Class 04 shunters in action - BR Blue?

[br2975]

The listed different wheel dia's, from my varoius BR driver books.

 

D2200-D2214, had 3'3" wheels.

D2215-D2273,  3'6" wheels.

D2274-D2340,  3'7" wheels. 

D2341 isn't listed, but i believe they were 3'6'', but this needs confirming.

 

Paul J.

 

The extract from the BR drawings I included above, with the paired shunter numbers shown, includes;

.

D2265 + D2340

.

The former having 3'6" dia drivers and the latter 3'7" dia, another 'odd couple. ?

.

Brian R

[Swindon 123]

Another odd pairing, although not as a loco pairing, was D2328 which had a wheel swap with D2209 in NCB days, when the latter was withdrawn for spares, so ran on 3'3" wheels at the end of its life, instead of 3'7" ones. 

D2328. [JC6-190] by Paul James, on Flickr

 

 

Paul J.

[Broadoak]

I have a copy of  “The changing railway scene, Western Region” by Laurence Waters and there is page featuring 03’s.

One photo shows an OG in green livery with a maroon ex Great Western B set.

The Caption is as follows:  The 03’s were generally used on short freight and shunting turns, but this picture shows D2195 together with ex GW B set coaches Nos  W6831 and W1238 at Highworth on June 18 1962, with an unadvertised workmen’s train from Swindon. The branch was actually closed to passenger traffic 1953, but remained open for freight traffic, and apart from a short section at the Swindon end, was closed completely on 6 August 1962.

 

 Although the wrong colour I hope this is of some interest.

 

Regards Peter M

[Peter A Hall]

The June 2018 Railway Magazine (p.82) contains a report on the repatriation of D2289. Unfortunately it perpetuates the myth of "brassplater" Peter Wood of Eckington, near Chesterfield having an involvement with its export, quoted in the report as P Wood (Shipbreakers) Queenborough. The company it passed through at Queenborough was actually Shipbreaking (Queenborough) Ltd although it is possible that they did not acquire it direct from BR but through RE Trem of Finningley nr Doncaster. Further details can be found towards the end of http://www.whatreallyhappenedtosteam.co ... ations.pdf

Between withdrawal and export (September 1971 and cApril 1972) D2289 was moved from Eastleigh to Queenborough, the date of this movement has though never been established and any observations of it during the period would be extremely useful.

As mentioned in Railway Magazine evidence to hand does suggest that D2289 was first located at Feralpi before moving to Acciaierie di Lonato. It is worth mentioning that the earliest traced reference to Ex BR locomotives at this locations appeared in IRS Bulletin 206 (OCtober 1976) and says

Feralpi at Lonato has ex BR D2294 and another Drewry 0-6-0D 3 PHOENIX, also a Badoni diesel.

Acciaierie di Lonato, Lonato (Brescia) has FH 3944 (ex Settle Speakman, Queenborough) and 0-6-0D ex BR D2295.

 

It should be noted that D2294 is not thought to have ever left Queenborough and D2295 was photographed in 1974 https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesel ... sels/D2295carrying branding for a company in Southern Italy. Thus, much to be unravelled regarding the Italian history of D2289.

Further pictures and information regarding the arrival of D2289 at Rowsley can be found at http://heritageshuntertrust.wixsite.com/hst1/news

Edited July 3, 2018 by Peter A Hall

[Peter A Hall]

From my photo collection I've got the following in Blue. (From colour photos).

 

D2200.

D2209.

D2211.

D2239. Not a brilliant photo but the cab front is in sunlight and definately blue.

D2258. As early as Aug 1967.

D2289.

D2293.

D2295.

 

Paul J. 

Does anyone know of any others or is it that Paul has been able to obtain a picture of everyone that was blue?

[Swindon 123]

Does anyone know of any others or is it that Paul has been able to obtain a picture of everyone that was blue?

I will have to update the list, as I forgot to include D2294, for I have now come across photos of it in blue.

 

Paul J.

[Peter A Hall]

I will have to update the list, as I forgot to include D2294, for I have now come across photos of it in blue.

 

Paul J.

It would appear D2294 was painted in non BR  blue at Queenborough after it arrived their.  Had presumed that it was previously green but perhaps not. 

[Swindon 123]

It would appear D2294 was painted in non BR  blue at Queenborough after it arrived their.  Had presumed that it was previously green but perhaps not. 

D2294 may well have had a repaint at Queenborough, as it had red buffer beams there, but yellow buffer beams in blue with BR.

