Hornby Star Class

[robmcg]

35 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Hope it stays in one piece,Rob.Enjoy.

 

I'm curious about the delivery of freight with international passenger airlines in chaos and contraction, many unhappy stories unfolding right now, freight is piling up in ports and transit points, so I'm not expecting instant delivery!

 

I do hope you an yours are well, and thanks to all who have written nice rational and kind responses regarding my art.

[robmcg]

22 hours ago, robmcg said:

oops just realised I put this in the wrong thread, being about Hall class engines not Stars, but it is mildly similar... design clever, solid handrails etc...   sorry

 

 

Can anyone tell me the difference between Railroad Hall class engines and Main Range Hall class engines please?

 

Apart from packaging and provision of brake rods in main range.

 

I compare pictures of Railroad R3499 Helmingham Hall and R3205 Rood Ashton Hall  both late BR livery and can see obvious no differences. 

 

R3499

 

 

R3205

 

 

Note the apparent separate handrails at the tender rear on R3205 do not appear on the real model as here in Hattons' photo..  but I realise the side-on pic is a pre-production Hornby image.

 

 

Is it that the main range 4965 has black in the lining? As well as better packaging and brake rods supplied?

 

I ask because although both are hard to find these days, occasionally or the other might turn up in bargain bins. And I like them...   10-spoke front wheels and all!

 

Quote

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by robmcg

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, robmcg said:

 

 

Yes the R3205 main range Rood Ashton Hall has full lining, and brake rods supplied. 

[robmcg]

5 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Yes the R3205 main range Rood Ashton Hall has full lining, and brake rods supplied. 

 

Well, severely off thread now I bought a main range R3205 and a RR R3499 today so shall eventually after the Covid crisis be able to compare them....  one was from a NZ seller but I don't know if tracked post parcels are going very far.

 

It's interesting how similar the two models are, each cost under $NZ200 or UKP100. 6945 has later body style of course with fireman's tool tunnel.

 

R3205 main range

 

 

Railroad R3499  both pics courtesy Hattons

 

 

Who needs four cylinders anyway? 

 

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, robmcg said:

 

Well, severely off thread now I bought a main range R3205 and a RR R3499 today so shall eventually after the Covid crisis be able to compare them....  one was from a NZ seller but I don't know if tracked post parcels are going very far.

 

It's interesting how similar the two models are, each cost under $NZ200 or UKP100. 6945 has later body style of course with fireman's tool tunnel.

 

R3205 main range

 

 

Railroad R3499  both pics courtesy Hattons

 

 

Who needs four cylinders anyway? 

 

I hadn’t realised they had Rolled up a body for the Hall without fire iron tunnel as well. I thought it was just the one. Good on them for that. 

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Who needs four cylinders anyway? 

 

Bait dangled irresistibly.

 

Apparently, the GWR did. The Stars were reckoned one coach better than the Saints. There is also the question of Halls having to be driven without maximum cut-off and with regulators partly closed in order to avoid excessive vibration. 

 

Then there is the matter of the LMS “Improved Three-cylinder Castles”.

[atom3624]

The Rebuilt Scots perchance?

[No Decorum]

1 minute ago, atom3624 said:

The Rebuilt Scots perchance?

The Parallel Scots. The term was bandied about during their birthing pains – a very embarrassing episode for the LMS.

[The Stationmaster]

13 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Bait dangled irresistibly.

 

Apparently, the GWR did. The Stars were reckoned one coach better than the Saints. There is also the question of Halls having to be driven without maximum cut-off and with regulators partly closed in order to avoid excessive vibration. 

 

Then there is the matter of the LMS “Improved Three-cylinder Castles”.

Officially one (and a bit) coach better 'on the hilly bits', same load for both permitted on the flatter bits.

