Wills new point rodding....

[Oldddudders]

Both Wills and Ratio are parts of the Peco "empire" and all plastic production and packing is carried out at Buckfastleigh by the Ratio element

 

If anyone knows the up to date state if play it will be them.

 

Wally

Thanks Wally. As you obviously know, the factory area literally opens off the retail shop, and it was from that area that the lady came to serve me. She was so sure of her facts I'm confident the product is weeks rather than days away.

[Gwiwer]

Kernow MRC advise that they anticipate delivery in the week ahead.

[steveb860]

Whenever it arrives, it's a welcome addition to the range, and I am sure I will be buying some for the future layout.

[Oldddudders]

The images in RM show square section rodding, so I guess that for some of us this is a bit modern. Round rodding was still very evident in the '60s.

[coachmann]

The images in RM show square section rodding, so I guess that for some of us this is a bit modern. Round rodding was still very evident in the '60s.

Short lengths of round section rodding to the actual points, but I'm sure the main rodding was inverted  I_I section that kept the rodding from flexing and allowed it to run on rollers wheels and definitely in use in pre-grouping days.

[The Stationmaster]

Short lengths of round section rodding to the actual points, but I'm sure the main rodding was inverted  I_I section that kept the rodding from flexing and allowed it to run on rollers wheels and definitely in use in pre-grouping days.

It all depends where & when.  Generally Pre-Group (and in some cases pre 1948/50) rodding was round section and some companies used pipe although some used sold bar.  In later years square, inverted 'U' section rodding as described by Coach has become the norm but some Regions had plenty of round rodding around until quite late on.

 

The other thing that's worth noting (maybe?) is that there are at least two types of channel rodding rollers in use - the Reading pattern and 'the others' plus the way connections off the main run to points etc were done differently by different Regions/Companies.  If you are really into the detail get correct pics for the area/Region you are modelling in order to avoid moans from pedantic rodding run nerds like me who will immediately tell you you are doing an LMR run to WR method (and will produce the pics to show you why I said that)    .

[Oldddudders]

It all depends where & when.  Generally Pre-Group (and in some cases pre 1948/50) rodding was round section and some companies used pipe although some used sold bar.  In later years square, inverted 'U' section rodding as described by Coach has become the norm but some Regions had plenty of round rodding around until quite late on.

 

The other thing that's worth noting (maybe?) is that there are at least two types of channel rodding rollers in use - the Reading pattern and 'the others' plus the way connections off the main run to points etc were done differently by different Regions/Companies.  If you are really into the detail get correct pics for the area/Region you are modelling in order to avoid moans from pedantic rodding run nerds like me who will immediately tell you you are doing an LMR run to WR method (and will produce the pics to show you why I said that)    .

My point entirely, Mike. My researches on Halwill Junction, using means no more complicated than the Irwell Press book, show round rodding there into the '60s, and almost certainly therefore until closure. In the '80s, I can recall being with S&T engineers who referred to installations using round rodding as being in their own recent past - not ancient history. If some railways adopted square section earlier - well and good. Not knocking the Wills product, either.

[Jol Wilkinson]

It all depends where & when.  Generally Pre-Group (and in some cases pre 1948/50) rodding was round section and some companies used pipe although some used sold bar.  In later years square, inverted 'U' section rodding as described by Coach has become the norm but some Regions had plenty of round rodding around until quite late on.

 

The other thing that's worth noting (maybe?) is that there are at least two types of channel rodding rollers in use - the Reading pattern and 'the others' plus the way connections off the main run to points etc were done differently by different Regions/Companies.  If you are really into the detail get correct pics for the area/Region you are modelling in order to avoid moans from pedantic rodding run nerds like me who will immediately tell you you are doing an LMR run to WR method (and will produce the pics to show you why I said that)    .

 

According to Jack Nelson's LNWR Portrayed, the LNWR originally used iron gas piping then changed to inverted channel "square" rodding, manufactured in Crewe. When the change was introduced isn't stated.

