RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted December 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2013 Hornby have announced BGs for 2014. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hornby have announced BGs for 2014. And TSO/SO's as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hi There are slightly different types dependent on window frame. Some of the earlier type stick out and are almost vertical, later style frames tend to be more in line with the vehicle profile but still stick out at the top. Al Taylor Hello Al, Are you saying that Hornby have incorporated the different types ? Rgds, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted December 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2013 And TSO/SO's as well Forgive my ignorance but are SO and TSO one and the same thing but with a different name at different times or are they quite different? (Afraid I don't have one of those expensive Mk1 books!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Forgive my ignorance but are SO and TSO one and the same thing but with a different name at different times or are they quite different? (Afraid I don't have one of those expensive Mk1 books!) It's down to seating layout as I understand it, the body shells are the same. SO is 2+1 and TSO 2+2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOld Harry 666 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's down to seating layout as I understand it, the body shells are the same. SO is 2+1 and TSO 2+2 2 + 1 seating is 1st. class. TSOs have additional seats to SOs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 2 + 1 seating is 1st. class. TSOs have additional seats to SOs True, but..... 2+1 Seating is correct for first class, but not exclusively. SO and TSO share the same body style (window and door positions etc), but SO have 48 seats (2+1) and TSO have 64 (2+2). Diag.94 SO - numbered in range 3721-35, 4358-4487 & 4779-4829 Diag.93 TSO - numbered in range 3736-4357, 4373-4472, 4488-4636, 4639-4726 & 4739-4778 Diag.90 SO - 3500-3514 (Southern Region Boat train stock - Genuine 2nd class) Diag 89 TSO - 4830- 5069 Usual reference source (for the detail part of this post); British Railways Mark 1 Coaches - Keith Parkin MA - ISBN 1-899816-07-0 Hope that Clarifies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 True, but..... 2+1 Seating is correct for first class, but not exclusively. SO and TSO share the same body style (window and door positions etc), but SO have 48 seats (2+1) and TSO have 64 (2+2). Diag.94 SO - numbered in range 3721-35, 4358-4487 & 4779-4829 Diag.93 TSO - numbered in range 3736-4357, 4373-4472, 4488-4636, 4639-4726 & 4739-4778 Diag.90 SO - 3500-3514 (Southern Region Boat train stock - Genuine 2nd class) Diag 89 TSO - 4830- 5069 Usual reference source (for the detail part of this post); British Railways Mark 1 Coaches - Keith Parkin MA - ISBN 1-899816-07-0 Hope that Clarifies? Just Noticed the conflict in the number ranges - but that's what the book says....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted December 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2013 It will be scale length, as with the new range of mk1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 2 + 1 seating is 1st. class. TSOs have additional seats to SOs2 + 1 seating was also used for the SOs that were genuine second class vehicles used on boat trains prior to May 1956 (diagram 90, coach numbers 3500-14). Parkin (1991 ed.), page 209, clears up the numbering conflict. 4373-4472 were diagram 93 (lots 219 and 226). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 2 + 1 seating was also used for the SOs that were genuine second class vehicles used on boat trains prior to May 1956 (diagram 90, coach numbers 3500-14). Parkin (1991 ed.), page 209, clears up the numbering conflict. 4373-4472 were diagram 93 (lots 219 and 226). Sorry but I don't understand what you mean. The salient points of these data I quoted (post # 383 above) agrees with your post and comes from the 1999 print of said volume; the conflict remains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgj Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I saw some of the new Hornby Mk1s that come as part of the Duke of Gloucester set and they are maroon again but with the eastern region prefix. They have extra printed detail like no smoking and first class signs plus the roundels, etc. They also have metal wheels. