Hornby Star Class

[Oldddudders]

Mine is winging its way down from Liverpool, so getting over excited! Must be all that sugar my sons gave me from last nights trick or treat!

 

Does anyone know the latest on Lode Star. I'm not sure the wife can take much more of "is it here yet"!

 

Considering the lateness of the Heavy Freight Tanks compared to the Star, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Although it might be the train coming towards us. Even so it does seem that lateness is getting less!

 

didcot

Good to see positive and enthusiastic anticipation, in some contrast to the messages deploring the model's apparent shortcomings. The presence of 2 extra spurious spokes in the bogie wheels, moulding imperfections on the boiler top and handrail fudges can't alter the fact that this is the first 4mm RTR Star in my lifetime, and those who choose to shun it are at liberty to pay three times the price - at least - for a kit-built version professionally painted. Forget what Hornby could/should/would have done, and accept the fact of an RTR model of a class of GWR express passenger locomotive not seen before in this scale.

[gwrrob]

Good to see positive and enthusiastic anticipation, in some contrast to the messages deploring the model's apparent shortcomings. The presence of 2 extra spurious spokes in the bogie wheels, moulding imperfections on the boiler top and handrail fudges can't alter the fact that this is the first 4mm RTR Star in my lifetime, and those who choose to shun it are at liberty to pay three times the price - at least - for a kit-built version professionally painted. Forget what Hornby could/should/would have done, and accept the fact of an RTR model of a class of GWR express passenger locomotive not seen before in this scale.

 

Very true Ian but I wonder how much song and dance there would be if it had happened on a bogie for a model of Mallard or Flying Scotsman assembled by those Chinese/Indian/wherever workers.

Edited November 1, 2013 by gwrrob

[Gruffalo]

Gresley pacifics probably appeal to a wider audience than less famous and older GWR designs Robin, that might mean larger volumes but also may dilute the debate somewhat. A good few contributors on here I think are questioning the issues based not upon their focus upon matters GWR but on a balanced view as collectors and modellers of other eras and areas. The thread title might not draw attention for anyone whose sole interest is another company / period so it is to me not surprising there are people willing to be critical of what seems (and I haven't seen one yet) to be a step backwards by Hornby.

 

I honestly do fancy one, and have ever since its announcement. I think that, for me at least, Ian (Olddudders)'s comment at 439 is very valid - and I have and continue to build a range of kits because I enjoy that too.

[robmcg]

 the heady days of yore which would tie in with what Simon Kohler indicated when he said it would be a year before things settled down.

 

Indeed there have been packaging issues and some detail issues, like the wrong front wheels on the Star oddly nobody including myself noticed this in the catalogue pics, so it must have been an 'error' from almost day one.

 

I will possibly replace the front wheels (I can find something better), and eventually lightly weather my 4018 when it arrives (about 1 week) , unless it has as warped frame, in which case I will choose between trying to fix it, a la Bachmann A1 cab, or as a last resort, sending it back undamaged for a refund (£30 postage @ £15 each way wasted).

 

Nobody who has seen a production version has yet shown us a repeat of the awful front running plate of that in the glass case a couple of pages back, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Shades of the Bachmann Standard 4MT 2-6-4T...   nobody that I read mentioned that rather unfortunate concoction of mis-aligned bent parts in at least one production run, which stayed on shelves until sold. But I digress. I'm really just like a kid at Christmas waiting for a present!

 

I'm tempted to ring someone who has the production model in their hands, like Kernows, who must have had some feedback if the models are genuinely unfit for purpose. But maybe I'll just wait.

 

Thanks to all who pointed out the GWR coach livery and detail variations relevant to my earlier post and question. I will be better able to make a believable picture....  something like this;

 

[robmcg]

Very true Ian but I wonder how much song and dance there would be if it had happened on a bogie for a model of Mallard or Flying Scotsman by those Chinese/Indian/wherever workers.

 

Have you seen the anguish among some when a tender valance beading is slightly 'wrong'?

 

A rather enjoyed seeing a Schools class official SR or BR photo with a mix of spoked and disc wheels under the tender.  But that's what you'd expect from thems down there....

[gwrrob]

What a cracking photo Rob.Can you recreate it please using that magic wand of yours.

