Bachmann announcements 2013/4

[Dunsignalling]

I pre-ordered that for a rake... and yes I was a little peeved to say the least... but I hope the "express parcels" marking can be removed with some tee cut and hidden under some weathering (I do hope)... but that's gone to the to-do pile, where it will sit for a while.

You shouldn't need anything as abrasive as T-Cut which carries a danger of going right through the paint.

 

 I'm in the process of renumbering a 9F and found that Isopropyl Alcohol on a one of those mini cotton buds was quite adequate (both obtained from my local model shop) . Wet the area and leave it alone for 2 or 3 minutes before you start for real.

 

It does leave a shiny patch where it has been rubbed but this is easy to hide under weathering.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

Hi Mike

 

We discussed this ICI tank wagon a few pages ago. Yes it is not a common design.....in fact a real oddity. Paul Bartlett  in post number 400 suggest it is "It is possibly an ammonia liquor tank, wartime build". A 20 ton, 10 ft wheelbase B liquids anchor mounted tank would be far more common, and useful to us modellers.

 

If Bachmann want to copy any of my tank wagons I would willing let them send them to China. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/&do=findComment&comment=812931

I really hope they haven't picked a one-off; it wouldn't be the first time but at least the on previous occasion only the livery was unique.

 

I bought their BOCM tank wagon a few years ago because it was a reasonably local firm only to discover that BOCM only had one tank wagon which carried whale oil from Hull Docks to Bristol once a week and returned empty - both trips probably by the same trains! 

 

John

[jjnewitt]

 

Dennis Lovett at Bachmann Europe said:

 

Bachmann undertake months (sometimes years) Research & Development for all its projects. We are not in the business of copying other peoples kits or models and the recent Award announcements reiterate that we have spent considerable time and money in the case of just one of them, the Blue Pullman, to reproduce something which no longer exists. All this is carried out in-house by our very experienced team.

 

For any project we source drawings produced by the works which constructed the original item. These are held in a number of places, the NRM at York being just one source we use. Unfortunately these may not always exist having been destroyed. This was the case for both the 150 and the Blue Pullman – so we produced our own.

 

We then assemble as many photographs of the prototype as we can. Front ¾ views of items favoured by the majority of photographers over the years are of only some use. We need details shots of the top, sides, back, front etc. Where a vehicle exists then that is achieved by assembling a portfolio of well over a hundred images – now easier with digital resources but until a few years ago we used colour film and prints.

 

Research and Development is not about sitting a nice centrally heated library. It is about crawling around, under, over and inside a vehicle in the muck and often the worst of British weathers to achieve the desired result. We are ever grateful to the many heritage railways, preservation groups and current operators who provide us with the resources to do so.

 

With 23 years experience behind us, we have established a very experienced team of contacts who are able to support our design engineers through the development process. They are experts in their fields and rest assured they soon tell us if we get something wrong.

 

In the past we have used some kit built items for catalogue pictures or for product launches to enable our dealers to see what is planned. This process was stopped due to criticism from some modellers that we copying kits and we have for the past few years only used prototype photographs (sometimes generic) to illustrate what we are producing and to enable our dealer network and their customers to identify the product. For our catalogue illustrations this year we even went to the effort of sourcing pictures of the actual item being produced (eg name and number).  Again we are well known to all the photo libraries and photographers from whom we source images as part of the design process. All the images we use are sourced from photo libraries or individual photographers and any reproduction fees duly paid in line with their use.

 

When we show models at exhibitions or in photographic form they are taken from the tooling that has been produced in China. They are grey to enable our design engineers the opportunity to mark anything they are unhappy with and this is then returned to the tool makers with a detailed report. The colour of grey can vary – colour becomes only critical at a later stage of the process. You have to appreciate that the team in China are more used to seeing Chinese locomotives and rolling stock than British and they may request additional drawings or photographs at any point during the process. This can involve additional visits or research.

 

Two of my colleagues have just returned from three days of crawling around a well known preservation site, measuring, checking, drawing, photographing and touching the real thing in icy cold conditions. They are now in the process of collating all that information ready for transfer to China and the next stage in the process.

