Bachmann Warship MAZAK cracking up!

[Mark]

I have just spent a frustrating weekend catching up on some P4 conversions of my Bachmann Warships. I have a total of 8, six of which are fine. However two had stiff bogies and on further investigation the bracket at the top of the tower that locates the bogie on one end had fractured through and the other one pretty well disintegrated as I dismantled the bogie. The other loco refused to move when tested and this turned out to be the spindles inside the gear tower being fractured  resulting in the gears being jammed. I could repair this by putting a piece of brass bar in to replace the spindles, but I am reluctant to do any work on them in case the decay continues.

 

Both the locomotives that have this problem are D804 Avenger Ref 32-053. I am suspicious that the fact I have had two failures of the same model bought at different locations suggests that it may be a problem similar to the Hornby Class 31. Both loco's have spent their entire lives sat in their boxes in a cupboard in the house and not been subjected to any adverse climatic conditions.

 

I am going to have to order a set of spare parts from Bachmann, but it will be interesting to know if others have had similar problems with the same model. These were both purchased circa 2000-2001.

 

 

Regards

 

Mark Humphrys

[Ray M]

Yep, i had the same problem with D804,

splines all snapped of on the gears.

she had to go to that model Swindon in the sky.

[Downendian]

I've got 8 warships and exactly the same thing happened with my D804 too.

Must have been a batch issue.

Neil

[Xerces Fobe2]

It's a conspiracy to make you purcahase a Class 43!  

 

XF

[brushman47544]

Good grief. Compare the restrained comments here about a Bachmann model with self destruction issues with those on the similar Hornby Class 31 thread which tend to be far more inflamatory...

[Fat Controller]

Good grief. Compare the restrained comments here about a Bachmann model with self destruction issues with those on the similar Hornby Class 31 thread which tend to be far more inflamatory...

Give it time- it's only six posts so far.. I'm more concerned about where else such contaminated Mazak might be found, perhaps in castings for the automotive or aviation industries.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Tends to be trim and auxiliary items that are made in mazak for 'serious' applications. Typically the faiure is inconvenience rather than disaster, a cracked switch bezel or equipment frame for example, which can be replaced when serviced. My FiL's Naval Dirk (WWII issue) has a cast mazak grip - totally split top to bottom with classic zinc pest / mazak rot - so even the Admiralty contracter could mess up; but it would still work for its intended purpose. (Opening packaging, especially cans of sausages, bully beef, and baked beans according to the original owner.)

 

I'd put money on a fair number of instances of mazak rot deriving directly from the use of lead alloy seals on the bags, cans, or crates in which casting metals have typically been supplied over the decades. Only too easy for someone who doen't know to lob that extra piece of grey metal into the melt pot, thus contaminating everything poured from that charge. One of my first personal contributions to quality assurance relating to a  very different group of metals, was removing all such seals from newly delivered consignments before any of the production crew got their hands on it. And 'just like that' a long term problem of trace contaminant performance degradation disappeared from the finished product.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Good grief. Compare the restrained comments here about a Bachmann model with self destruction issues with those on the similar Hornby Class 31 thread which tend to be far more inflamatory...

 

You might get shot out of the water with this one!  

 

XF

[Mark]

Replacement parts ordered this evening £42 for four towers including gears.

 

Bachmann response below:

 

"Thank you for your enquiry.I'm sorry to hear of the problem, it's a result of material ageing.

We can supply 2 sets of bogie tower inners with gears for £10 each plus £2 postage."

 

Hopefully this will solve the problem and I will end up with some spare gears!

 

I need to make a more thorough check of Onslaught, Monarch, Foxhound and Eclipse just to be sure! However two of these need work on to raise the ride height anyway.

 

If not I might be forced to make a new fully sprung chassis!