[7013]

I agree I have been a bit critical of the way Hornby are going, however if we did not have this debate nothing would ever change. I also want Hornby to be right up there with the other manufacturers producing top class models, if people accept the model as it is, fine, however that does not detract from the fact it is wrong, even if it is a relatively minor but noticeable detail. I am quite capable of detailing the models hand rails etc, I can even change the bogie wheels. But, if I am going to shell out £100 + pounds for a model I expect those minor details to be researched and correct and to a level that reflects the price. God forbid we get to a stage whereby we accept models which are wrong because we have to feel grateful that a particular model is being made? Hornby can produce brilliant models, my Thompson O1 is one of my favourite locos of all time and I am a GWR man! So I have a right to feel disappointed when two locos I really like ( the 72xx and Star) are nowhere near the Standard of the 01yet will cost me more to buy.

[coachmann]

Good to see positive and enthusiastic anticipation, in some contrast to the messages deploring the model's apparent shortcomings. The presence of 2 extra spurious spokes in the bogie wheels, moulding imperfections on the boiler top and handrail fudges can't alter the fact that this is the first 4mm RTR Star in my lifetime, and those who choose to shun it are at liberty to pay three times the price - at least - for a kit-built version professionally painted. Forget what Hornby could/should/would have done, and accept the fact of an RTR model of a class of GWR express passenger locomotive not seen before in this scale.

Not often we dissagree but.........

 

Probably 95% of locos that have come out over the past 7 years are 'firsts' as far as plastic RTR models are concerned. But with Bachmann, we know handrails will be wire, we know bogie wheels wont have too many spokes, we know that wheels on Stanier locos will be bevel-rim, we know that 4-4-0 locos will be designed to run smoothly without any waddle, and we know the prices asked will be reasonable. Hornby on the otherhand is now unknown territory.

 

We didn't ask Hornby to make locos that appeal to scale modellers back in the year 2000, though I would think it had more to do entering a market the company could not have competed in with their old range and survival. Talk of comparing RTR with kits is outmoded today.....The world has moved on and Hornby's attempts to re-define it will fail so long as people remain resolute.

[Coach bogie]

I have an original print of the shot. It is by Maurice Early/NRM taken in 1930 of 4066 Malvern Abbey hauling a Birmingham - Paddington train with two H7 diners leading, heading out of Reading an about to enter Sonning Cutting.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[coachmann]

 

Thanks to all who pointed out the GWR coach livery and detail variations relevant to my earlier post and question. I will be better able to make a believable picture....  something like this;

 

Img_2710ab_r800.jpg

The two leading coaches in that 1930 picture are rather special Rob. They're composite dining cars (Dia.H7 of 1903), probably replaced by modern stock at some time in the 1930s.

[Guest 2750]

Very true Ian but I wonder how much song and dance there would be if it had happened on a bogie for a model of Mallard or Flying Scotsman assembled by those Chinese/Indian/wherever workers.

 

I honestly don't think pointing the finger at other railway companies/models is going to help. It surely comes down to Hornby's design clever move rather than favouritism towards the LNER as you see it. Have you been in the P2 thread...moulded handrails galore!

 

I came in here to sympathise with GWR modellers, but feel rather uncomfortable with the finger pointing towards a favouritism which I really doubt exists and it would be far better to be united over the issue of 'design clever' which I think we all aren't too keen on.

Edited November 1, 2013 by 2750

[robmcg]

Thanks Larry and Mike for the photo details ...   and while the great engine of international packet airmail moves onwards, I am left with option of photographing an 01, a Merchant Navy or a T9...  

 

The last mentioned, now THERE is an example of Hornby getting MOST things 'right',  albeit there were traction issues on some, and the tender wheel guard irons needed to be reversed on some 6-wheeler tenders, and the injector exhaust pipes between the engine driving wheels were reversed...  all were got right eventually, so one presumes Hornby will get the Star right in every detail too, eventually...

 

Will we get an EM gauge finescale wheel option for an extra few quid please?  With code 75 bullhead track....?    

Edited November 1, 2013 by robmcg

[gwrrob]

 

 

I came in here to sympathise with GWR modellers, but feel rather uncomfortable with the finger pointing towards a favouritism which I really doubt exists and it would be far better to be united over the issue of 'design clever' which I think we all aren't too keen on.

 

No need to feel uncomfortable Tom but my above post was borne out of frustration more than anything.I was in my local model shop today and I saw the recent Hornby shunters truck, nearly there but not quite Hornby.There's always something.Smokebox number on 5011,B4 bogies on a b set.Now these bogies.

 

I don't know the answer.Vote with my wallet.No, as Old Dudders says it's the only 4mm rtr Star we're going to get.They can make up for it with the release of some relevant GWR coaches.

[Oldddudders]

Not often we dissagree but.........