 

I trust that this will clarify the amount of time and effort we put into each and every new model

 

 

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager

Bachmann Europe plc

Thanks for that Andy. It's nice to hear something from the horses mouth so to speak. I have no doubt that Bachmann do spend an awful lot of time and money on R&D, some of the models they have produced are absolutely stunning, The Blue Pullman being a case in point. They are not immune from making a balls up of things from time to time but then so are everyone else. From a personal point of view I think they could be a little more imaginative with their choices especailly when it comes to the wagon department. They do at least give the impression that they are slowly working their way through Parkside's catalogue. There are so many different diagrams to choose from but when it comes to a wagon type that is already avaliable invariable it ends up being the same diagram that has already been produced. Taking the Tube wagon as an example BR built 3 different diagrams which were essentially pre nationalisation designs. What was wrong with one of those instead of the 1/448 that exists as a plastic kit? I have the same issue with Hornby and their fish van. What was wrong with the never before produced 1/801 instead of the already done in kit form and as an admittedly old RTR release 1/800? Bachmann seemed to have upped their game recently certainly when it comes to locomotives producing types that I would never have dreamed that they'd do, Blue Pullman, LMS Twins, Dukedog, LNER D11 and they should be applauded for doing so. It would be nice if the wagon department followed suit.

 

Justin

 

 

[MarkSG]

In the past we have used some kit built items for catalogue pictures or for product launches to enable our dealers to see what is planned. This process was stopped due to criticism from some modellers that we copying kits and we have for the past few years only used prototype photographs (sometimes generic) to illustrate what we are producing and to enable our dealer network and their customers to identify the product.

 

Which, I think, perfectly illustrates the problems faced by the manufacturers. Personally, I think that a kit (provided, of course, it's of the same model) better illustrates a forthcoming item than a generic prototype image, or even a rather poor quality image of the specific prototype. But if people are going to complain about the use of kits as photo sources and jump to conclusions about why the kit is being used, then I can equally well understand why Bachmann now prefer to use prototype photos.

 

For our catalogue illustrations this year we even went to the effort of sourcing pictures of the actual item being produced (eg name and number).  Again we are well known to all the photo libraries and photographers from whom we source images as part of the design process. All the images we use are sourced from photo libraries or individual photographers and any reproduction fees duly paid in line with their use.

 

Which is all well and good, but (unless they've also paid for redistribution rights as well as reproduction rights) that still means that retailers can't legitimately use the same image to illustrate their pre-order page for the model.

[S.A.C Martin]

Hi Simon

 

I do hope then that Bachmann's R&D works out that the E4 is an 0-6-2T not an 0-6-0...

 

ps I do realise that Bachmann do know this already...

 

I had noticed that mistake immediately after I posted that Graham, but not being able to edit my own posts, what could I do but leave it there?

 

In any event, the sentiments remain valid: when have we had two 0-6-0s tank locomotives and an 0-6-2T tank locomotive announced at the same time? I can't remember ever being as excited at the prospect of models I'm not going to buy!

 

I'm excited because I feel it's clear that Bachmann have listened, looked at what is and what isn't available, and got their heads screwed on straight when making their choices. They are going for models which will clearly invoke multiple purchases. They are models of inside cylindered locomotives, which can reduce their development costs to the extent of not having intricate outside valve gear or a tender. They are smaller locomotives which can be sold at reasonable prices appropriate to their size and material value.

 

At the end of the day, I think Bachmann's announcements went in one direction, Hornby's went the other.

 

Hornby's announcements had a lot of excellent ideas, but not enough (if any?) of the joined up thinking which Bachmann have shown. This is a shame as Hornby have previously shown a lot of joined up thinking with their recent excellent O1, L1, B1, B17 and the suburban stock developed to go with them.

[Guest jim s-w]

I had noticed that mistake immediately after I posted that Graham, but not being able to edit my own posts, what could I do but leave it there?

 

You can't edit either? Best thing to do is pop up an 'edit' post straight after or maybe repost with the edit and ask a mod to delete the original.

 

It's no biggie.

[coachmann]

I think you will find you can edit your own posts if you click on 'More Reply Options' bottom right of reply box.

