Hornby P2

[pauliebanger]

My father was a long time railway fan and also a jazz drummer.

 

He  described a two cylinder beat as 'Choof Choof, Choof Choof'

 

A Three cylinder beat he described as  'Chickety, Chickety, Chickety, Chickety'

 

and a Four Cylinder beat as 'chu-chu-chu-chu, chu-chu-chu-chu, '

 

I know signs of a misspent childhood that I still recall them, even though I was too young to see them!

 

Not entirely correct. 2 and 3 cylinder are as your dad described, but 4 cylinders sound like two cylinders but a lot louder, as the exhaust from two of the four cylinders vent at the same time.

 

The exception in UK outline was the Lord Nelson which had eight separate exhaust beats per wheel revolution. 

 

To my ears, the Hornby P2 chuffs are clearly playing a 6 beat pattern, though not synchronised to the wheel rotation. 

 

Is it worth the extra? Are you kidding? A mainline sound loco of an undreamed of R-T-R prototype only £25 more than the non-DCC equivalent.

Last time I checked, the Hornby Sapphire non sound decoder was over £30 retail. So it would be cheaper to by theTTS version and run it with the sound off if you don't like what you hear.

 

Get a grip. Bargain of the year. Of course at this price there will be compromises, and it's a shame for DC users that this DCC sound decoder only plays sounds on DCC. But why add to the cost for their target (and growing) audience, DCC users, to cater for a dwindling number of DC users, only a small percentage of whom want sound anyway?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not decrying analogue, which works as well as it has always done, but this product is clearly aimed squarely at DCC users.

 

If it sounds as good in real life as in the video, Hornby have got a winner at the lower end of the market and will introduce a lot of very happy people to sound and to DCC and many will wonder how they ever managed without it.

 

Rather than moaning about possible shortcomings, real or imagined, I think Hornby should be applauded for daring to introduce new(ish) technology at bargain basement prices.

 

Not everyone will be won over, especially as it is a bit uncool to praise Hornby these days, but frankly Hornby will sell a shed load of these if they can get them into the shops quickly enough. That's another issue, of course.

 

I've read that these are normal 8 pin decoders, so they can be removed and different decoders substitued. The existing speaker could probably be retained.

 

I noticed that the DoG did not have tender pick-ups, but the chassis mouldings look as if they were designed to accomodate them and a tender to loco linking socket. I suspect this to be for tender pick-ups on the TTS DoG to improve contact for the sound decoder.  If this is carried over to the P2, then I would rather have the TTS version with tender pick-ups fitted even if I did not intend to use TTS sound. I accept that this is speculation, but it's not an unreasonable inference to draw.

 

As for Bachmann 'Value Sound' that seems to have been cancelled. The stuff I heard was not as good as TTS sounds in the video yet still added around £60-£70 to the cost of the non-sound loco. Strategic withdraw, perhaps?

 

These are just my opinions, other people's are just as valid as mine.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Edited July 23, 2014 by pauliebanger

[pauliebanger]

Chi-cke-ty- three syllables, each representing one beat, with each "chickety" being a group of three, and two "chickety"s being a full revolution, which pretty much explains what I was trying to get across before.

However, I'm confused about the 4 cylinder description. I thought a 4 cylinder loco had 2 pairs of cylinders working exactly opposite each other (so when one was all the way forward, the other was all the way back) so the chuffs would be at the same time, still resulting in 4 chuffs per revolution? I've spent a fair bit of time trying to fathom how LMS and GWR four cylinder locos worked, and looking (and listening) to many youtube, along with many undescriptive explanations on the internet, resulted in my conclusion, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong with a good explanation.

 

You are correct regarding most 4 cylinder types; opposing pairs of cylinders and quartering give the characteristic 4 beats to a (driving) wheel revolution.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[WD0-6-0]

I'm really glad I preordered the TTS P2, it sounds fantastic and I can't wait to get my hands on it and have it running. As for it being uncool to praise Hornby I'd like to say they have impressed me greatly recently, the sound and looks of this model and the speed at which they repaired my faulty B17 recently was fantastic so although this one has taken a while to get here, when it does in the next few months I'm sure it'll be worth it.

Rhys

[Guest]

...

However, I'm confused about the 4 cylinder description. I thought a 4 cylinder loco had 2 pairs of cylinders working exactly opposite each other (so when one was all the way forward, the other was all the way back) so the chuffs would be at the same time, still resulting in 4 chuffs per revolution? I've spent a fair bit of time trying to fathom how LMS and GWR four cylinder locos worked, and looking (and listening) to many youtube, along with many undescriptive explanations on the internet, resulted in my conclusion, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong with a good explanation.

I'd say you were correct, barring the Lord Nelson class(?)

Edited July 23, 2014 by TTAMTWASOOC

[AdamOrmorod]

I'd say you were correct, barring the Lord Nelson class(?)

Yeah I think so, though I'm now trying to get my head around that locomotive's cylinder arrangement.

 

Got my head round it now, thanks TTAMTWASOOC and bigherb.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Ade the Pianist 4468

[bigherb]

Yeah I think so, though I'm now trying to get my head around that locomotive's cylinder arrangement.