 

Probably 95% of locos that have come out over the past 7 years are 'firsts' as far as plastic RTR models are concerned. But with Bachmann, we know handrails will be wire, we know bogie wheels wont have too many spokes, we know that wheels on Stanier locos will be bevel-rim, we know that 4-4-0 locos will be designed to run smoothly without any waddle, and we know the prices asked will be reasonable. Hornby on the otherhand is now unknown territory.

 

We didn't ask Hornby to make locos that appeal to scale modellers back in the year 2000, though I would think it had more to do entering a market the company could not have competed in with their old range and survival. Talk of comparing RTR with kits is outmoded today.....The world has moved on and Hornby's attempts to re-define it will fail so long as people remain resolute.

I do not seek in any way to defend Hornby, or their apparent lack of attention to details that matter. My mention of kit-built is just to try and put some £ perspective into this sad thread. I am just a bit baffled by the apparent willingness to not buy a model of a "new" prototype, because it could & should have been better. In short, either a modeller "needs" a Star, or he/she doesn't. In the real world that I try to inhabit, this is the only 4mm RTR Star in the foreseeable future, and, for one of those who "needs" it then not buying it is, to my mind, cutting off the nose to spite the face. The models are out there, and you might wait a lifetime for a better one.

[robmcg]

Maybe the way the new BR Mk1s have appeared, or will soon, points to the way ahead for models of coaches without the detail and fragility and expense of, for instance, the Hawksworths, and Thompson/Gresley non-vestibule stock?

 

Although the kind of new mouldings required for flush-glazed nicely-detailed 1920-30s GWR-built stock could be, um, challenging?

 

I know others have discussed various candidates before, and the only sure way to have RTR coaches would be if we all bought scratch-builds off Larry!

[robmcg]

I do not seek in any way to defend Hornby, or their apparent lack of attention to details that matter. My mention of kit-built is just to try and put some £ perspective into this sad thread. I am just a bit baffled by the apparent willingness to not buy a model of a "new" prototype, because it could & should have been better. In short, either a modeller "needs" a Star, or he/she doesn't. In the real world that I try to inhabit, this is the only 4mm RTR Star in the foreseeable future, and, for one of those who "needs" it then not buying it is, to my mind, cutting off the nose to spite the face. The models are out there, and you might wait a lifetime for a better one.

 

So far the errors pointed out have been the 'cost-cutting' of handrails and the wrong number of spokes, all the rest is speculation.

 

But the moulded cab handrails are fair criticism, and I, like you would and will still buy one. If the frame is warped then I will have a replacement under consumer law.

 

Still waiting for Christmas!

 

Rob

 

edit; todays MRE has a consumer reaction to the KoGC 4018 with no mention of frames, spokes or handrails but plenty about the history of the Stars modelled by Hornby, and as Pat Hammond often says, 'Each to Their Own'...

Edited November 1, 2013 by robmcg

[7013]

" I am just a bit baffled by the apparent willingness to not buy a model of a "new" prototype, because it could & should have been better."

 

Because it could/should have been better for the price that is being asked for it, I do not 'need' a Star however I would like one and I would work on correcting the shortcomings, but as far as I am concerned it is too expensive for what is on offer. NRM City of Truro vs Steam Star similar price, but CoT standard of quality is was I would expect for that price, close in price gulf in quality.

[robmcg]

My 4018 arrived from Kernows just now, photos in 2 hrs

[Roy P]

........ In short, either a modeller "needs" a Star, or he/she doesn't.........

 

The worry might be how many units will they shift if they only sell to those who "need" them. Unless something is a genuine bargain it will have to appeal on another level. That goes for any model of any prototype by any manufacturer.

RP

[The Fatadder]

I do not seek in any way to defend Hornby, or their apparent lack of attention to details that matter. My mention of kit-built is just to try and put some £ perspective into this sad thread. I am just a bit baffled by the apparent willingness to not buy a model of a "new" prototype, because it could & should have been better. In short, either a modeller "needs" a Star, or he/she doesn't. In the real world that I try to inhabit, this is the only 4mm RTR Star in the foreseeable future, and, for one of those who "needs" it then not buying it is, to my mind, cutting off the nose to spite the face. The models are out there, and you might wait a lifetime for a better one.

 

Given that I certainly fall into this category, in that I had planned to buy a star and as a result of the moulded handrails in particular certainly wont be buying one.  My loco buying falls into 2 catagories, stock needed for the layout (a star isn't), and stock needed for the next layout (a star might be).  Coupled with a desire to have models of the major GW classes post ww2.

