Bachmann announcements 2013/4

[Adams442T]

I thought - and I accept I'm the novice here - that "scumbling" was the practice of painting faux teak/wooden finishes, whether it was brush or spray painted?

 

Is there a distinction between scumbling being brush painted, and spray painting the teak finish? If so, that's a rather fascinating trip up in the English language I've suffered there!

I think 'scumbling' describes the overlaying of a colour, or coloured varnish, which was traditionally applied using the 'dry brushing' technique.  Originally this technique was used in painting house doors and furniture in the Victorian period.  My grandfather was a dab hand at it and painted most of the front doors in Hampstead!  Spraying is an easier & quicker way of achieving pretty much an identical result so it's no surprise that it was used for painting something as big as a coach .

[Removed a/c]

Faux bois is the term for a fake wood finish. 

[petethemole]

Rather than dry brushing, scumbling (simply) is the use of a varnish-like darker brown layer over a light cream-ish undercoat, then producing the grain effect with a comb that removes streaks of the dark top layer. i grew up in a 30s house with most of the woodwork scumbled and fancied doing some in the house I bought in the 80s, until I worked out the time it would take.  

Pete

[Porcy Mane]

I thought - and I accept I'm the novice here - that "scumbling" was the practice of painting faux teak/wooden finishes, whether it was brush or spray painted?

 

I thought scumbling could only be done manually using the combing technique as explained earlier. I would imagine that the application of scumble via a spray gun would be akin to spaying tartan paint.

 

Porcy

[brushman47544]

When Bachmann produce their 39-527 BR SR green Parcels and Miscellanious Van I hope that they paint it in a livery to match the Hornby R4536A BR Bogie Passenger Brake. Both Hornby based in Margate and Graham-Farish, when it was based at Poole, got the correct livery for their BR SR coaches whereas Hornby-Dublo based in Liverpool and Bachmann based in Barwell have got the wrong shade of green as have Replica and Mainline.

 

The original shade of green used by Bachmann was too light and those coaches are in a lighter green than the Hornby Southern Railway malachite green coaches. The shade is acceptable and not far off the shade of green used for coaches currently on the Swanage Railway. The present shade of green used on Bachmann's Mk1s is much too dark. They do not match their own earlier coaches or those made by other manufacturers. There is a surplus of Bachmann BR SR green coaches at Hattons, at model railway exhibitions and other model railway shops selling at reduced prices and the colour may be a factor. There also seems to be a surplus of the excellent Hornby Maunsell BR SR green coaches so perhaps everyone who wants BR SR green coaches has already bought them. 

 

I agree - I would like to make up both 3 and 4-car Mk1 coach sets in BR(SR) green (BSK+CK+(SK+)BSK) but will not buy Bachmann's Mk1s in the current green. I have previously emailed Bachmann requesting a more accurate green, but I also remember reading somewhere that Dennis Lovett considered Bachmann's current green was correct, so am not holding my breath. Perhaps if others email too the message may carry enough weight... 

 

I would also like to see Bachmann scale up its new Bulleids from N to OO in due course, but again will only buy if the green is right. At the mo I'm wondering whether Hornby might be a better bet with its new Railroad Mk1 coaches. At least the green should match its Maunsells and the level of detail might be sufficient for me at least. And yes I have made the suggestion to Simon Kohler.

[GWRLMSLNER]

Unfortunately we all know that Bachmann's interpretation of SR green et al is CORRECT and so is Hornby's green correct. That is because all the coach colours, LMS in particular, fade and change with time. It is also known that not every batch would have been the same identical colour from the start and in any case the length in service has a major impact on older paint mixes compared to today's far more stable colours.

 

Coaches in a salt laden sea atmosphere suffer different fade factors to those in heavy polluted urban areas. No trains except perhaps a few special cases such as all new stock/repaints for named expresses actually had either matching coaches or matching paint and varnish levels on otherwise matching stock. LNER stock in their teak finish looked great when new but faded into a mix of virtually different coloured panels. So whatever the new Bachmann SR green is it will be fine and real trains were never like a new set of coaches in matching livery after a year or so in traffic. I have a number of LMS Period 3 bogie parcels vans and the colours vary considerably not just between the Mainline models and the latest Hornby ones but between vans from the same stable (should that be carriage shed?). They work well together and look more realistic than a train of matching Hornby Hawksworth (1949) stock - but I love them also.

 

John

[brushman47544]

Unfortunately we all know that Bachmann's interpretation of SR green et al is CORRECT and so is Hornby's green correct. That is because all the coach colours, LMS in particular, fade and change with time. It is also known that not every batch would have been the same identical colour from the start and in any case the length in service has a major impact on older paint mixes compared to today's far more stable colours.