[Merfyn Jones]

Short lengths of round section rodding to the actual points, but I'm sure the main rodding was inverted  I_I section that kept the rodding from flexing and allowed it to run on rollers wheels and definitely in use in pre-grouping days.

 

I will of course make sure that Greenfield has the right sort.

[Phil Bullock]

It all depends where & when.  Generally Pre-Group (and in some cases pre 1948/50) rodding was round section and some companies used pipe although some used sold bar.  In later years square, inverted 'U' section rodding as described by Coach has become the norm but some Regions had plenty of round rodding around until quite late on.

 

The other thing that's worth noting (maybe?) is that there are at least two types of channel rodding rollers in use - the Reading pattern and 'the others' plus the way connections off the main run to points etc were done differently by different Regions/Companies.  If you are really into the detail get correct pics for the area/Region you are modelling in order to avoid moans from pedantic rodding run nerds like me who will immediately tell you you are doing an LMR run to WR method (and will produce the pics to show you why I said that)    .

That will suit us then Mike - LMS installation taken over by the WR!

 

Phil

[Kris]

This is now showing as in stock at several model shops. 

[Guest oldlugger]

Somewhat more complex to assemble; probably a lot finer and certainly far cheaper per metre, is the Southwark Bridge Models range of SR and LSWR pattern point rodding components, which suggests using nickel silver wire of 0.2mm available from Eileen's Emporium:-

 

http://www.sbmodels.org/sbm_4mmkits.html#7

 

Very realistic when constructed.

[Guest oldlugger]

A useful article about 4mm point rodding produced by the Central London (P4) Area Group:-

 

http://www.clag.org.uk/green09.html

 

Cheers

Simon

[Butler Henderson]

Pictures of the packaged items on Kernows web site

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/prod_40978.jpg

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/prod_40979.jpg

 

First thought was **** *** ****. Obviously designed by the same person who did the conductor chairs for Peco (supplied in two parts which have to be painted in two different colours but not where the parts join). Just why have they moulded the rodding to mid point between the supports rather than ending at a support where it would be far simpler to align and disguise the joints.

[The Stationmaster]

Pictures of the packaged items on Kernows web site

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/prod_40978.jpg

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/prod_40979.jpg

 

First thought was **** *** ****. Obviously designed by the same person who did the conductor chairs for Peco (supplied in two parts which have to be painted in two different colours but not where the parts join). Just why have they moulded the rodding to mid point between the supports rather than ending at a support where it would be far simpler to align and disguise the joints.

At least doing it that way puts the joints between lengths of rod where there really are joints and it ensure consistent spacing between the stool/roller assemblies - but is there any method for joining adjacent lengths or are they butt joints?  The reason I ask that is because the pin joints look from the pics you posted almost as if they might have a sort of tongue which goes into or under the rod although that presumes the rod is shaped to accept such an arrangement.  But if it is simply a butt joint then i would agree - alignment could prove difficult.  

 

If there is any in stock I'll buy some during the coming week to see just how simple or awkward it is to put together.

[PaulRhB]

If people are worried about the butt joint just drill out the ends with a pin vise and insert a short piece of brass wire. Moulding a socket for a pip would be impossible with how they've moulded them and their system is brilliant for building up multiple rod runs so I think this was the better compromise. I've got some sets on order but as its the local shop I may have to wait a bit as deliveries aren't frequent. Time to lay the track then

[Captain Kernow]

The prototype channel rodding scales up at approx 1 and a half inches, I guess, possibly a little less, so that's about 0.33mm to 0.4mm. I haven't seen any of this product in the flesh yet, but initial reports from those who have commented above look promising. I wonder whether the model rodding is precisely to scale, or is it slightly over-thick?

 

Due to the relative difficulty in obtaining straight brass rod to the correct square section and dimensions, I've hitherto produced models of round rodding using 0.4mm brass rod from Eileens or Gibson, but it would be good if this new product enabled a good representation of the square section rodding to be produced as well.