[Guest jim s-w]

Some of aren't allowed to Larry

 

You will note you are not allowed to pm me either.

[Guest jim s-w]

Edit post - sorry should have said some of us aren't allowed

[Guest Phil]

I hope that Bachmann produce the models in their catalogue.  Wrenn never produced the Adams Radial tank, the maroon and green emus or the 6 wheel passenger brake van illustrated in their catalogue although they were illustrations of models. The Adams Radial was probably a made up Ks kit while the others looked like Hornby Dublo models. An illustration of a model gives me more confidence that the model is going to materialise than a picture of a prototype because it shows the manufacturer has taken some steps towards making a production model even it is a completed kit.

Robin - Why drag up the Wrenn stuff from umpteen years ago. We are talking about Bachmann in 2013 in this thread. Have faith Robin, have faith.

[mike big gloop 1973]

nothing for me so more kits to build.Plus some scatch building 

 

[bigherb]

Excellent summary of the hard work that goes into producing Bachmann's models.  It is obvious from the Scenecraft models of prototype stations, the C class locomotives and the SR pillbox brakes that a lot of effort has been made to get the details right. I look forward to seeing the E4 and the Birdcage coaches made to a similar standard.

Then they go and put the chimney is in the wrong position on the pillbox vans. Lets hope they do a better job on the E4.

[Adams442T]

I think perhaps we ought to give Bachmann a bit of a break.  Yes, they have made blunders, like on the pillbox brake vans, and we must hope that they divert from, or are already working on another variant of, the tank wagon.  But........ as a large company they are unable to utilise the sort of close feedback contact that we enjoy with Dapol on here.

 

Their planning has to be both long term and commercially secret.  Dennis Lovett has outlined the large amount of R&D they do, and we musn't forget this is probably also covering many other models which never see light of day, due to Hornby, at al, getting in first.  R&D, in my experience as an historical researcher, always comes under pressure the nearer a production slot comes and sometimes manufacturers just have to run with where they are.  The problem of engaging with production 'slots' in China is a major factor. I know from personal experience how difficult this can be especially when a mis-forecast in the popularity of a model means that you either cannot make more, or you have to delay something else, to re-run it.

  

I also know that in the past, at least one company I worked for did take short-cuts by 'pirating' a well known kit in order to save on further R&D costs, [i.e. they decided not to pay my, quite reasonable, rates] and I must admit to a certain schadenfreude when the model came out with, of course, the same errors as the original!

 

The answer to all this?  I wish I knew.  But I feel sure that a photograph is preferable in showing their intentions to a cobbled up model.  If the photo is incorrect for the intended variant, then we can always send emails, etc. to Dennis Lovett telling him what to be wary of in that or other versions.  If we don't where will we be then?  Ah!  Yes! We might have some modelling to do..................

[Captain Kernow]

Then they go and put the chimney is in the wrong position on the pillbox vans. Lets hope they do a better job on the E4.

Well, I do hope that the chimney on the E4 is in the right place!

 

I don't think that sorting the brake van chimney is a major job, though, I'll still get a decent pill box brake van quicker than building a kit or scratchbuilding...

[Guest Phil]

I think perhaps we ought to give Bachmann a bit of a break.  Yes, they have made blunders, like on the pillbox brake vans, and we must hope that they divert from, or are already working on another variant of, the tank wagon.  But........ as a large company they are unable to utilise the sort of close feedback contact that we enjoy with Dapol on here.

Do you mean SOME of the pillbox brakevans ? From what i understand, there were a number of versions of the design and Bachmann must have produced at least some correct models.

 

Their planning has to be both long term and commercially secret.  Dennis Lovett has outlined the large amount of R&D they do, and we musn't forget this is probably also covering many other models which never see light of day, due to Hornby, at al, getting in first.  R&D, in my experience as an historical researcher, always comes under pressure the nearer a production slot comes and sometimes manufacturers just have to run with where they are.  The problem of engaging with production 'slots' in China is a major factor. I know from personal experience how difficult this can be especially when a mis-forecast in the popularity of a model means that you either cannot make more, or you have to delay something else, to re-run it.