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2014 Will the BG be scale length? Or like the old one. It will be scale length, as with the new range of mk1 According to the 2014 catalogue it is the same length as the coaches Things could of course change between now and its appearance in the shops but on the other hand it could be another Hornby blooper. Only time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2014 Looking at the 2014 catalogue - page 72 - it looks to me that the length quoted of 265mm is a typo. Comparing the visuals of the Mk 1 'Camping Coach' above it is clearly shorter and the under frame is shorter and different to that placed under the other Mk 1s. As Mike says only time will tell, but for the moment I am feeling optimistic! Godfrey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2014 Looking at the 2014 catalogue - page 72 - it looks to me that the length quoted of 265mm is a typo. Comparing the visuals of the Mk 1 'Camping Coach' above it is clearly shorter and the under frame is shorter and different to that placed under the other Mk 1s. As Mike says only time will tell, but for the moment I am feeling optimistic! Godfrey You took the simple course Godfrey - although I agree regarding it looking shorter in the pic below that of the camping coach. Now if you turn to the Railroad section on page 96 you find exactly the same vehicle described (like all the other new Mk 1s) as 270mm long (although it still looks shorter than the others in the illustration) 24 pages and the coaches grow by 5mm, maybe they're part of a new Hogwarts range? I think in reality it all comes back to the same old story regarding the Hornby catalogue - wait until you see it 'in the flesh' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2014 Mike Far more likely to be the new Pinocchio Range! Godfrey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 BR Mk green BSK brake second corridor coach S35464 at Swanage station. According to Brushman in the 2014 Hornby Announcements topic the number of the Hornby R4609 will be 34239. The Hornby model will have a British Railways coach crest which was carried by the Royal Wessex Mk1s which ran from Waterloo to Bournemouth West with portions going on to Weymouth and Swanage. After 1962 when the Mk1s were replaced by Bulleid coaches with a larger seating capacity the Mk1s with crests became loose coaches. Now some of the Swanage Railway coaches have carriage crests. Despite costing over £30 each and only being available with lighting they should sell well as Hornby have got the BR green colour right whereas the Bachmann coaches look too dark and don't match either the Hornby coaches or Bachmann's earlier coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 The Hornby model will have a British Railways coach crest . Will you please stop saying this as if it's gospel - this is precisely why some people have been antagonistic about some of your postings in the past. Hornby is well known for catalogue images not matching the final model. BSK 34239, the coach number shown on the Hornby website, was in standard 4-car set number 869, later (from 1963) becoming a 3-car set with the same set number. To the best of my knowledge these coach sets never carried coach roundels. So if the coach roundel is present and the coach number remains the same, the coach is wrong. I emailed Simon Kohler and in his reply he said that he was still undecided about including the coach set number on the BSKs based on the coach numbers being used, but that if the coaches shouldn't have the roundel, they wouldn't. That suggests to me that Hornby has not yet finalised the details and that something on the coach as shown in the catalogue will change when released for it to be correct in all respects. And at the price Hornby is asking, it should be. I don't want the roundels but I accept others, including you, may do. But that doesn't, yet, mean they will be there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Will you please stop saying this as if it's gospel - this is precisely why some people have been antagonistic about some of your postings in the past. Hornby is well known for catalogue images not matching the final model. BSK 34239, the coach number shown on the Hornby website, was in standard 4-car set number 869, later (from 1963) becoming a 3-car set with the same set number. To the best of my knowledge these coach sets never carried coach roundels. So if the coach roundel is present and the coach number remains the same, the coach is wrong. I emailed Simon Kohler and in his reply he said that he was still undecided about including the coach set number on the BSKs based on the coach numbers being used, but that if the coaches shouldn't have the roundel, they wouldn't. That suggests to me that Hornby has not yet finalised the details and that something on the coach as shown in the catalogue will change when released for it to be correct in all respects. And at the price Hornby is asking, it should be. I don't want the roundels but I accept others, including you, may do. But that doesn't, yet, mean they will be there. I emailed Simon Kohler and he said that he can assure me that the BR SR Mk1 coaches will appear with the crest which is why I said that so in my post. He went on to say that he would produce BR Mk1 coaches without a crest as well if there was a demand. I have already got several rakes of Lima, Hornby and Bachmann coaches. I have renumbered and put coach crests on some of the Bachmann coaches so I will only need to buy the new Hornby coaches if they are better than my existing coaches. If I had not got any green Mk1 coaches I would need some with crests and some without. I have not