Camel Quay - A North Cornwall inspired layout in 4mm

[southern42]

.....................

Not sure where the lobster pots etc came from, every time I turn my head something new seems to appear.

Ray.

 

     

Should I own up.....?      

[emt_911]

No. Not yet

[N15class]

The good thing about harbour walls in that part of the country the granite stones are pretty big, less scribing to do.

[Neal Ball]

Great thread Ray, I will follow with interest..... as long as it does not delay a certain GWR project!!

 

Have fun!

[tender]

The good thing about harbour walls in that part of the country the granite stones are pretty big, less scribing to do.

Yes and not very regular from what I remember when I was there a few years ago. That was before I got into model railways so I think I need to go back and get some some more detail photos, particularly of the station building before they knock it down. D O N ' T. NOOOO.........

[Coombe Barton]

 

Das clay was rolled out pastry style to approx 1mm thickness before being applied to the PVA coated wall side between the plies, the excess trimmed off and smoothed into the quay surface. When dry 'stone' blocks will be scribed into the surface with capping stones on top. Still undecided about the finish of the quay surface, cobbles have been suggested but ive not seen any photos of the area supporting this, suggestions welcome.

 

 

This is part of a Google Earth of Padstow quay.

 

 

Some points:

• Quaysides in North Cornwall were made of the local stone, not granite. Granite would have been too expensive to transport there for the whole quay wall. Think packhorses.
• The rock uses was killas – the sedimentary rock that the granite further south was intruded into.
• It’s friable and doesn’t cut well into rectangular blocks.
• It was used because it was there.
• They used plenty of mortar
• That was relatively cheap because the coal and limestone came across from South Wales by ship and sand and gravel was available
• Harbour and quay walls were relatively smooth - they had to be.
• If you have an uneven quay wall where air can get in that’s potential for disaster.
• Wave action traps air in the hole and it compresses
• When it decompresses – explosively – it takes out any loose material
• Little holes get big pretty quick
• People who don’t maintain harbours lose them
• Inspections were often carried out between each tide.
• The harbour at Hartland Quay was completely destroyed in a matter of months because they let it go. Trevaunance Quay went the same way.
• Granite blocks would probably have been present for the top edging of the walls [EDIT] if the original builders of the structure could have afforded the transport costs.
• The road surface would have been cemented killas, not granite setts
• Cobbles are a term for a size of rock, not necessarily a descriptions of the shape or rock type
• It’s different in places like Penzance and Newlyn where the granite quarry was virtually behind the harbour.
• Wood pilings were a rarity. Blame that on the lack of suitable trees. [EDIT] Long straight timber was available in the mining areas of Cornwall - Norwegian** pine - but it was ****** all good for immersion in Water - river piles would have been something like oak. ** The Norway Inn at Peranaworthal was named because of the imports taking place there. There's photos (or there were) in the bar.

 

Lime kiln from Bucks Mills – north coast

 

 

So from a modelling point of view for North Cornwall:

• Scribing in the clay should be minimal, if at all.
• And not regular – get prototype pix
• The colours are greys and blacks and whites.
• There’s often more mortar visible than rock
• And the surface is largely smooth.

 

From your point of view I think you’re going to have a devil of a job colouring that DAS. I’d have used white.

 

[EDIT] And just had a look at Wadebridge - all river wall pilings have been covered/replaced by concrete and steel to protect new developments

 

[EDIT] Here's what I mean by plenty of mortar - Port Isaac

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=MYGMPueTjj_VEM&tbnid=TFKkOedRA-sN0M:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcornwall.greatbritishlife.co.uk%2Fcommunity%2Fgallery%2Fimage%2F55172%2F%3Fphotograph_type_id%3D9%26page%3D2&ei=KbYgUdLkA4fV4QTWzIH4CQ&bvm=bv.42553238,d.bGE&psig=AFQjCNGo1oNwB5JtEgiSm-_TWr6YleHiDw&ust=1361184681616072

Edited February 17, 2013 by Coombe Barton

[N15class]

Very informative Coombe Barton.

 

I should of thought first, as I know the north Cornwall coast quite well. When I think of harbours etc the brain goes straight to the likes of Mousehole and Penzance etc.

[DLT]

And to show the difference, here IS Mousehole, in all its massive granite glory.

 

The differing size of the blocks and style of construction show the different periods in the harbour development

The first pic shows the oldest part of the quay wall, with massive irregular boulders.

 

 

In contrast, the area around the steps has some of the smallest blocks in the entire construction!

 

 

Not sure if this helps, but its nice to see pics of Cornish harbours!

Cheers,

Dave.

[emt_911]

You are NOT going toconvince ME to have a quay side layout. Absolutely perfect photos for those who are though.

 

Duncan

[Coombe Barton]

The pix of Mousehole are of the INSIDE of the harbour where wave action is not important. The OUTSIDE of the harbour is like the left hand end of the second pic - mortared and smooth.

 

[EDIT] and the outside of harbours are what most people don't see.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Coombe Barton

[DLT]

 

The pix of Mousehole are of the INSIDE of the harbour where wave action is not important. The OUTSIDE of the harbour is like the left hand end of the second pic - mortared and smooth.

 

[EDIT] and the outside of harbours are what most people don't see.

Quite so, sorry if I didnt make that clear.

The outside of Moushole harbour walls are well mortared but not as smooth as you might expect.  In theory, they are not designed to have boats rubbing against them!

Here is the outside of Mousehole Harbour walls.

 

[Coombe Barton]

I would expect the south and east faces where they face on to the sea should be smoother. That's up the north side of the harbour and the bay continues round protecting that side. There isn't a lot of fetch for waves to gain strength in the mile from Penzance sea front.