The cylinders are the same it was the crank throws that where different.

[Mike70]

Looking at the video, the nameplate does not look like something which has been attached seperatley.  It looks like it has been printed on.

 

Design clever?

[WD0-6-0]

Whether or not they provide etched nameplates a printed one will be there too if only to tell you where to stick the new one, some people may not want they etched ones (if they are etched)

Rhys

[Mike70]

Whether or not they provide etched nameplates a printed one will be there too if only to tell you where to stick the new one, some people may not want they etched ones (if they are etched)

Rhys

Thinking about it, I've got a Bachmann Class 55 with separate etched nameplates.

 

I didn't realise that the ones on the loco are printed. They actually look quite good.

[The Stationmaster]

 

Is it worth the extra? Are you kidding? A mainline sound loco of an undreamed of R-T-R prototype only £25 more than the non-DCC equivalent.

Last time I checked, the Hornby Sapphire non sound decoder was over £30 retail. So it would be cheaper to by theTTS version and run it with the sound off if you don't like what you hear.

 

Get a grip. Bargain of the year. Of course at this price there will be compromises, and it's a shame for DC users that this DCC sound decoder only plays sounds on DCC. But why add to the cost for their target (and growing) audience, DCC users, to cater for a dwindling number of DC users, only a small percentage of whom want sound anyway?

 

Paul

I'm not so sure about that 'only £25 more' bit.  The TTS version is £32 more than the main range engine but appears from the Hornby website to possibly have the finish of the Railroad version although that is far less noticeable in the catalogue illustration - but of course they're all computer generated anyway so not much of a guide.  However it isn't listed on the website as Railroad so on that basis it would seem to be main range, only time and its arrival will tell.

[The Black Hat]

Anyone else think that the exhaust blast and the chime whistle sound like they have used Tornado to record it. I know there could be a link to the P2 project here, but it also means the A1 might be in line for being done TTS soon.

 

Im also unsure whether the exhaust beat matches the wheel revolutions as it was hard to tell on the film. Some engines done with DCC sound before dont have the two matched well and thus have needed their sounds to be improved and reblown.

 

Ether way, the TTS does look impressive and I am after 2. One to stay green and one for the paintshop...

[Hilux5972]

There is an A1 tornado with TTS listed for this year in her Blue livery.

[pauliebanger]

Fair enough, my mistake on the arithmetic.

 

That does not change the general thrust of the point I was making. This is a welcome move by Hornby to bring relatively inexpensive sound to a mass market.

 

For that, I believe they deserve credit and encouragement.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Hroth]

I'm not so sure about that 'only £25 more' bit.  The TTS version is £32 more than the main range engine but appears from the Hornby website to possibly have the finish of the Railroad version although that is far less noticeable in the catalogue illustration - but of course they're all computer generated anyway so not much of a guide.  However it isn't listed on the website as Railroad so on that basis it would seem to be main range, only time and its arrival will tell.

The TTS loco in the Hornby video appears to have most of the livery tweaks that seem to be applicable to the "main range" model; We'll know soon enough where it lies in the range when the Railroad version is released in a couple of weeks time. Where the sound is concerned, all that can be said is that the video gives an impression of what it might sound like, we don't get an appreciation of the "scale" of the sound on a real layout, something we'll only discover that when the TTS loco gets out into the wild. Its also going to be interesting to compare the sounds of the different TTS locos as they appear!

 

Another thought is that the video shows an impressive looking model, let down by being demonstrated on a Hornby layout that was obviously laid out to illustrate the use of as many Hornby scenic components as possible and mainly shows that the P2 WILL go around 2nd Radius curves at speed!  Hornby needs to commission a more realistic layout to demonstrate and sell their main range models more effectively.  If they want us to pay more for good models, then they need to display them in a more appropriate setting, not one that is more suited to glossy 70s Pannier Tanks.

 

I'm looking forward to the end of a long, repeatedly extended wait. I just hope we're not going to be let down...

[mikesndbs]

The TTS loco in the Hornby video appears to have most of the livery tweaks that seem to be applicable to the "main range" model; We'll know soon enough where it lies in the range when the Railroad version is released in a couple of weeks time. Where the sound is concerned, all that can be said is that the video gives an impression of what it might sound like, we don't get an appreciation of the "scale" of the sound on a real layout, something we'll only discover that when the TTS loco gets out into the wild. Its also going to be interesting to compare the sounds of the different TTS locos as they appear!

 

Another thought is that the video shows an impressive looking model, let down by being demonstrated on a Hornby layout that was obviously laid out to illustrate the use of as many Hornby scenic components as possible and mainly shows that the P2 WILL go around 2nd Radius curves at speed!  Hornby needs to commission a more realistic layout to demonstrate and sell their main range models more effectively.  If they want us to pay more for good models, then they need to display them in a more appropriate setting, not one that is more suited to glossy 70s Pannier Tanks.

 

I'm looking forward to the end of a long, repeatedly extended wait. I just hope we're not going to be let down...