[Coach bogie]

The Great Western Echo for Spring 1974 has a centre spread image of a Star with FIFTEEN coaches in tow. Nine coaches of the main formation with six strengthers at the front. Not sure how that corresponds with official maximum permitted loading.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

The Great Western Echo for Spring 1974 has a centre spread image of a Star with FIFTEEN coaches in tow. Nine coaches of the main formation with six strengthers at the front. Not sure how that corresponds with official maximum permitted loading.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Maximum load (based of course on running to booked times) was 420 tons on the more level stretches, e.g Paddington - Reading.  The GWR doesn't seem to have published a total maximum load in its Passenger Load tables but it would probably have been higher if they had.  So load 15 sounds quite plausible although it would probably have been a bit over the 420 tons official load.

[robmcg]

A google search for GWR Star images brings up a Star c1930 with about 15 on, alas copyrighted so cannot be shown here, but very impressive indeed.

[7007GreatWestern]

Unfortunately I can't find my copy of O. S. Nock's book on Stars, Castles and Kings which describes some outstanding performances by Stars in the pre-War era. The following is from a far more recent source however:-

 

"The Stars had proved that they were quite capable of handling heavy loads at speed, as demonstrated by Old Oak Common allocated No. 4013 Knight of St Patrick, with Driver Morgans on the footplate. On 8 April 1914, the Wednesday before Easter, it hauled the midnight Paddington to Penzance service, comprising nineteen bogie coaches, from Bristol to Exeter in even time. On the following Bank Holiday, Monday, 13 April, the same locomotive, again with Driver Morgans in control, hauled the 6.27pm service, comprising seventeen bogie coaches, from Weston-super-Mare to Paddington, again in even time."

 

Waters, Laurence. Great Western Star Class Locomotives (Locomotive Portfolio Series) . Pen and Sword. Kindle Edition. 

 

I highly recommend Mr Waters' book.

 

Picking up on NoDecorum's point.....

"Who needs four cylinders anyway?"

"Apparently, the GWR did. The Stars were reckoned one coach better than the Saints. There is also the question of Halls having to be driven without maximum cut-off and with regulators partly closed in order to avoid excessive vibration. "

 

The Star and Hall used the same boiler, the Swindon Standard No1 which could be an outstanding steam raising unit. Unfortunately, I think it is widely agreed that the 'Hall' 

steam chest and passages didn't make optimum use of the available steam compared to the 'Star', 'Grange' or 28xx. The vibration you mention is the phenomenon of 'hunting', a two-and-fro pull at the drawbar causing a distinct shaking especially in the leading coach. It was quite common in the two cylinder designs (the 'Counties' were notorious for it) but not in the four cylinder machines (Stars, Castles, Kings).

 

The 'Stars' may have only been rated at one coach more than the Saints 'on paper', but the operating authorities and loco crew knew the gap between them was great than that.

 

 

 

 

[adb968008]

A bit late to the party on this,

 

The railroad hall lacks a bit of printing detail, subtle things like Tender ID / capacity plate, black lining, copper/ brass printing.

 

But overall the green lets them down, its too light. Ultimately I passed mine on in favour of the Bachmann Hall.. I think Hornbys shape is better, as is its performance, but the livery and the wheels (the thin tyres) let it down.

 

I kept 4953 in plain GWR green by Hornby, without the lining the green is less noticeable. If they get the green darker, like the recent Castle or the Brits/Bulleids etc i’d probably be back to it.

 

Still if you pick them up under £80 you've not much to complain about, the railroad ones were around £50 a few years ago.

[melmerby]

On 01/04/2020 at 06:38, robmcg said:

 

 

Who needs four cylinders anyway? 

 

If you are wedded to two sets of inside motion to drive the valves (like the GWR) you are pretty well stuck with 2 or 4 cylinders.

Finding room between the frames for a crank axle and motion for a third cylinder would be quite a challenge.

Holcroft did come up with a design for a conjugated gear which might have solved the problem.

The GWR however just used the simple expedient of 4 cylinders and rocking shafts to operate both valves on each pair of cylinders on a side.