 

Coaches in a salt laden sea atmosphere suffer different fade factors to those in heavy polluted urban areas. No trains except perhaps a few special cases such as all new stock/repaints for named expresses actually had either matching coaches or matching paint and varnish levels on otherwise matching stock. LNER stock in their teak finish looked great when new but faded into a mix of virtually different coloured panels. So whatever the new Bachmann SR green is it will be fine and real trains were never like a new set of coaches in matching livery after a year or so in traffic. I have a number of LMS Period 3 bogie parcels vans and the colours vary considerably not just between the Mainline models and the latest Hornby ones but between vans from the same stable (should that be carriage shed?). They work well together and look more realistic than a train of matching Hornby Hawksworth (1949) stock - but I love them also.

 

John

 

Correct or not, hmmmm.

 

I recently bought an LS Models SNCF BB22200, which was reviewed in a recent issue of the magazine Voies Ferrees and elsewhere. Excellent in all respects except that LS Models has been heavily criticised for not replicating exactly the colour of the original locomotives against the official colour swatch. Yes, I appreciate that colour changes over time not least due to different exposure to the elements, but personally I'm in the camp that says an "ex works" model in a pristine finish, which is what the Bachmann coaches are unless sold as weathered, should be in the official colour and matched to it. I can then decide, depending on where my model railway is based, how the coaches may have weathered and therefore what they should look like on my model railway.

[newbryford]

Correct or not, hmmmm.

 

I recently bought an LS Models SNCF BB22200, which was reviewed in a recent issue of the magazine Voies Ferrees and elsewhere. Excellent in all respects except that LS Models has been heavily criticised for not replicating exactly the colour of the original locomotives against the official colour swatch. Yes, I appreciate that colour changes over time not least due to different exposure to the elements, but personally I'm in the camp that says an "ex works" model in a pristine finish, which is what the Bachmann coaches are unless sold as weathered, should be in the official colour and matched to it. I can then decide, depending on where my model railway is based, how the coaches may have weathered and therefore what they should look like on my model railway.

 

Going a bit O/T = colour doesn't always "scale down". An example I was told about was 60074 in Teenage Cancer Trust blue. The model was painted to the same Pantone reference number as the prototype and it didn't look right. Hornby then used the next shade along to make it look "right". IIRC, the prototype is Pantone 292 and the model is Pantone 2915.

 

As John says a couple of posts above, colour fades and colour mixes may be different from one week to the next. Even modern paint can fade quickly - lots of examples of various shades of Network Rail yellow for example.........

 

And to further the colour problem - how many of us view models in natural daylight?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Porcy Mane]

An example of a Thompson coach in what would appear to be BR applied(?) brown livery in this early fifties film clip at 3' 27".

 

Porcy

[davidw]

An example of a Thompson coach in what would appear to be BR applied(?) brown livery in this early fifties film clip at 3' 27".

 

Porcy

Thanks for that

[Alan Higgi]

Viewing distance affects colour as does weather conditions. Worst of all is memory! I paint my stuff to suit me and my coaches are a shade or two closer to red than  maroon but otherwise Precision Paint suits me down to the ground on every thing. Esp SR green!

[Robin Brasher]

Bachmann's strong point is the excellent range of steam era goods wagons which I think are much better than those produced by Hornby and Dapol. The BR SR Pill Box Brake Vans have already nearly sold out and Bachmann is going to produce new issues of the grey one in weathered condition and the bauxite one. It is also intoducing new models like the GWR shunters truck and the BR pipe and tube wagon.

 

I live near a station shop on a preserved railway line where most items are being offered for sale at the full retail price although premier life members have a 10% discount. Here most of both Bachmann and Hornby locomotives and coaches have remained languishing on the shelves for over a year but the sales of Bachmann wagons have been good. Buying a Bachmann wagon is within most people's budget, can be easily carried in the train and represents good value for money. It can also be cheaper than ordering one from Hattons.

 

The shop has just taken a fresh delivery of Bachmann wagons.

[Dunsignalling]

Bachmann's strong point is the excellent range of steam era goods wagons which I think are much better than those produced by Hornby and Dapol. The BR SR Pill Box Brake Vans have already nearly sold out and Bachmann is going to produce new issues of the grey one in weathered condition and the bauxite one. It is also intoducing new models like the GWR shunters truck and the BR pipe and tube wagon.

 

I live near a station shop on a preserved railway line where most items are being offered for sale at the full retail price although premier life members have a 10% discount. Here most of both Bachmann and Hornby locomotives and coaches have remained languishing on the shelves for over a year but the sales of Bachmann wagons have been good. Buying a Bachmann wagon is within most people's budget, can be easily carried in the train and represents good value for money. It can also be cheaper than ordering one from Hattons.

 

The shop has just taken a fresh delivery of Bachmann wagons.

I rarely buy new locos when away from home (other than occasionally at exhibitions) but am always on the lookout for old stock or used examples of releases I have missed.