D2294 in Blue with serif numbers, here.   https://flic.kr/p/rs1CS4

Also see this link, (if it works properly?) which is a photo of D2289, D2294 & D2293 all in blue.

https://picclick.co.uk/British-Rail-1960s-1970s-35mm-Colour-Slide-D2294-132702102402.html

There was also a good colour photo of D2294 in the August 2004 edition of Model Rail.

 

Paul J.

[Peter A Hall]

Thanks Paul for the references  to D2294 confirming it served in BR Blue.  The blue applied at Queenborough looks to be of a different shade. 

 

Quick update regarding D2289 which it is eventually intended to restore in its final BR guise carrying BR Blue. 

 

Around 70 people visited Rowsley for D2289's debut appearance after returning from Italy.  No one visiting mentioned that it wasn't a cop!   Its next public appearance is planned for the Heritage Shunters Trust 'Shunter Bashers Bal' to be held next weekend (1/2 September) at Rowsley https://heritageshuntertrust.wixsite.com/hst1/news

 

Analysis and translation of documents acquired with D2289 now suggest it spent its entire career at Acciaierie di Lonato, Lonato (Brescia) and was never at Feralpi.  Which Class 04 was at Feralpi thus remains a mystery..

 

What is known about D2289 along with Italian observations can be found at https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/loco.htm?id=diesels/D2289 in order to assist those involved with its repatriation compile as fuller history of the locomotive as possible we are now appealing for any one who saw it during its BR career to add those sightings as well,  Also if any one can supply pictures of D2289 in BR days those would be welcomed.

[south_tyne]

I am sure I have seen photos of Drewry-type shunters on pick up freight services in the Northallerton/Ripon/Harrogate kind of area in the mid/late '60s. Possible the last throws of the Masham branch?

 

I suspect they may have been what became the 03 class rather than 04 mind? I am sure far more knowledgeable folk can confirm though. Presumably a York or Darlington based loco that was allowed to stretch it's legs out on the mainline!

 

I had a quick look and couldn't immediately find the images I was thinking of but I am sure I am not making it up... for my own sanitt, perhaps someone can confirm that I haven't completely dreamt this up!!

[Ray M]

I am sure I have seen photos of Drewry-type shunters on pick up freight services in the Northallerton/Ripon/Harrogate kind of area in the mid/late '60s. Possible the last throws of the Masham branch?

 

I suspect they may have been what became the 03 class rather than 04 mind? I am sure far more knowledgeable folk can confirm though. Presumably a York or Darlington based loco that was allowed to stretch it's legs out on the mainline!

 

I had a quick look and couldn't immediately find the images I was thinking of but I am sure I am not making it up... for my own sanitt, perhaps someone can confirm that I haven't completely dreamt this up!!

Wake up, Wake up

your dreaming about 04`s again 

[figworthy]

I am sure I have seen photos of Drewry-type shunters on pick up freight services in the Northallerton/Ripon/Harrogate kind of area in the mid/late '60s. Possible the last throws of the Masham branch?

 

I suspect they may have been what became the 03 class rather than 04 mind? I am sure far more knowledgeable folk can confirm though. Presumably a York or Darlington based loco that was allowed to stretch it's legs out on the mainline!

 

I had a quick look and couldn't immediately find the images I was thinking of but I am sure I am not making it up... for my own sanitt, perhaps someone can confirm that I haven't completely dreamt this up!!

 

Railway Memories No23 Northallerton, Ripon & Wensleydale (Bellcode Books) has a picture of D2077 at Thirsk Town, but the only shunters shown on the Masham Branch are class 08.

 

Adrian

[south_tyne]

Railway Memories No23 Northallerton, Ripon & Wensleydale (Bellcode Books) has a picture of D2077 at Thirsk Town, but the only shunters shown on the Masham Branch are class 08.

 

Adrian

That's the one - cheers Adrian! I'll dig it out for a look tomorrow. I knew I had seen something somewhere. If I remember rightly they were lovely atmospheric shots of diesels locos but operating in 'steam-age' infrastructure and setting.

[Gibbo675]

The listed different wheel dia's, from my varoius BR driver books.

 

D2200-D2214, had 3'3" wheels.

D2215-D2273,  3'6" wheels.

D2274-D2340,  3'7" wheels. 

D2341 isn't listed, but i believe they were 3'6'', but this needs confirming.

 

Paul J.

Hi Paul,

 

As a matter of interest and with regard wheel diameters, a new tyre's thickness is three inches and when it has been re-profiled due to wear its last turning will leave it at a minimum thickness of one and a half inches. This means that the 3' 7" locos on scrap tyres would be 3' 4" and so on.

 

Some locos have what is known as a scrapping grove machined into the face of the tyre to assist in gauging how much wear life is left.

 

There is a chance that if your 04's are in blue and at the end of their careers they might well be on scrap tyres and so the wheels could be smaller.