 

This is Sennen harbour wall - much smoother - much more exposed

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8158/7526449566_417a65c503_z.jpg

Edited February 17, 2013 by Coombe Barton

[7APT7]

Hi Ray

 

Great bit of walls to go off with the Photos other have uploaded... any that tickle your fancy... Great bit of modelling with your harbour wall face...

Look forward to seeing the outcome, and was great to see the layout at Llanberis this weekend just gone...

 

Jamie

[tender]

So from a modelling point of view for North Cornwall:

 

• Scribing in the clay should be minimal, if at all.

• And not regular – get prototype pix

• The colours are greys and blacks and whites.

• There’s often more mortar visible than rock

• And the surface is largely smooth.

 

From your point of view I think you’re going to have a devil of a job colouring that DAS. I’d have used white.

 

Hi Coombe Barton.

Lots of useful stuff in your (and others) post and many thanks for taking the time for putting it all together.

 

I've just been reading Irwell Press (An Illustrated History.........) and think there might be some confusion between the harbour and the Fish quay (and outer quay). The harbour predates the quay considerably and from the photos in your post and others look very much as you describe. However Irwell Press suggests that the quay walls (funded by the NCR) were built from "3/4 ton concrete blocks" and "the top was coped with granite blocks and wall protected by horizontal and vertical timbers".

 

Pictures in the book of the quay are quite early and not very clear but www.photofilecornwall.co.uk/cornwall_north/padstow/ (The Matthew at Padstow) show these blocks quite clearly.

 

So with reference to your modelling point of view

Scribing minimal - yes

Not regular - looks pretty regular.

Colours - with some green weed/algae.

More mortar than rock - unlikely.

Surface smooth - ish

 

I'd have used white (Das) - so would I but the shop didn't have any. However if it gets damaged it won't show as much.

 

But like I said in my early post it deserves a visit with camera (and tape measure).

 

Ray.

[N15class]

This is what I like about model railways. A good cover of knowledge, on many subjects. When you think of something simple like a wall, then discover a wall is never simply a wall whether it is on a house or a harbour. The parts are done in a way for a reason.

[DLT]

But like I said in my early post it deserves a visit with camera (and tape measure).

Ray.

Theres nothing to beat that!

[southern42]

The first(?) video of Camel Quay to appear on Youtube - not one of ours and no trains running. 

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APuhlOMJOck

 

Lovely to see it, Mrdigitalben.   

Edited February 18, 2013 by southern42

[southern42]

The pix of Mousehole are of the INSIDE of the harbour where wave action is not important. The OUTSIDE of the harbour is like the left hand end of the second pic - mortared and smooth.

 

[EDIT] and the outside of harbours are what most people don't see.

And when you come in by sea, you are so busy watching where you're supposed to be going you don't notice either. 

[Stubby47]

This is a picture of the inside of Mevagissy Harbour.

 

Note the sections of vertical stone work, which can be seen on other harbours around Cornwall.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/15664-dockside-layout/?p=147172

 

Stu

[Andrew P]

Helo, sut wyt ti Ray,

 

I was glad to here avago went well, I always let kids have a go with the buttons for the horns on my DCC controllers, that why I operate from the front at shows. I am just going to have a bit of a catch up everywhere and he go and do some more planning on Glenfinick and my Steam Depot.

 

Reguards to Polly

 

Hwyl fawr. Old Lune

[southern42]

 

... video of Camel Quay ...not one of ours and no trains running. 

.....

 

...so here's one of a diesel interloper brought by some visitors from the Wirral on Saturday.

 

 

Sounds good - for a diesel     

 

Polly

[7APT7]

Hi Polly

 

Great to see a YouTube Clip and the layout progress...

Great to see a DCC Sound Loco running... the way forward for the most...

 

Jamie

[tender]

This is a picture of the inside of Mevagissy Harbour.

 

Note the sections of vertical stone work, which can be seen on other harbours around Cornwall.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/15664-dockside-layout/?p=147172

 

Stu

Thanks for the link Stu.

 

I found these photos of Padstow Quay (not harbour) on flicker.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurassic_john/1464287047/lightbox/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplou78/5442550659/lightbox/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/strana666/4749512496/lightbox/

 

All of which show the regular block like (probably concrete as Irwell suggests) nature of the walls. So I think I'm going to go with something along these lines. Also note the amount of greenery, particularly at low water. Should have fun modelling that seaweed.

 

Ray

Edited February 19, 2013 by tender

[tender]

Over the weekend i've been thinking about a building to put on the quayside. There's not a lot of room between the tracks and the stone retaining wall (covering the fiddle yard) so is was wondering what might be suitable.

I then remembered a picture in 'Branch line to Padstow' of the two storey fish merchants offices/stores, plate 108 which shows the back view and 

 

http://www.padstow-harbour.co.uk/gallery_nov_14_11_files/fishermens_stores_1950.jpg

 

 padstow-harbour.co.uk

showing the front view with balcony.

 

This IMO is a very unusual and distinctive timber clad building being quite long, very narrow with a first floor balcony  (walkway) running the full length of the first floor with steps at each end. A model representing this would place the scene very much on the quayside at Padstow.

 

 

Here's a very rough sketch of what is proposed from measurements 'guessed' by looking at the proportions of the two gentlemen in the picture under the balcony. I've also shortened the building slightly (8 bays instead of 9) basically to get it fit on an A4 sheet of paper. I'll make a card mock up first and see how it look in place on the Quay.

 

Ray

Edited February 25, 2013 by tender

[tender]

Had a bit of spare time at lunch at work today so knocked up the mock-up for the quay building as described in my previous post. 

 

 

You'll have to use your imagination for the doors, steps and balustrades on the balcony. I'll plonk it on the layout when I get home tonight and see how it looks.

 

Ray