RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted May 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2014 The one thing I'd noticed to be missing completely, and I don't think anyone has commented on this so far - is the whistle. Ironic to me, as this feature was originally missing from my weathered Hornby Model of this loco (with the same running number) some years back. Hornby supplied a replacement on request at that time. Somehow I don't see GBL having a stock of these to hand. Regards, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 The one thing I'd noticed to be missing completely, and I don't think anyone has commented on this so far - is the whistle. Ironic to me, as this feature was originally missing from my weathered Hornby Model of this loco (with the same running number) some years back. Hornby supplied a replacement on request at that time. Somehow I don't see GBL having a stock of these to hand. ..... Other whistles are available..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerJohn Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I got a Black 5 today and am very pleased with it. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) ....the issue of the smokebox door. Would I be best to file it down to make it smaller, or file the hole for it to make it larger or a combination of the two? Has anyone else tried to modify it yet? You wouldn't be looking to make it smaller. It's probably easier to file down the excess length behind the door and ring, instead of increasing the size of the hole in the boiler front. The diameter of the door is the same as the smokebox (or maybe a few thou bigger) so you'd lose some rivets. I think the way is to file/sand/abrade the outer 3mm or so of the inside of the over-thick smokebox door so it sits inside the smokebox...... By rubbing the back of the door over the surface of a sheet of fine sandpaper on a flat work surface, I reduced the thickness and then simply reattached. An easy way to achieve an even finish and a much improved result.I got the digi-callipers out just now, and measured the boiler barrel length, as well the thickness of the smokebox front ring. Remember that this is meant to be a standard 6'4"-long smokebox, which works out at just over 25mm overall. So, as the photos show..... -the boiler length (without smokebox front ring) on my sample came out at just over 24mm. -the thickness of the front ring came out at 1.06mm. Added together, you get 25.06+mm which is just about dead-on for a 6'4" long smokebox, so in fact you don't do any filing down at all. I think our eyes were deceived by the rivets at the front, which it transpires are in the wrong place - they should be around the front ring, and not on the main moulding. This means grafting plasticard rivets onto the ring, and removing them from the main moulding. The reason why the front ring doesn't fit properly is because A. the locating pin protruding behind doesn't quite match the position of the hole intended for it at the back of the smokebox, so remove or shorten the pin; and B. the ring itself has a tiny amount of flash at the bottom. This needs filing off and the original glue scraped out. You should find that it all now seats perfectly.... ...and in fact that whole section between the frames and under the smokebox wasn't there on the real thing, so you can quite legitimately saw it all out. I've already started shaving off the moulded handrails, and some of the other moulded detail can also be eliminated in favour of castings. The chimney on my sample looked like it had already led a very hard life (it would be just right for a heavily corroded top), so this will be lopped-off in favour of a Comet casting. The moulded buffers are definitely going. The front steps need slicing off with a very sharp scalpel and moving inboard if you're keeping them. There's quite a bit of potential in this moulding, and a lot of money will go on upgrade parts, so I'll take it very slowly and see how it all pans out.... Edited May 31, 2014 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Glad to see I'm not the only one chopping and shopping the Black Five. Here's my tender, with a few bits removed to make it fit a standard Hornby Black Five tender chassis. Any suggestions on improving the overall look - particularly the frames - already looking at getting in Archer's rivets for the tender body. Moulded handrails and lamp irons will go too. I had to remove the front portion of the tender body - the bit with the tender buffers - in order to make it fit the Hornby chassis. Under the body shell, there are two locating pins and two plastic walls across the width of the body. These had to go too. At the rear of the tender frames is a small plastic component which needs to be removed too. Otherwise it's almost a straight copy of Hornby's super detail one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Glad to see I'm not the only one chopping and shopping the Black Five. CIMG8545_1.jpg Here's my tender, with a few bits removed to make it fit a standard Hornby Black Five tender chassis. Any suggestions on improving the overall look - particularly the frames - already looking at getting in Archer's rivets for the tender body. Moulded handrails and lamp irons will go too. CIMG8543_1.jpg I had to remove the front portion of the tender body - the bit with the tender buffers - in order to make it fit the Hornby chassis. Under the body shell, there are two locating pins and two plastic walls across the width of the body. These had to go too. At the rear of the tender frames is a small plastic component which needs to be removed too. Otherwise it's almost a straight copy of Hornby's super detail one. I believe that the 'valance' of the Hornby tender underframe is a complete fiction; the tender may benefit from its removal. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I believe that the 'valance' of the Hornby tender underframe is a complete fiction; the tender may benefit from its removal..... Probably easier to mount the body on a Comet etched underframe, which is correct, rather than hopefully hacking away at plastic and ending up disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Probably easier to mount the body on a Comet etched underframe, which is correct, rather than hopefully hacking away at plastic and ending up disappointed. Possibly, but I have the tender frames already and have never been afraid of a bit of cutting. I'm curious as to where the valance is…? Not being entirely familiar with Stanier's designs to the level of the LNER locomotives I normally build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 "If you want to go to Glasgow, I wouldn't start from here". But as the basis for a reasonable/passable model (perhaps static "on shed"), then this Black Five offering is pretty good in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Other note: as I only