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Hi folks,

 

Still at planning stage with current 00 project and I have decided to include a rail-servde brewery on it.  What I do not know is what stock would be used to remove the finished product.

 

1.  Would 13t highfits be suitable or would it need to be shock wagons;

2.  traditional wooden casks or aluminium kegs;

3.  how big would the wooden casks be?

 

I plan to use as wide a variety of wagons as possible so in addition to any recommendations I also plan to use a 'Parkside' ale-in-cask wagon.

 

The layout is set ca. 1967.

 

Many thanks in advance for any help or guidance.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

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"Fizzy" keg ales and lagers were already widespread by 1967; most pubs sold keg bitter and lager, either nationally-promoted brands or from regional brewers, depending on the brewery or chain that owned the pub. Many smaller breweries were still only producing real ales in wooden casks but their distribution areas would have been relatively  small, so most wouldn't use rail. The larger breweries with a regional or national distribution would have been using both types of cask and some were using rail. So you'd be more accurate using both.

 

Pete (drinking real ale legally since 1966, although it wasn't called that then).

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The main breweries using rail in the 1960s/70s were Worthington-Bass and Guinness. The former used a mixture of ordinary Tube wagons (with an extra plank all round the top of sides and ends. The latter used a mixture of standard Vanfits, ex-cattle wagons (some with closed-in tops to the side) and ex 10t Meat vans- most were lettered 'Ale-Empty to Park Royal'

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In 1967 I lived opposite a brewery that was still rail served. The rolling stock I observed going in and out was mostly highfits and cattle vans marked 'empty cask'. I did on one occasion see a continental ferry van. However at the time the brewery was phasing out rail transport and most of the transport was by road. One interesting road vehicle often seen in and around breweries were the special lorries used to remove the spent grain. They were usually a SWB four wheel tipper type chassis, mostly Thames Traders with a box like body no wider than the chassis frame and usually towed a small four wheel trailer with a similar body. The bodies were no bigger than about 8' long by about 4' wide and high. I can't remember the name of the company but the livery was mustard yellow with red wheels and signwriting.

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The internal system of Bass-Worthington in Burton on Trent closed in 1968, the last of their steam loco's ceasing to work in 1964.

 

If you can get hold of the book, (buy,borrow from a friend or your local library) "Brewery Railways of Burton on Trent"  by Cliff Shepherd, published by the Industrial Railway Society (ISBN 0 901096 93 8) you wil find all the info you may need on standard gauge brewery railways, Loco's ,wagons and operation. Plus IMHO its a damned good read.

Phil T.

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Hi folks,

 

Thanks for all that information; it's a big help.

 

Meat vans:  found a pic of one where the sides had been rebuilt to look like a std 12t van, but retained the four end vents, so that's a potential conversion.

 

Tube wagons:  as with the meat van, I have found a pic.  Have to admit I hadn't noticed the extra plank! :blush_mini:

 

Cattle:  didn't know these were in use for this kind of traffic that late on.

 

Fizzy beer:  have to agree with the earlier sentiments.  Didn't discover real beer until working in Notts in the late '80s :drink_mini: .  Where I hail from most folk then drank the strong fizzy stuff :bo_mini: .  Found that some brands are good for clearing drains, stripping paint, etc.

 

The good thing about all this (the wagon info, not the fizzy beer) is that I can justify an even wider range of stock including some conversions.

 

Once more, many thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

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In 1967 I lived opposite a brewery that was still rail served. The rolling stock I observed going in and out was mostly highfits and cattle vans marked 'empty cask'. I did on one occasion see a continental ferry van. However at the time the brewery was phasing out rail transport and most of the transport was by road. One interesting road vehicle often seen in and around breweries were the special lorries used to remove the spent grain. They were usually a SWB four wheel tipper type chassis, mostly Thames Traders with a box like body no wider than the chassis frame and usually towed a small four wheel trailer with a similar body. The bodies were no bigger than about 8' long by about 4' wide and high. I can't remember the name of the company but the livery was mustard yellow with red wheels and signwriting.

I do wonder, from the description of the colour scheme, if it was actually yeast residues being removed; these would have gone to make Marmite. The size of the container/lorry body seem a bit small for spent grains, which were very bulky. These were normally used for animal feeds. Breweries used to give away the spent hops to local gardeners as a 'soil improver'- you had to either sheet them over or dig them in quickly, as they'd blow everywhere. At least that's what my grandfather told me, as he passed me a fork..
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I do wonder, from the description of the colour scheme, if it was actually yeast residues being removed; these would have gone to make Marmite. The size of the container/lorry body seem a bit small for spent grains, which were very bulky. These were normally used for animal feeds. Breweries used to give away the spent hops to local gardeners as a 'soil improver'- you had to either sheet them over or dig them in quickly, as they'd blow everywhere. At least that's what my grandfather told me, as he passed me a fork..

It was definitely spent grain, it used to be piled in the brewery yard to the delight of the local pigeons and also to the local cats who found drunken pigeons easy to catch. The grain had been fermented hence the alcohol content also the water content was high. I have found the name of the company, James & Co., Who latterly went over to articulated grain transporters after drying plant was used in the brewery to dry the used grain. It was as you say used to produce Marmite but the greater part of it was turned into animal feed. Originally it was loaded (and unloaded?) by hand shovel which could often be seen 'standing' in the load.

