Hornby P2

[melmerby]

Yep, just got that too. Mine was for my dad's 70th in two weeks - I think he will be lucky to get this for Xmas now.

Maybe for his 80th?

 

Keith

[Hroth]

On 15th April 2012 Hattons informed me that Duchess of Abercorn was due on or after 14th September 2012 and they were absolutely correct, it was delivered on 27th March 2014.

 

What they meant is that as the model has not yet been made, packed and on the boat there is no way on earth it will be here before that date.

You do have to remember that this period was also when Sanda Kan was going down the tubes in a spectacular manner. That Hornby managed to rescue Abercorn and get it out early this year is something to be thankful for.   At least they didn't just cancel it.  I'm looking forward to getting my P2 RSN (Real Soon Now!).  I ordered the Railroad version and I suspect we'll see that first as it doesn't have the degree of painted/separately added detail that the main range version will have. 

[James Harrison]

"Available on or after 2nd September 2014..."

 

Another delay... more frustration...

 

... I might have mine put away for Christmas, assuming it does actually arrive in September (or October, November or December...)

[Bulleidboy100]

This was on the Hornby site date 21.7.2014 (Yesterday).

 

One of the most eagerly awaited Hornby models of 2014 will soon be released and available to purchase. This fantastic tooling will be available on three different models, offering a wide variety of collectors the chance to own this iconic engine.

The first to arrive, currently due in this month, is the R3171 RailRoad version of the 'Cock O' The North' which offers this brand new engine at our most affordable price.

Following in August are the other two versions, the R3207, which is super-detailed and DCC Ready, with the last version,R3246TTS, offering the same level of detail as well as superb sound for collectors operating a DCC layout.

We know that you'll be as excited as we are that these locomotives are on the horizon and, with that in mind, we wanted to share this video showing off the TTS Sound 'Cock O' The North' in all its glory!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Bulleidboy100

[Hilux5972]

Have just watched the video. Sounds absolutely fabulous. Cannot air for this release. Well die. Hornby.

[SDJR7F88]

TTS sure does sound good! Such a shame the basic sound function (i.e. movement) will not work on DC, like other the other DCC sound locos. Would have to get one other wise.   Maybe a product for the future, think basic DC sound would be a good product for the Railroad range...

[JSpencer]

Looks great the TTS sound one and the big surprise it will be out at the same time as the detailed model.

 

Hornby certainly seem back on the game...

[Mike at C&M]

The expected release dates have just been changed on the trade website:

   R3171 (Railroad)                         due into Hornby week commencing 5th September

   R3207 (main range)                    due into Hornby week commencing 12th September

   R3246TTS                                   due into Hornby around 16th September.

 

This goes very much against what 'Bulleidboy100' has just quoted from the Hornby website.

 

So why can't we have a single set of information, rather than the hype they will be here imminently. I have already had one irate customer in demanding to know why it is not here in July, when Hornby had assured him that it would be so, just a few weeks ago.

 

Traders also now face the spectre of people seeing the reviews, website videos etc. and deciding they will have one, when just about every shop will have all their allocation spoken for with pre-orders. Traders have been unable to order further stocks from Hornby for months.

 

For those of us behind the counter, this promises to be the most frustrating model yet!

[melmerby]

The expected release dates have just been changed on the trade website:

   R3171 (Railroad)                         due into Hornby week commencing 5th September

   R3207 (main range)                    due into Hornby week commencing 12th September

   R3246TTS                                   due into Hornby around 16th September.

 

This goes very much against what 'Bulleidboy100' has just quoted from the Hornby website.

 

So why can't we have a single set of information, rather than the hype they will be here imminently. I have already had one irate customer in demanding to know why it is not here in July, when Hornby had assured him that it would be so, just a few weeks ago.

 

Traders also now face the spectre of people seeing the reviews, website videos etc. and deciding they will have one, when just about every shop will have all their allocation spoken for with pre-orders. Traders have been unable to order further stocks from Hornby for months.

 

For those of us behind the counter, this promises to be the most frustrating model yet!

Oh dear!

 

Just when we thought things were starting to become clearer Hornby have stirred up the mud again.

Once again it gives the impression (maybe correctly) that the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

TTS sure does sound good! Such a shame the basic sound function (i.e. movement) will not work on DC, like other the other DCC sound locos. Would have to get one other wise.   Maybe a product for the future, think basic DC sound would be a good product for the Railroad range...

Perhaps the lack of DC operation is one of the reasons TTS is much cheaper than other sound systems?