ever try to model preserved engines, the GBL body will eventually become 45491. The real thing is currently being worked on at the GCR and, apart from 44767, is the only other surviving Black Five to have the top feed positioned on the first ring of the boiler barrel. It is paired with a welded tender, so any rivets on the back of the GBL one will need removing. ....I'm curious as to where the valance is…? .... There isn't one on a Stanier 4000 gallon tender. See hereNow compare that with the thick layer of plastic sitting under the GBL tender side...... Edited June 2, 2014 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Now sawing out the erroneous centre infill..... You need a 1mm drill, a very sharp scalpel and a jeweller's / piercing saw for this. Before....and after..... Edited May 31, 2014 by Horsetan 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) i got mine today at 20% off thanks to W.H.Smiths. (Unfortunately the voucher I got with it was for 20% off printer ink (already on offer in store), but, even with their discount, it's cheaper elsewhere.) Now to source a mech. (and a whistle) and sort out the smokebox... The tangled mess that purports to be M. Walschaerts' valve gear has to go too ... Edited May 31, 2014 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) ...Now to source a mech. (and a whistle) and sort out the smokebox... The tangled mess that purports to be M. Walschaerts' valve gear has to go too ... It's like Pringles; once you pop, you can't stop. I think I should knock out a gap behind the outside steam pipes as well...... Here's the real 45491: you should just be able to make out the seating for the top feed on the first boiler ring. Edited May 31, 2014 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD0-6-0 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Was gonna get this one but then I saw a real Hornby one at a decent price so got that instead now don't need this but am tempted anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Was gonna get this one but .... don't need this but am tempted anyway.Yeah but no but yeah but no....LOL It was never my intention to buy any GBL model, but since everyone's been raving about this Black Five I went and had a look at one, and starting seeing all sorts of possibilities. Fortunately it's one of those engines which is still relatively well-catered for in the detail parts department, so I thought I might as well see how far I could possibly take it. The cost of the upgrade parts will of course come to a lot more than the model itself but, in the total absence of Hornby spare bodies, this is probably the only way to get a plastic one and develop it. Right, I said I'd try to knock a gap between the smokebox saddle and the steam pipe casing. This needs a 2mm drill bit, and a triangular needle file: Edited May 31, 2014 by Horsetan 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 As I model "The rarely modelled era" (1965-68) in the Midlands area, quite a few black 5's are a must. I have 3 excellent Hornby railroad models, along with an original tender drive silver seal and a later loco drive detailed one. A few more were required to make the layout look right" - and these GBL ones fit the bill. I got 2 today in Asda Wigan, and I am pleased with them. One is very well finished, one has a couple of lining errors, no worry as they will be heavily weathered soon and placed in far distant little used sidings to make my layout "look the era" - as they will be viewed from a distance they will do as is after weathering. A GW 2-8-0 is already on scene, in a scrapyard (where it belongs in this era / location !!), I won't tell you what I did to Flying Scotsman except that she will no longer fly !!!. My thanks to GBL for these models. I won't be buying all of them, just a few that "fit in", the 2-6-4 tank will be on my list. Brit15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Really nice work there Ivan. Just to wrap up my work on the first of my GBL A4s (another three on the go at the minute plus a Railroad Mallard I am doing similar mods on), here is my model in not so brilliant lighting, but sitting in front of the excellent Craig Tiley print of Mallard which was free with one of the model railway mags a few months back. Hornby A4 drain cocks added, and the cab spectacle etches Peter Harvey produced for my range of etches. I will try and take some photographs in better light tomorrow. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I have carefully preserved those rivets while carving off the handrail. Should have got the callipers out first. Sort of thanks, Ivan. On the valance, there is something there, but it's very thin and only sticks out a little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Really nice work there Ivan..... So much work! So little time! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo C. Cupier Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 ASDA in Frome are out of stock of the Black Five edition, the Sainsburys branch don't have any either, though they still have two Deltics, so perhaps haven't caught up. The Deltics seemed to be a better quality finish to the two I got in ASDA last week, but I resisted the temptation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 .....On the valance, there is something there, but it's very thin and only sticks out a little. It's one of those flaws that, once you notice it, it won't go away. I'd already binned the one on my sample as I couldn't see myself spending the best part of a week trying to get rid of the faux valencing. On the real thing, what you see is not actually a valence, but a number of cross-supports for the tender body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Posed in front of a print out of Craig Tiley's excellent painting of Mallard on its record breaking run. Note the colour in particular. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 That is seriously blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 That is seriously blue. Yep: hopefully when weathered the different shade will make sense. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Incidentally, did anyone notice that the entire top third of the cab has been moulded with a pronounced tilt towards the front? Initially I thought the rivet line was off-centre, but no! Turns out the cab leans towards the front, and the back of the firebox also has a corresponding tilt. Time to get out the coarse file and do something about it..... This emphasises the whole knock-off culture surrounding these things, a bit like Louis Vuitton bags (mostly made in China) have long had a whole imitation industry (also mostly in China) attached to them. They look like the real thing, but up close you can see where the cost savings have been made. Edited June 2, 2014 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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