Great British Locomotives

[rowanj]

This is the Butler-Henderson converted to the earlier D10. What changes were needed are over on my thread along with a couple of extra photos.

I have another couple of projects in the pipeline as time permits. I found a pic of J38/2 65912 in 1964 near Heaton north of Newcastle in august 1964 so this will be the conversion from the J39. As a J38/2 I won't need to modify the boiler, but the loco is towing a 3500 tender. My last "Evening Star" will be paired with a BR1b tender from the 4MT mogul and a Dave Alexander kit bought to produce a Tyne Dock loco.

[Horsetan]

Almost there now, though more filling needed.....

 

 

I'm going to have an ice cold Hoegaarden now whilst I think about what should be done next. There are so many things I want to do to this model, animal, vegetable or mineral....

Edited June 27, 2015 by Horsetan

[Il Grifone]

It is worth pointing out that Tri-ang and Tri-ang Hornby also used foam packing in the 1960s. It does exactly the same to Margate Models.

 

Tri-ang also used foam packing pieces in some loco tenders (to hold the weight down to the chassis) the R.759 Hall, and the "Flying Scotsman" models come to mind.

 

These can break down, and the "bits" leak out of the holes in the chassis base and get everywhere...corroding anything they touch!

 

Their excuse is not knowing this would happen (cf impure mazak and the effect of the packaging cardboard on Dublo lithographic finishes). I doubt that they were expecting a life of fifty years plus however.

 

At the time, we used to cover walls and ceilings with this dreadful stuff......

[Horsetan]

It is worth pointing out that Tri-ang and Tri-ang Hornby also used foam packing in the 1960s. It does exactly the same to Margate Models.

 

Tri-ang also used foam packing pieces in some loco tenders (to hold the weight down to the chassis) the R.759 Hall, and the "Flying Scotsman" models come to mind.

 

These can break down, and the "bits" leak out of the holes in the chassis base and get everywhere...corroding anything they touch!

Foam also found its way into other things. Bell Helmets, which produced the world's first full-face helmet for motor racing and motorcycling way back in 1968, used foam for the crown and cheek pieces of the Bell Star 1 and 2 helmets. Guess what happened over time?

[Hroth]

Foam is unreliable stuff.  Its also used as light-trap material in all sorts of (mainly) 35mm cameras.  There's nothing more depressing than opening the camera back to find strings of sticky mush where the foam used to be...  I suppose its possible that the failure mode is when the material is under compression.  I've also experienced it with a Zenit UPA5 portable photographic enlarger where the case was lined in the stuff to hold the enlarger components in place.  What a mess!

 

Foam for long term storage: just say NO!

 

 

edit: (Just found a link to a pic of a typical UPA5 foam disaster !  http://www.submin.com/general/collection/accessories/zenith_upa5m.htm )

Edited June 27, 2015 by Hroth

[Il Grifone]

I think we are referring to various types of plastic foam, though the end result and the cause is the same - chemical reaction/plasiciser migration. Most of the packing is expanded polystyrene (ceiling tile material), which, besides its instability, is also inflammable and gives off toxic fumes when it burns!     ). Other foams also break down over time and, as suggested, pressure probably speeds up the process.

 

I must go through my stored treasures, though any foam is going to be the more modern stuff, which I think (read 'hope') is less affected.

 

Rubber will also show a similar effect. It goes hard and brittle, coupled with an undesirable tendency to stick to things (especially if it's not wanted of course!). Old wiring and Dinky Toy tyres are particular victims.

 

Apparently vehicle tyres require to be replaced after a few years......

[Hroth]

I think we are referring to various types of plastic foam, though the end result and the cause is the same - chemical reaction/plasiciser migration. Most of the packing is expanded polystyrene (ceiling tile material), which, besides its instability, is also inflammable and gives off toxic fumes when it burns!     ). Other foams also break down over time and, as suggested, pressure probably speeds up the process.

 

I must go through my stored treasures, though any foam is going to be the more modern stuff, which I think (read 'hope') is less affected.

 

Rubber will also show a similar effect. It goes hard and brittle, coupled with an undesirable tendency to stick to things (especially if it's not wanted of course!). Old wiring and Dinky Toy tyres are particular victims.

 

Apparently vehicle tyres require to be replaced after a few years......

Hmmm - perhaps you're right.  I'd interpreted "foam" as the thin soft flexible stuff, rather than expanded polystyrene.  Perhaps the solution is to loosely wrap the model in whats called "archival, acid-free" tissue paper before placing it in a expanded polystyrene cradle, or in one of those wrap-around plastic clip/sleeve assemblies that are popular at the moment.