 

I do hope this doesn't add to any confusion over wheel diameters !

 

Gibbo.

[Swindon 123]

Hi Paul,

 

As a matter of interest and with regard wheel diameters, a new tyre's thickness is three inches and when it has been re-profiled due to wear its last turning will leave it at a minimum thickness of one and a half inches. This means that the 3' 7" locos on scrap tyres would be 3' 4" and so on.

 

Some locos have what is known as a scrapping grove machined into the face of the tyre to assist in gauging how much wear life is left.

 

There is a chance that if your 04's are in blue and at the end of their careers they might well be on scrap tyres and so the wheels could be smaller.

 

I do hope this doesn't add to any confusion over wheel diameters !

 

Gibbo.

The wheel diameters quoted in my original post are the new as built size. As with all rail vehicles, tyre wear will play a big part in the actual size of the wheel at any one time, dependent on the amount of running done, and the number of tight curves the vehicle has to run through during its career. It quite often shows up in photos of trains in the differing ride heights, and therefore positions of a vehicles buffers relative to its neighbour. Whether a loco or vehicle is running on scrap size wheels later on in its career is dependent on a number of things, and although in later years locos would be withdrawn with scrap size tyres, this was not always the case, and some locos where withdrawn just because they were non standard, or had an engine defect, when the wheelsets were still good.

 

Paul J.

[jessy1692]

I am sure I have seen photos of Drewry-type shunters on pick up freight services in the Northallerton/Ripon/Harrogate kind of area in the mid/late '60s. Possible the last throws of the Masham branch?

 

I suspect they may have been what became the 03 class rather than 04 mind? I am sure far more knowledgeable folk can confirm though. Presumably a York or Darlington based loco that was allowed to stretch it's legs out on the mainline!

 

I had a quick look and couldn't immediately find the images I was thinking of but I am sure I am not making it up... for my own sanitt, perhaps someone can confirm that I haven't completely dreamt this up!!

I have a pic of 2 04s in Harrogate goods yard fron the 60s, cab to cab so assuming multiple piped up, allocation of york or hammerton street if i recall. Model pics on my work bench both pending new chassis as they run like pigs being ex mainline!

Model pic attached, happy to pm the original pic i bought bt not sure about copyright etc to share here

Cheers

James

Edited August 30, 2018 by jessy1692

[south_tyne]

I have a pic of 2 04s in Harrogate goods yard fron the 60s, cab to cab so assuming multiple piped up, allocation of york or hammerton street if i recall. Model pics on my work bench both pending new chassis as they run like pigs being ex mainline!

post-5804-0-25353800-1477260044.jpg

Model pic attached, happy to pm the original pic i bought bt not sure about copyright etc to share here

Cheers

James

Cheers James!

 

Just dug out the above book and they are wonderful images of both 03s and 08s on local/pick up goods.

 

If such services had survived longer in general nationwide, and the rural branchline had not been obliterated, you wonder whether diesel shunters would have been more widely used in such a manner into the '70s? Particularly when the non-standard plethora of type 1 diesel locos had been phased out and scrapped.

 

Very much alternative history but an 03 trundling along with a few wagons on a rural branch is very appealing to me!

[Peter A Hall]

The January 2019 edition of 'Today's Railways UK', published tomorrow,  has a four page feature about the repatriation of D2289 earlier this year.

[Fat Controller]

Cheers James!

 

Just dug out the above book and they are wonderful images of both 03s and 08s on local/pick up goods.

 

If such services had survived longer in general nationwide, and the rural branchline had not been obliterated, you wonder whether diesel shunters would have been more widely used in such a manner into the '70s? Particularly when the non-standard plethora of type 1 diesel locos had been phased out and scrapped.

 

Very much alternative history but an 03 trundling along with a few wagons on a rural branch is very appealing to me!

Gateshead's allocation of 03s were working pick-up freights from Tyne Yard to Blaydon into the 1980s. Sometimes, these might just convey a handful of coal wagons as far as the coal-yard at Blaydon; however, there were sometimes Transfesa vans to and from the 'Greenmarket' at Team Valley, and empty scrap wagons to Dunston. If the latter was being served, then the layout at Dunston meant that the loco would leave with scrap wagons in front of it, and the rest of the train behind.

The 03s were quite nippy, and so using them for short-distance trip workings was fairly straightforward. The 08s were plodders, so much less use on anything that involved main-line working.

[Mark1909]

D2289 has a rubber seal around the cab side and cab front windows as opposed to aluminium.  can anybody confirm that this is authentic to BR ? Was it a later modification to existing survivors  when the locos were repainted blue or was this just for Southern Region locos ?  Many thanks, Mark