Hornby P2

[Andy Y]

I think spet0114 has his tongue firmly in cheek there.

[The Stationmaster]

 

Has Tony really seen a P2 in life Stationmaster? He looks no'but but a slip of a lad.....  

 

I doubt it Coach - that's why I said 'a Hornby P2'  (but my dad saw them in real life and was quite impressed by them).

[Ian Hargrave]

Bah! Load of rubbish - who's this Tony Wright anyway? Some johnny-come-lately I'll be bound. Can't take a word he says seriously.....

Are you really being serious,or is this a mischievous posting? If this is intended as tongue-in -cheek attempt to demonstrate a sense of humour,then it has gone down like a lead balloon.

[will5210]

Are you really being serious,or is this a mischievous posting? If this is intended as tongue-in -cheek attempt to demonstrate a sense of humour,then it has gone down like a lead balloon.

He needed a  or two

[Guest spet0114]

I think spet0114 has his tongue firmly in cheek there.

 

On the nose, Andy. Just a bit of fun.

 

 

Are you really being serious,or is this a mischievous posting? If this is intended as tongue-in -cheek attempt to demonstrate a sense of humour,then it has gone down like a lead balloon.

 

I always love the 'Lead Balloon' phrase, particularly when attributed to Keith Moon....

 

For what it's worth, I grew up reading Tony's articles in the RM in the 1980s and have nothing but respect for this particular guru.

 

Cheers!

Adrian

[robmcg]

Whilst the point about 2-8-2 haulage and rebuilt P2 Pacific haulage is well made, I would like to have seen what a Gresley A4 and Peppercorn A1, or even a Stanier Duchess would have made of that train. I bet a pound to a penny all the Pacifics would have slipped, though which one would have got the train moving would have been most interesting. I enjoyed the video and Tony's presentation.

 ....

I too would be interested in finding out which Pacific would do best in starting heavy loads, but all may have been bettered by a King? off thread, but hey...

[bluebottle]

I too would be interested in finding out which Pacific would do best in starting heavy loads, but all may have been bettered by a King? off thread, but hey...

 

Have you ever noticed that, no matter the subject under discussion, somebody will always manage to shoehorn the GWR into it?

[Colin_McLeod]

And there was me thinking he meant an LSWR King Arthur class

[Bon Accord]

Have you ever noticed that, no matter the subject under discussion, somebody will always manage to shoehorn the GWR into it?

 

It's the inferiority complex, they need to tell anyone who'll listen how good the G**** W****** (allegedly) was. All ripe stuff for psychiatry students!

[Bob Reid]

Well they had a shot of a King during the interchange trials.  Fortunately they gave it back....

[robmcg]

Well, we all know that Bulleid Pacifics never slipped.

[Grasslands]

Based on the BRM review it has a lovelly finish, and looks really great, but i must admit quite a bit of disappointment with the cab detail. I know alot of people wanted to see some cheaper model alternatives, but this model is still going to cost over or just under £100 and I can't quite fight past the feeling that we are being charged more for less. I would have personally paid the extra to get a model that is up to the detail spec of my Hornby A4s or current Bachmann output. I know there is the higher detail option, but it is just that: 'higher', not 'super'.

[Roy P]

Buying BRM from my local newsagent as I do, I have just read the P2 review. As no one else has mentioned it (I believe) I was interested in the phrase "The front end arrangement is a separate moulding joined invisibly between the drop in the footplate and the junction of smokebox and boiler."  This may indicate a built in option for alternative front end which would be a logical way of getting some mileage out of the model ( details aside maybe - or maybe not).

 

For the record I would have paid more for a full-fat version on the grounds that it would still be the only affordable R-T-R P2 we are likely to get even at double the price.

After an initial disappointment at Hornby's current direction I took a mental step backwards myself. Imagine if Hornby had ceased to be and a new manufacturer came up with the Star, DoG and P2 at these prices. I guess we might snap them up while mourning the passing of the old company we knew and loved.