 

As for dinky tyres, they're just exhibiting prototypical behaviour.  Perhaps in line with modern practice, they ought to have a "discard by" date code embossed on the side?

 

Now back to GBL.

 

I've fitted a Lima motor bogie/trailing bogie to the diecast GBL Western chassis, after a bit of drilling, grinding and fitting. Had to remove some of the roof stiffeners for clearance, though with no external modifications...

 

It goes like a bomb, but stopping from full chat is fun, especially if there's something in the way like a wagon or a buffer stop!

[Il Grifone]

Whatever type of plastic foam, the end result is the same. Acid-free tissue is my preferred answer, but I'm still not keen on foam as packing. Cardboard comes free from the supermarket....

 

The original Dinky tyres are 'collectible'!

 

The few I own have replica tyres fitted...... (Let's not exaggerate!)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Il Grifone

[HeeleyBridge]

The  foam lining in my mandolin case completely ruined the instrument. In storage for nine months the foam ate away the laquer and the glue. I bought the case to protect it, not a happy bunny.

[davidsmith_uk]

My K's kit built Q1 is looking old and naive and could do with an updated body and tender.

 

With the end of the GBL series in sight I wish they had released the Q1 (an unusual looking loco but probably too ugly for the masses).

A project to motorise a GBL version would have been enjoyable.

 

At least there is the Nelson due soon to keep me occupied.

[Keith George]

My K's kit built Q1 is looking old and naive and could do with an updated body and tender.

 

With the end of the GBL series in sight I wish they had released the Q1 (an unusual looking loco but probably too ugly for the masses).

A project to motorise a GBL version would have been enjoyable.

 

At least there is the Nelson due soon to keep me occupied.

 

A   Q1 would have been far more welcome by me than that Eastern monstrosity of similar proportions  a few issues back.

 

Keith.

[WD0-6-0]

A   Q1 would have been far more welcome by me than that Eastern monstrosity of similar proportions  a few issues back.

 

Keith.

Oh dear… oh dear dear.

Lemaître Hat, olive green coat, running for the door

[Horsetan]

...back to GBL.

 

I've fitted a Lima motor bogie/trailing bogie to the diecast GBL Western chassis, after a bit of drilling, grinding and fitting. Had to remove some of the roof stiffeners for clearance, though with no external modifications...

 

It goes like a bomb, but stopping from full chat is fun, especially if there's something in the way like a wagon or a buffer stop!

It's always useful to have the Dapol model as a point of reference. I still need to fill in above the buffer beam at this end.

 

I think it might be easier to start flattening the roof cowls before attacking the roof cover panels. The b'stard file has been working overtime on this model more than any other.

 

I'm still marvelling at how Lima spent a considerable sum of money getting it wrong, when they could have spent a similar sum to produce something essentially right. Thing is, it doesn't take that long to spot where the mistakes are, and none - so far - are impossible to rectify.

 

If you look at the size of the Dapol headcode screens, they are markedly taller than the GBL/Lima. It may only be fractions of a millimetre, but those fractions can make all the difference to the look and feel of a model.

 

The one gimmick I'd really like to have a go at is a working headcode box, with rollers that actually roll. The late Monty Wells (de Havilland MRS) was doing exactly that sort of thing with his improved Mainline and Hornby diesels in the early 1980s, long before DCC was ever thought of, when chips were still in the Sinclair ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Horsetan

[46256]

Monty wells, ,loved his articles, always inspired me ...up there with Mr jenkinson...Essery...dyer..rice...Wright..shakleton...Williams...Jackson..finney ...edge...had the privelage of meeting some of these great modellers.....on thing in common all true gents ....

[Hroth]

A   Q1 would have been far more welcome by me than that Eastern monstrosity of similar proportions  a few issues back.

 

Keith.

A Q1 is all very well, but where do you put the key?

 

Nods to WA Stanier and leaves, pursued by a (Great) Bear......

[Horsetan]

I had another comparison between the Dapol and Heljan buffers. The Dapol ones seem quite long in the rams compared to the Heljan ones. Broadside photographs of Westerns seem few and far between because photographers invariably went for the "front three-quarter" view.

 

In respect of the roof cowls, it looks like I'll have to knock off the vents first to make filing easier - shame, as I wanted to be able to keep them in place.

 

Monty wells, loved his articles ....

Him and Hayden Reed.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Horsetan

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Well it has not been my week. One of my mainline 4mt's has bust it's left hand valvegear.Looked at the Bachmann website and lo and behold they still list them. Well sent a quick email off to them asking how much they are. Only to get a reply saying they no longer stock them. Now what I need to know is does any one know where I might be able to buy them. Ebay does not have them. I really do not want to have to try and buy a complete chassis.