 

What with this and the new Ratio GWR Type 7 signal box kit, we're getting spoiled for choice!

 

All that's needed now is a decent injection moulded plastic kit of Writhlington signal box!! 

[The Stationmaster]

I've had a preliminary look through the pack and done a bit of (simplistic) measuring.  The rollers are quite good representation of what I cal the BS (=British Standard) version so are suitable for all Regions except the Western in the days it was using Reading designed & manufactured assemblies, once sticks of them were exhausted it too moved over to the BS version (sort of early/mid 1980s onwards).  The rodding rollers are spaced at =9ft intervals and the rods are under 1mm square so pretty near to scale I would think and all to typically Ratio standards of tool making so removal from the moulding sprues. will require care.

 

The 'other bits' clearly represent the modern way of doing things (although suitable for the LMR and to a lesser extent other Regions for a good time back into the square rodding era so they are not suitable for Western use without a spot of modification and use of smething like microd in order to replace square section parts with round section.  The basic kit contains two sprues which each have three =9" 'L' shape cranks and three semi-circular accommodation cranks (basically as used for the leading off bed at the signalbox etc although they could be used elsewhere and there are bases for the accommodation cranks allowing three different heights.  There are also four of the modern(ish) pattern of adjustable final drive crank on each sprue together with one FPL casting and a single compensator crank assembly (moulded as a single piece so fortunately no need to assemble that.

 

So in theory a single kit can provide for a maximum of 6 rods leaving a signalbox or ground frame, a total of 8 final drives (don't forget one rod could drive both ends of a crossover) while two of the L shaped cranks would be used with FPLs (which I think should really be 9"x18' crank0 - see below leaving a total of four plain L shaped cranks to be used in the rodding run for changes of direction etc.  In additionthere are three different  height setting of what the kit calls'downset drive joints' (I call 'em pin-joints but that's probably a Westernism) which handle the transition from square rodding to round bar to make the joint with the cranks a total of ten giving the greatest drop go with 10 of the lowest height crank bases and there are six each of the other two drops with eight each of their matching bases - in other words there are some potential spares!

 

There are also a further two sprues which contain the rest of the facing point parts - a very useful (unless you're on the older Western and I think some other Regions, but not the LM) square rod with pin joints at both ends for dropping under a single rail to take the FPL drive from the cess into the four foot and a round rod to drive off the crank in the four foot to the FPL itself.  these sprues are completed by a cover to go over the FPL - something which disappeared from normal use a good whlle back.  Alas I haven't got any prototype dimensions to compare it with but it has the look of the LMR style although it lacks that Region's usual chequer plate finish.  The seemingly narrow width is maybe a concession to its use with narrow (16.5mm) gauge track.

 

So there are enough bits to do two facing points and, in some respects, a further two trailing points or potentially a total of eight trailing point ends.  The biggest disappointment is the compensators - there is a single moulding for one on each of the 'crank sprues' and it's not very good in my opinion.  Unlike manufacturers' habit of producing r-t-r locos in mid gear the comp has been modelled in anything but the basic midway setting (but who knows the difference?) and doesn't look all that good anyway.  Oddly the kit provides a total of four bases for two comps - probably the most economical way of moulding the sprues?  But only two comps for what at minimum is likely to be 4 - 6 rods does strike me as a poor ratio (no pun intended).

 

My first impression - considering all the butt joints involved between rods, and between rods and pin joints (which have open jaws at the other end - nicely moulded) is that it might pay to assemble the run and cranks on a strip of plasticard (or similar) which would help to keep things in place.

 

So is it any good?  Well without entering the fiddly process of assembling it or of trying to match it in terms of parts availability to a pre-designed rodding run the answer has to be 'yes' - the mouldings are pretty good, the rodding itself is excellent and sensible designed and it ought to look good put together with a bit of care and careful painting.  The instructions on the back of the blister pack are pretty good without going into the detail of planning a rodding run (but that can be found here and there's information in the link that Simon (Old Lugger) provided upthread.