 

If anyone has yet to read Tony Wright's review, may I suggest that you read the conclusion first. It helps to balance some of the the comments in the main text. Especially if you've been reading BRM since its begining (almost) and find the tone this time around a touch "unexpected"

RP

[micklner]

Buying BRM from my local newsagent as I do, I have just read the P2 review. As no one else has mentioned it (I believe) I was interested in the phrase "The front end arrangement is a separate moulding joined invisibly between the drop in the footplate and the junction of smokebox and boiler."  This may indicate a built in option for alternative front end which would be a logical way of getting some mileage out of the model ( details aside maybe - or maybe not).

 

For the record I would have paid more for a full-fat version on the grounds that it would still be the only affordable R-T-R P2 we are likely to get even at double the price.

After an initial disappointment at Hornby's current direction I took a mental step backwards myself. Imagine if Hornby had ceased to be and a new manufacturer came up with the Star, DoG and P2 at these prices. I guess we might snap them up while mourning the passing of the old company we knew and loved.

 

If anyone has yet to read Tony Wright's review, may I suggest that you read the conclusion first. It helps to balance some of the the comments in the main text. Especially if you've been reading BRM since its begining (almost) and find the tone this time around a touch "unexpected"

RP

No brainer if the Cock o the North sells well the A4 front end / perhaps even the Earl Marischall version will appear . Similar set up on the A1/A3's to vary the smokebox/front end on them too.

[davidw]

No brainer if the Cock o the North sells well the A4 front end / perhaps even the Earl Marischall version will appear . Similar set up on the A1/A3's to vary the smokebox/front end on them too.

 

May be even offered in a ficticious BR green livery....

[t-b-g]

I put a posting on the Hornby Interim Results thread about the way some people seem to view Hornby nowadays.

 

It seems that anything they do is wrong for some people. If a moulded handrail on a tender is such a dreadful thing to you, then you have some choices.

 

You can live with it, you can change it, you can decide not to buy the loco and try to kit/scratchbuild a better one, or you can decide not to have a P2 at all. Whichever anybody decides, it won't change the world and it won't cause Hornby to alter the model.

 

On top of that, there are further choices regarding how you convey your views on the model. You can take a fairly pragmatic approach and say that Hornby have produced a model to a particular specification and price and base any comments on what they have actually produced or you can go on about what Hornby could have or should have done (in your opinion).

 

Going on about what Hornby should or could have done achieves little but if anybody feels better for getting it off their collective chests then RMWeb does at least give people a platfom where they can whinge sorry, express their perfectly valid views that they have a right to air until the cows come home.

 

However did people manage before the web? All this negative energy trapped in with no way of releasing it.

 

I, for one, have read so many comments about moulded handrails (often by the same few people) that I am totally bored by them!

 

A few years ago, having a P2 that looks like the one in the photos for around £100 would have had us all drooling (and still does in my case).

 

We have been totally spoiled by the way that economic conditions allowed cheap and highly detailed models to be produced in the far east. Those days are ending for Hornby and for everybody else. Look at the Heljan O2 with a proposed price of around £185.

 

Something had to give in terms of price, quality and the ability of a manufacturer to get models onto the market. Hornby have chosen to lower the spec. slightly to keep prices down.

 

We all have the choice of either purchasing such models or not.

 

We also all have the option of whinging about it or not but if we are going to do that, please can we at least find something new and interesting to say rather than going over the same boring things time and time again?

 

For me, I think Hornby (and Tony Wright) have got their ideas just about right. At the advertised price I will be having a P2 but if it had been as little as £20 or £30 extra I would have been having second thoughts.

 

The P2 is a magnificent loco and I say well done to Hornby for bringing out such a great looking loco at a really sensible price.

 

Tony 

Edited November 16, 2013 by t-b-g

[Stevelewis]

As   an  old  modeller!!!!!!    Long  before   computers  and  probably   any meaningful  magazine  reveiws, I  can say in the  old  days,  we  were  happy  just  to get  a  new loco manufactured  usually  just  one  a  year if we  were  lucky!