  

I also know that in the past, at least one company I worked for did take short-cuts by 'pirating' a well known kit in order to save on further R&D costs, [i.e. they decided not to pay my, quite reasonable, rates] and I must admit to a certain schadenfreude when the model came out with, of course, the same errors as the original!

 

The answer to all this?  I wish I knew.  But I feel sure that a photograph is preferable in showing their intentions to a cobbled up model.  If the photo is incorrect for the intended variant, then we can always send emails, etc. to Dennis Lovett telling him what to be wary of in that or other versions.  If we don't where will we be then?  Ah!  Yes! We might have some modelling to do..................

[Dunsignalling]

Do you mean SOME of the pillbox brakevans ? From what i understand, there were a number of versions of the design and Bachmann must have produced at least some correct models.

Yes.

 

The ones with the right hand ducket are correct but they have unfortunately used exactly the same roof layout on the ones with left hand duckets.

 

John

[Alan Higgi]

Yes.

 

The ones with the right hand ducket are correct but they have unfortunately used exactly the same roof layout on the ones with left hand duckets.

 

John

 

Oh! I didn't know that.   I made a real pig's ear out of my Cambrian kit so was considering buying one. Geoff Kent's 

4mm Wagon Part 3 proves it was me and not the kit. These vans got about a bit. Stafford, Crewe etc. Any advance on Crewe for Northern wanderings?

[Fat Controller]

Oh! I didn't know that.   I made a real pig's ear out of my Cambrian kit so was considering buying one. Geoff Kent's 

4mm Wagon Part 3 proves it was me and not the kit. These vans got about a bit. Stafford, Crewe etc. Any advance on Crewe for Northern wanderings?

Pretty certain I saw one, in Engineer's use, around Tyne Yard once.

[Guest Max Stafford]

More than a few sightings in Scotland. Even a Queen Mary made it to Millerhill in 1964!

 

Dave.

[Alan Higgi]

There is a "Queen Mary" in a parcels train, behind a Duchess, at Stafford, in one of my DVDs on Stanier Pacifics!

[Porcy Mane]

Pretty certain I saw one, in Engineer's use, around Tyne Yard once.

They were seen on a regular basis in the North East throughout the Fifties and Sixties.  I've got phots  them at Blyth, Newsham, Stella Gill, Waskerley, Egton, Etc., etc. Here's one just about to cross the Victoria Viaduct. Ian Krauss and Colin Gifford photographed the same train a mile or so further on, from atop of Usworth Pitheap.

 

More than a few sightings in Scotland. Even a Queen Mary made it to Millerhill in 1964!

 

Dave.

Don Rowland certainly photted a few there in 1964.

They were also regulars on the Aberdeen > Kings Cross  (And return) fish trains about the same time. Don't know if it was because of their riding qualities or for the same reasons the LNER used a BG as brake on the same working in the Thirties and Forties. The BG was used for fish picked up from stations en route through Scotland.

Porcy

[Michael Delamar]

Queen mary at Manchester Newton heath on one of the B&R videos.

 

and ive seen shots of those pillbox ones around Liverpool in the steam era. there is footage of one being fly shunted at Lister driver power station Liverpool.

[Guest stuartp]

More than a few sightings in Scotland. Dave.

 

Mauchline in the 60s certainly -  http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=198988

 

Also the Port Road on one of the demolition trains. There's some cine film of one being propelled through the Ayrshire coalfield at a fair old rate of knots by a Black 5 on one of the B&E Videos volumes.  

[tractor_37260]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before or not.  Noticed today in the latest Bachmann Collectors Club mag, announced for a May release - 39-001W :  BR MK1 RTC Derby Twin Pack of Lab 10 and Lab 11.   Hopefully the MK1 BSO will now be added to the coaching stock range also.

 

[Guest stuartp]

BR MK1 RTC Derby Twin Pack of Lab 10 and Lab 11.   Hopefully the MK1 BSO will now be added to the coaching stock range also.

 

I should be so lucky. Bet you a quid Lab 10 is a reliveried BCK. I look forward to being proved wrong !