units became "turned" in traffic when they worked around triangles and through some of the more convoluted London suburban routes. I wouldn't like to suggest one formation was any more nor less common than any other and as far as I am aware there was never any restriction on units being coupled together. Operating staff often preferred a brake at each end meaning two units with trailers coupled suited them best. A couple of snaps of it in it's future home territory. Excellent. Just needs headcode 14 fitted now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Sorry to hear you have this problemNo, like i tried to emphasise in my last post, I no longer have this problem Luck of the draw as far as the depots were concerned; coupling in pairs was random to all intents and purposes. Units became "turned" in traffic when they worked around triangles and through some of the more convoluted London suburban routes. I wouldn't like to suggest one formation was any more nor less common than any other and as far as I am aware there was never any restriction on units being coupled together. Thanks Gwiwer Its good to know that this formation (motor cars together) was not un-prototypical. Edited March 7, 2013 by tender Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purley Oaks Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I don't think that all dealers have received their stock of R3162 yet. My pre-order (18 December) at Cheltenham Model Centre has not yet been fulfilled because they are still awaiting stock of the DCC-ready model; they told me yesterday that they should be arriving soon. It looks a great model judging from the above pics on the viaduct. mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I don't think that all dealers have received their stock of R3162 yet. My pre-order (18 December) at Cheltenham Model Centre has not yet been fulfilled because they are still awaiting stock of the DCC-ready model; they told me yesterday that they should be arriving soon. It looks a great model judging from the above pics on the viaduct. mal Hi Purley Oaks, I know that we are not supposed to write about this, but I phoned though an order for a Hornby R3162X on the 1 March from the above and it arrived in New Zealand yesterday, and just in time for me to take it to my local model railway clubsThursday running night. It can't run on my layout yet until I get round to converting it to P4 gauge. I am still very imprested with this new Hornby model, in spite of the ommisions or small faults previously discussed on this web. When I took the 2BIL along to the club last night, I also took along a Bachmann 2EPB as a comparison. Out of the box, my never run by me before 2BIL, ran as well as my well run 2EPB. My only complaint is the horrible shiny whells of the Hornby model. Help!!! Now for all you who have purchased this Hornby 2BILmodel . When I took the two coaches of my 2BIL out of the box, two things fell off the model. The first item was a shoe- beam which I glued back on. The second item as me beat, I found it in the box after I took the two coaches out. It's black plastic about 10mm x 2mm x .5mm thick and looks like a guard iron for an N gauge locomotive. Does any one know what it is and where it belongs on the model ? Thank you. Bazza Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hi Tender, I still think that it could be a weight problem. I have just weighed my new Hornby 2BIL, the power car weighs 368g, but the driving trailer car only weighs 126g. After you experience with the model, I will definitely add extra weight to the driving trailer of my and future 2BIL's. Regards Bazza Hi GwiwerThank you for your continued concerns regarding tilting when consisting 2 2BIL's. I no longer have this problem.Solution, run consists with power cars together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 7, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2013 When all is said and done......and much has been said.....this is a beautiful model which runs as well as it looks. Praise be ! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 When all is said and done......and much has been said.....this is a beautiful model which runs as well as it looks. Praise be ! Amen! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 There is an excellent article about the Hornby 2-BIL EMUS by Evan Green-Hughes on pages 80 and 81 of the March 2013 Hornby Magazine. This has a picture of one aat Clapham Junction and two near Woking. All the pictures I have seen show the 2-BILs working in multiple units but if the train divided at Woking it should be possible to see them as two car units heading to Alton and Portsmouth Harbour. There is a review on pages 76 to 79 which says slow speed control is so fine that they were able to make the 2-BIL take 30 minutes to travel 6 feet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I would belive that, I took my 2BIL straight out of the box last night, put it on the club layout, set the DDCspeed step to 128, and watched it travel at about 1 scale mile per hour.