 

I remember  the elation  that was  felt  when  Triang announced  their 'Sothern Electric',  back in around '58 (thats a guess),  It didnt matter  if  it  was  anywhere  near  the  correct   length  or  not or if  the gaps between cars   was grossly overscale, we  were just  glad to have something  that  we  didnt  have  before.

 

I think  a lot of the  critisim these days  comes from  the  fact  that  it is  far too easy  to  check  correctness ( internet, forums etc) and then become disappointed  that all is not quite  correct  but often  not far  from being  so.

 

I applaud the manufaturers of today  for  continuing  to  produce items  which  would  be  unheard of  even a few  years  ago ( P2,  D.O.G.,  GWR Citities, Duke, and  now The  Met B0 B0 electric)

 

Long  may it  continue

[Roy P]

I can't help but read that first bit as a Monty Python skit!    

 

RP

[melmerby]

May be even offered in a ficticious BR green livery....

Especially if the A1 trust's version goes through the livery changes as Tornado did!

 

Keith

 

Edit:

 

I wonder if Hornby could get some more Gresley Teaks produced to accompany CoTN as they are like hen's teeth in retailers just now.

Edited November 16, 2013 by melmerby

[Stevelewis]

I can't help but read that first bit as a Monty Python skit!    

 

RP

Yes  I  forgot  to  add  that  in  the  good  old  days,  we  used  to  get up before  the  sun  went  down played  with  our  trains  for  10 minutes  wnt  to  work  for  25 hrs  cam home  ( to  our  shoe  box  ) to eat the left  overs  from  last  week!! 

 

I was only  thinking  the  other  day,  we  dont  see much of  Monty Python on TV these days

 

I nearly  added ' You've never  had  it  so  good'  to the  end of my post but  thought  that  a  bit  too political!!

[neal]

Luxury!

[Guest spet0114]

As   an  old  modeller!!!!!!    Long  before   computers  and  probably   any meaningful  magazine  reveiws, I  can say in the  old  days,  we  were  happy  just  to get  a  new loco manufactured  usually  just  one  a  year if we  were  lucky!

 

I remember  the elation  that was  felt  when  Triang announced  their 'Sothern Electric',  back in around '58 (thats a guess),  It didnt matter  if  it  was  anywhere  near  the  correct   length  or  not or if  the gaps between cars   was grossly overscale, we  were just  glad to have something  that  we  didnt  have  before.

 

I think  a lot of the  critisim these days  comes from  the  fact  that  it is  far too easy  to  check  correctness ( internet, forums etc) and then become disappointed  that all is not quite  correct  but often  not far  from being  so.

 

I applaud the manufaturers of today  for  continuing  to  produce items  which  would  be  unheard of  even a few  years  ago ( P2,  D.O.G.,  GWR Citities, Duke, and  now The  Met B0 B0 electric)

 

Long  may it  continue

 

It's interesting that you mention the Triang EMU. It's always been a favourite of mine (though it pre-dates me by two decades!) along with the Grafar Black 5 and the Triang-Hornby A3. All three models have significant (certainly by modern standards) compromises in terms of prototypical accuracy, but that doesn't matter, they're just 'right' to my eye. They successfully conjure up an impression of the prototype and that's the key point. No OO gauge model will ever be perfect - there'll never be an exact 1:76 facsimile of the real thing - so there's not a lot of point striving for such things (IMO). Just use your eyes and your gut and see if a model speaks to your aesthetic sense. If it does, then all else is immaterial.

 

Disclaimer - The above is not tongue-in-cheek.

[Tony Wright]

Speaking as a 'Johnny Come Lately' (how apposite a description), may I thank those who've so far commented on my remarks about Hornby's P2? 

 

Regarding my visual presentation of the loco running, one or two points relating to that might be of further interest.

 

I was not part of the editing of the finished piece but it's a pity that one or two moments ended up on the 'cutting room floor'. Though you see the P2 actually pulling 23 carriages (almost half of which were either complete metal kits or adaptations), the footage of it actually starting that rake and the whole lot then passing by the camera was left out. A pity, though cynics might have suspected that a 'third party' was giving it a shove out of sight (in the same way that those same cynics might have thought the same third party was holding the end of the rake to prevent the A2/2 from taking it). As an aside, the A2/2 no longer runs as sweetly as it did because of the exertions imparted - I think I might have damaged the gearbox, though it has run for many years previously. The P2 suffered not at all, despite having one of its slidebars missing (nobody has noticed on this - BRM's front cover, top right, and my comment on it was omitted from the review).