 

Regards

 

Mark Humphrys

 

 

 

I have just spent a frustrating weekend catching up on some P4 conversions of my Bachmann Warships. I have a total of 8, six of which are fine. However two had stiff bogies and on further investigation the bracket at the top of the tower that locates the bogie on one end had fractured through and the other one pretty well disintegrated as I dismantled the bogie. The other loco refused to move when tested and this turned out to be the spindles inside the gear tower being fractured  resulting in the gears being jammed. I could repair this by putting a piece of brass bar in to replace the spindles, but I am reluctant to do any work on them in case the decay continues.

 

Both the locomotives that have this problem are D804 Avenger Ref 32-053. I am suspicious that the fact I have had two failures of the same model bought at different locations suggests that it may be a problem similar to the Hornby Class 31. Both loco's have spent their entire lives sat in their boxes in a cupboard in the house and not been subjected to any adverse climatic conditions.

 

I am going to have to order a set of spare parts from Bachmann, but it will be interesting to know if others have had similar problems with the same model. These were both purchased circa 2000-2001.

 

 

Regards

 

Mark Humphrys

[BlackRat]

Interesting reply from Bachmann, so we can't expect our models to last then can we?

 

Out of interest, how old is the model, from what you say, perhaps 11 or 12 years?

 

So how long do we expect our models to last then?

[leopardml2341]

Interesting reply from Bachmann, so we can't expect our models to last then can we?

 

Out of interest, how old is the model, from what you say, perhaps 11 or 12 years?

 

So how long do we expect our models to last then?

 

I had a similar problem with an SR 'N' class bought about the same time as the OP's Warships.

 

As for longevity, Bachmann could learn from Meccano Binns Road ?

[bigherb]

Well we know who's got the better customer service then. I had this problem with the N class after pointing out that I had 30 year old Triang locos running about in one piece they eventually sent me a new footplate which I had to fit myself.

[leopardml2341]

Well we know who's got the better customer service then. I had this problem with the N class after pointing out that I had 30 year old Triang locos running about in one piece they eventually sent me a new footplate which I had to fit myself.

 

SImilar to me, they sent me a new one - fitting it was a pig !

[BlackRat]

I asked as I to had the dreaded N Class syndrome, and had to wait a few years before getting a replacement which luckily I was able to fit myself.

 

Is 10 years or so acceptable? Possibly but there again........

[Mark]

Perhaps there should be a "Best before date" on the box!

 

Regards

 

Mark Humphrys

I asked as I to had the dreaded N Class syndrome, and had to wait a few years before getting a replacement which luckily I was able to fit myself.

Is 10 years or so acceptable? Possibly but there again........

[bigherb]

 

 

Is 10 years or so acceptable? Possibly but there again........

That's arguable. But the point is Hornby have held their hands up and are repairing models made in 2005 FOC (which is still not good enough for some people) and Bachmann so far don't want to know.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Oldest Kader production that I have is the J72 for Mainline, knocking 40 years old now and no trouble with the mazak. An early class 45 must be nearly 20 years old: now there's a good chunk of mazak, and it has been in a baking loft, outdoors in all weathers, and in an unheated outbuilding through that time, again no trouble. Same for the split chassis steamers of roughly the same age, hasn't been any mazak problem that has terminated them.

 

This is a production batch specific problem. If you are unfortunate enough to have bought a model from a batch made from an accidentally contaminated melt, then there will be a problem in time. Every manufacturer who has a long term production record has the problem lurking somewhere in their range ISTM.

[dibber25]

Oldest Kader production that I have is the J72 for Mainline, knocking 40 years old now and no trouble with the mazak. An early class 45 must be nearly 20 years old: now there's a good chunk of mazak, and it has been in a baking loft, outdoors in all weathers, and in an unheated outbuilding through that time, again no trouble. Same for the split chassis steamers of roughly the same age, hasn't been any mazak problem that has terminated them.

 

This is a production batch specific problem. If you are unfortunate enough to have bought a model from a batch made from an accidentally contaminated melt, then there will be a problem in time. Every manufacturer who has a long term production record has the problem lurking somewhere in their range ISTM.