(1.1579ft/min) After a few minutes and I got bored with that and opened it up to a scale 60 mph, well done Mr Hornby. Bazza There is an excellent article about the Hornby 2-BIL EMUS by Evan Green-Hughes on pages 80 and 81 of the March 2013 Hornby Magazine. This has a picture of one aat Clapham Junction and two near Woking. All the pictures I have seen show the 2-BILs working in multiple units but if the train divided at Woking it should be possible to see them as two car units heading to Alton and Portsmouth Harbour. There is a review on pages 76 to 79 which says slow speed control is so fine that they were able to make the 2-BIL take 30 minutes to travel 6 feet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 The slow-speed DCC running being reported is commendable, but I would have thought that a more pertinent benchmark, both for DCC and DC, would have been the smoothness and consistency of the acceleration. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestburyJack Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 According to the latest newsletter from Kernow, Hornby are now making an "A" version of the SR Olive Green 2BIL, R3161A, expected in June, as well as the BR Green version, R3162A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2013 The slow-speed DCC running being reported is commendable, but I would have thought that a more pertinent benchmark, both for DCC and DC, would have been the smoothness and consistency of the acceleration. Slow-speed running is a good clue to drive-train smoothness in my experience. Besides, accelerating out of stations with P&C would often produce jolting as the power was lost over points! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 That depends as much on the type of DC or DCC control that you have. I have just timed a model on my layout. I set the DCC (Atlas/Lenz) speed steps to 128, and by moving the contol at a rate of one speed step per second it is possible to accelerate a model like the Hornby 2BIL from rest to a scale 60 mph in about one and a half minutes and in that time it travelled over 50 foot of track. I could not time it any further as I had ran out of laid track. Most modellers would not take that long to accelerate to the 2BIL's line speed of 60mph, most would get to 60mph from rest by the time that the model got to the end of the platform and all the passengers had ended up in with guard. Bazza The slow-speed DCC running being reported is commendable, but I would have thought that a more pertinent benchmark, both for DCC and DC, would have been the smoothness and consistency of the acceleration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2013 Of course a smooth acceleration was not really what you would expect from old school third rail EMU's in 12" to the foot scale, especially if it is the crew's going home train and they are late... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) The 2 Bil (R3162X) arrived on Friday. It is being run on a DC layout even though it has a decoder on board, and seems to run very well in the forward direction (power car first). To get it to go in the opposite diredtion from rest is another matter. It won't - you crank the power up to full blast and give it a gentle push and - nothing. It sits there like a lump of lead grinning at you with a 2 Bil toothy smile. (I imagine that the 2 Bil face could have been the inspiration for Spongebob ) However if I drive it forwards and then reverse it, it will run very well - even slowly. It has been run it in in both directions and the problem still persists. I am thinking of leaving it running overnight but worry it might wind up damaged in some unexpected way... Sould I remove the decoder? Would this help to make it perform as designed expected? Do the Hornby models need a blanking chip? I notice it came without one - the few Bachmann models that came chipped all came with spare blanking plugs... Has anyone else experienced this problem?. Other than it's a lovely model but I still do wish Hornby would leave modelling EMU's to Bachmann and company... Edited March 10, 2013 by Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_R Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I've had this a number of times with the original Hornby decoders - loco runs OK in one direction on analog DC but either sits there or gives a little jump in the other direction. I changed the decoders to either a Bachmann or Lenz and no problems with the added advantage of much better running on DCC. I thought that the latest Hornby decoders were now free of this problem!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) More spares being offered on ebay, including full motor bogie assemblies etc. TMC are offering 2134 weathered, at a price... Edited March 10, 2013 by Oldddudders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I've had this a number of times with the original Hornby decoders - loco runs OK in one direction on analog DC but either sits there or gives a little jump in the other direction. I changed the decoders to either a Bachmann or Lenz and no problems with the added advantage of much better running on DCC. I thought that the latest Hornby decoders were now free of this problem!?! Thanks, this helps - I have removed the offending decoder and replaced it with a Bachmann blanking plug. All running characteristics have been vastly improved - it now runs superbly well in both directions on DC. It seems DCC does not really get on that well with DC - performance is better with the chip removed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2013 It seems DCC does not really get on that well with DC - performance is better with the chip removed... Not all DCC chips are created equal, and their response on DC mirrors that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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