 

Collecting Bachmann wagons certainly sneaks up on you and I often come home from visiting a heritage line with another one tucked away in my camera bag!

 

I did a stocktake recently (mainly to stop me duplicating things I already had) and I think I'll need another three layouts!

 

John

[Bartb]

I agree about Bachmann wagons, they are far better than others. Though when Hornby and Dapol make the effort to make a new wagon they are just as good. It is the variety of wagons that makes Bachmann stand out.

John

[Dunsignalling]

I agree about Bachmann wagons, they are far better than others. Though when Hornby and Dapol make the effort to make a new wagon they are just as good. It is the variety of wagons that makes Bachmann stand out.

John

It is such a pity that Hornby pick so few steam era wagons for new models to modern standards. When they do, they seem reluctant to produce them in 1950s/60s liveries - surely the black 'Shark' justified more than one short run when they produced so many in Engineer's 'Dutch' that they could eventually be got for the price of Bachmann mineral wagons?

 

Most of the better wagons representing that period in their existing range have their origins in Airfix products of the early 1980s. They were far better than anything else available back then and the body mouldings still look good today, but that was 30 years ago.

 

Wagons of similar quality to their recent NPCCS releases (GWR Horseboxes and SR Passenger brakes) are needed to get them back in the game. Are they being scared off the 1930s/1940s/1950s prototypes by the quality and quantity on offer in blue boxes? 

 

John

[Ian J.]

What gets me is that Bachmann are the only company to produce a decent RTR example of the 16T mineral wagon. If there was one subject to make money out of I'd have thought that would be it, but Hornby and Dapol have ignored it to date, only producing versions from old toolings that don't compare.

[Dunsignalling]

What gets me is that Bachmann are the only company to produce a decent RTR example of the 16T mineral wagon. If there was one subject to make money out of I'd have thought that would be it, but Hornby and Dapol have ignored it to date, only producing versions from old toolings that don't compare.

Bachmann have generally positioned themselves to cater for 'bread and butter' layout requirements in wagons and coaches, especially the BR Mk.1 range. I would guess this gives them a steadier turnover profile than Hornby's as, during spells with no new locos to attract our pounds, most of us can find excuses to add a coach or a couple of wagons to our collections!

 

Hornby have tended to go for eye-catching items with 'wow-factor' such as their lit Pullman cars but they have probably overtaken Bachmann by producing several superb ranges of mainstream coaches in recent years. The protracted development period of Bachmann's Stanier'Porthole' stock will not have helped.

 

It will not have been lost on either maker that there is as much profit to be earned from a rake of such coaches as there is on the loco pulling them.

 

We can expect future Hornby coach ranges to follow the Design Clever concept but it will be interesting to see if this might eventually lead to new super detailed wagons having Railroad equivalents with simplified liveries and omitting separately applied chassis parts.

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

Whether Bachmann makes more profit on a rake of coaches than a locomotive depends upon whether Bachmann has made a popular subject and how well the model has been made. Bachmann is not going to sell many BR SR coaches if the purchaser perceives them to have been painted in the wrong livery that does not match its previous coaches, coaches on heritage railways or those made by Replica, Hornby or coaches made in the past and utility vans made by Dapol.

 

A purchaser can easily spend more money on a rake of coaches or a rake of goods wagons than a locomotive without realising it.

 

At present there is a glut of some new coaches and a lot of second hand coaches. Pullmans, BR green Bulleids and Mk1s, blue and grey Mk1s and maroon restaurant cars are either languishing on the shelves of model shops or Hattons is trying to sell them at bargain prices. Most maroon Mk1s are selling very well and with the goods stock will provide Bachmann with a steady income.

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann have missed out on the opportunity to make limited runs of private owner wagons for firms like Wessex Wagons and Dapol have stepped in to fill this gap in the market. Dapol do not produce a suitable brake van for a pre-grouping rake of private owner wagons whereas I think that Bachmann's Midland Brake Van could be painted in pre-grouping liveries if Bachmann produced them in small quantities. I realise that a lot of people do not agree with me and they want authentic pre-grouping brake vans.

[Dunsignalling]

Whether Bachmann makes more profit on a rake of coaches than a locomotive depends upon whether Bachmann has made a popular subject and how well the model has been made. Bachmann is not going to sell many BR SR coaches if the purchaser perceives them to have been painted in the wrong livery that does not match its previous coaches, coaches on heritage railways or those made by Replica, Hornby or coaches made in the past and utility vans made by Dapol.

 

A purchaser can easily spend more money on a rake of coaches or a rake of goods wagons than a locomotive without realising it.

 

At present there is a glut of some new coaches and a lot of second hand coaches. Pullmans, BR green Bulleids and Mk1s, blue and grey Mk1s and maroon restaurant cars are either languishing on the shelves of model shops or Hattons is trying to sell them at bargain prices. Most maroon Mk1s are selling very well and with the goods stock will provide Bachmann with a steady income.