 

1

 

Hey, love my 70s Pannier Tank, one of the first locos I got (other was L1) and it still runs nice today! But I know what you mean, I thought the same when I saw the video and the controller they used did nothing for smooth realistic running! Not sure about this loco now, I feel quite annoyed that all the hype about it is still going on yet it seems impossible to buy one as they have all sold out to pre orders! Plus if they were available I can't decide between railroad or normal????

Edited July 24, 2014 by mikesndbs

[melmerby]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that CotN was fitted with Lentz poppet valve gear, which I would have though sounds different to a Gresley 3 Cyl conjugated layout.

 

The nearest we have is Duke of Gloucester with British Caprotti gear (which the new 2007 will have)

Surely a better match for cylinder sounds? - It's even close on general size being just 10% short on T.E.

 

Keith

[Ian Hargrave]

Whether or not they provide etched nameplates a printed one will be there too if only to tell you where to stick the new one, some people may not want they etched ones (if they are etched)

Rhys

It will probably be as the D.o.G.and Great Gathering A 4's....plastic. Go on the Modelmasters website to see what they may be able to provide at this stage.

[pauliebanger]

Mike,

 

Don't be spooked by these reports, remember you are only hearing from people who are on this forum. I know several retailers who have these models on order but have not taken pre-orders from customers.

 

Ask at your local model shop, you might be pleasantly surprised. Granted you might need to pay a bit closer to the suggested retail price but you will be supporting that business and have the model in your hands, saving on postage.

 

Just because some retailers have fulfilled pre-orders for their quotas does not mean that you cannot get one direct from Hornby.com on that website you can register for stock update emails and also purchase via mail order. Free postage on orders over £30 too. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Bon Accord]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that CotN was fitted with Lentz poppet valve gear, which I would have though sounds different to a Gresley 3 Cyl conjugated layout.

 

The nearest we have is Duke of Gloucester with British Caprotti gear (which the new 2007 will have)

Surely a better match for cylinder sounds? - It's even close on general size being just 10% short on T.E.

 

Keith

 

At the P2 roadshow in April they mentioned they were looking seriously at modified Lentz poppet gear instead of British Caprotti and were actively investigating drawings etc in North America. More recent communications have indicated that unless a major obstacle appears they will indeed go for modified Lentz gear.

[melmerby]

At the P2 roadshow in April they mentioned they were looking seriously at modified Lentz poppet gear instead of British Caprotti and were actively investigating drawings etc in North America. More recent communications have indicated that unless a major obstacle appears they will indeed go for modified Lentz gear.

I thought that Lentz had been discounted (in all variations) as British Caprotti is considered superior! How things change.

 

Keith

[The Stationmaster]

Hey, love my 70s Pannier Tank, one of the first locos I got (other was L1) and it still runs nice today! But I know what you mean, I thought the same when I saw the video and the controller they used did nothing for smooth realistic running! Not sure about this loco now, I feel quite annoyed that all the hype about it is still going on yet it seems impossible to buy one as they have all sold out to pre orders! Plus if they were available I can't decide between railroad or normal????

As already mentioned you will almost certainly be able to get one from Hornby.com and if they are sold out Locomotion at Shildon is also likely to have them as they are now a Hornby concession.  With reduced margins in the trade terms everyone will be selling at or very close to Hornby's price so I doubt you'll be paying much, if anything, extra to buy from a concession.

[S.A.C Martin]

So the Railroad edition is - according to Hattons - now due into stock on or after Friday the 5th of September.

 

By the time the actual models hit the shops, it will have been almost a year after the review in BRM by Tony Wright (and a very good review it was too - including the excellent video review which is no longer available, sadly).

 

I know it's only toy trains, yada yada yada, but it is awfully difficult to remain enthused about Hornby in particular when these entirely nonsensical dates are persisted with.

 

It is a pity as I purchased an excellent Hornby product - their Thompson 3rd Brake - from Invicta last week and it reminded of how very good they can be when they get it right.

[AdamOrmorod]

What I'm confused about is the TTS model Hornby's video showcases, how and why would they have made one of these if the rest weren't either being made or finished? They surely must be in production, the TTS model seems far more the final product than the "first one off the production line" we saw all those months ago. So annoying as the P2 was supposed to be the first model I got when I got back into trains, so it's delayed my modelling plans almost completely, especially as I want to see how it handles with a flanged cartazzi wheelset (and the resulting rigid wheelbase) before I lay any track. On that note, does anybody know if the P2 will come with a flanged wheelset?

[S.A.C Martin]

Not that it matters, but even if the Railroad models don't (and it's unlikely they will come with a flanged wheelbase - more likely to be the main range version which will have that) you can get the same type which normally fit A1, A3 and A4 models in Hornby's range.

[AdamOrmorod]

Not that it matters, but even if the Railroad models don't (and it's unlikely they will come with a flanged wheelbase - more likely to be the main range version which will have that) you can get the same type which normally fit A1, A3 and A4 models in Hornby's range.

I'm after the main range one, and that's what I planned to do if it didn't come with some. Have previous models such as the special edition Tornado and Duke of Gloucester come with them? I imagine the P2 will be the same as those.