I wonder how it compares to Bachmann USA Sound Value locos which are also somewhat cheaper than the norm?

 

Keith

[S.A.C Martin]

Am I the only person who doesn't think that sounds much like a Gresley 3-cylinder loco? Some of it sounds like Tornado: a believable comparison, but at other times it sounds less so and more like a two cylinder loco. Not sure on the chime whistle (the P2s had a specific type which sounds different to the A4 type which seems to have been used) and I'm left wondering if it's worth the extra cost.

 

I am sure it'll be fine for many people and they'll have fun with it. It's not for me though. Roll on the Railroad release - the big one I am looking forward to.

[Guest 2750]

If I correct Simon, the P2s had the same whistle as the pre war A4s...lower in pitch than the post war type we are familiar with.

Edited July 22, 2014 by 2750

[S.A.C Martin]

If I correct Simon, the P2s had the same whistle as the pre war A4s...lower in pitch than the post war type we are familiar with.

 

Yes, that was what I recalled too Tom. That means the one being used on the P2 model is definitely too high pitched. Was it a Crosby type whistle on the P2s I think?

[Guest 2750]

I think it was a Crosby whistle. I seem to remember 60163 running with a Crosby a couple of years back before reverting to her current one (Golden Eagles isn't it).

[SDJR7F88]

Perhaps the lack of DC operation is one of the reasons TTS is much cheaper than other sound systems?

I wonder how it compares to Bachmann USA Sound Value locos which are also somewhat cheaper than the norm?

 

Keith

Yes, that's the info I heard. Shame really. Wonder how much more would they cost if they could make the DC compatible, or even a DC sound range. Think that would make a great little range of the Railroad market.   

[AdamOrmorod]

If I correct Simon, the P2s had the same whistle as the pre war A4s...lower in pitch than the post war type we are familiar with.

Correct, the original Crosby chime whistles fitted to the A4s and P2's produced a chord of F minor, whereas the post war ones are F# minor (both second inversion), a semitone higher (one key to the right on a piano) than the former. The group building No. 2007 state in their May 2014 "Mikado Messenger" that they hope to get a whistle of the correct lower pitches for their engine, as opposed to the higher pitched ones on the A4s (save 4489) and Tornado.

 

Am I the only person who doesn't think that sounds much like a Gresley 3-cylinder loco? Some of it sounds like Tornado: a believable comparison, but at other times it sounds less so and more like a two cylinder loco. Not sure on the chime whistle (the P2s had a specific type which sounds different to the A4 type which seems to have been used) and I'm left wondering if it's worth the extra cost.

 

I am sure it'll be fine for many people and they'll have fun with it. It's not for me though. Roll on the Railroad release - the big one I am looking forward to.

Having checked it with several instruments and youtube clips, I came to the same conclusion about the whistle being the later F# minor, post war type. It does feel like a 2 cylinder loco too, a definite "1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4," as opposed to the 3 cylinder "1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,", though I cannot work out why, as all 4 other TTS sound steam locos (Gresley A1, Gresley A4, Peppercorn A1 and BR Standard class 8 )are also 3 cylindered locos, so I'm not sure what Hornby have done to one of these files, most likely the A4, to create the P2's arrangement. As Hornby have stated that they will use recorded sounds of the prototype where possible (and they couldn't have recorded a locomotive type which doesn't currently exist, so they must have used one of their other files), I'm going to hold out for the inevitable TTS "Prince of Wales" once the new build is finished, provided Hornby don't just recycle the sounds from the R3246TTS.

 

Edited to remove accidental 8) due to an 8 being next to a ).

Edited July 28, 2014 by Ade the Pianist 4468

[bigwordsmith]

I'm not keeping up here. Would somebody mind explaining what is TTS, and is this widely available/ appropriate for my stock of Legacy and recent locos, as I can't afford to go for DCC

[Guest 2750]

Correct, the original Crosby chime whistles fitted to the A4s and P2's produced a chord of F minor, whereas the post war ones are F# minor (both second inversion), a semitone higher (one key to the right on a piano) than the former. The group building No. 2007 state in their May 2014 "Mikado Messenger" that they hope to get a whistle of the correct lower pitches for their engine, as opposed to the higher pitched ones on the A4s (save 4489) and Tornado.

 

Thanks's for that Ade (Guessing you are a pianist). I'm a professional violist and teach violin in schools, so I find this very interesting.

 

Shame the prewar chimes were destroyed. I have a DVD where they put a Crosby Chime on 60007 to demonstrate the sound. It does sound quite different.