 

Afterwards, I tested some other locos and, out of interest, these were the results hauling the same rake.

 

SE Finecast A4 with a D13 motor and DJH gearbox: initial slipping on starting, then it flew round, even faster than the P2.

 

Golden Age A4: initially, the rails underneath its drivers were burnished beautifully, and it got the rake just about going until a bend was encountered; then more rail polishing.

 

Several Hornby A4s (and A3s): less polishing of the rails (because they're not as heavy) but no forward movement.

 

Bachmann A4 (both chassis); no forward movement.

 

Bachmann A4 with SE Finecast replacement chassis (and lots of lead in the body): little forward movement but I didn't want to kn****r it!

 

Several DJH A1s: though they moved the load (slipping all the time), I felt that to wear out perfectly good locos was a bit excessive.

 

Several Bachmann Deltics: lots of noise and excessive slipping, but they just about got round (but not as well as the P2).

 

Lima Deltic with two power bogies: 23 carriages was a mere trifle. I couldn't find its maximum load because, after 35 carriages, the rake was 'imploding' on the bends.

 

The above observations are highly unscientific, highly subjective and have not been independently ratified. However, should you choose to believe what I've just posted, I think it's fair to say that Hornby's P2 is probably (in terms of tractive effort and its ability to actually shift a load) the most powerful, British-outline RTR steam loco currently available in OO. That it can pull more than an RTR loco costing in excess of £1,200 is really quite staggering. That it can pull more than many of my kit-built locos is also salutary.

 

I once had a Trix A2 with traction tyres on its grossly inappropriate German-style chassis' driving wheels which I recall once pulled 20 Hornby-Dublo SD Mk.1s, but it was hardly a scale 'model', especially with its corridor tender. I also had a Hornby-Dublo 'Deltic' which was pretty powerful but it wasn't very accurate to say the least.

 

So, even if the level of detail doesn't impress you on this P2, at least concede that in terms of power, there's nothing else to touch it. Since I don't have a 'King', 'MN' or 'Duchess' I cannot entirely qualify that last statement but I'll bet none of them beats this P2.

[coachmann]

Thanks for the above trials Tony. Just to add I wasn't questioning the hauling capacity of the P2, which is pretty impressive by any standards, but I merely pondered on how other Pacifics might fare apart from the A2/2.

 

The P2 interests me as I would almost certainly repaint it BR lined green. The revised history part is easy.....They were not rebuilt though they were moved away from Scotland in the late 1940s because of well-documented issues. York was one of their new bases and BR thought they could eliminate the double-heading of LMR locos on the Trans-Pennine services via Standedge. The the biggy is, could I live with myself afterwards!

Edited November 16, 2013 by coachmann

[t-b-g]

Thanks for the above trials Tony. Just to add I wasn't questioning the hauling capacity of the P2, which is pretty impressive by any standards, but I merely pondered on how other Pacifics might fare apart from the A2/2.

 

The P2 interests me as I would almost certainly repaint it BR lined green. The revised history part is easy.....They were not rebuilt in the war though they were moved away from Scotland in the late 1940s because of well-documented issues. York was one of their new bases and BR thought they could eliminate the double-heading of LMR locos on the Trans-Pennine services via Standedge. The the biggy is, could I live with myself afterwards!

 

There is a P2 running in BR Green on Retford and it looks quite at home. The number it runs with is 60993, which is what Mons Meg would have carried if it hadn't been converted.

 

You may need to come up with another good story to explain why 2001 didn't get the A4 style front end!

 

Plenty if us play fast and loose with locations and fictitious towns, lines and stations appear all over the place. Why not mess around with loco history too. Part of my fun in modelling is creating scenes that I never saw but wished that I had, so I am all in favour. 

 

Tony