trisonic Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Sometimes being boxed can make a problem worse - no adequate ventilation of "fumes". I wonder whether it is the case in these instances? I know it is a fact with some 40's and 50's Gibson guitars where the material of the pick guard "out gases" for decades potentially affecting the finish (nitro cellulose) and the metal parts. Just a thought... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Pete, are you talking about the box they were supplied in or a carrying case (or are they the same thing?)? I would expect a model loco to be supplied in appropriate packaging. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I would expect a model loco to be supplied in appropriate packaging. Dream on A lot of models, including special editions in polished wooden boxes are packaged in a type of foam rubber - which after a few years will start going brittle and disintegrating. My box of Thorntons drawing instruments from the 1970s were expensively packaged in grey foam which after thirty years or so disintegrated. I replaced it with an offcut of carpet (real wool). Ashes to ashes - dust to dust? Perhaps we should just get on and play with them! Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark alden Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My 804 is also the same.... its now a display item only. I wonder if Bachmann would admit a problem and offer free repair or parts?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Sometimes being boxed can make a problem worse - no adequate ventilation of "fumes". I wonder whether it is the case in these instances? ... Not with mazak. It's to do with crystalline structure changes within the solid due to contaminant present at manufacture. Low temperatures increase the failure rate, which is a little counter intuitive for most folks. But many metalloids have crystalline structure which changes from one form to another at temperatures in the habitable range. If the change in structure causes a change in volume which exceeds what the ductility of the material can accomodate, cracking must occur. Regarding fumes, I like my models out in the open air, and not in polymer packaging which will both outgas, and trap any outgassing by plastic in the model. Spongy foams with 'foam rot' are notorious, can do a lot of damage to film photographic and hi-fi gear. Sometimes it goes to a dry powder, which is a nuisance but not too much trouble to deal with. Sometimes it goes to a wet tacky mess which bonds to or even has components migrate into other polymers and paints degrading these too. (Seen CD's with all the lacquer and aluminium ruined by foam interleaves for example.) I have seen foams exhibit both failure modes in the same item, with foam pieces that looked for all the world to be of the same origin. Since I knew the quondam ICI plastics division chief analyst I asked his opinion on the why and wherefore: the answer was basically that without knowing the manufacturing starting conditions and all significant environmental factors since, this was unknowable. He too was a victim of polymer degradation, with his Phillips V2000 videotape equipment... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Thanks for going into detail 34tlbBD! Good advise is to never keep things in original boxes for any length of time. My guitars only go into their cases when travelling.... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Both D804's are now fully operational and P4'd, so hopefully that problem is in the past. Perhaps we should keep a tally of all those who have a D804 and find those that have succumbed over the years. The more people who raise a concern, the more chance of getting the problem looked into. Regards Mark Humphrys My 804 is also the same.... its now a display item only. I wonder if Bachmann would admit a problem and offer free repair or parts?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2013 ........................... Sometimes it goes to a wet tacky mess which bonds to or even has components migrate into other polymers and paints degrading these too. (Seen CD's with all the lacquer and aluminium ruined by foam interleaves for example.) I have seen foams exhibit both failure modes in the same item, with foam pieces that looked for all the world to be of the same origin. Since I knew the quondam ICI plastics division chief analyst I asked his opinion on the why and wherefore: the answer was basically that without knowing the manufacturing starting conditions and all significant environmental factors since, this was unknowable. He too was a victim of polymer degradation, with his Phillips V2000 videotape equipment... Polymer migration was a significant problem some years ago with electrical wiring. In some it occured even between the conductor insulation and cable sheath. Wiring in signalling installations showed dry degradation, where the insulation went brittle or wet degradation, where the insulation turned to goo. Particular problems occured between Polychloroprene and PVC cables so these had to be kept apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 It's been said already but I really can't hep contrasting the 'c'est la vie' attitude here with the fulmination on the Hornby thread re the class 31. If a mazak batch has been contaminated then it will fail, storage and use notwithstanding. Given that the issue has been understood for 70+ years I would hope that where there is clear evidence of batch contamination, a manufacturer would endeavour to offer a warranty solution to the problem. Given that a fair few of the batch will have fallen by the wayside due to use etc, surely anyone who has a problem and brings it to Bachmann's attention and send the defective components in might at least expect to be supplied the required spares FOC - you can't make mazak contamination happen by misuse!. Hornby actually replaced my defective 31 some years back when the problem manifested itself so I am still very well inclined to their approach.