 

My  buying decision is simple, it has moulded handrails (something I couldn't stand on diesel models in the late 90s let alone a brand new release costing over £100.)  Couple to this the risk of a dodgy footplate, and a finish which doesn't look quite to the high standard of the Castle and 2800s that Hornby have previously released leaves me thinking its not worth the money.  (In particular that the price differential between it and a top spec kit is not that high (I am ignoring wheels which would be replaced anyway).  Plus the kit gives the extra enjoyment value of the build.

 

This is then compounded by the fact that I was expecting a model to the same standard as the Castle, and what has been delivered isn't.  Hornby haven't lived up to the expectation which naturally leaves a sour taste.

 

At the end of the day, as with the large GW tanks before it, I can see myself buying a Hornby Star at some point.  but as with the 42xx currently sat on my workbench, it is going to come via ebay in damaged condition for a much more sensible amount.  For the time being I would rather spend my £130 on a decent model worthy of that price tag, so another Castle it will be I think....

[The Stationmaster]

I do not seek in any way to defend Hornby, or their apparent lack of attention to details that matter. My mention of kit-built is just to try and put some £ perspective into this sad thread. I am just a bit baffled by the apparent willingness to not buy a model of a "new" prototype, because it could & should have been better. In short, either a modeller "needs" a Star, or he/she doesn't. In the real world that I try to inhabit, this is the only 4mm RTR Star in the foreseeable future, and, for one of those who "needs" it then not buying it is, to my mind, cutting off the nose to spite the face. The models are out there, and you might wait a lifetime for a better one.

I think that's a sensible view Ian - as I've said before of the 8 coupled tanks - 'I've waited over 40 years for them and a few more months won't make much difference'.  But I do think at the same time we have a right to be critical of some aspects of Hornby's performance and pricing as I outlined in an earlier post today and I equally think we have a right to be critical of the quality or otherwise of manufacture.  I've bought my little fleet of 8 coupled tanks - they're the only ones in town and the overall body outline is good but I have rejected/returned models which equal in number 40% of that fleet because of defects in manufacture or possibly a consequence of poor design (or both), and all I got from Simon Kohler was 'you can send it back' and 'the factory is on a learning curve'.  Well if the goods aren't up to standard they shouldn't even be on a retailer's shelf in my opinion.

 

But at the same time a number of folk happily bought Bachmann's eroneous 'Modified Hall' with no comeback whatsoever to the retailers - clearly you can sell some incorrect items to some of the people some of the time, but I suspect you can't sell them to all of the people all of the time.  I'm not going to cancel either of my pre-ordered 'Stars' but I still take the view that compared with directly comparable Hornby products such as the 'Grange' and the 'Castle' they represent poor value for RRP money because of their comparative shortcomings.  I am not ordering a Hornby 'Hall' because - once they get the right bits on the right locos I think the Bachmann version offers a very acceptable product at a realistic price.

Edited November 1, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[Roy P]

Hornby did recently shelve a few items due to lack of advanced orders (I can only recall A3 Book Law but there were others). If their end users become increasingly reluctant to place pre orders with retailers until they see an item in the flesh, and retailers then hold back accordingly, what is the ultimate conclusion?

Conversely, there are a few items due shortly from elsewhere that I was confident enough to pre order unseen. These are awkward times for Hornby's railway division and I am saddened to witness it. I do believe that Hornby need to reassess it's position in the market. For all their corporate talk of "iconic brand", customer loyalty is not something to be taken for granted. In 2013 their customers have a choice and in effect will control events. The customer is really the market leader and the cash will go to the company that can keep up.

RP

[robmcg]

Here are a few photos of the GWR Star 4018 'Knight of the Grand Cross' received from Kernows here in NZ a few hours ago...   very attractive.

 

I'll just show the lot from receipt to unpacking then a few shots, some where I have started to tidy the backgrounds ...

 

Can't help looking at the wheels. Assembly not entirely straight with cylinders and a possible slight upward tilt in front running plate. As with Castles cab fall plate sits high as supplied, haven't tried to ease it downwards yet. Cab handrails not too obvious as mouldings, but would be nicer in wire. Permanently coupled .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robmcg]

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

[robmcg]

Judge for yourself whether 10 spoke front bogie wheels are better than 12-spoke...   done with editing.

 

I think Hornby have done a nice job around the front frame and bogie-bearer arm, looks nicer than on the Castle. Please note that I have very slightly changed and re-touched some areas around the front of the engine; straightening the cylinders and front valve gear slightly, and bending/skewing the front running plate very slightly, 1 deg. 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2013 by robmcg