 

What layouts will it suit?  Just about any part of the British network for late 1980s/early'90s onwards but earlier, allowing that it's square rodding, for all Regions except the Western some details being open to further investigation.

[Gwiwer]

Confirmation from Kernow MRC that mine are ready and waiting however I have chosen to have them sent with the next loco delivery (which should be the first of their Dapol Westerns) rather than have a small lightweight package come over on its own with a greater risk, despite Kernow's normally excellent packing, of in-transit damage occurring.

[coachmann]

Thanks Dave (stationmaster) for the review. Had to break off from reading it 'cos...ker-flump.....My Wills SS89 and SS90 point rodding was coming through the letterbox. Looks well detailed for those who will have it on show, while much of mine at Greenfield will be under a wooden walkway. The package is labelled 'This is not a toy' for those who profess to playing with trains.....

 

For those modelling the GWR and Western Region, the top of the square section rodding could be scraped half round section with the back of a Kraft knife....

[Miss Prism]

20 thou guitar string is about £1 per metre.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Dave (stationmaster) for the review. Had to break off from reading it 'cos...ker-flump.....My Wills SS89 and SS90 point rodding was coming through the letterbox. Looks well detailed for those who will have it on show, while much of mine at Greenfield will be under a wooden walkway. The package is labelled 'This is not a toy' for those who profess to playing with trains.....

 

For those modelling the GWR and Western Region, the top of the square section rodding could be scraped half round section with the back of a Kraft knife....

It's not so much the rodding section Larry as the rollers.  Western channel rodding was virtually the same size as the BS stuff (it was a tad wider but hardly noticeable let alone measurable in 4mm:1ft scale but the Reading design of roller assemblies is noticeably different, even in that scale.

 

Now some pics showing - hopefully - various points I made above and broadening the detail given in the Wills' instructions.

 

First of all a job done (at Scarborough) using components basically as delivered in the kit - enlarge the pic to see the detail of the rodding rollers in the background

 

 

 

Now a couple on the NYMR but very much in the 'standard' mould.  First a view of how rodding can be transferred from one side of a formation to the other - note these are basically 'L' shape cranks but that stepped cranks are also used (not in the kit).  A particular thing to note is that channel rodding is used under the track.

 

 

 

A complete overhead (almost) view of the way a facing point is rodded up showing all the various cranks including a 9"x18' crank driving the FPL (it also drives another in the opposite direction - ignore that!

 

 

 

Now we're off to Devon and first something of a mixture on the Torbay and Dartmouth line or whatever it's called this week.  The channel rodding and rollers are BS pattern but the connections to the switch and FPL have been done Western fashion using a slightly different pattern of adjustable crank and bottle adjusters in the drives to switch and FPL.

 

 

Now much nearer to pure Western being installed on the South Devon Railway at Totnes Riverside - which shows the GW pattern rollers and adjustable cranks (the one nearer camera without its cover 'dimple')

 

 

Finally two views of the leading-of bed at Bishops Bridge on the SDR - handily on the opposite side of the line from the 'box building.  Note how here - as was usual Western practice - the rods passing under the track are round rodding, not channel, using special low rollers.  In the second picture you can also see the way the accommodation cranks are arranged (Western cranks so they have their hats on ).

 

 

[coachmann]

Great photos Mike (ex Dave!) and very very useful. I've come across photos of GWR rodding and notice they run in flanged rollers, something I'd simply not spotted before you mentioned round rodding.

[Sasquatch]

Just recieved an email from the box shifters and  wipped out my flexable friend  for 3 packs to be sent ASAP. 

For round toped western style conversion I might try using 0.018"/0.46mm (or thicker) nylon coated beading wire, at $6 for 300' you can't go wrong. There's a .3mm for the signal wires too!   

Tip: Cyanoacrylate is the only way to fix nylon!

[coachmann]

Point rodding will have to sit around a while, as I'm back in work now. In anycase, it means I will have to buckle down and build a darn signalbox next....Yay, not a chucklyful of joyousness in prospect...