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted April 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2013 Mazak is well known for this, also known as "zinc rot" by many hobbyists. A few years ago I was villified on a model aircraft board when offering an opinion that a vocal lobby arguing plastic was evil and diecast good and that diecast was more durable should consider the dangers of zinc rot and that it is highly debatable as to whether metal models are really any more durable than using plastic. Certainly I've lost enough models to this problem that I consider it an occupational hazard of modelling, sad though that is. And yes, how a company handles the issue counts for a lot, those companies that stand behind their product and look after their customers deserve respect and gratitude rather than hiding behind limited warranties and such like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 EFE had this problem with some articulated trailers a few years back. They made a replacement batch issued to anyone who contacted them about a failure. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 The picture above shows how one has no spigots and one has, neither barely run. Both out of the same model, robbed out of a warship for a sparkie project. It has been kept aired in a neutral temperature. I am warey now of what I may find. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 My 804 is also the same.... its now a display item only. I wonder if Bachmann would admit a problem and offer free repair or parts?? Don't hold your breath - my single experience of Bachmann's customer' care' convinced me that they don't. No connection other than as a dissatisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 26, 2013 Mazak is notorious for rotting, but it seems strange that some will rot and other samples not at all. I had some Mainline models (split chassis) and a Hornby 2721 0-6-0 PT purchased at the same time (40 years ago?) but never used. They were kept together and all had inner packaging of expanded polystyrene. When I opened the boxes about 5 years or so ago the Mainline chasses were all to some extent rotting, one, a 57XX pannier was crystalized and literally crumbling apart. However the Hornby chassis is still as good as new! Presumably there must be some variations in the constituents of the Mazak to cause such a variation. But what? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Mazak is notorious for rotting, but it seems strange that some will rot and other samples not at all. I had some Mainline models (split chassis) and a Hornby 2721 0-6-0 PT purchased at the same time (40 years ago?) but never used. They were kept together and all had inner packaging of expanded polystyrene. When I opened the boxes about 5 years or so ago the Mainline chasses were all to some extent rotting, one, a 57XX pannier was crystalized and literally crumbling apart. However the Hornby chassis is still as good as new! Presumably there must be some variations in the constituents of the Mazak to cause such a variation. But what? Keith This has been previously discussed, I believe. The problem is supposedly due to lead contamination within the Mazak; a long-known problem, which can be managed with stringent quality control at the time of the manufacture of the alloy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted May 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 26, 2013 Mazak rot is one of those problems that should not really be happening in today's world but does, interestingly it is one of those things that bites all manufacturers from time to time but some more than others. I collect diecast model aircraft and one particular manufacturer has a reputation of attacking all of his competitors and responds to any criticism in a most aggressive manner, when he was hit badly by mazak rot it was almost a kind of poetic justice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Had a couple of models do this to me a Hornby class 31 which they replaced both chassis and body which cracked and a 1/2 a Bachmann intermodal container flat which I had purchased when the first came out. I've had no other problems as of yet but I am certainly keeping an eye on my models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 My D804 hasn't cracked up but when I checked it today I found the chassis had gone banana shaped. It was due out of its box soon, where it has been for a couple of years, but will now simply be retired. A quick check of other Warships that were to hand showed the others to be fine, including D817 and D832 from the first batch Bachmann made. D832 has been round the layout today and still runs perfectly. As the body is wrong for D804 anyway, I ordered a D827 Kelly to replace it. Same livery style but with a body that is correct for the number carried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted July 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2013 We lost a D804 this way Have spare chassis - drop me a PM if anyone needs to replace theirs in D804 Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I had a D804 model but sold it on some years ago so cannot tell whether it would have survived this long. That particular models joins a select list of 'modern' RTR items batch-made mostly in China where I think it must be considered that the entire production run of that specific version is on borrowed time. Members of the list include the first 3 Hornby 31s, certain early Heljan 47s, one of the Bachmann N class releases, and this model..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 .....one of the Bachmann N class releases.... Not just one batch. 31813 and 31860 were known to be affected. The footplate just shattered into tiny pieces. I was quite surprised to see one of these victims still managed to fetch over thirty quid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Don't worry "that will buff out" like the bit good runner, I have a few of the N classes , Hope mine don't go like that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Maybe Bachmann should put a use by date on their locos? The Bachmann Tower Locodrive - Greatest Bits. - You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet!! - coming to a railway room near you! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Yep, I too had an 'N' do this as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Ive had few Hornby class 31s which have fell apart due to poor mazak chassies,class 50 and now Db class 60.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.