I think you are lucky with your Mainline J72. Many early ones had wheels that disintegrated after about 10 years.

[TheSignalEngineer]

As for longevity, Bachmann could learn from Meccano Binns Road ?

I only had a problem with one Dublo item out of a couple of hundred, but I seem to remember there were problems with some early Dinky cars.

 

My Peco conflat ended up banana shaped but the worst was a Trix Western where the frame disintegrated.  At least I got a good price for all of the bits on a well known auction site

[Fairburn]

I think you are lucky with your Mainline J72. Many early ones had wheels that disintegrated after about 10 years.

That said, it's up on blocks and providing carriage heating!

[Horsetan]

.... I'm more concerned about where else such contaminated Mazak might be found, perhaps in castings for the automotive or aviation industries.

 

Slightly OT, but the current London black taxi had a steering box fault which people may have read about last year. The box was manufactured by a Chinese supplier company (along with quite a few other parts in the taxi). The supplier company had been "introduced" to taxi maker Manganese Bronze by Chinese car maker Geely (a shareholder in MB). There was a recall and MB basically couldn't afford to pay for the repairs, so went into administration. The net result is that Geely was able to buy MB outright for £11m. I couldn't help thinking at the time that this might be a very back-door way of taking over a company cheaply.

 

A formal takeover, the traditional way, may well have cost Geely rather more.

 

I asked as I to had the dreaded N Class syndrome, and had to wait a few years before getting a replacement which luckily I was able to fit myself.

 

Is 10 years or so acceptable? Possibly but there again........

 

I gave up when my "N" footplate disintegrated into tiny shattered pieces, so I asked RT Models if they could design a fully-etched replacement, and I understand that they are working on it. It may include an option to build it with the later curved front frame tops that were a feature of engines that had been given new frames or new front ends in BR days.

[Jenny Emily]

I'd put money on a fair number of instances of mazak rot deriving directly from the use of lead alloy seals on the bags, cans, or crates in which casting metals have typically been supplied over the decades. Only too easy for someone who doen't know to lob that extra piece of grey metal into the melt pot, thus contaminating everything poured from that charge.

I remember reading somewhere that Meccano found that this was exactly what was causing the problem with a lot of their pre-war models. The difference in batches of the mazak could be quite noticable - I picked up some pre-war Dublo wagons where the chassis is perfectly fine still, but the mazak wheels on the axles had crumbled to dust. On one Southern brake van, three of the four wheels crumbled to dust and the fourth was absolutely fine.

[Horsetan]

I just think that mazak isn't really a good idea for detailed things like footplates, particularly with the ever-attendant risk of contaminants during manufacturing. It may be OK for nondescript items like ballast weights and underframes (and even then they're not always stable), but I'm not sure that Bachmann's reliance on it as a standard part of steam outline models is the right one.

 

(Let's come back to this at the five, ten, fifteen and twenty year stages and try to work out what the failure rate was, if any........)

[rob D2]

if an aircrafts made of mazak, I don't think it'll take off too well....

[Captain Kernow]

Having read this, I'm coming to the view that - taking wear and tear through use aside - a loco ought really to last several decades, maybe you could say 'for the lifetime of the purchaser'. If you use 'em, however, then wear and tear will take their toll, and that's fair enough.

 

It's certainly not acceptable for components to deteriorate when the model is still sat in the box it was bought in, and kept in suitable conditions inside the house. After a mere 10 years - if the product is still in virtually 'as new' condition, that's even worse.

 

I'm not sure what the 'statute of limitations' is on the Sale of Goods Act, but in my view this sounds like items that were 'not of merchantable quality'. Provided my 'N' Class Mogul, for example, was still unused, and in mint, boxed condition (as mine is, after several years, I still haven't got round to weathering it and using it), I would expect a complete replacement loco, certainly no messing about with components you have to fit yourself.