All help would be greatfully received.

[Steamport Southport]

It may be worth asking in the RMweb wanted section. Plenty of people on here have probably changed chassis from Mainline ones to newer Bachmann or scale chassis such as Comet, and kept the old parts as spares.

 

Possibly try Peter's Spares. Or wait until the parts do turn up on Ebay. It might be a while, but they do turn up quite often. I was always seeing them as I was actively looking for cheap 4MT bodies at one point.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Monty Wells? He's the one to blame.

 

If it wasn't for his articles in RM then I probably wouldn't have started detailing diesels as a teenager. "Frogeyes" 37 and then the Lima 33 were the first two attempts. Still got them and they still stand up reasonably well. He was a breath of fresh air at the time and wrote with a sense of humour. I wasn't even that into diesels at the time, but the articles were so easy to follow that I became obsessed with them.

 

Jason

[Horsetan]

Monty Wells? He's the one to blame.

 

If it wasn't for his articles in RM then I probably wouldn't have started detailing diesels as a teenager....

 

I've just dug out two of his RM articles from the early 1980s - the one on the Hymeks (a major mechanical rebuild in those days using 10'6" bogies from the Mainline Warship) and the other on the Mainline "Peaks".

 

I can't find the other ones he wrote for RM but, in one (it may have been for the Class 47), he made a working headcode system using a hexagonal "roller" - with his chosen headcodes fixed to each of the six "faces" of the roller. The roller axle was then connected to a thumbwheel (hidden between the fuel tanks on the underframe) via a rubber band. Spinning the thumbwheel changed the headcodes! What I wanted to try out was a system for making the four characters independent of each other.

[Wolf27]

Think the loco with the rotating head codes was the fictional 'Taurus' April 1983 or 84 issue.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[railroadbill]

It was certainly April (the first) the name Taurus was a clue (geddit?) as in load of old. I remember this issue - the problem with the rotating hexagonal pencil with different head codes on each face is this. Push a hexagonal pencil up against a flat surface (like a headcode panel) and try and turn it.

If there's enough clearance to turn it then its too far from the panel. Instead, some sort of moving band like the full size blinds perhaps?

 

I did like Monty Wells genuine detailing articles back in the day.

[Hroth]

I'm always wary of April magazine issues. Editors feel duty bound to slip in a jokey article/review in honour of the season, and they're mainly the most atrociously cringeworthy efforts possible.  Its enough to make you want to bin the things unopened when they come through the door!

[Horsetan]

Turning my attention to the Western roof cowling, I was about to start using the Brassmasters "layer method" shown here. However, when scanning the photos of the finished product, it occurred to me that there was still something not quite right about the look of the corrected cowl.

 

Brassmasters say, in their online instructions: "....Clean the paint off the front of the brow, then laminate six layers of 10 thou styrene sheet to the brow, one at a time allowing the solvent to completely evaporate between applications.  Trim and smooth the extension to match the existing roof profile...." For me, this is only half the story, because it says nothing about the fact that the Western roof cowl incorporates at least two different arcs, with the centre section being noticeably flatter than the extremities - this is correctly rendered by the Dapol model, but famously not by any of its predecessors. The other complication is that I shifted the existing roof section forward, so the six-layer laminate might actually be too much.

[RJS1977]

I'm always wary of April magazine issues. Editors feel duty bound to slip in a jokey article/review in honour of the season, and they're mainly the most atrociously cringeworthy efforts possible.  Its enough to make you want to bin the things unopened when they come through the door!

 

There hasn't been one in Railway Modeller for some years (sadly, from my viewpoint as I always enjoyed reading them - some, like Taurus and the guys who "Built" a portable layout that could be taken to a beach in three Transit vans and connected end to end to represent the Nullabor plain, often taking a reread before I twigged them. And as for "C.A. Parfitt"'s model of the London Underground under his floorboards - a work of genius!

 

I sent one in myself a few years ago about the special train Network Rail use for laying "glued ballast", which as well as the ballast  wagons,also included two tank wagoins carrying water and PVA glue, and a third tanker - contents unknown,but it was white with a red nozzle on one end and a green picture of a baby on one side. It wasn't published :-(

 

However, I did manage to get a spoof article about fireless Double Fairlies into the 009 News once - the Editor had sent it to print before he realised! Last laugh was at me though as someone showed me photos of a real one!

 

Of course, the ultimate "April Fool's Spoof" would have to be the black City of Truro!