[Hilux5972]

I'm not keeping up here. Would somebody mind explaining what is TTS, and is this widely available/ appropriate for my stock of Legacy and recent locos, as I can't afford to go for DCC

TTS is Hornby's new low cost range of dcc sound. Installed in several railroad locomotives as well, this effectively means you can have dcc sound for less than the cost ad a brand new high spec Class 60 model. It's a fantastic way to bring sound to a lot more people. Hornby have developed their own sound decoder for this range, as adding the ESU decoder a pushed the price well over £200.

[AdamOrmorod]

It'd be nice if they could put one on Bittern, to get the full pre-war A4 effect.

 

I'm not keeping up here. Would somebody mind explaining what is TTS, and is this widely available/ appropriate for my stock of Legacy and recent locos, as I can't afford to go for DCC

If you go onto the Hornby site and hover over "locomotives", there is a link labelled "TTS Digital Sound Locomotives" in the dropdown list. Click on it, and you will see that there are 8 forthcoming locomotives that will be fitted with "twin track sound". As none of these locomotives have been released, none of us know what this sound will be like, but it's priced far lower than previous DCC sound locomotives, but you can get an idea with this video of the TTS P2 http://www.Hornby.com/news/the-lner-cock-o-the-north-p2-class-approaches

If you listen carefully to the "chuffs", you can feel a beat going "1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4". However, for a P2 (and in fact all of the announced TTS steam locomotives) its three cylinder arrangement means that this should be more "1,2,3,1,2,3".

 

Edited as Hilux5972 just beat me to it.

Edited again to fix link.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Ade the Pianist 4468

[Colin_McLeod]

If a two cylinder loco has a beat of 1,2,3,4; 1,2,3,4;....   does the three cylinder not have a beat of  1,2,3,4,5,6;1,2,3,4,5,6;.... ?

[AdamOrmorod]

I suppose that would be a more accurate description on paper, but if you listen to an A4 for example, it feels more "1,2,3;1,2,3" to most people, as opposed to "1,2,3,4,5,6". However, a 2 cylinder loco does have a beat of "1,2,3,4;1,2,3,4". It all depends on how the beats are accented, so as there are usually 2 accented beats out of 6 on a 3 cylinder loco (especially if it is equipped with conjugated valve gear), meaning two separate groups of three beats, with the accented beats being the first of each group. The lack of accenting on a two cylinder loco means that the slightly different sounds of the cylinders is what splits it into groups of four, the first beat sounding like the fifth and so on.

[Bulleidboy100]

The expected release dates have just been changed on the trade website:

   R3171 (Railroad)                         due into Hornby week commencing 5th September

   R3207 (main range)                    due into Hornby week commencing 12th September

   R3246TTS                                   due into Hornby around 16th September.

 

This goes very much against what 'Bulleidboy100' has just quoted from the Hornby website.

 

So why can't we have a single set of information, rather than the hype they will be here imminently. I have already had one irate customer in demanding to know why it is not here in July, when Hornby had assured him that it would be so, just a few weeks ago.

 

Traders also now face the spectre of people seeing the reviews, website videos etc. and deciding they will have one, when just about every shop will have all their allocation spoken for with pre-orders. Traders have been unable to order further stocks from Hornby for months.

 

For those of us behind the counter, this promises to be the most frustrating model yet!

 

 

I just assumed that if Hornby were announcing an arrival, which in the first instance could be measured in days, they must know that it is on the ship.  Perhaps there has been a storm! 

[bigwordsmith]

My father was a long time railway fan and also a jazz drummer.

 

He  described a two cylinder beat as 'Choof Choof, Choof Choof'

 

A Three cylinder beat he described as  'Chickety, Chickety, Chickety, Chickety'

 

and a Four Cylinder beat as 'chu-chu-chu-chu, chu-chu-chu-chu, '

 

I know signs of a misspent childhood that I still recall them, even though I was too young to see them!

[AdamOrmorod]

Chi-cke-ty- three syllables, each representing one beat, with each "chickety" being a group of three, and two "chickety"s being a full revolution, which pretty much explains what I was trying to get across before.

However, I'm confused about the 4 cylinder description. I thought a 4 cylinder loco had 2 pairs of cylinders working exactly opposite each other (so when one was all the way forward, the other was all the way back) so the chuffs would be at the same time, still resulting in 4 chuffs per revolution? I've spent a fair bit of time trying to fathom how LMS and GWR four cylinder locos worked, and looking (and listening) to many youtube, along with many undescriptive explanations on the internet, resulted in my conclusion, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong with a good explanation.