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Sorry to correct people on here.

Its malted barley not grain that was "waste" breweries. But generally everything other than the keystones/ shives was passed on to local farms for feed, or Marmite.

 

I have seen a photo of a ex Meat Van which had plywood sides in bauxite but with the 4 end vents still in maroon.

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Another useful source is

Brewery Railways: An Historical Survey (Hardcover)

by Ian P. Peaty (Author)

 

Unfortunately, now quite expensive for a small book on the Amazon 2nd hand market. (not as expensive as the Cliff Shepherd book!)

 

The photos of Burton area often show shock fitted open wagons and vans.

 

Also, don't overlook the demountable tank wagons http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brdemountable

 

Paul Bartlett

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Sorry to correct people on here.

Its malted barley not grain that was "waste" breweries. But generally everything other than the keystones/ shives was passed on to local farms for feed, or Marmite.

 

I have seen a photo of a ex Meat Van which had plywood sides in bauxite but with the 4 end vents still in maroon.

Barley is grain!

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Hi Alex,

 

This picture was sent to me some time ago but the photographer is unknown at the moment....it is the only example that I've seen of Double Diamond carried in this way (or any rail mode for that matter). Location Lichfield early 70s.

 

post-7795-0-61489100-1357487887.png

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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On the subject of barrels/kegs. When I started using pubs when I was 18 (1966) most of the larger breweries had gone over to aluminium kegs but many of the smaller establishments still retained wooden barrels. One pub not far away from where I lived still drew the beer from wooden barrels on a rack behind the bar and was still doing so until the brewery closed in the mid 70's. So its a case of what type of brewery you want to model.

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In 1967 I lived opposite a brewery that was still rail served. The rolling stock I observed going in and out was mostly highfits and cattle vans marked 'empty cask'. I did on one occasion see a continental ferry van. However at the time the brewery was phasing out rail transport and most of the transport was by road. One interesting road vehicle often seen in and around breweries were the special lorries used to remove the spent grain. They were usually a SWB four wheel tipper type chassis, mostly Thames Traders with a box like body no wider than the chassis frame and usually towed a small four wheel trailer with a similar body. The bodies were no bigger than about 8' long by about 4' wide and high. I can't remember the name of the company but the livery was mustard yellow with red wheels and signwriting.

James & Sons were their name and they came from Northampton, their slogan was James for Grains and the spent grains usually went for cattle feed. Cows got a warm and sugary mass without any alcohol (yeast is added after the extract has been boiled). As for Keg v Cask, Grand Met introduced what I call "brewing by numbers" where the lowest cost ingredients went into stuff like Red Barrel and lager made its significant gains of market share due to the low quality of keg fizz. There was still a role for proper coopers (barrel-makers) in the mid 70's.
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Hi Alex,

 

This picture was sent to me some time ago but the photographer is unknown at the moment....it is the only example that I've seen of Double Diamond carried in this way (or any rail mode for that matter). Location Lichfield early 70s.

 

attachicon.giflichfield beer.PNG

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Guiness was shipped from Ireland in similar containers, there are photos of them loaded onto Freightliner containers - IIRC from Liverpool to London.

 

 

There was still a role for proper coopers (barrel-makers) in the mid 70's.

There still is at Sam Smiths at Tadcaster.

 

 

Paul Bartlett

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've jsut bought a number of 'Transport Age' magazines from ebay, in the October 1960 issue there is an article on the beer trade, and it says

 

' draft beers still make up 60% of the output, stainless steel casks have come into favour but the familiar oak cask is still the most popular container'

 

There is also a really model-able photo of two sidings at Burton, with an LNER steel bodie open nearest, then a couple of wodden opens, and in the background another pair of steel opens and an SR style box van

 

Jon,

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Hi Alex,

 

This picture was sent to me some time ago but the photographer is unknown at the moment....it is the only example that I've seen of Double Diamond carried in this way (or any rail mode for that matter). Location Lichfield early 70s.

 

attachicon.giflichfield beer.PNG

 

Cheers

 

Dave

The Double Diamond Cask was probably on its way to the Dump as I feel it was BAD BEER, not quite as bad as RED BARELL though.

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....it is the only example that I've seen of Double Diamond carried in this way (or any rail mode for that matter)...

 Regrettably it was at one time extensively rail transported - but in buffet cars - where it alternated with the marginally even more awful McKewens fizz. The perfect accompaniment to a pork pie with a crust of cement and a lard and gristle filing.

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The internal system of Bass-Worthington in Burton on Trent closed in 1968, the last of their steam loco's ceasing to work in 1964.

 

If you can get hold of the book, (buy,borrow from a friend or your local library) "Brewery Railways of Burton on Trent"  by Cliff Shepherd, published by the Industrial Railway Society (ISBN 0 901096 93 8) you wil find all the info you may need on standard gauge brewery railways, Loco's ,wagons and operation. Plus IMHO its a damned good read.

Phil T.

 

Seconded !

 

Brian R

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