got the coach numbers for the Royal Wessex sets but I have got a photograph of a BSK at Swanage in crimson and cream livery numbered S34158 so this may enable Hornby to put the correct coach numbers on their Mk1 coaches with coach crests. If all else fails Hornby can number a green BSK S35464 as this has got a crest now. I expect people who have pre-ordered coaches on the basis of an illustration with coach crests will be disappointed if they receive them without crests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 At a recommended retail price of £36,50 the consumer would expect the running numbers, coach crests and set numbers to tally. This is about twice the price that Hattons are selling Bachmann Mk1 coaches for. To satisfy its customers buying BR Mk1 green the choice facing Hornby seems to be: to produce a Royal Wessex set with the coach crests, the correct running numbers and no set number, to produce Set 869 with the correct running numbers and no coach crests or to produce both. Perhaps Hornby could also give customers the option of purchasing coaches without lights to be competitive with Bachmann. Most retailers seem to be offering the coaches at less than the recommended retail price and Hornby are not charging postage on items over £30. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 At a recommended retail price of £36,50 the consumer would expect the running numbers, coach crests and set numbers to tally. This is about twice the price that Hattons are selling Bachmann Mk1 coaches for. To satisfy its customers buying BR Mk1 green the choice facing Hornby seems to be: to produce a Royal Wessex set with the coach crests, the correct running numbers and no set number, to produce Set 869 with the correct running numbers and no coach crests or to produce both. Perhaps Hornby could also give customers the option of purchasing coaches without lights to be competitive with Bachmann. Most retailers seem to be offering the coaches at less than the recommended retail price and Hornby are not charging postage on items over £30. That would be nice. I need Eastern MK3s and as I have no intention of sitting the dark I don't need them to be lit !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 At a recommended retail price of £36,50 the consumer would expect the running numbers, coach crests and set numbers to tally. This is about twice the price that Hattons are selling Bachmann Mk1 coaches for. I'm not sure if I agree with this, in the past they've made Pullmans with incorrect names or named incorrectly for the type of coach, and pullman's are a minefield . I'm sure they - Hornby - will try but there are limits. TBH I'd expect the running numbers to match the coach type ie SK CK BSK but beyond that matching to a particular train.... Why should they, as consists were very mixed and even inconsistent with the published Carriage Working books. If there's a number crest you really want then get in touch with Fox or Model Master and renumber it won't take 5min. Again to TBH my preference would be to pay for a coach without lighting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 It looks like most people would like to pay less for BR SR Mk1 coaches without lighting. I wonder if Hornby will produce them if enough people contact the firm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 Why should they, as consists were very mixed and even inconsistent with the published Carriage Working books. Sorry David but that's not really the case. The Southern Region had fixed formation, numbered coach sets for much of its loco hauled rolling stock and they were pretty good at allocating the right coach sets to trains. Hornby has clearly thought about matching coach numbers with a specific coach set because the numbers shown are for coach set 869. The debate on here is because Hornby has also added coach roundels and this particular set didn't have them. Hornby's excellent Maunsells also in most cases were numbered to match actual coach sets and some even had the set numbers on the BSKs. Having done so well with Maunsells, why spoil it by making a hash of these Mk1s? It's not as if the correct data is hard to come by. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Sorry David but that's not really the case. The Southern Region had fixed formation, numbered coach sets for much of its loco hauled rolling stock and they were pretty good at allocating the right coach sets to trains. Hornby has clearly thought about matching coach numbers with a specific coach set because the numbers shown are for coach set 869. The debate on here is because Hornby has also added coach roundels and this particular set didn't have them. Hornby's excellent Maunsells also in most cases were numbered to match actual coach sets and some even had the set numbers on the BSKs. Having done so well with Maunsells, why spoil it by making a hash of these Mk1s? It's not as if the correct data is hard to come by. Thanks I'd not know that.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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