 

Stanier's Coronation class follows the lead but reverses the layout e.g. outside motion with the inside valves driven by rocking shafts.

 

Bulleid managed with 3 cylinders & inside motion but with extremely unorthodox engineering and it was somewhat less than a huge success.

Edited April 7, 2020 by melmerby

[robmcg]

Finally photographed my 4013 Star...  lovely indeed, a bit of oil on the cylinder, only noticed after taking the photo, 10-spoke wheels, and fall plate lowered a bit.  Runs smooth as silk.

 

 

photo edited slightly, no great changes to the appearance of the model, just messed around with background, contrast, brightness, cropping and so on, as you do.

 

I might be in a minority but I think it's a better looking engine than a Castle.

 

Edit;  Ack!   I notice, finally, after all my admittedly minor tweaks, including a loose water trough shaft and handle on the front of the tender, that there are no handles on the smokebox.   Cleanly broken off, no sign of them, un-boxed and handled very carefully.   Most disappointing and not something I can fix, returning it to Kernow is not an option from NZ.  This is the third new engine bought in the year with smokebox handles broken or missing.  I guess it's a fact of life.  Adept modellers only . 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Edit to the above, to the great credit of RMweb and a generous reader who has helped me in the past a brass somebox handle kit is to be assembled and sent by mail to me, for a brother to fit when lockdown ends,  I am eternally grateful!  

 

It's very easy to look at a model and see only the bent or missing bits!

 

Cheers (and very aware that there are worse things happening in the world today)

[No Decorum]

11 hours ago, robmcg said:

Cheers (and very aware that there are worse things happening in the world today)

 

Which is why, Rob, we take refuge in here.

[Coach bogie]

Kernow selling 4013 @£86.99

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/53400/R3455-WSL-Hornby-GWR-Star-Class-Steam-Locomotive-number-4013

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Ian Hargrave]

25 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Kernow selling 4013 @£86.99

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/53400/R3455-WSL-Hornby-GWR-Star-Class-Steam-Locomotive-number-4013

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

The best so far.An excellent buy.The dreaded green is acceptable....well it is to me at any rate. Somewhere is a photo of 4013 taken by Eric Treacy at Chester c 1947  in  sparkling condition .She was then a Chester loco and it is suspected that the good Canon’s intentions to take the shot were known to the running shed beforehand.Hence she looked in her prime .This was unusual in an era noted for grime as opposed to shine.It was published in ‘Steam Up’ a little later.Catch a copy if you can.My original purchased by my late father for his nascent rail enthusiast son at about that time eventually fell to pieces. I managed to resurrect a copy five years ago. I treasure it.

 

[melmerby]

The star in the background at "Mallingford" (Bristol TM) at the end of the "Titfield Thunderbolt" is quite clean.

Possibly bulled up for the film.

[Coach bogie]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

The star in the background at "Mallingford" (Bristol TM) at the end of the "Titfield Thunderbolt" is quite clean.

Possibly bulled up for the film.

The fish bay has a Star on both sides. On the Bath Road side is Lyonshall Castle and 4056 Princess Margaret. The 'star' for me is the toplight brake third in chocolate and cream.

On the opposite side is another. It looks like 4053 Princess Alexandra but the boiler is wrong. Not seen here, but in the movie is the very large cover on the smokebox side which was unique to 4020 as far as I am aware  and I cannot find an image of 4053 with this boiler.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Coach bogie

[melmerby]

Do you you mean this one?:

 

It's quite clearly Princess Margaret when you stop the film at the right point.

It has the large cover.

 

I'll post a couple of clips

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Here's the two clips, sorry about the quality it's straight off the TV screen:

Princess Margaret 4056

 

Same loco a few frames later:

 

[Coach bogie]

37 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It's quite clearly Princess Margaret when you stop the film at the right point.

It has the large cover.

 

 4056 has been shunted to the other side for the shot. That answers that one then. I do not have the boiler records but it must have received the boiler from 4020 at some point.

Thanks

 

Mike Wiltshire