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann have missed out on the opportunity to make limited runs of private owner wagons for firms like Wessex Wagons and Dapol have stepped in to fill this gap in the market. Dapol do not produce a suitable brake van for a pre-grouping rake of private owner wagons whereas I think that Bachmann's Midland Brake Van could be painted in pre-grouping liveries if Bachmann produced them in small quantities. I realise that a lot of people do not agree with me and they want authentic pre-grouping brake vans.

I think Bachmann will have worked out for themselves by now that lots of potential buyers have been put off by the dark green they have been using of late!

 

As for private owner wagons, they fall into a number of categories:

 

1. Authentic liveries on models of the correct type of vehicle. A lot of Hornby's smaller wagons fall into this group as do Dapol productions based on their 9' wb underframe. Most of Bachmann's are right, too but their wagons are post-1923 designs.

 

2. Authentic liveries on models of incorrect vehicles.There are still far too many 10' wb steel underframed 7-planks (one Airfix legacy we should not be grateful for!) out there carrying early 20th Century liveries (Hornby and Dapol are regular offenders). Even some of Bachmann's otherwise excellent models of 1920s 12-ton RCH opens carry markings suggesting the liveries are based on older 10-ton prototypes.

 

3. Fictitious liveries on models of incorrect vehicles. The colour schemes are often based on lorries belonging to firms who never operated railway wagons and some vans bear a suspicious resemblance to old beer mats. Real PO vans were extremely rare and most seem to have been built by Hurst Nelson (NOT the LMS, SR, or BR) to a design I have only ever seen modelled from scratch and that only a couple of times.

 

Unfortunately, the numbers falling into category three are huge but quite a lot of collectors seem to like them. Run them if you must, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you do it in public.

 

Bachmann's forthcoming brake vans appear to be oldish LMS types based on late Midland designs - why not get some transfers and do it yourself if you want Midland markings on them, it's not like performing open heart surgery!

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

A purchaser can easily spend more money on a rake of coaches or a rake of goods wagons than a locomotive without realising it.

Why should this not be so?  They shouldn't just be there to give the loco something to do.

 

Properly modelled coaches and wagons are just as important as locomotives in creating a model railway.

 

John

[PaulRhB]

And the bodyshell takes as much work on either loco or stock which is why modern coaches with lots of details seem expensive to some

[coachmann]

Loco centricity is rife in the plastic RTR game so it should come as no suprise that coaches seem expensive to these dear folk. Personally I welcome RTR coaches if they save me the work of building them, but reality tells me I will always have to build them if I want to model BR as it really was in my chosen era and not as it was in dreams with neat little rakes of matching coaches all built to the same design with matching exterior paintwork.

[Robin Brasher]

The Bachmann Branchline 2013/14 catalogue has been very well written. Each section has a contents page and it is easy to find items if you are modelling a specific period. There are colour photographs of the prototype for future items. There are no quarterly expected dates for new items so people are not filled with false hopes about arrival dates.

 

The packaging of Bachmann items is very good. It is compact and the items are easy to remove from the packaging.

[Dunsignalling]

Loco centricity is rife in the plastic RTR game so it should come as no suprise that coaches seem expensive to these dear folk. Personally I welcome RTR coaches if they save me the work of building them, but reality tells me I will always have to build them if I want to model BR as it really was in my chosen era and not as it was in dreams with neat little rakes of matching coaches all built to the same design with matching exterior paintwork.

Fortunately for me, the Southern Region DID run many of their coaches round in neat little matching rakes.

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

Although the Southern Region and the Southern Railway ran most of the regular services in neat fixed rates this did not apply to trains from other parts of the Country. One example is the City of Bristol Holiday Express from Bristol to Swanage. The locomotive was Winston Churchill that used to be produced by Hornby. The train was a mixture of crimson and cream and maroon BR WR Collett and maroon BR LMR Stanier coaches. There was a Collett cafeteria coach but it was possible to buy the whole train from ready to run items from the Hornby and Bachmann ranges or from the Mainline Palitoy range. In the 2013/14 Bachmann catalogue the Collett coaches are only available in Great Western Railway livery. It is possible to repaint them in BR crimson and cream or BR maroon and I did repaint the brown and cream coaches crimson and cream before Bachmann introduced the crimson and cream versions. This is more difficult than repainting a goods brake van in pregrouping livery.

 

I was hoping that instead of cutting down the range of liveries for the Collett coaches Bachmann would have produced a Collett cafeteria or restaurant car but this is available in kit form. Due to the relatively poor sales of the BR RMB miniature buffet cars in maroon and blue and grey I can understand the commercial reasons for not producing pre-nationalisation restaurant cars.There are also no BR Mk1 green restaurant or buffet cars in the current Bachmann catalogue.